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 132015-11-27T01:51:30  <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yea, i havent had a chance to look into it
 142015-11-27T01:57:08  <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: hmm, yea, if thats still possible docs should be fixed to block internet access, not allow it
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 462015-11-27T07:35:50  <dcousens> phantomcircuit: why would it not be suitable for latency? (not trying to be ignorant)
 472015-11-27T07:36:05  <dcousens> for low latency*
 482015-11-27T07:38:26  <phantomcircuit> dcousens, because of the exact mechanism ckpool uses
 492015-11-27T07:38:34  <phantomcircuit> if blocknotify fails their latency is 30 seconds
 502015-11-27T07:38:39  <phantomcircuit> idiots
 512015-11-27T07:39:21  <phantomcircuit> i refuse to give them anymore free advise though
 522015-11-27T07:39:48  <gmaxwell> 04:27 < wumpus> doesn't rust already have libraries for json parsing/generation? or was that mostly an educational exercise?
 532015-11-27T07:40:49  <gmaxwell> Needed it for the same reason we need univalue instead of jansson or the like... all other json libraries insist on interperting the values for you.
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 552015-11-27T07:46:01  <Luke-Jr> well, to be fair, interpreting the values is literally the only thing JSON parsers do.. :p
 562015-11-27T07:51:28  <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, no they also distinguish between value and object
 572015-11-27T07:51:39  <phantomcircuit> although i guess technically that's also "just" a type
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 592015-11-27T07:56:56  <Luke-Jr> if Rust's JSON lib supported accessing JSON Numbers as the Ratio type, I think that'd be fine
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 632015-11-27T08:02:47  <wumpus> Luke-Jr: no, parsing is something else than interpreting :)
 642015-11-27T08:03:08  <Luke-Jr> not in that context
 652015-11-27T08:04:27  <wumpus> anyhow I guess the reason we need this all is the mistake to use JSON for "very large, precise values", apparently this undermines why you'd use JSON in the first place: readily available libraries
 662015-11-27T08:05:54  <wumpus> it's a smaller example of why xml is a complex failure, yes in theory it's nice to have an interchange format, but in practice there's always something that makes your use-case slightly different from the general rules, and it may as well break all interoperability :)
 672015-11-27T08:05:56  <Luke-Jr> I think everything would mostly just work if we used integer satoshis
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 692015-11-27T08:07:11  <wumpus> in the end could just as well have used our own, hand-rolled binary packet format, every language needs a special library to interface to bitcoin anyway ...
 702015-11-27T08:07:52  <wumpus> Luke-Jr: it may have helped a bit, though some JSON parsers can and do represent integer-looking numbers as doubles as well
 712015-11-27T08:08:08  <Luke-Jr> wumpus: doubles can be sufficiently precise in this cae
 722015-11-27T08:08:09  <Luke-Jr> case
 732015-11-27T08:08:44  <wumpus> in theory, yes, but in practice some platforms's FPUs aren't very nice and precise and introduce subtle rounding errors
 742015-11-27T08:09:58  <wumpus> that's the whole problem, at least integer arithmetic is well defined (except for overflow behavior, but we don't get near there for 64 bit)
 752015-11-27T08:21:23  <wumpus> Looking for ACKs for #7103 (fix settxfee, paytxfee), this one is quite urgent imo
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 892015-11-27T08:35:54  <dcousens> wumpus: is there a commonly 'recommended' way to alert/notify node operators if bitcoind has crashed?  Its obviously platform dependent and best left up to the operator as to how, but, I think a good 'recommendation' could help people recognize when their node has died if their new to it all etc
 902015-11-27T08:36:08  <dcousens> Might be something to include in the docs
 912015-11-27T08:36:10  <dcousens> Just a thought
 922015-11-27T08:36:31  <wumpus> I'd say that's in the domain of external process-mointoring solutions
 932015-11-27T08:36:38  <dcousens> wumpus: absolutely
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 952015-11-27T08:36:47  <dcousens> But, that can't hurt a 'recommendation'?
 962015-11-27T08:36:49  <dcousens> Even a link/reference
 972015-11-27T08:36:53  <wumpus> I guess it's be possible to call -alertnotify in the case of a node shutdown
 982015-11-27T08:37:04  <wumpus> (at least an unexpected one...)
 992015-11-27T08:37:14  <dcousens> wumpus: probably not an assert though?
1002015-11-27T08:37:22  *** luke-jr__ is now known as Luke-Jr
1012015-11-27T08:37:22  <dcousens> or segfault
1022015-11-27T08:37:25  <wumpus> but in e.g. a pointer crash that's very difficult
1032015-11-27T08:37:31  <wumpus> right
1042015-11-27T08:37:48  <wumpus> I'm sure crash handling can be improved in general
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1062015-11-27T08:38:04  <wumpus> (but it's only one in 23209843 issues that still have to be handled, I can't give it any special priority)
1072015-11-27T08:38:04  <Luke-Jr> well, if we cache the command in a C global..
1082015-11-27T08:38:30  <Luke-Jr> SIGSEGV could be handled by simply calling exec() :p
1092015-11-27T08:38:40  <dcousens> If we don't have an external process-monitoring solution to recommend, then, IMHO, we should provide an option such as `-shutdownnotify` which catches some errors
1102015-11-27T08:38:45  <wumpus> the problem is that if something smashed the stack or the heap or etc, trying to do anything may fail or even be an security isue
1112015-11-27T08:38:54  <wumpus> it's non-trivial to do
1122015-11-27T08:39:18  <dcousens> wumpus: in which case, IMHO, lets just recommend a basic bash script maybe?
1132015-11-27T08:39:19  <wumpus> heck, just run bitcoind in a loop in a script and have it send a mail when it quits
1142015-11-27T08:39:22  <Luke-Jr> wumpus: even calling exec() with global params?
1152015-11-27T08:39:26  <dcousens> wumpus: thats simple to you or I
1162015-11-27T08:39:31  <wumpus> this is basic sysadmin 101
1172015-11-27T08:39:53  <dcousens> wumpus: also, running it in a loop isn't a good idea in terms of disk space
1182015-11-27T08:39:58  <dcousens> could actually be very destructive
1192015-11-27T08:40:07  <wumpus> right, then don't run it in a loop
1202015-11-27T08:40:17  <dcousens> wumpus: suddenly, software specific edgecases
1212015-11-27T08:40:34  <dcousens> (hence, a vetted recommendation is IMHO a good idea)
1222015-11-27T08:40:41  <wumpus> see, my ideas about this even suck, let's leave it up to devops professionals instead of trying to handle it crappily in the software
1232015-11-27T08:41:10  <dcousens> wumpus: what about in the docs though?
1242015-11-27T08:41:23  <wumpus> you can mention it in the docs, of course
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1282015-11-27T08:41:36  <dcousens> (what I was referring to, agreed on not handling in software)
1292015-11-27T08:42:00  <wumpus> could add a mention about to https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node
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1312015-11-27T08:42:24  <dcousens> absolutely
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1332015-11-27T08:42:47  <wumpus> Luke-Jr: globals can be clobbered too, unelss they're in .rodata but that doesn't leave you with much options :)
1342015-11-27T08:42:58  <phantomcircuit> dcousens, while true;do bitcoind -daemon;sleep 1;done
1352015-11-27T08:43:07  <phantomcircuit> then parse log file..
1362015-11-27T08:43:08  <wumpus> phantomcircuit: I'd leave out the daemon :p
1372015-11-27T08:43:10  <dcousens> phantomcircuit: as above, thats dangeorus
1382015-11-27T08:43:15  <Luke-Jr> freenode apparently takes that "just run it in a loop" seriously.
1392015-11-27T08:43:23  <wumpus> otherwise you're creating a bitcoin fork bomb
1402015-11-27T08:43:58  <phantomcircuit> wumpus, huh? no you're not
1412015-11-27T08:44:00  <wumpus> (and a mail bomb, if it sends a mail every iteration)
1422015-11-27T08:44:15  <phantomcircuit> well yes dont send an email
1432015-11-27T08:44:30  <wumpus> phantomcircuit: the point is: -daemon exits immediately
1442015-11-27T08:44:33  <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: it won't bomb, but it'd be pretty silly
1452015-11-27T08:44:45  <wumpus> ok, the sleep 1 protects you
1462015-11-27T08:45:02  <phantomcircuit> fine fine
1472015-11-27T08:45:43  <phantomcircuit> while true;do bitcoind -server=1;done
1482015-11-27T08:47:10  <dcousens> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/7111
1492015-11-27T08:47:12  <dcousens> :P
1502015-11-27T08:47:30  <wumpus> why not file that as an issue on bitcon.org instead?
1512015-11-27T08:47:30  <dcousens> Maybe the title sucks
1522015-11-27T08:47:40  <dcousens> wumpus: well, IMHO, its relevant to this software
1532015-11-27T08:48:06  <wumpus> and running in a loop was apparantly a dumb idea, please don't keep propagating it
1542015-11-27T08:48:21  <dcousens> ok, will remove that
1552015-11-27T08:48:56  <wumpus> (I also realized that's stupid in case of e.g. buffer overflows, you're giving your adversary infinite tries to get it right)
1562015-11-27T08:49:30  <phantomcircuit> wumpus, depends on what your uptime requirement is
1572015-11-27T08:49:46  <wumpus> phantomcircuit: that's better handled with redundancy
1582015-11-27T08:50:22  <dcousens> IMHO, all good things to recommend in that thread :P
1592015-11-27T08:50:24  <phantomcircuit> wumpus, agreed but it's expensive to operate a super high performance bitcoind node
1602015-11-27T08:50:32  <wumpus> expensive? for whom?
1612015-11-27T08:50:44  <wumpus> anyhow, of topic
1622015-11-27T08:56:25  <wumpus> dcousens: there's e.g. systems like https://mmonit.com/monit/ that can do the monitoring properly, send mail on crash, etc
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1642015-11-27T08:57:06  <dcousens> dcousens: to be clear, I'm totally aware, I already have something in place
1652015-11-27T08:57:20  <dcousens> This was for others
1662015-11-27T08:57:41  <wumpus> well I suppose you're writing a guide, so tips are useful right?
1672015-11-27T08:57:59  <dcousens> wumpus: sure
1682015-11-27T08:58:03  * wumpus moves on to something else
1692015-11-27T08:58:05  <dcousens> wumpus: thanks :)
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1732015-11-27T09:01:48  <dcousens> wumpus: thats actually quite a nicer program
1742015-11-27T09:02:13  <wumpus> it's probably better than "roll your own" suggestions, especially from me
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1882015-11-27T09:03:37  <Luke-Jr> I like monit, if for no reason other than its GPLv3 being useful against Google <.<
1892015-11-27T09:09:09  <wumpus> adding documentation to run and monitor bitcoind with e.g. monit would probably be useful
1902015-11-27T09:10:27  <wumpus> any pulls that seem ready for merging and that I've overlooked?
1912015-11-27T09:10:43  <dcousens> wumpus: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7058 ?
1922015-11-27T09:11:07  <wumpus> been quite busy lately and volume went from <80 to over 100 again
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2062015-11-27T09:13:33  <GitHub74> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f8a8e27a6a19...9a3e1a59dfed
2072015-11-27T09:13:34  <GitHub74> bitcoin/master cdcd816 Daniel Cousens: init: amend ZMQ flag names
2082015-11-27T09:13:34  <GitHub74> bitcoin/master 14075b1 Daniel Cousens: init: add zmq to debug categories
2092015-11-27T09:13:35  <GitHub74> bitcoin/master ffacd27 Daniel Cousens: zmq: prepend zmq to debug messages
2102015-11-27T09:13:39  <GitHub174> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7058: Fix ZMQ docs - Improve logging (master...zmqdoc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7058
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2122015-11-27T09:15:24  <dcousens> ta :)
2132015-11-27T09:16:39  <dcousens> wumpus: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-and-configure-monit probably just that but tailored for bitcoind
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2152015-11-27T09:17:15  <dcousens> and maybe a notification example
2162015-11-27T09:17:26  <wumpus> yeah good idea
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2182015-11-27T09:19:06  <dcousens> wumpus: going to play with this myself over the weekend, will post what I end up with
2192015-11-27T09:19:14  <dcousens> I personally use mailgun to fire off logging emails
2202015-11-27T09:19:22  <dcousens> wumpus: any other recommendations?
2212015-11-27T09:20:55  <dcousens> obviously want to be a bit careful about that
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2232015-11-27T09:22:52  <dcousens> interestingly easy to search :P, https://github.com/hardware/monit-conf.d/blob/master/bitcoind.conf
2242015-11-27T09:22:55  <wumpus> maybe what could help is ask around for people that run bitcoind in production on what they're doing - none of my nodes has any uptime requirement and I run them in gdb :)
2252015-11-27T09:23:20  <wumpus> hah, already done
2262015-11-27T09:23:59  <dcousens> wumpus: haha yeah, also found a mailgun config example :P
2272015-11-27T09:24:24  <dcousens> I think that combined with maybe some filesystem alerts etc
2282015-11-27T09:24:29  <dcousens> Should be the most useful for people
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2302015-11-27T09:24:52  <dcousens> (and memory)
2312015-11-27T09:25:04  <Luke-Jr> lol
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3572015-11-27T12:26:27  <GitHub75> [bitcoin] sipa opened pull request #7113: Switch to a more efficient rolling Bloom filter (master...betterrolling) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7113
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3762015-11-27T13:08:58  <GitHub162> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2a94cd67e805...9502b7f634a7
3772015-11-27T13:08:59  <GitHub162> bitcoin/master faf12bc MarcoFalke: OpenSSL 1.1.0: Fix text variant of the version number
3782015-11-27T13:09:08  <GitHub162> bitcoin/master 9502b7f Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7083...
3792015-11-27T13:09:08  <GitHub136> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7083: [init] Print OpenSSL version fix (master...MarcoFalke-2015-initOpenSSL) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7083
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3852015-11-27T13:17:13  <GitHub192> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9502b7f634a7...d8368a07baf2
3862015-11-27T13:17:13  <GitHub192> bitcoin/master 4ec3561 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Replace scriptnum_test's normative ScriptNum implementation...
3872015-11-27T13:17:14  <GitHub192> bitcoin/master d8368a0 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7095...
3882015-11-27T13:17:18  <GitHub140> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7095: Replace scriptnum_test's normative ScriptNum implementation (master...2015_11_remove_openssl_consensus_checks) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7095
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3942015-11-27T13:23:55  <wumpus> woohoo number of open pulls is under 100 again
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4152015-11-27T14:03:31  <GitHub46> [bitcoin] jtimon opened pull request #7115: Mempool: Decouple CBlockPolicyEstimator from CTxMemPool (fix #6134) (master...6134-nits) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7115
4162015-11-27T14:05:48  *** [1]evoskuil has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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4212015-11-27T14:08:11  <GitHub43> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d8368a07baf2...d6454f6cb23e
4222015-11-27T14:08:11  <GitHub43> bitcoin/master cde857f Peter Todd: Connect to Tor hidden services by default...
4232015-11-27T14:08:18  <GitHub43> bitcoin/master d6454f6 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7090...
4242015-11-27T14:10:06  *** [1]evoskuil has quit IRC
4252015-11-27T14:13:14  <GitHub29> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7114: util: Don't set strMiscWarning on every exception (master...2015_11_exception_nomiscwarning) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7114
4262015-11-27T14:13:22  <GitHub1> [bitcoin] jtimon opened pull request #7116: Trivial: Fix warning introduced by #7053 by casting to uint64_t (master...fix-7053) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7116
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4292015-11-27T14:25:01  <GitHub60> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f3d0fdd3924f...93e0514fd083
4302015-11-27T14:25:01  <GitHub60> bitcoin/master c434940 daniel: uint256::GetCheapHash bigendian compatibility
4312015-11-27T14:25:17  <GitHub60> bitcoin/master 93e0514 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge pull request #7078...
4322015-11-27T14:25:17  <GitHub112> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7078: uint256::GetCheapHash bigendian compatibility (master...ppc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7078
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4402015-11-27T14:34:31  <phantomcircuit> wumpus, ha was trying to figure out why petertodd/replace-by-fee-pullreq didn't cleanly merge
4412015-11-27T14:34:47  <phantomcircuit> because it's already merged
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4612015-11-27T15:46:44  <GitHub85> [bitcoin] paveljanik opened pull request #7117: Print correct minimum mempool size in MB (master...patch-14) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7117
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4642015-11-27T15:47:40  <phantomcircuit> ^ that one made me laugh
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4662015-11-27T15:59:49  <GitHub146> [bitcoin] paveljanik opened pull request #7118: Describe maxmempool and mempoolminfee in the getmempoolinfo RPC help. (master...20151127_getmempoolinfo_fixes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7118
4672015-11-27T16:00:08  <GitHub131> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7117: Print correct minimum mempool size in MB (master...patch-14) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7117
4682015-11-27T16:01:55  <sipa_> patch-14, merged in 14 minutes. coincidence? i think not!
4692015-11-27T16:01:59  *** sipa_ is now known as sipa
4702015-11-27T16:02:07  <paveljanik> 8)
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4732015-11-27T16:13:05  <instagibbs> Should deprecation warnings be put in debug.log like everything else?
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4942015-11-27T17:32:35  <jtimon> sipa: should I reopen #6445 now?
4952015-11-27T17:33:11  <jtimon> (or an equivalent replacement but a new PR)
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4982015-11-27T17:40:07  <jtimon> sipa: so how will I know when "it is time" for #6445 ?
4992015-11-27T17:41:37  <sipa> jtimon: that one is part of the move consensus logic to consensus package? i thought you were going to write up a design of what the plan was first
5002015-11-27T17:41:44  <jtimon> sipa: the mempool is limited in size and we have rbf, I'm not sure what other "mempool work" I'm waiting not to interfere with
5012015-11-27T17:44:25  <jtimon> sipa: that's an optimization, not strictly required for libconsensus but I obviously haven't done it in a way that would hurt my plans
5022015-11-27T17:44:29  <jtimon> if that's closed, is for "not interfering with mempool work" just like 6068 and other things
5032015-11-27T17:44:32  <sipa> wrt policy encapsulation, my view is that we should only factor things out once they're stable and clearly safe to be configurable
5042015-11-27T17:44:35  <sipa> there is no bounds to what policy is
5052015-11-27T17:44:37  <jtimon> you mean never?
5062015-11-27T17:44:37  <sipa> you can't look at a codebase and say "yes, the policy here is encapsulated!"
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5082015-11-27T17:44:46  <sipa> ultimately, policy is all of a node's operations that are not consensus and wallet related
5092015-11-27T17:45:20  <jtimon> well, I can look at a codebase and say, "no, the policy here is NOT encapsulated"
5102015-11-27T17:45:20  <sipa> we're not going to move all of that into a separate package
5112015-11-27T17:45:21  <sipa> imho the policy package should just be a few safe and clear things that are configurable
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5132015-11-27T17:46:13  <jtimon> I'm happy taking slowly it out of mempool, consensus code and main to the same directory
5142015-11-27T17:46:13  <sipa> but if there's no clear boundary it's just confusing... you can't guess what belongs where
5152015-11-27T17:46:13  <sipa> that's my point, there is no "it"
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5172015-11-27T17:46:25  <jtimon> well, there' many things are very obvious to me
5182015-11-27T17:46:25  <sipa> policy is whatever you make configurable
5192015-11-27T17:46:45  <jtimon> so, never, then?
5202015-11-27T17:46:59  <sipa> i haven't said that
5212015-11-27T17:47:42  <sipa> but i do consider it not a priority, and hard to do now
5222015-11-27T17:47:42  <gmaxwell> And that confusion makes code unreviewable... when constantly you can't tell what things do because you have to chase n levels of redirection to find them. If they're configurable, then the answer at review is "anything" and you can review with respect to that.
5232015-11-27T17:47:55  <jtimon> I don't think it's hard to start now, not at all, but if I'm waiting for something, I would like to undesrtand better what I'm waiting for
5242015-11-27T17:48:55  <sipa> jtimon: wait for having the code that interacts with mempool/relay to be stable, wait a release, and propose a plan for things to become policy
5252015-11-27T17:49:37  <jtimon> so 6445 and 6423, for example, make the code more confusing?
5262015-11-27T17:49:44  <sipa> now it's just random moves, and (other than with consensus code) there is no obvious way for what is policy and what isn't
5272015-11-27T17:49:45  <jtimon> sipa: another doc for policy?
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5292015-11-27T17:51:58  <jtimon> I couldn't do that, as you say, that potentially never ends (unless there's ever a "right place" for people to put new policy stuff)
5302015-11-27T17:51:59  <sipa> 6445 is not policy encapsulation
5312015-11-27T17:52:03  <jtimon> no, but it was said (I can find the comment) that it would interfere with mempool code
5322015-11-27T17:52:05  <sipa> it's just churn...
5332015-11-27T17:52:09  <jtimon> that's why I closed it (that's what it has in common with 6068)
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5352015-11-27T17:54:21  -leguin.freenode.net- [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots -- please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
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5402015-11-27T18:03:23  <jtimon> sipa: I'm sorry to get so bored about writing that pdf, but no hurry, right? no consensus refactors after 0.12 anyway...
5412015-11-27T18:05:18  <jtimon> in fact the document kind of depends on the outcome of #7091
5422015-11-27T18:07:27  <jtimon> fwiw, I'm not coding anything policy-related
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5472015-11-27T18:46:54  <GitHub102> [bitcoin] petertodd opened pull request #7119: Add option to opt into full-RBF when sending funds (master...2015-11-opt-into-full-rbf-option) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7119
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5572015-11-27T20:31:29  <gmaxwell> "subver": "/bitcoinj:0.14-SNAPSHOT/"  sending me 38 pings in a second. :-/
5582015-11-27T20:37:15  <sipa> maybe we need some exponentially decaying badness score, and increment for everything peers do
5592015-11-27T20:39:14  <gmaxwell> and decrement for a few things that are decidely good.
5602015-11-27T20:39:42  <sipa> like being the first to relay a valid block?
5612015-11-27T20:40:04  <gmaxwell> yes, or a transaction we accepted.
5622015-11-27T20:40:33  <gmaxwell> Then this score could just be another node sort criteria in eviction/rotation.
5632015-11-27T20:40:45  <sipa> yeah
5642015-11-27T20:40:57  <sipa> and if gets actually high, it could turn into ban
5652015-11-27T20:41:30  <sipa> also, i think banscores should persist across reconnects
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5672015-11-27T20:44:22  <gmaxwell> e.g. have the initial score be 0, with an IIR decay to 0. Add score for every byte recieved, substract score for every byte in a getdata we asked for; or ping response we initiated.
5682015-11-27T20:55:36  <gmaxwell> strikes me as kind of risky that CValidationState is initilized to MODE_VALID in the constructor.
5692015-11-27T20:56:11  <aj> gmaxwell: (maybe make it a goodness score instead, so positive values are, well, positive?)
5702015-11-27T20:57:49  <gmaxwell> aj: envision me looking crossly at your shed painting.
5712015-11-27T20:58:40  <aj> gmaxwell: (isn't it pretty!)
5722015-11-27T20:58:57  <aj> gmaxwell: (it can store scooters as well!)
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5742015-11-27T21:04:04  <PRab> sipa gmaxwell: Would a persistent banscore make mitm attacks more powerful because p2p comms are unauthenticated right now?
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5772015-11-27T21:05:29  <Taek> on a similar note, if you decrement for things that are good, an attacker can leverage that to intentionally get ahead. Unless your average peer has a zero-badness score in the first place
5782015-11-27T21:10:47  <gmaxwell> Taek: they can't if being good is inherently limited.
5792015-11-27T21:11:04  <gmaxwell> (except by actually being good, in which case they're not much of an attacker!)
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