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522016-06-14T05:32:01 <whu> Is there any plan to move from POW to POS for bitcoin ??
532016-06-14T05:35:19 <helo> by the mentally unsound, whu
542016-06-14T05:36:35 <whu> So you guys dont see any merit in it ?
552016-06-14T05:37:22 <helo> #bitcoin is better to discuss trivialities like this
562016-06-14T05:37:51 <helo> this channel is for nuts-and-bolts dev, not musings
572016-06-14T05:39:22 <whu> I wanted to know what the core devs thought of it. Could you give me a one line answer on whether it is on the pipeline and I'll vanish.
582016-06-14T05:40:10 <helo> whu: PoS has been considered as thoroughly and discarded
592016-06-14T05:40:38 <whu> Thank you...
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642016-06-14T06:33:09 <GitHub116> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/be9711e59707...36b74002f840
652016-06-14T06:33:10 <GitHub116> bitcoin/master fa26c42 MarcoFalke: [qa] util: Move check_fee_amount out of wallet.py
662016-06-14T06:33:10 <GitHub116> bitcoin/master fae1d06 MarcoFalke: [qa] fundrawtransaction: Fix race, assert amounts
672016-06-14T06:33:11 <GitHub116> bitcoin/master 36b7400 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8201: [qa] fundrawtransaction: Fix race, assert amounts...
682016-06-14T06:33:19 <GitHub6> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8201: [qa] fundrawtransaction: Fix race, assert amounts (master...Mf1606-qaFundraw) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8201
692016-06-14T06:43:57 <jonasschnelli> sipa... hm... testnet-seed.bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch seems to run but doesn't return a result.
702016-06-14T06:44:05 <jonasschnelli> I'm running master with an old database...
712016-06-14T06:44:13 <jonasschnelli> I guess i need to delete the database.
722016-06-14T06:44:20 <jonasschnelli> Had to re-setup the server yesterday.
732016-06-14T06:53:13 <jonasschnelli> sipa: Okay. testnet-seed.bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch is up and running again.
742016-06-14T06:53:38 <jonasschnelli> I missed to install tor (which I used to bypass the malware scanner from my server center operator)
752016-06-14T06:55:00 *** xiangfu has quit IRC
762016-06-14T06:55:21 <GitHub151> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli closed pull request #8200: [Tests] Fix fundrawtransaction feerate test (master...2016/06/fix_frt_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8200
772016-06-14T07:02:08 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: windows gitian builds still broken? https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/nightlybuilds/2016-06-14/build-win.log (check bottom)
782016-06-14T07:02:20 <jonasschnelli> checking whether the C++ compiler works... no
792016-06-14T07:08:02 <GitHub28> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/36b74002f840...8c1d5ebd1706
802016-06-14T07:08:02 <GitHub28> bitcoin/master 01a9904 fanquake: [trivial] Ignore split-debug.sh
812016-06-14T07:08:03 <GitHub28> bitcoin/master 8c1d5eb Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8197: [trivial] Ignore split-debug.sh...
822016-06-14T07:08:12 <GitHub102> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8197: [trivial] Ignore split-debug.sh (master...ignore-split-debug) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8197
832016-06-14T07:14:04 <GitHub69> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8c1d5ebd1706...cca1c8cff011
842016-06-14T07:14:04 <GitHub69> bitcoin/master fa61756 MarcoFalke: [gitian] set correct PATH for wrappers
852016-06-14T07:14:05 <GitHub69> bitcoin/master cca1c8c Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8194: [gitian] set correct PATH for wrappers...
862016-06-14T07:14:14 <GitHub108> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8194: [gitian] set correct PATH for wrappers (master...Mf1606-gitianPath) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8194
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912016-06-14T08:57:23 <MarcoFalke> jonasschnelli: The windows build should be working now
922016-06-14T08:57:26 *** Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
932016-06-14T08:57:41 <MarcoFalke> Try the new descriptors from master
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982016-06-14T09:31:52 <jonasschnelli> Okay. Testing now with the new windows descriptor: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/pulls/7636/
992016-06-14T09:40:39 <GitHub13> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7186: [WIP] Backports for 0.10.5 (updated to 93ca5a3) (0.10...backports-for-0.10.5) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7186
1002016-06-14T09:45:00 <GitHub46> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 5 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/cca1c8cff011...b67a4726dfc3
1012016-06-14T09:45:01 <GitHub46> bitcoin/master f190251 Jonas Schnelli: [Wallet] Add simplest BIP32/deterministic key generation implementation
1022016-06-14T09:45:01 <GitHub46> bitcoin/master c022e5b Jonas Schnelli: [Wallet] use constant for bip32 hardened key limit
1032016-06-14T09:45:02 <GitHub46> bitcoin/master 17c0131 Jonas Schnelli: [Docs] Add release notes and bip update for Bip32/HD wallets
1042016-06-14T09:45:06 <GitHub22> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8035: [Wallet] Add simplest BIP32/deterministic key generation implementation (master...2016/05/simplest_hd) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8035
1052016-06-14T09:45:11 <jonasschnelli> Yes!
1062016-06-14T09:48:43 *** shangzhou has quit IRC
1072016-06-14T09:50:01 <GitHub55> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b67a4726dfc3...520161480eb1
1082016-06-14T09:50:01 <GitHub55> bitcoin/master 0e209f9 fanquake: [trivial] Sync ax_pthread with upstream draft
1092016-06-14T09:50:02 <GitHub55> bitcoin/master 5201614 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #8198: [trivial] Sync ax_pthread with upstream draft4...
1102016-06-14T09:50:06 <GitHub4> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #8198: [trivial] Sync ax_pthread with upstream draft4 (master...sync-pthread) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8198
1112016-06-14T09:55:03 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: bah, if this continues we'll have no 0.13 release for windows :p
1122016-06-14T09:56:11 <wumpus> getting all OS builds to work should probably be focus #1 after the feature freeze
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1142016-06-14T09:57:29 <wumpus> as well as getting qt 5.6.1 to work
1152016-06-14T09:58:01 *** proslogion has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1162016-06-14T10:00:46 <wumpus> I really like the new parallel rpc test launcher
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1192016-06-14T10:08:45 <wumpus> anyone recognize this issue with gitian? http://www.hastebin.com/xununifuxa.txt
1202016-06-14T10:09:29 <wumpus> interesting, just repeating the gbuild seems to get past it
1212016-06-14T10:10:16 <wumpus> lxc is weird
1222016-06-14T10:17:14 <btcdrak> wumpus: it happens randomly and you just have to run the command again. It's been like that for as long as i remember
1232016-06-14T10:17:17 <wumpus> it's building the dependencies, this couuld take awhile
1242016-06-14T10:17:49 <wumpus> btcdrak: yes I also remember seeing it before
1252016-06-14T10:20:08 <wumpus> it's half-panic every time, debugging issues with gitian is tiring as everything goes so slow, I use this VM for nothing else to make sure (hopefully) nothing breaks it
1262016-06-14T10:21:14 <wumpus> I wonder why we have no "upgrade gitian base image" step? doing a system upgrade before every build seems... overkill
1272016-06-14T10:21:45 <wumpus> I know apt-cacher is caching the packages so there is no bandwidth overhead but it is still slow
1282016-06-14T10:27:35 <GitHub83> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #7230: BIP-draft: 2mb blocksize step (master...2015_2mb_blocksize_step) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7230
1292016-06-14T10:33:40 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: I'm trying to get a bucket of random testnet hosts by looking up testnet-seed.bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch manually, but none of the node IP returned seem to have port 18333 open, am I doing something wrong?
1302016-06-14T10:34:22 <wumpus> or just incredibly unlucky, one time I even got only ipv6 addresses :)
1312016-06-14T10:36:31 <wumpus> oh it must be the address obfuscation, of course
1322016-06-14T10:38:22 <sipa> address obfuscation? i thought we never adopted that
1332016-06-14T10:39:50 <wumpus> I don't think so either
1342016-06-14T10:40:27 <wumpus> I don't know then - using another seed gave me valid addresses, btw
1352016-06-14T10:41:54 <sipa> maybe all testnet seeds are short lived?
1362016-06-14T10:42:32 *** mkarrer has quit IRC
1372016-06-14T10:43:07 <wumpus> well I checked about 30 addresses returned from jonasschnelli's seed, none could connect, the first one I tried from petertodd's seed was a hit
1382016-06-14T10:43:24 <sipa> hmm
1392016-06-14T10:45:25 *** mkarrer has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1402016-06-14T10:46:31 <wumpus> *yawn* now my testnet node hangs at 40% verification
1412016-06-14T10:46:40 <wumpus> I should go back to bed, everything goes wrong today
1422016-06-14T10:46:48 <sipa> awww
1432016-06-14T10:48:00 <sipa> i see a stream of questions on stackexchange about unconfirmed transactions (mostly created by old software)... i really hope we can get some "fee increase" mechanism in
1442016-06-14T10:49:14 <wumpus> well https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7865 is tagged for 0.13, but I doubt it is ready yet
1452016-06-14T10:49:50 <wumpus> ugh, why would a node with checklevel=0 hang while doing the initial verification, I don't get it
1462016-06-14T10:51:06 <wumpus> oh of course, let attach gdb, great idea, thanks ubuntu for making it so difficult I first have to become root or enable a flag...
1472016-06-14T10:51:35 <sipa> ha, yes, after doing that a dozen times, i changed the default in sysctl.conf
1482016-06-14T10:52:02 <sipa> my guess is that leveldb is compacting
1492016-06-14T10:52:06 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: I think the windows build works again: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/pulls/7636/
1502016-06-14T10:52:09 <wumpus> I forget that every time, normally I just start bitcoind in gdb, but thought I was donig something so trivial now that it would be unnecessary - wrong :p
1512016-06-14T10:52:43 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: re seeder, I started the testnet seeder with a new database this morning. Not sure if the seeder already results enough data.
1522016-06-14T10:53:11 <sipa> jonasschnelli: perhaps you should delete the db and start over?
1532016-06-14T10:53:24 <jonasschnelli> yes. I did this this morning ~9oclock
1542016-06-14T10:53:30 <sipa> ah
1552016-06-14T10:53:43 <jonasschnelli> ah.. wait... I guess it's scanning mainnet. :(
1562016-06-14T10:53:49 <sipa> ha
1572016-06-14T10:53:52 <btcdrak> lmao
1582016-06-14T10:54:06 <wumpus> oh, nm, I was looking at the wrong log
1592016-06-14T10:54:09 <jonasschnelli> fooled by the subdomain. :)
1602016-06-14T10:55:25 <jonasschnelli> Okay. removed the database and started in testnet mode
1612016-06-14T10:55:28 <wumpus> yes, windows build seems to work
1622016-06-14T10:55:54 <jonasschnelli> sipa: [...] i really hope we can get some "fee increase" mechanism in
1632016-06-14T10:55:55 <wumpus> current master: 291be202508e518646116677cc99cb1333739d52e2c4ae7259359b3bd3729e0c bitcoin-0.12.99-win-unsigned.tar.gz
1642016-06-14T10:56:03 <jonasschnelli> sipa: you could review the bumpfee command.
1652016-06-14T10:56:22 <jonasschnelli> I'm not entirely sure if taking a txid and autobump it is the way to go though.
1662016-06-14T10:57:17 <sipa> if CPFP gets in, there is an easier solution
1672016-06-14T10:58:19 <sipa> jonasschnelli: i don't know how to make this easy to use
1682016-06-14T10:58:29 <wumpus> how is addnode supposed to work? I added a few (seemingly functional) testnet nodes, but they all stay at "connected": false in getaddednodeinfo (testing #8113)
1692016-06-14T10:58:35 <jonasschnelli> I'm planing on extending the HD feature. Importing/starting a wallet with a xpriv key. How should we do that. I guess having a -xpriv= startup argument is very bad.
1702016-06-14T10:58:42 <sipa> wumpus: it cycles every 2 minutes
1712016-06-14T10:58:46 <wumpus> let's first worry about having some mechanism in, and then about making it easy to use
1722016-06-14T10:59:10 <sipa> wumpus: and then tries to connect to one of the unconnected addnodes
1732016-06-14T10:59:17 <wumpus> there's only two days left before the feature freeze so we need to make some choices
1742016-06-14T10:59:24 <wumpus> sipa: okay, thanks
1752016-06-14T11:02:06 <jonasschnelli> would ./bitcoin-wallet be a tool where users could create a wallet(.dat) with a xpriv?
1762016-06-14T11:02:17 <jonasschnelli> Everything that goes over RPC is somehow not ideal
1772016-06-14T11:02:56 <wumpus> that's the eternal question - command line isn't the ideal interface either though, especially if you're not writing shell script
1782016-06-14T11:04:31 <wumpus> I think having wallet creation commands on RPC makes some sense, at least once there is multi-wallet support
1792016-06-14T11:04:57 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Yes. But right now, we create the wallet before the RPC is ready.
1802016-06-14T11:05:10 <wumpus> yes, right now, I'm sure that needs to be changed
1812016-06-14T11:05:13 <wumpus> is there a hurry?
1822016-06-14T11:05:18 <jonasschnelli> No hurry.
1832016-06-14T11:05:34 <jonasschnelli> Certenly not something for 0.13
1842016-06-14T11:05:46 <jonasschnelli> But need some brainfood for afk time. :)
1852016-06-14T11:05:49 <wumpus> decoupling the wallet further would mean that node RPC could be ready, before the wallet even starts loading/creating
1862016-06-14T11:06:06 <wumpus> especially if the wallet has its own entry point
1872016-06-14T11:06:15 <jonasschnelli> yes. I'm working on removine the splash screen and add this state
1882016-06-14T11:06:46 <wumpus> removing the splash screen? I'd think we still need it during initial verification
1892016-06-14T11:07:23 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Yes. But you can access the wallet during this time. Get addresses, list transactions, etc.
1902016-06-14T11:07:27 <wumpus> there's something to be said for having a wallet as an external tool/library, but the scope for doing that within bitcoin core is very small
1912016-06-14T11:07:49 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: I don't think that's a very good idea, even being able to access the wallet during *synchronization* caused a ton of confused users
1922016-06-14T11:08:34 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: but decoupling the wallet would result in such states. I guess all SPV wallets allow address/tx access in out-of-sync state.
1932016-06-14T11:08:35 <wumpus> e.g. 'I downloaded bitcoin core and sent from *web wallet provider* to a new address, now my transaction doesn't show!'
1942016-06-14T11:08:42 <jonasschnelli> Sure, we might want to add a SPV mode first.
1952016-06-14T11:09:10 <wumpus> possibly, but I don't think - right now - there is any benefit to removing the splash screen and showing a (mostly dysfunctional) GUI instead
1962016-06-14T11:09:21 <jonasschnelli> But its annoying that you need to go through verification/checkblocks if you want to get a new address
1972016-06-14T11:09:55 <wumpus> possibly... checkblocks takes too long by default, that's aother issue
1982016-06-14T11:10:13 <jonasschnelli> IMO the (wallet)GUI is fully functional during init-verification
1992016-06-14T11:10:25 <wumpus> I think validating the last blocks is a good thing, but the default depth setting is overkill
2002016-06-14T11:10:41 <jonasschnelli> Yes. But the node (validation) is not tied to the wallet/GUI.
2012016-06-14T11:10:58 <wumpus> that's true...
2022016-06-14T11:11:04 <jonasschnelli> But right. We need more prominent warnings if the wallet is not in sync
2032016-06-14T11:11:22 <wumpus> but it won't start syncing blocks until that part is done, so people will still complain 'why isn't it synching!!!'
2042016-06-14T11:11:36 <wumpus> WHHY IS THERE NO BLOCK SOURCE AVAILABLE
2052016-06-14T11:11:51 <jonasschnelli> Heh... yes. probably.
2062016-06-14T11:12:10 <jonasschnelli> Step by step...
2072016-06-14T11:12:19 <jonasschnelli> For 0.14 i'd like to focus more on the UI
2082016-06-14T11:12:28 <wumpus> you're right that creating an address can be done without any node functionality, but then, people can't see transactions to the address without it, or being in sync
2092016-06-14T11:12:48 <sipa> i think we should disable that feature by default
2102016-06-14T11:13:06 <wumpus> which is arguably the part people care about, actually receiving coins
2112016-06-14T11:13:08 <sipa> not show a receive address until sync is done
2122016-06-14T11:13:26 <wumpus> well for a start it should show a big red warning in the transaction pane when not up to date
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2142016-06-14T11:13:32 <wumpus> I don't think you need to actually disable it
2152016-06-14T11:13:44 <wumpus> but just warn better
2162016-06-14T11:13:50 <sipa> perhaps make it greyed out with a button, and if you click it it first asks you "are you aware that you'll only receive once you're synced?"
2172016-06-14T11:14:04 <wumpus> there is no indication right now excapt for the extremely toned-down out-of-sync triangles
2182016-06-14T11:14:27 <jonasschnelli> Wouldn't this be to much handholding for expert users?
2192016-06-14T11:14:37 <jonasschnelli> (not the warning)
2202016-06-14T11:14:48 <jonasschnelli> (just the fact that you can't get addresses when you are not in sync)
2212016-06-14T11:14:57 <wumpus> yes, i think that's too much babysitting
2222016-06-14T11:15:25 <jonasschnelli> IMO even the fact that you need to wait for the init/checks before you can list transactions or get new addresses.
2232016-06-14T11:15:26 <wumpus> lots of people do know that, it's just new users that don't, maybe we should add a tutorial mode on first use
2242016-06-14T11:15:42 <sipa> right
2252016-06-14T11:16:03 <sipa> yes, just thinking through how a first time user sees all this
2262016-06-14T11:16:55 <jonasschnelli> This is the difficulty: make it useable for basic/new bitcoin users but also make the experts happy.
2272016-06-14T11:17:08 <wumpus> yes
2282016-06-14T11:17:39 <wumpus> in any case, adding a warning wouldn't hurt and is easy to do
2292016-06-14T11:18:07 <GitHub179> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/520161480eb1...fb0ac482eee7
2302016-06-14T11:18:07 <GitHub179> bitcoin/master 1c2a1ba Francesco 'makevoid' Canessa: Add address label to request payment QR Code (QT)...
2312016-06-14T11:18:08 <GitHub179> bitcoin/master fb0ac48 Jonas Schnelli: Merge #7636: Add bitcoin address label to request payment QR code...
2322016-06-14T11:18:12 <GitHub124> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli closed pull request #7636: Add bitcoin address label to request payment QR code (master...request_payment_qrcode_address_label) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7636
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2342016-06-14T11:20:00 <wumpus> how exactly is up to the person implementing it, I guess
2352016-06-14T11:21:06 <wumpus> there's enough place on the "receive" tab to add a warning, and in the transaction pane I suppose it could show an overlay if there are no transactions yet and it is syncing
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2382016-06-14T11:26:28 <MarcoFalke> Anyone seeing OOM for gitian builds?
2392016-06-14T11:26:34 <MarcoFalke> in main.cpp
2402016-06-14T11:27:19 <wumpus> no, though adding of debug symbols in #8167 did increase the memory requirements for gitian a bit
2412016-06-14T11:28:00 <MarcoFalke> How does gbuild set up the ram of the vm?
2422016-06-14T11:28:20 <MarcoFalke> I could try to increase it, I guess.
2432016-06-14T11:29:08 <wumpus> -j5 -m5000 where -j is the parallelism and -m is the memory size in mb
2442016-06-14T11:31:28 <wumpus> what is the expected behavior when addnoding a seed?
2452016-06-14T11:32:34 <sipa> very fuzzy
2462016-06-14T11:32:49 <sipa> i think it won't make any connection if you already have 8 outgoing ones
2472016-06-14T11:32:58 <wumpus> for me it works with IPs but not with hostnames
2482016-06-14T11:33:09 <sipa> it should work with hostnames
2492016-06-14T11:33:44 <sipa> wumpus: is this in #8113?
2502016-06-14T11:33:55 <wumpus> the expectation is that it looks up the address for the seed then connect to the first address, I suppose?
2512016-06-14T11:33:59 <wumpus> yes
2522016-06-14T11:34:07 <sipa> it randonly tries one of the returned ip addtesses every 2 minutes
2532016-06-14T11:34:18 <sipa> if one fails, there is another attempt 2 minutes later
2542016-06-14T11:34:29 <wumpus> it stays at 'connected': false all the time
2552016-06-14T11:34:47 <sipa> do you have 8 outgoing connections already?
2562016-06-14T11:35:02 <wumpus> yes
2572016-06-14T11:35:13 <wumpus> should I kick some other connections?
2582016-06-14T11:35:53 <wumpus> ok disconnected all nodes, let's see what happens
2592016-06-14T11:36:48 <sipa> the addnode logic should be integrated into the normal outgoing connection logic, and be protected from eviction
2602016-06-14T11:37:21 <wumpus> yes, I suppose so, how badly this works I wonder if anyone was actually using this functionality and whether it makes sense to spend time on it
2612016-06-14T11:38:54 <sipa> i think after we have p2p encryption and authentication, we may want to encourage it
2622016-06-14T11:40:45 <MarcoFalke> looks like it is using 2000MiB as default. In case the default is no longer enough, it may be worth to adjust https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-process.md#build-and-sign-bitcoin-core-for-linux-windows-and-os-x
2632016-06-14T11:40:51 <wumpus> I set up a hostname for a known-working testnet node, lets see if it wants to connect to that...
2642016-06-14T11:42:22 <wumpus> evicting all other nodes again
2652016-06-14T11:42:44 <wumpus> MarcoFalke: yes, I guess so
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2672016-06-14T11:44:08 <wumpus> it didn't work automatically, though I could force it to connect with "addnode hostname onetry"
2682016-06-14T11:44:16 <wumpus> now it shows up in getaddednodeinfo
2692016-06-14T11:45:09 <sipa> over long periods of time, it will end up connecring to the addnode nodes when other outgoing connections die
2702016-06-14T11:45:36 <wumpus> but I disconnected all other nodes; I don't see why I would have to wait longer than 2 minutes in that case
2712016-06-14T11:45:57 <wumpus> in any case I managed to force it to connect and it shows up in getaddednodeinfo correcty
2722016-06-14T11:47:02 <wumpus> I still hope Matt can give #8113 a try
2732016-06-14T11:47:12 <wumpus> and check it still does whatever he expects from it
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2792016-06-14T12:28:18 <murch> sipa: Perhaps you remember that we talked about the Coin Selection algorithm a little bit about a month ago. I'm now indeed writing my Master's thesis about that problem. :) I was wondering if someone could confirm or deny my understanding of the current algorithm's behavior.
2802016-06-14T12:28:23 <murch> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/fb0ac482eee761ec17ed2c11df11e054347a026d/src/wallet/wallet.cpp#L1863
2812016-06-14T12:29:27 <murch> Do I understand correctly, that this actually uses the sorted list (decreasing) of available UTXO and selects each UTXO with a 50%? That would easily explain the growth of the UTXO set, if I'm not mistaken.
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2842016-06-14T12:30:31 <sipa> murch: i can't say that i've ever looked at the algorithm in detail
2852016-06-14T12:32:04 <sipa> murch: it looks like it does 1000 iterations over all UTXOs twice, stopping when it goes over the maximum
2862016-06-14T12:33:31 <murch> sipa: But vValue is sorted in decreasing order by size, and it starts at the front selecting UTXO with a random binary chance. That would significantly increase the chance for large UTXO to be selected as inputs, especially since the maximum should be reached quickly when big inputs are added first.
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2882016-06-14T12:34:26 <murch> I used to think that it randomly selected from all UTXO with equal chance (that's what I simulated two years ago), but I just realized yesterday, that it doesn't seem to do that (anymore?).
2892016-06-14T12:35:22 <murch> Unless I'm jut confused about what's happening there, because that seems like a really easy explanation for the UTXO growth.
2902016-06-14T12:35:45 <sipa> murch: it's in increasing value, i think?
2912016-06-14T12:36:23 <sipa> CompareValueOnly does a < for the value
2922016-06-14T12:36:47 <murch> sipa: sort() puts it in ascending order, and it is reversed afterwards: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/fb0ac482eee761ec17ed2c11df11e054347a026d/src/wallet/wallet.cpp#L1962
2932016-06-14T12:37:02 <sipa> oh, right
2942016-06-14T12:37:04 <instagibbs> it used to be a much more ocnfusing rsort....
2952016-06-14T12:38:08 <murch> instagibbs: Yeah, I proposed to at least split it in two lines for better readability. :)
2962016-06-14T12:39:34 <murch> sipa: Now don't fix it today though, I still want to write my thesis on it! ^^
2972016-06-14T12:39:53 <sipa> murch: i'm not going to fix anything; i hope you do :)
2982016-06-14T12:41:04 <murch> sipa: But, it would be very helpful to me if you could tell me whether I understood correctly what it does there, and I'm not overlooking something glaringly obvious. Because my next step would be to simulate how much of a difference it would make to pick randomly instead of from the front.
2992016-06-14T12:41:36 <murch> Seems like a good idea to check the facts before I spend a bunch of hours on something useless. :)
3002016-06-14T12:41:51 <sipa> i think you've looked at it better than i have
3012016-06-14T12:42:55 <murch> Yeah, but my overall familiarity with the Bitcoin Core is slightly behind yours. ;) But I guess, I'd count that as an "I haven't seen anything that contradicts Murch". :)
3022016-06-14T12:43:19 <murch> Then⦠coming up next, simulation results, I hope.
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3042016-06-14T12:46:17 <murch> sipa: Thanks
3052016-06-14T12:47:13 <MarcoFalke> murch: Correct
3062016-06-14T12:47:28 <murch> MarcoFalke: Thank you
3072016-06-14T12:47:43 <MarcoFalke> The first pass is selecting a coin with prob .5 as long as the target is not reached
3082016-06-14T12:47:43 <sipa> perhaps you should talk to MarcoFalke instead :)
3092016-06-14T12:48:05 <murch> Yeah, I believe we've collaborated on this last time around as well. :)
3102016-06-14T12:48:07 <MarcoFalke> The second pass will select anything that is not included as long as the target is not reached
3112016-06-14T12:48:26 <NicolasDorier> might be useful to see the votes http://api.qbit.ninja/versionstats
3122016-06-14T12:48:58 <MarcoFalke> But in any case it will always "unselect" coins when the target was reached to try to "hit the target better" by trying with smaller coins
3132016-06-14T12:49:03 <murch> MarcoFalke: I didn't realize this before, but that approach significantly biases towards selecting large UTXO. Do you remember whether the algorithm used to work differently? That would explain the accelerated growth of the UTXO set, no?
3142016-06-14T12:49:33 <murch> Aaah, right. I had forgotten about that.
3152016-06-14T12:49:54 <MarcoFalke> I think this is still the way satoshi wrote it
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3182016-06-14T12:50:14 <MarcoFalke> (you could check git log -S or something)
3192016-06-14T12:50:48 <instagibbs> murch, you have to remember that excessive amounts of inputs take longer to verify
3202016-06-14T12:50:58 <instagibbs> might be taken into account
3212016-06-14T12:51:02 <_anthony_> morning all
3222016-06-14T12:51:07 <MarcoFalke> The problem is that zero-fee (free) transaction were more common back then
3232016-06-14T12:51:32 <MarcoFalke> Right now transaction with no fee (trying to "pay" with priority) are impossible to get through
3242016-06-14T12:51:38 <sipa> if you're not trying to hit the target exactly, i think you can limit yourself to only choosing a certain number of utxos from within a range around the target value (say [0.1*target...3*target]
3252016-06-14T12:51:40 <MarcoFalke> but coin selection was not adjusted accordingly
3262016-06-14T12:52:07 <murch> instagibbs: I solved that by outsourcing the selection to a binary array that flags selected inputs, instead of directly creating sets. That made it much faster. (or do you mean for confirmation on the network?)
3272016-06-14T12:52:38 <instagibbs> murch, signing the txn requires hashing the txn over and over for each input.
3282016-06-14T12:52:49 <instagibbs> (pre-segwit)
3292016-06-14T12:53:49 <murch> instagibbs: Ah, now I get what you mean. Yes, I'm aware. There are also a bunch of other incentives why you don't want to use too many inputs such as fees, and privacy. I'm working on properly writing up all those constraints and requirements for my thesis. :)
3302016-06-14T12:53:58 <_anthony_> I have a question: as far as I can tell, script versioning lets you put arbitrary data in the blockchain (just use an unused version number). Is this right?
3312016-06-14T12:54:00 <instagibbs> I'm almost sure it wasn't the original idea though, just saying. As sipa said you can simply make sure it doesn't do that by bounding input size
3322016-06-14T12:55:28 <instagibbs> _anthony_, the block cost is still static
3332016-06-14T12:55:52 <MarcoFalke> murch, you are welcome to do a presentation on your results during a irc meeting
3342016-06-14T12:56:01 <MarcoFalke> they are every thursday
3352016-06-14T12:56:43 <_anthony_> hmm, yeah, I guess it isn't really much of an advantage
3362016-06-14T12:57:25 <murch> MarcoFalke: Thank you, I'd be happy to. I'll get in touch when I have something to present. Perhaps not this week, but next week.
3372016-06-14T12:57:36 <instagibbs> _anthony_, otherwise someone today could send a v16 segwit transaction, and stuff 8GB in it
3382016-06-14T12:57:39 <MarcoFalke> no pressure :)
3392016-06-14T12:58:15 <murch> MarcoFalke: Well, this time I'm fairly certain that I'll have something to present, as in October, I'll have to present some fifty odd pages of work. :)
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3412016-06-14T12:58:29 <instagibbs> murch, will it include a PR? ;)
3422016-06-14T12:58:57 <MarcoFalke> We should look at the new model first
3432016-06-14T12:59:12 <murch> instagibbs: That's the plan, although my advisor scolded me last time that it's not part of my thesis, just an added bonus for myself. :)
3442016-06-14T12:59:13 <MarcoFalke> Otherwise the pr will receive no review and bitrot instantly
3452016-06-14T13:00:01 <_anthony_> yeah I caught that part....I was thinking of how you could make an altcoin using script versioning, but really it wouldn't provide any advantage over regular anyone-can-spend txes
3462016-06-14T13:00:21 <murch> instagibbs: Main goals of the work are a comprehensive overview of the problem, the different parameters and approaches how it could be solved, and an evaluation of said approaches. Whether or not it gets adopted by Bitcoin Core is not part of my thesis, but a personal goal. :)
3472016-06-14T13:00:32 <_anthony_> you'd have to have support of >50% of miners or else anyone could spend your altcoins out from under you
3482016-06-14T13:03:46 <murch> MarcoFalke: Noted. :)
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3652016-06-14T14:24:23 <Chris_St1> Is there a reason the user agent inside of a version message would change when connecting to nodes within a 5 second period? On testnet..
3662016-06-14T14:24:58 <sipa> the agent you sent send, or receive?
3672016-06-14T14:25:18 <wumpus> at least bitcoin core doesn't change the 'user agent' on such conditions, no
3682016-06-14T14:26:02 <Chris_St1> I'm sending a version message to a tesnet dns seed, and receiving their version message back. If I do this within a 5 second period I'm getting different versions on that same node
3692016-06-14T14:26:24 <wumpus> although you should avoid connecting to nodes too intensively
3702016-06-14T14:26:41 <Chris_St1> i.e /Satoshi:0.12.0/ then 5 seconds later /Satoshi:0.11.2/
3712016-06-14T14:26:48 <wumpus> 'change your user agent' isn't a very useful defense against that
3722016-06-14T14:27:15 <wumpus> you're connecting to the seed, as in the DNS name? that resolves to a different host every time
3732016-06-14T14:27:31 <Chris_St1> mmm yes that could be it
3742016-06-14T14:27:42 <sipa> pretty sure that's it :)
3752016-06-14T14:28:00 <Chris_St1> Yep. Doh!
3762016-06-14T14:28:05 <Chris_St1> Thansk
3772016-06-14T14:31:11 <sipa> no results from x9.testnet-seed.bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch :(
3782016-06-14T14:31:57 <jonasschnelli> sipa: this means no NODE_WITNESS nodes...
3792016-06-14T14:32:20 <sipa> indeed.
3802016-06-14T14:32:22 <sipa> that's pretty bad
3812016-06-14T14:32:33 <sdaftuar> i have one if you want to connect to it
3822016-06-14T14:32:50 <instagibbs> sipa, where should ACKs be going for segwit pr
3832016-06-14T14:32:57 <jonasschnelli> sipa: I guess in master the dnsseed.dump does not list the service flags?
3842016-06-14T14:33:02 <sipa> jonasschnelli: it does
3852016-06-14T14:33:18 <jonasschnelli> ah .. yes. second last col
3862016-06-14T14:33:31 <sipa> under svcs
3872016-06-14T14:34:23 <wumpus> instagibbs: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7910
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3902016-06-14T14:35:07 <instagibbs> wumpus, roger
3912016-06-14T14:36:30 <sipa> wumpus, instagibbs: yeah, let's keep everhthing on 7910... thoughit's 8149 that would be merged, i guess
3922016-06-14T14:37:03 <instagibbs> that's fine
3932016-06-14T14:38:43 <btcdrak> maybe you can put an ACK transfer list in #8149 like was done in #7524
3942016-06-14T14:40:43 <jonasschnelli> sipa: Yes. There are no nodes with 00000009
3952016-06-14T14:41:03 <jonasschnelli> Could it be because I scan though tor? I guess should result in ~the same when scanning not through tor
3962016-06-14T14:41:35 <sipa> i guess there just are very few
3972016-06-14T14:47:15 <sdaftuar> i believe there are very few
3982016-06-14T14:47:51 <sdaftuar> i hacked my code recently to only connect to witness peers, and let it run for a long time (~hours) without finding anyone
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5002016-06-14T22:53:03 <GitHub116> [bitcoin] nathaniel-mahieu opened pull request #8203: Clarify documentation for running a tor node (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8203
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