12017-03-25T00:34:09  <gmaxwell> oh theo, trolling about the openssl license thing by targing unrelated parties: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=149032069130072&w=2
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 342017-03-25T05:16:34  <luke-jr> crap, sizefp is broken
 352017-03-25T05:17:09  <luke-jr> hm, or is it
 362017-03-25T05:18:31  <luke-jr> actually, I think it might be okay. it's possible to produce a fraud proof that lies about the tx count, but you'd never be able to make one that proves it's bigger than it really is I think
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 442017-03-25T06:33:21  <da2ce7> luke-jr: what is the cost of just relaying the full oversized block. Or at least the first 1mb of the block? Most SPV wallets have enough bandwidth for 1mb
 452017-03-25T06:35:57  <luke-jr> da2ce7: up to 4 MB with segwit
 462017-03-25T06:36:44  <da2ce7> that doesn't sound unreasonable for my phone either.
 472017-03-25T06:38:29  <da2ce7> Is SVP fraud proof spam/dos a concern?
 482017-03-25T06:38:57  <gmaxwell> da2ce7: yes, because if you don't like your fraud being proven first you claim fraud falsely on every block to every client... all the time and they waste bandwidth.
 492017-03-25T06:39:17  <gmaxwell> and the users get pissed and change software or turn off the feature.
 502017-03-25T06:39:48  <gmaxwell> though you're right to say that 1mb isn't that burdensom... kinda sad that all these wallets totally screw user privacy to save a bandwidth amount the user probably doesn't care about.
 512017-03-25T06:44:03  <da2ce7> Banning the Peer that gives a false proof isn't sufficient?  I suppose not, because the new peer that you could connect to could give a false fraud proof again.
 522017-03-25T06:45:23  <gmaxwell> well once you're convinced a given block was okay, you never need to fetch it.
 532017-03-25T06:45:27  <gmaxwell> er again.
 542017-03-25T06:45:38  <gmaxwell> but it can just happen for the next block.
 552017-03-25T06:46:42  <gmaxwell> luke-jr: a radically different approach would be able to have miners mergemine a message [Block 0x00023023423 is oversized.]... then you have some minimum difficulty for such messages such that dos is ineffectual.
 562017-03-25T06:46:58  <gmaxwell> and when you get one of those messages, you just go download the whole block to check for yourself.
 572017-03-25T06:47:26  <da2ce7> cool
 582017-03-25T06:47:29  <gmaxwell> hm. well I suppose the attacker can cheaply produce false proofs for all the good blocks, scratch that idea.
 592017-03-25T06:49:09  <da2ce7> Banning the offending peer isn't enough? A bad peer can only send 1 bad fraud proof... You would cycle through to 8 good peers quite quickly.
 602017-03-25T06:52:55  <da2ce7> You can also have a rate-limit, where if you get a new peer, you won't accept a fraud proof until they have been well behaved for a certain time, (such 1/2 * time connected to longest peer).
 612017-03-25T06:53:18  <da2ce7> This will severely rate-limit bad fraud proofs.
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 642017-03-25T07:23:13  <luke-jr> da2ce7: these nodes don't even accept incoming connections, so..
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 682017-03-25T08:06:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr opened pull request #10074: Block size/weight fraud proofs (master...sizefp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10074
 692017-03-25T08:08:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a0b1e57b20a1...530fcbd49be2
 702017-03-25T08:08:23  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cc995e2 flack: add missing spaces so that markdown recognizes headline
 712017-03-25T08:08:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 530fcbd Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #10063: add missing spaces so that markdown recognizes headline...
 722017-03-25T08:08:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #10063: add missing spaces so that markdown recognizes headline (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10063
 732017-03-25T08:10:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/530fcbd49be2...5d7eb39aecda
 742017-03-25T08:10:23  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c59aedc Thomas Snider: [trivial] Dead code removal
 752017-03-25T08:10:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5d7eb39 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #10067: [trivial] Dead code removal...
 762017-03-25T08:10:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #10067: [trivial] Dead code removal (master...tjps_dead_code) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10067
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 822017-03-25T09:01:58  <luke-jr> wumpus: blkindex.dat was the UTXO BDB database IIRC
 832017-03-25T09:04:56  <sipa> it was everything
 842017-03-25T09:05:08  <sipa> it has the byte position of every transactions
 852017-03-25T09:05:25  <sipa> and the byte position of the transaction that spent each input
 862017-03-25T09:05:45  <wumpus> ok
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 882017-03-25T09:07:34  <sipa> 12 bytes for every output ever :)
 892017-03-25T09:07:46  <sipa> bla bla scability
 902017-03-25T09:07:51  <sipa> *scalability
 912017-03-25T09:10:22  <wumpus> yes you did so much incredible work on that sipa :)
 922017-03-25T09:11:43  <wumpus> Huh! https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8218   "this issue was closed"  by whom? github admin?
 932017-03-25T09:12:32  <luke-jr>  ghost closed this on Jun 18, 2016
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 952017-03-25T09:13:09  <wumpus> oh. I was looking at the notifications and saw "this issue was closed" at the end, assuming that was the recent activity
 962017-03-25T09:13:25  <gmaxwell> 'ghost' ?!
 972017-03-25T09:13:41  <wumpus> if it was closed in 2016 already, okay, I still don't realy understand why but that makes sense
 982017-03-25T09:13:47  <wumpus> ghost is github's "removed user" account
 992017-03-25T09:13:55  <gmaxwell> oh the opened user.
1002017-03-25T09:14:39  <wumpus> jonasschnelli's post there still makes a lot of sense, we need a standard for these things
1012017-03-25T09:15:33  <wumpus> anyhow, sorry for the false alarm, github confused me
1022017-03-25T09:16:39  <da2ce7> Hello. #bitcoin-core-dev,  I've made a patch for BIP 148, unfortunately I'm not a developer so building it a secure manner is a bit over my head.  If anyone can fire-up their gitian, and help me verify the build it would be a great help for me.
1032017-03-25T09:16:40  <da2ce7> https://github.com/da2ce7/bitcoin/commit/f0bbd97bb5db7da1f8d0019973c048646ad44dbc
1042017-03-25T09:16:51  <da2ce7> (based upon bitcoin knots).
1052017-03-25T09:21:14  <wumpus> one gitian builder doesn't really accomplish much, the strength in that process is to make multiple people build something and compare. Or have you gitian-built it and want to compare hashes?
1062017-03-25T09:22:14  <da2ce7> I've only built bitcoin privately, I haven't used gitian before.  I don't want to release my private binaries.
1072017-03-25T09:23:12  <wumpus> you shouldn't feel okay distributing someone else's gitian-built binaries either
1082017-03-25T09:23:44  <wumpus> unless it's multiple independent people I guess
1092017-03-25T09:23:45  <luke-jr> I wouldn't mind providing one of multiple builds (not as an endorsement).
1102017-03-25T09:24:14  <wumpus> yes I wouldn't mind building either, but am a bit wary of subverting trust in gitian :) for the releasses we usually wait for 5 signers at least before distributing executables
1112017-03-25T09:24:42  <luke-jr> wumpus: sadly, Knots only usually has 2 signers to work with; maybe we can improve on this in general
1122017-03-25T09:25:14  <wumpus> luke-jr: yes, I don't mind building/signing that
1132017-03-25T09:25:39  <da2ce7> once I have the expected hashes, then I'll ask around for many people to build and verify it.
1142017-03-25T09:25:51  <luke-jr> wumpus: latest tag is v0.14.0.knots20170307 and the bitcoin-knots github has a sigs repo
1152017-03-25T09:26:06  <wumpus> as you say it's not an endorsement (though I have nothing against knots either) and improves general bitcoin security so anyhow
1162017-03-25T09:26:11  <sipa> why do we need gitian builds for a single patch?
1172017-03-25T09:27:31  <luke-jr> sipa: I guess people want to upgrade to it sooner rather than later; da2ce7 isn't the first wanting such binaries
1182017-03-25T09:27:40  <da2ce7> I want to release binaries that include this patch. Gitian (with many people verifying) is the only way I know that I would feel confident in doing so.
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1202017-03-25T09:43:05  * luke-jr wonders where to put unofficial gitian sigs
1212017-03-25T09:43:45  <wumpus> no idea, though having an official 'unofficial gitian sigs' repository would be kind of strange :)
1222017-03-25T09:44:02  <da2ce7> luke-jr you can just pm me. I will collect them and publish them once I have enough.  Be clear to include "unoffical" or something in the sig.
1232017-03-25T09:44:24  * luke-jr wonders how to indicate anything in gitian sigs :P
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1252017-03-25T09:45:47  <da2ce7> maybe possible to append something to the end of the binary hash?
1262017-03-25T09:46:26  <wumpus> the assert file is YAML, I think you can add additial fields that will be ignored by the tooling
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1282017-03-25T09:46:49  <luke-jr> ideally GPG would print a message upon verification
1292017-03-25T09:50:18  <wumpus> I doubt it's possible to add custom messages there
1302017-03-25T09:51:56  <wumpus> (as mimicing GPG output there could fool scripts, or even people expecting a certain output)
1312017-03-25T09:52:31  <luke-jr> true
1322017-03-25T09:56:12  <bambum> any agreement / concensus between core / miners / bu regarding onchain blocksize foreseeable or do we have to wait for 1. bu hard fork or/and 2. uasf or/and 3. pow change ? I am long term holder but considering to sell now :(
1332017-03-25T09:56:56  <wumpus> bambum: that's not a bitcoin-core-dev topic, #bitcoin please
1342017-03-25T09:59:33  <bambum> well #bitcoin is just speculation and fud, I would be happy to see some core opinion
1352017-03-25T10:00:07  <luke-jr> bambum: you can get that in #bitcoin too
1362017-03-25T10:00:31  <sipa> core is a software project; we don't decide what people should run
1372017-03-25T10:00:40  <sipa> please keep politics out of here
1382017-03-25T10:01:03  <wumpus> amen
1392017-03-25T10:02:30  <bambum> well you naturally dont need to answer this question. I just hoped to get some prospectics. I think its really important for bitcoin holder to know about it and i am sure you have your own view and don´t only focus on tecnical
1402017-03-25T10:03:47  <sipa> i have my own view, but it is completely off topic here
1412017-03-25T10:04:55  <sipa> please understand that the politics in this space severely affect people's lives here
1422017-03-25T10:05:08  <wumpus> right, everyone has their own view, but discussing those views is of topic here for the exact reason of preventing this from becoming a "speculation and fud" channel. We had that problem with bitcoin-dev and that's why this channel was created
1432017-03-25T10:07:33  <bambum> ok I got it, but you should also know that it also affects my life. I have almost my entire savings into bitcoin, its not so easy for me to get  allthat money into my bank account.
1442017-03-25T10:08:11  <luke-jr> bambum: again, please take it to #bitcoin ; many of us are there as well and would answer you if you ask there
1452017-03-25T10:08:19  <bambum> ok
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1482017-03-25T10:22:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #10075: Remove unused C++ code not covered by unit tests (master...unused) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10075
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1502017-03-25T11:15:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5d7eb39aecda...90dd9e6c4c0c
1512017-03-25T11:15:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b1f584d Matthew Zipkin: fix build if spaces in src dir path
1522017-03-25T11:15:49  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 90dd9e6 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #9946: Fix build errors if spaces in path or parent directory...
1532017-03-25T11:16:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #9946: Fix build errors if spaces in path or parent directory (master...dirspaces2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9946
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1632017-03-25T13:18:07  <guyonabike> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10074 <- are the names for the p2p messages accurate? I was thinking that maybe "fraud/getfraud" may be a good name to be used for other fraud proofs for spv, like tx inclusion/exclusion
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1672017-03-25T13:50:06  <luke-jr> guyonabike: yes, it's extensible
1682017-03-25T13:50:14  <luke-jr> guyonabike: see the FP type
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1712017-03-25T14:01:36  <guyonabike> as far as i understood from the code, the fraud, but I'm not sure about getfraud, perhaps add something analogous to invtype in getinv?
1722017-03-25T14:02:13  <guyonabike> luke-jr: sorry if I'm not making much sense, I'm relatively new in this
1732017-03-25T14:03:05  <luke-jr> did you read BIP 180? that might help ;)
1742017-03-25T14:12:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #10076: [qa] combine_logs: Use ordered list for logfiles (master...Mf1703-orderedLog) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10076
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1762017-03-25T14:20:33  <guyonabike> luke-jr: thanks. i was thinking on fraud proofs for mempool txs received by spv clients, where I could ask a random node for validation, but now I think that might be dangerous and probably more aligned to be a rpc call
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1782017-03-25T14:21:13  <guyonabike> luke-jr: thanks for writing this bip, its great work
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1802017-03-25T14:35:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #10077: [qa] Add setnetworkactive smoke test (master...Mf1703-toggleNet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10077
1812017-03-25T15:13:14  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/90dd9e6c4c0c...111849345bb5
1822017-03-25T15:13:14  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 803e6a3 Nicolas Dorier: [QA] Fix typo in fundrawtransaction test...
1832017-03-25T15:13:15  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1118493 MarcoFalke: Merge #10069: [QA] Fix typo in fundrawtransaction test...
1842017-03-25T15:13:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #10069: [QA] Fix typo in fundrawtransaction test (master...patch-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10069
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1902017-03-25T15:46:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #10078: [qa] Fundraw: Use named args to limit scope of names (master...Mf1703-qaNamedShadow) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10078
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2092017-03-25T19:16:41  <RealM9> So, when will you sign BIP148 binaries?
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2122017-03-25T19:30:52  <gmaxwell> In case "RealM9" comes back, I don't think anyone who regularly works on Bitcoin Core has even looked much at BIP148 yet.
2132017-03-25T19:31:23  <gmaxwell> We're certantly not going to ship a consensus change proposal that is only a couple weeks old.
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