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562017-07-31T05:01:35 <bryyan> if Bitcoin core is written in C++, why not support any kind of native interface directly (numbers as represented in memory going over tcp sockets as an RPC opposed to the serialised JSON RPC) ?
572017-07-31T05:02:55 <gmaxwell> because either it exposes internal datastructures which are unstable and change from version to version to outside applications; or it has to specify yet another encoding.
582017-07-31T05:03:13 <gmaxwell> and we do already have a binary encoding for most thigns: use the p2p protocol.
592017-07-31T05:04:23 <bryyan> I mean't like json but in a C struct
602017-07-31T05:04:45 <bryyan> and not a char* but between applications you would include a .h file containing the structs
612017-07-31T05:07:07 <sipa> structs don't have a well-defined serialization to bytes
622017-07-31T05:07:20 <bryyan> on the same architecture they do
632017-07-31T05:07:22 <sipa> different architectures store them differently in memory
642017-07-31T05:07:32 <sipa> just a different compilation option may change them
652017-07-31T05:07:46 <bryyan> yes, but why write bitcoin core in c++, a platform dependent language under many circumstances?
662017-07-31T05:08:31 <bryyan> additionally its often feasible to have multiple AMD64 machines which use the same format for C variables
672017-07-31T05:08:50 <sipa> efficiency, tight control over resource usage, high-level
682017-07-31T05:09:08 <bryyan> JSON is kind of cpu intensive to cast back and forth between native types you know
692017-07-31T05:09:20 <bryyan> directly copying 4 bytes of memory is far cheaper
702017-07-31T05:09:20 <sipa> you can use REST
712017-07-31T05:09:33 <bryyan> what is REST?
722017-07-31T05:09:42 <sipa> for some data with well-defined serialization, Bitcoin Core has a REST interface
732017-07-31T05:09:59 <sipa> you can fetch full blocks and transactions directly in binary network format over it
742017-07-31T05:10:13 <bryyan> without having to send a bunch of ascii json around?
752017-07-31T05:10:15 <sipa> to avoid the JSON encoding/decoding overhead
762017-07-31T05:10:15 <sipa> yes
772017-07-31T05:10:38 <sipa> but you still need a serialization/deserialization layer... it's not just a struct that gets sent over the network
782017-07-31T05:10:51 <bryyan> yes, but I'm looking for just that
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802017-07-31T05:11:24 <bryyan> I assume I have 2 machines of identical architecture and the fastest means of transfering data is in native format
812017-07-31T05:11:33 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/REST-interface.md
822017-07-31T05:11:42 <sipa> there is no 'native' format
832017-07-31T05:11:59 <bryyan> a C int type is native by my definition
842017-07-31T05:12:12 <bryyan> will look identical on 2 AMD64 machines
852017-07-31T05:12:16 <sipa> what's the native representation for a transaction?
862017-07-31T05:12:35 <sipa> it has a number of nested data structure of variable size
872017-07-31T05:12:40 <gmaxwell> none of the interesting data in bitcoin is just an int or a simple arrays of them.
882017-07-31T05:13:01 <gmaxwell> and as I said above, we do have a binary seralization of data: the p2p format.
892017-07-31T05:13:04 <bryyan> if you query for your balance, a float or double could work as a returned native type
902017-07-31T05:13:07 <gmaxwell> all ready for anyone to use.
912017-07-31T05:13:18 <gmaxwell> oh jesus bitcoin amounts aren't natively floating point.
922017-07-31T05:13:29 <gmaxwell> one should generally not use floating point when dealing with money.
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942017-07-31T05:13:56 <sipa> bryyan: the cost of computing the balance is orders of magnitude larger than running a json deserializers
952017-07-31T05:13:59 <bryyan> you know, floating point has a certain number of digits of accuracy, just don't go too far
962017-07-31T05:14:23 <bryyan> I don't think we're talking about the same thing
972017-07-31T05:14:32 <sipa> fine
982017-07-31T05:15:04 <bryyan> in a native binary (such as bitcoind) certain instructions are applied to do math with integers and floating point types, the format of those values in memory are the native types
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1012017-07-31T05:16:31 <bryyan> pretty printed json is like 64 bytes to represent a 4-byte int
1022017-07-31T05:16:34 <bryyan> very slow
1032017-07-31T05:17:49 <bryyan> additional information is transfered over the network when keeping a header file with bitcoind and with the RPC client containing C macros which resolve to short 2-byte sequences for calls, and structs for reciving will take up far less thoroughput
1042017-07-31T05:18:08 <bryyan> and after the word network there should be a comma I meant to put
1052017-07-31T05:18:52 <bryyan> if you've written programs in C you would know what I'm talking about
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1082017-07-31T05:25:37 <praxeology> bryyan: how about create software and find the RPC api as a bottleneck before you look to optimize it
1092017-07-31T05:26:22 <bryyan> for one thing, C doesn't handle JSON very well
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1112017-07-31T05:26:31 <bryyan> although thats more of a side problem
1122017-07-31T05:28:41 <phantomcircuit> bryyan, the question you want to be asking yourself right now is
1132017-07-31T05:28:43 <phantomcircuit> BUT WHY
1142017-07-31T05:30:01 <bryyan> largely because I plan to make an operating system, and JSON puts in wayyy to much computational overhead compared to even a native-type conversion service
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1162017-07-31T05:30:43 <bryyan> you can convert endianness, format, and signing polarity far quicker then serialising and de-serialising some json
1172017-07-31T05:31:50 <gmaxwell> Go away earlygrey.
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1192017-07-31T05:35:11 <bryyan> you could probably process 10s of requests in native format by the time a single JSON request completes
1202017-07-31T05:35:28 <bryyan> maybe even 100s with a well-optimized binary
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1252017-07-31T06:26:01 <luke-jr> bryyan: jansson handles JSON good enough
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1312017-07-31T06:52:59 <praxeology> luke-jr: did you see he is making an operating system?
1322017-07-31T06:53:01 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa opened pull request #10958: Update to latest Bitcoin patches for LevelDB (master...20170731_leveldb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10958
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1422017-07-31T07:33:28 <MarcoFalke> jnewbery: The issue is that the last commit of #10853 conflicts with other pulls tagged for 0.15
1432017-07-31T07:33:30 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10853 | [tests] Fix RPC failure testing (again) by jnewbery · Pull Request #10853 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1442017-07-31T07:33:45 <MarcoFalke> At this point I'd prefer if we didn't force a rebase on tagged pulls
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1462017-07-31T07:40:16 <jnewbery> MarcoFalke: I'm happy for 10853 to wait until after rc1
1472017-07-31T07:40:28 <jnewbery> Unless you want it before, in which case I'll split it
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1502017-07-31T07:43:51 <MarcoFalke> Fine, let's defer it for now.
1512017-07-31T07:44:05 <Oscillate> Hi,
1522017-07-31T07:45:46 <Oscillate> New to bitcoin here, can somebody tell me if the split is neccecary fot bitcoin hardfork ??
1532017-07-31T07:45:55 <sipa> Oscillate: #bitcoin
1542017-07-31T07:46:00 <Oscillate> for*
1552017-07-31T07:46:07 <Oscillate> thank you sipa
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1592017-07-31T07:57:26 <luke-jr> wumpus: can I get access to bitcoin-devwiki? seems github is picky about pushing changes via git/ssh :/
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1632017-07-31T08:12:41 <luke-jr> copypa;ted for no,
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1672017-07-31T08:45:42 <jnewbery> Hmmm, https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/ seems to have a gap between https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2017-07-28/?msg=89162968&page=1 and https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2017-07-31/?msg=89185019&page=1 . Are there any other public archives?
1682017-07-31T08:46:20 *** J-wolf has quit IRC
1692017-07-31T08:46:36 <jnewbery> (I have my own logs, but it's useful to be able to send a URL)
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1712017-07-31T08:47:13 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/70888a39c43a...2a50b11586a2
1722017-07-31T08:47:13 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9a8b054 Gregory Maxwell: Update defaultAssumeValid according to release-process.md....
1732017-07-31T08:47:14 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2a50b11 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #10945: Update defaultAssumeValid according to release-process.md....
1742017-07-31T08:47:15 *** J-wolf has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1752017-07-31T08:47:53 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #10945: Update defaultAssumeValid according to release-process.md. (master...201707-update-assumevalid) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10945
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1852017-07-31T09:35:34 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/2a50b11586a2...df3a6f4ee4e2
1862017-07-31T09:35:34 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f0acedd Wladimir J. van der Laan: p2p: Hardcoded seeds update pre-0.15 branch
1872017-07-31T09:35:35 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master df3a6f4 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #10948: p2p: Hardcoded seeds update pre-0.15 branch...
1882017-07-31T09:36:14 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #10948: p2p: Hardcoded seeds update pre-0.15 branch (master...2017_07_seeds_update) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10948
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1932017-07-31T10:03:56 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/df3a6f4ee4e2...af563971fcbe
1942017-07-31T10:03:56 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bdd5543 Alex Morcos: Clarify help message for -discardfee
1952017-07-31T10:03:57 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master af56397 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #10949: Clarify help message for -discardfee...
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1972017-07-31T10:04:29 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #10949: Clarify help message for -discardfee (master...betterhelp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10949
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2002017-07-31T10:25:25 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/42307c4bf363d695c68a65ba7cbf8d6790079abf
2012017-07-31T10:25:25 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 42307c4 Wladimir J. van der Laan: qt: Periodic translations update...
2022017-07-31T10:32:19 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #10961: Improve readability of DecodeBase58Check(...) (master...DecodeBase58Check-cleanup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10961
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2782017-07-31T15:05:27 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #10963: [bench] Restore format state of cout after printing with std::fixed/setprecision (master...restore-format-state-of-cout) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10963
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2812017-07-31T15:24:59 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #10964: Pass SendCoinsRecipient (208 bytes) and CConnman::Options (168 bytes) by reference (master...pass-big-parameters-by-reference) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10964
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2932017-07-31T16:05:15 <BlueMatt> #8330 could get a merge, tbh, its a free few-10s-of-k memory win
2942017-07-31T16:05:17 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/8330 | Structure Packing Optimizations in C{,Mutable}Transaction by JeremyRubin · Pull Request #8330 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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3242017-07-31T17:51:24 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #10965: Use the noexcept specifier (C++11) instead of deprecated throw() (master...noexcept) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10965
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3352017-07-31T18:50:37 <achow101> whoever runs the doxygen site at dev.visucore.com needs to update their ssl cert. it expired this morning and I can't access it
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3372017-07-31T18:51:54 <MarcoFalke> wumpus: ^
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3392017-07-31T18:53:27 <MarcoFalke> It is issued by let's encrypt... I thought the point of that CA was that such updates are automatically done
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3492017-07-31T19:19:45 <sipa> MarcoFalke: they have automated the procedure for renewal to almost nothing, but there is stipl some script you need to run (potentially in a cronjob)
3502017-07-31T19:19:52 <sipa> wumpus: ^
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3862017-07-31T21:40:08 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag opened pull request #10966: Add walletnotify functional test (master...2017-07-walletnotify-functional-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/10966
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