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512018-09-20T05:29:57 <kanzure> will be missing upcoming thursday meeting due to travel
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652018-09-20T06:56:29 <wumpus> rc4 binaries up https://bitcoincore.org/bin/bitcoin-core-0.17.0/test.rc4/
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1062018-09-20T10:47:08 <Arvidt> Is it on purpose, that the SHA256SUMs file in https://bitcoincore.org/bin/bitcoin-core-0.17.0/test.rc4/ is now named SHA256SUMS instead of SHA256SUMS.asc like it used to be named in the past? Because I have a download script and that looks for the file SHA256SUMS.asc to verfiy the download and the script does fail now because of missing signature file.
1072018-09-20T10:47:23 <wumpus> without libc you cannot expect any binaries for linux to work, I doubt something like flatpak or appimage would help
1082018-09-20T10:47:47 <wumpus> Arvidt: uhm, no, that's not on purpose, looks like I didn't upload the signed asc
1092018-09-20T10:47:58 <wumpus> Arvidt: thanks for the reminder
1102018-09-20T10:52:12 <Arvidt> wumpus: OK maybe there is missing a release algorithm documentation to be able to cleanly reproduce/make a release, to prevent something is forgotten/mistaken like in this case?
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1122018-09-20T10:54:45 <wumpus> Arvidt: should be fixed now
1132018-09-20T10:58:57 <Arvidt> In the file there are signatures for bitcoin-0.10.4rc1 !
1142018-09-20T11:04:40 *** treebeardd has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1152018-09-20T11:04:53 <wumpus> right. now it has the correct ones.
1162018-09-20T11:10:45 <provoostenator> cfields: will sign as soon as I remember what the "please run gbuild --upgrade" error was about again...
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1182018-09-20T11:18:58 <Arvidt> wumpus: Issue is fixed now, download could be verified as usual.
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1242018-09-20T11:50:15 <fanquake> If anyone is interested, I've posted a simple guide to using gitian-builder directly on macOS: https://github.com/fanquake/core-review/tree/master/gitian-building
1252018-09-20T11:50:24 <fanquake> (follow up from a few days ago)
1262018-09-20T11:50:55 <fanquake> I've been using this method for all the recent builds.
1272018-09-20T11:52:09 <provoostenator> Nice, I'll try that after the Mojave update...
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1302018-09-20T11:54:34 <yep555> will there be an rc5?
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1322018-09-20T12:00:29 <fanquake> yep555 Should be, as there are still a few issues outstanding for 0.17.0 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/33
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1612018-09-20T14:19:24 <ott0disk> Hello is there a way to use the 'generate' RPC deterministically (during a functional test of course)?
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1642018-09-20T14:27:18 <michagogo> provoostenator: I just always use âupgrade
1652018-09-20T14:27:46 <michagogo> And I have a script I run every so often to upgrade the base image
1662018-09-20T14:28:17 <provoostenator> I remember that not working a while ago, but will try again next time. This time I just nuked the images and ran it again.
1672018-09-20T14:28:34 <provoostenator> It would be nice if it just did that automatically.
1682018-09-20T14:28:37 <michagogo> Heh, I guess that works tooâ¦
1692018-09-20T14:29:40 <michagogo> Yeah, I guess maybe they think you might want to have a consistent environment and not upgrade any of the base packages unless you say so
1702018-09-20T14:30:03 <michagogo> Or maybe they assume you donât want to spend the time to upgrade each time
1712018-09-20T14:30:30 <michagogo> Or something
1722018-09-20T14:30:44 <michagogo> ð¤·
1732018-09-20T14:31:38 <michagogo> At this point I have the whole thing automated
1742018-09-20T14:34:34 <michagogo> I just kick off one script with the version and the targets (usually all) and it does it all, including creating the PR
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1762018-09-20T14:35:12 <provoostenator> 0.14.3 release notes (etc) ready for review in #14279
1772018-09-20T14:35:14 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14279 | 0.14.3 release notes, manpage and version bump by Sjors · Pull Request #14279 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1782018-09-20T14:42:43 <promag> jnewbery: do you think BitcoinTestFramework should be used/extended to support bitcoin-wallet-tool tests?
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1952018-09-20T15:52:15 <jnewbery> promag: I'd say it's probably better to keep them separate if possible. Take a look at the bitcoin-tx tests in test/util. Tests for bitcoin-wallet-tool should probably go in there.
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2052018-09-20T16:39:02 <wumpus> I agree
2062018-09-20T16:39:30 <wumpus> although, in this case you might need bitcoind to create/populate the wallet in the first place
2072018-09-20T16:40:13 <wumpus> so it integrates somewhat more closely with the existing tests that bitcoin-tx which is an independend utility
2082018-09-20T16:40:49 <wumpus> and as soon as you need bitcoind and RPC, integrating it into the test framework makes much more sense
2092018-09-20T16:40:57 <wumpus> otherwise you'll end up duplicating functionality
2102018-09-20T16:41:16 <wumpus> promag isn't even here is he
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2162018-09-20T16:46:14 <promag> wumpus: jnewbery: sorry, catching up
2172018-09-20T16:46:37 *** MTennis has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
2182018-09-20T16:47:03 <promag> to test against running nodes I'm extending BitcoinTestFramework
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2222018-09-20T17:12:03 <promag> bbl
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2242018-09-20T17:16:15 <wumpus> * [new tag] v0.14.3 -> v0.14.3
2252018-09-20T17:16:33 <midnightmagic> \o/
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2312018-09-20T17:48:32 <jnewbery> wumpus: promag: yes, that makes sense. If you need a bitcoind to create the wallet, then it makes sense to incorporate the tests into the functional test framework
2322018-09-20T17:49:36 <jnewbery> (although I am a little concerned about the tendency for the functional test framework to keep on expanding forever)
2332018-09-20T17:55:26 <wumpus> I'm more concerned with adding more utilities to bitcoin core than the test framework expanding to test them
2342018-09-20T17:55:44 <wumpus> at least the tests should skip if built without the utility, I suppose
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2362018-09-20T18:10:54 <MarcoFalke> We can always try to refactor it later if it becomes an issue. Refactoring solves all issues I heard.
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2412018-09-20T18:32:19 <wumpus> heh
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2432018-09-20T18:33:44 <wumpus> that explains the large amount of refactoring...
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2482018-09-20T18:57:40 <MarcoFalke> meeting in 3?
2492018-09-20T18:58:44 <luke-jr> no, 2
2502018-09-20T18:59:03 <sipa> no, 1
2512018-09-20T18:59:31 <luke-jr> I see you were just waiting for the minute to change for posting that!
2522018-09-20T18:59:48 <sipa> actually, no, i just switched to this terminal when the clock was already ":59"
2532018-09-20T18:59:49 <luke-jr> :p
2542018-09-20T19:00:28 <MarcoFalke> 0
2552018-09-20T19:00:35 * luke-jr pokes wumpus
2562018-09-20T19:00:36 <sdaftuar> hi
2572018-09-20T19:00:39 <jonasschnelli> hi
2582018-09-20T19:00:40 <luke-jr> don't make us off-by-one!
2592018-09-20T19:00:49 <MarcoFalke> off-by-negative-one
2602018-09-20T19:00:57 <luke-jr> :x
2612018-09-20T19:01:04 <MarcoFalke> topic proposals:
2622018-09-20T19:01:06 <MarcoFalke> short topic: Delete 0.10.* executables from bitcoincore.org
2632018-09-20T19:01:12 <MarcoFalke> short topic: Add GitHub pull request template
2642018-09-20T19:01:40 <sipa> wumpus: ^
2652018-09-20T19:01:43 <MarcoFalke> But I think first topic is 0.17.0?
2662018-09-20T19:01:58 <achow101> hi
2672018-09-20T19:02:24 <wumpus> #startmeeting
2682018-09-20T19:02:24 <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 20 19:02:24 2018 UTC. The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
2692018-09-20T19:02:24 <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
2702018-09-20T19:02:24 <MarcoFalke> I think anyone can be the host that knows the commands for the meeting bot?
2712018-09-20T19:02:29 <MarcoFalke> ah
2722018-09-20T19:02:46 <wumpus> #topic 0.17.0
2732018-09-20T19:02:50 <meshcollider> Hi
2742018-09-20T19:03:29 <MarcoFalke> I think two of the issues in the milestone are just release-notes related
2752018-09-20T19:03:39 <wumpus> anything specific you want to discuss about it?
2762018-09-20T19:03:57 <wumpus> correct, the only real still-open issue is achow101 's PR
2772018-09-20T19:04:01 <gmaxwell> I think we should probably just get 0.17 out soon, and even slip the PSBT fix to 0.17.1 to be done soon after.
2782018-09-20T19:04:09 <wumpus> yes,agree
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2802018-09-20T19:04:44 <gmaxwell> it's unfortunately that PSBT is hobbled in 0.17, but considering bugfix upgrades we'll be better off not delaying due to a new feature that is kinda expiremental in any case... and probably has other bugs.
2812018-09-20T19:04:49 <promag> hi
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2832018-09-20T19:05:49 <sipa> i'm not sure it's a very common workflow that triggers (importing a p2sh-segwit address without known pubkey, and then trying to sign on an offline system)
2842018-09-20T19:05:59 <sipa> it just happened to be the first thing i tried
2852018-09-20T19:06:14 <gmaxwell> I think it's like _the_ obvious workflow... if you happen to be using embedded segwit. :P
2862018-09-20T19:06:36 <wumpus> so, all in all it depends on why people want to upgrade to 0.17.0
2872018-09-20T19:06:40 <gmaxwell> Can we provide workaround instructions that have people import the redeemscript?
2882018-09-20T19:06:40 <luke-jr> we just released 0.16.3; is there a reason to rush 0.17 now?
2892018-09-20T19:06:49 <wumpus> if a properly working PSBT is very important, we should delay the release for it
2902018-09-20T19:06:52 <luke-jr> people who really want it can always use a rc
2912018-09-20T19:06:55 <sipa> gmaxwell: or another roundtrip; i'll write up a workaround
2922018-09-20T19:07:00 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: It's 0.1 higher.
2932018-09-20T19:07:09 <wumpus> if PSBT is seen as an curious experimental feature, then not so much
2942018-09-20T19:07:16 <gmaxwell> Since PSBT is new I don't think it's important if it works at all.
2952018-09-20T19:07:18 <wumpus> I don't have a clear perspective on that
2962018-09-20T19:07:19 <sipa> gmaxwell: it's 0.7 higher :)
2972018-09-20T19:07:24 <sdaftuar> gmaxwell: i agree with that
2982018-09-20T19:08:08 <morcos> i also would rather document the shortcomings of PSBT and proceed with the release.
2992018-09-20T19:08:09 <achow101> I think it is fine to release as is and do the fix for .1 later
3002018-09-20T19:08:15 <wumpus> don't really want complaints like 'so you released 0.17.0 but it's useless as the PSBT we've been waiting for is useless'
3012018-09-20T19:08:17 <gmaxwell> I think cosmically PSBT is important, but it's fine if we get it after another month delay or what not.. and it's not broken completely, there is a workaround, and that issue only applies to p2sh-segwit.
3022018-09-20T19:08:36 <achow101> this is fairly edge case imo
3032018-09-20T19:08:44 <MarcoFalke> so action: Merge release notes?
3042018-09-20T19:08:54 *** clarkmoody has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3052018-09-20T19:09:06 <wumpus> but that's not the gut feeling I have about it, and I'm okay with tagging 0.17.0 final next week when no new problems come up
3062018-09-20T19:09:22 <gmaxwell> It's also not the only shortcoming of PSBT as is... e.g. the txou-scan + spend workflow is kind of a mess for non-segwit outputs as I was lamenting in here a few weeks ago. (not as easily fixed)
3072018-09-20T19:09:36 <promag> make it experimental like scantxoutset?
3082018-09-20T19:09:45 <wumpus> right, PSBT is bound to have more problems that will come up when other users start using it
3092018-09-20T19:09:52 <gmaxwell> I don't think it needs to be marked more expiremental.
3102018-09-20T19:09:54 <wumpus> there will likely need to be a 0.17.1 for other reasons
3112018-09-20T19:10:01 <sipa> i don't think we should be waving 'experimental' as a label as a way to avoid responsibility in creating decent interfaces
3122018-09-20T19:10:11 <wumpus> we could disable it completely.
3132018-09-20T19:10:13 <sipa> it's there to indicate that changes are possible in the future
3142018-09-20T19:10:13 <gmaxwell> scantxoutset is marked expiremental in particular because the interface isn't stable.
3152018-09-20T19:10:32 <wumpus> just disable the methods, make PSBT entirely miss 0.17.0
3162018-09-20T19:10:35 <promag> rpc cycle experimental -> stable -> deprecated :P
3172018-09-20T19:10:56 <sipa> i think it's fine to release 0.17.0 as-is now
3182018-09-20T19:11:00 <wumpus> but only if you think releasing as-is is "avoiding responsibility"
3192018-09-20T19:11:08 <gmaxwell> wumpus: I don't see how doing that, in this case, would make anyone better off. I would agree if it was like "PSBT could surprise crash, or eat your coins" or whatnot.
3202018-09-20T19:11:26 <wumpus> gmaxwell: it was because of sipa's working
3212018-09-20T19:11:28 <wumpus> wording*
3222018-09-20T19:11:32 <luke-jr> [19:10:32] <wumpus> just disable the methods, make PSBT entirely miss 0.17.0 <-- IMO better to just delay 0.17 a bit
3232018-09-20T19:11:37 <gmaxwell> But in this case, it's just "this very specific sequence of actions in this specific use case just doesn't work"
3242018-09-20T19:11:46 <sipa> wumpus: no, i'm just a bit annoyed with the "we could always mark things experimental!" response to things that don't work - not specific to this issue
3252018-09-20T19:11:47 <achow101> I think 0.17 is fine to release as is
3262018-09-20T19:11:50 <sipa> this is minor enough
3272018-09-20T19:12:03 <wumpus> sipa: well it's quite common for software to have 'known issues' with releases
3282018-09-20T19:12:07 <morcos> we have a precedent of release notes with a Known Bugs section
3292018-09-20T19:12:11 <promag> luke-jr: remove features in RC?
3302018-09-20T19:12:13 <sipa> wumpus: right, that's far more honest :)
3312018-09-20T19:12:13 <morcos> damn i type too slow
3322018-09-20T19:12:19 <gmaxwell> yea, for this it's fine.
3332018-09-20T19:12:19 <wumpus> at some point ,a release needs to be cut, in spite of everything
3342018-09-20T19:12:33 *** earlz has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3352018-09-20T19:12:41 <luke-jr> promag: not necessarily in general, but in this specific case
3362018-09-20T19:12:55 <gmaxwell> Sometimes a known issue is severe enough you need to disable the functionality, but not here. And expiremental isn't the right concept: it's not that PSBT is going to change its interface in an incompatible way, it just has some bugs.
3372018-09-20T19:12:57 <luke-jr> promag: no reason to rush 0.17, and fixing it shouldn't delay long
3382018-09-20T19:13:01 <wumpus> but I agree removing features should be left for when something is dangerously broken
3392018-09-20T19:13:35 <wumpus> but the fact that this discussion keeps coming back indicates to me that most people just want 0.17.0 out, for other reasons than PSBT
3402018-09-20T19:13:38 <promag> we want people to try it+, but in a responsible way, so experimental sounds fine to me
3412018-09-20T19:13:47 <gmaxwell> For use we're using expiremental to get functionality out when the remaining issue is some debate (or incompleteness) in the interface, and where we figure people are better off having it, even if the interface isn't stable yet.
3422018-09-20T19:14:20 <sipa> psbt is not experimental; its workflows or interfaces aren't changing, nor is there a security issue
3432018-09-20T19:14:22 <gmaxwell> because we found that we were delaying good features because "interfaces-are-forever".
3442018-09-20T19:14:36 <wumpus> right
3452018-09-20T19:14:40 <sipa> there's just a bug that prevents it from working in an edge case that can be worked around, which will be fixed soon
3462018-09-20T19:15:06 <gmaxwell> and 0.17 has a lot of fantastic improvements that people should get their hands on.
3472018-09-20T19:15:08 <earlz> What's the best way to privately report a security problem in bitcoin core?
3482018-09-20T19:15:10 <promag> sipa: experimental can also mean incomplete, or not entirely tested or finished?
3492018-09-20T19:15:28 <sipa> earlz: security@bitcoincore.org
3502018-09-20T19:15:29 <wumpus> earlz: gpg-signed mail to maintainers
3512018-09-20T19:15:40 <luke-jr> gpg encrypted, not signed.
3522018-09-20T19:15:44 <sipa> i care more about gpg-encrypted than signed :)
3532018-09-20T19:15:46 <earlz> Thanks
3542018-09-20T19:15:48 <wumpus> eh yes, sorry , encrypted
3552018-09-20T19:16:05 <gmaxwell> earlz: https://bitcoincore.org/en/contact/ has the info.
3562018-09-20T19:16:43 * luke-jr wonders if earlz's question should be considered in the context of the meeting topic
3572018-09-20T19:17:04 <gmaxwell> please don't discuss security issues on irc.
3582018-09-20T19:17:04 <wumpus> #topic Delete 0.10.* executables from bitcoincore.org
3592018-09-20T19:17:13 <MarcoFalke> Similar to how the branches were deleted from the GitHub git mirror (https://bitcoincore.org/en/meetings/2018/05/03/#delete-08-09-and-010-git-branches), we should delete executables that are long EOL.
3602018-09-20T19:17:17 <luke-jr> rather move than delete
3612018-09-20T19:17:18 <MarcoFalke> bitcoincore.org is mostly concerned about distributing working, tested and non-vulnerable software versions of Bitcoin Core. The site should not serve as an archive of binary blobs. Note that releases before 0.10.0 are already not offered as download on https://bitcoincore.org/bin/.
3622018-09-20T19:17:40 <wumpus> yes, would rather move to an "old_dont_use" directory
3632018-09-20T19:17:40 <gmaxwell> wumpus: it's really useful to have old executable archived somewhere. It's often hard to _build_ old versions because of @#$@ dependency changes.
3642018-09-20T19:17:57 <wumpus> gmaxwell: I agree
3652018-09-20T19:18:03 <wumpus> deleting isn't necssary, I think
3662018-09-20T19:18:11 <jonasschnelli> Agree
3672018-09-20T19:18:32 <MarcoFalke> Then, we should also put up the 0.8 and earlier versions?
3682018-09-20T19:18:46 <wumpus> we do!
3692018-09-20T19:18:52 <MarcoFalke> Oh I din't know
3702018-09-20T19:19:01 <luke-jr> https://bitcoincore.org/bin/insecure/ has back to 0.8.6
3712018-09-20T19:19:19 <luke-jr> â¦and copies of 0.10 it seems
3722018-09-20T19:19:26 <gmaxwell> probably anything that doesn't enforce all current consensus rules should be in a old_dont_use directory.
3732018-09-20T19:19:47 <sipa> so 0.13.1 ?
3742018-09-20T19:19:53 <wumpus> when bitcoincore.org started hosting executables I think I copied everything from bitcoin.org
3752018-09-20T19:20:28 <gmaxwell> sipa: has it been that long, ... I guess so.
3762018-09-20T19:20:41 <wumpus> ok with me
3772018-09-20T19:20:41 <sipa> nearly 2 years.
3782018-09-20T19:21:16 <MarcoFalke> Hmm https://bitcoincore.org/bin/bitcoin-core-0.10.4/ seems empty
3792018-09-20T19:21:35 <wumpus> MarcoFalke: yes, that version was never released
3802018-09-20T19:21:39 <MarcoFalke> But yeah, moving is fine if developers still use the binaries
3812018-09-20T19:21:52 <MarcoFalke> Oh I remember we had this chat
3822018-09-20T19:21:58 <luke-jr> FWIW, I do have various old versions archived on https://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/bitcoind/
3832018-09-20T19:22:19 <wumpus> there was an rc for 0.10.4 at some point AFAIK that's why the directory exists
3842018-09-20T19:22:28 <MarcoFalke> Ah
3852018-09-20T19:22:32 <gmaxwell> in any case action is to move but don't delete old versions? and at least anything that isn't current with the current consensus rules?
3862018-09-20T19:22:40 <sdaftuar> 0.13 is past end-of-life, so i think it should be considered "old_dont_use" as well
3872018-09-20T19:22:55 <wumpus> gmaxwell: yes I think so
3882018-09-20T19:23:28 <wumpus> MarcoFalke: rcs for old releases used to be deleted because of disk space constraints on bitcoin.org, don't know if bitcoincore.org has the same problem
3892018-09-20T19:24:13 <gmaxwell> sdaftuar: also old don't use due to not having the crash fix.
3902018-09-20T19:25:13 <wumpus> isn't 0.14 the first release with the crash bug?
3912018-09-20T19:25:29 <sdaftuar> wumpus: yes
3922018-09-20T19:25:59 <wumpus> #topic Add GitHub pull request template (MarcoFalke)
3932018-09-20T19:26:12 <MarcoFalke> There are sometimes pull requests that do simple stylistic refactoring without obvious advantages to either users or developers. The GitHub pull request template would remind contributors that they need to provide clear rationale for these refactoring changes
3942018-09-20T19:26:26 <wumpus> yes please
3952018-09-20T19:26:32 <jnewbery> ACK
3962018-09-20T19:26:34 <sdaftuar> +1
3972018-09-20T19:26:37 <jamesob> +1. thoughts on test coverage requirements?
3982018-09-20T19:26:44 <cfields> and a benchmark if it's intended to be an optimization
3992018-09-20T19:26:47 <MarcoFalke> I'd just wanted to ask people to look at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14217
4002018-09-20T19:26:50 <MarcoFalke> and leave feedback
4012018-09-20T19:27:01 <sdaftuar> jamesob: i think it's always good to encourage PR openers and reviewers to ensure there's test coverage!
4022018-09-20T19:27:06 <gmaxwell> 12:26:44 < cfields> and a benchmark if it's intended to be an optimization
4032018-09-20T19:27:08 <MarcoFalke> jamesob: In the future, a bot could automatically close refactoring pull requests without rationale or missing test coverage.
4042018-09-20T19:27:11 <wumpus> cfields: right
4052018-09-20T19:27:20 <gmaxwell> I also worry about things that are intended to be 'cleanup' that make things slower.
4062018-09-20T19:27:34 <wumpus> #action review https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/14217
4072018-09-20T19:27:54 <MarcoFalke> At least we have some monitoring to detect obvious slowdowns after merge
4082018-09-20T19:28:02 <gmaxwell> See for example arvid's removal of INLINE that sipa commented on-- which actually seems to be okay, but its the sort of thing that could result in massive performance regressions.
4092018-09-20T19:28:05 <MarcoFalke> Though, would be good to get the signal before merge
4102018-09-20T19:28:19 <wumpus> gmaxwell: yes...
4112018-09-20T19:28:27 <gmaxwell> MarcoFalke: yes, but it looks like it wasn't running very frequently which also makes it hard to tell which commit(s) did it.
4122018-09-20T19:28:43 <gmaxwell> so perhaps my concern is best fixed by just improving the monitoring.
4132018-09-20T19:28:48 <MarcoFalke> It runs about once a day, but we had some downtime last month
4142018-09-20T19:28:54 <wumpus> that's another cleanup I really don't care for, for what it's worth
4152018-09-20T19:29:02 <jamesob> gmaxwell: bitcoinperf shouldn't be down that long again
4162018-09-20T19:29:05 <gmaxwell> OKAY
4172018-09-20T19:29:22 <gmaxwell> Would it be possible to get it to run on each PR merge even if it falls behind?
4182018-09-20T19:29:43 <MarcoFalke> The basic stuff for sure
4192018-09-20T19:29:43 <jamesob> that's a lotta compute, but it's something I'm thinking about - and will have time to work on after the next month or so
4202018-09-20T19:29:50 <MarcoFalke> IBD is the hardest
4212018-09-20T19:30:11 <wumpus> could at least check whether cpp/h files were changed !
4222018-09-20T19:30:33 <gmaxwell> I think it's silly for us to be bound on compute.
4232018-09-20T19:30:36 <wumpus> it seems completely unnecessary to run it after a documentation change
4242018-09-20T19:30:39 *** hebasto has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4252018-09-20T19:30:40 <sdaftuar> gmaxwell: agreed
4262018-09-20T19:30:58 <gmaxwell> indeed, skipping pointless changes is good... but ultimately if we need a rack of computers to keep up with it, we should be able to get that.
4272018-09-20T19:31:15 <wumpus> no one is stopping anyone from doing that, no :)
4282018-09-20T19:31:55 <sipa> consistent performance numbers do need identical hardware etc
4292018-09-20T19:31:58 <wumpus> could even run it on PRs
4302018-09-20T19:32:00 <sipa> if you want to parallellize
4312018-09-20T19:32:09 <wumpus> yes
4322018-09-20T19:32:21 <gmaxwell> In absence of someone doing it we probably shouldn't just keep a commit flux that we can't adequately test though, and checking for perf regressions is part of it.
4332018-09-20T19:32:24 <wumpus> it's kind of more expensive than what travis does, VMs would be useless for this
4342018-09-20T19:32:35 <gmaxwell> indeed.
4352018-09-20T19:33:42 <wumpus> in any case, I'm all for discouraging useless refactoring changes
4362018-09-20T19:33:52 <wumpus> it sometimes feels like I'm the only person pushing back against them
4372018-09-20T19:34:08 <jonasschnelli> no.. i'm with you
4382018-09-20T19:35:49 <wumpus> any other topics?
4392018-09-20T19:37:11 <wumpus> if not, I'm going to close the meeting and go to bed, need to get up very early tomorrow for my flight
4402018-09-20T19:37:12 <cfields> I'm back full-time, still catching up. Please ping me if you have anything that was waiting for me or that I should get to quickly.
4412018-09-20T19:37:19 <sipa> wumpus: safe travels
4422018-09-20T19:37:29 <wumpus> cfields: welcome back !
4432018-09-20T19:37:41 <jonasschnelli> cfields: great to hear!
4442018-09-20T19:37:47 <wumpus> sipa: thank you
4452018-09-20T19:38:00 <promag> cheers
4462018-09-20T19:38:12 <MarcoFalke> safe travels!
4472018-09-20T19:38:15 <luke-jr> cfields: I think I have at least one PR wumpus wanted you to look at, but no rush
4482018-09-20T19:39:05 <MarcoFalke> proposed action: end meeting
4492018-09-20T19:39:24 <promag> regarding practicalswift (are you here?), I think he should build something like bitcoinacks.com
4502018-09-20T19:39:24 <sipa> ack
4512018-09-20T19:39:35 <wumpus> #endmeeting
4522018-09-20T19:39:35 <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Sep 20 19:39:35 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
4532018-09-20T19:39:35 <lightningbot> Minutes: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-09-20-19.02.html
4542018-09-20T19:39:35 <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-09-20-19.02.txt
4552018-09-20T19:39:35 <lightningbot> Log: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2018/bitcoin-core-dev.2018-09-20-19.02.log.html
4562018-09-20T19:39:37 <promag> but for his tools
4572018-09-20T19:40:09 <cfields> luke-jr: roger
4582018-09-20T19:41:07 <promag> jnewbery: should I open a PR to discuss the wallet tool test?
4592018-09-20T19:41:50 *** treebeardd has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4602018-09-20T19:42:39 <provoostenator> Argh, timezones, sorry I missed the party/meeting.
4612018-09-20T19:43:27 <jnewbery> promag: I think you could just oen a PR for a test for bitcoin-wallet-tool, including the commit from 13926. I expect any test would be merged as part of the original PR, but discussion of the tests can be in your new PR.
4622018-09-20T19:44:26 *** paracyst has quit IRC
4632018-09-20T19:44:35 <promag> yap
4642018-09-20T19:44:54 *** paracyst has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4652018-09-20T19:45:02 <luke-jr> (I wish I could suggest new tools just get a new repo of their own, but I think in this case it's not practical :x )
4662018-09-20T19:45:15 *** tryphe has quit IRC
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4682018-09-20T19:50:24 <wumpus> indeed, that's not practical in this case, the whole point in this case is to share the low-level code with the wallet
4692018-09-20T19:51:43 <wumpus> and it makes sense to ship it, every database worth its salt also comes with at least one recovery tool
4702018-09-20T19:52:03 *** michaelsdunn1 has quit IRC
4712018-09-20T19:53:30 <provoostenator> Fwiw compiling back to 0.5 isn't that hard, last time I tried: https://gist.github.com/Sjors/70f14baf1f834f3547bf35553faff610
4722018-09-20T19:55:02 <luke-jr> I wonder if the gitian sigs still match
4732018-09-20T19:56:14 <jcorgan> provoostenator: if you set the timezone for the meeting to Reykjavik it will always be correct. I think that's the only country that uses GMT all year.
4742018-09-20T19:56:59 <sipa> (nit: Reykjavik is not a country)
4752018-09-20T19:57:03 <jcorgan> sure, sure
4762018-09-20T19:58:06 <provoostenator> jcorgan: my calender worked fine, I just ignored it
4772018-09-20T19:58:11 <luke-jr> some calendar won't let you just set UTC?
4782018-09-20T19:58:13 <jcorgan> heh
4792018-09-20T19:58:19 <jcorgan> i don't think google does
4802018-09-20T19:58:21 <sipa> luke-jr: google calendar
4812018-09-20T20:00:17 <provoostenator> Can we get signed binaries for 0.15.2?
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4872018-09-20T20:22:57 <clarkmoody> exit
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4892018-09-20T20:23:11 <treyzania> nice
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4922018-09-20T20:46:09 <michagogo> Um, I'm looking at a `git diff v0.14.2..v0.14.3`
4932018-09-20T20:46:27 <michagogo> This version seems to introduce a whole bunch of typos o_O
4942018-09-20T20:48:51 <michagogo> Oh, looks like it's actually all in one file: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/r7TtkcBE/
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