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342019-07-05T01:19:10 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #16339: doc: add reduce-memory.md (master...doc-reduce-memory-usage) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16339
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372019-07-05T01:19:57 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/dfdcb3dfe535...1088b90cbae3
382019-07-05T01:19:58 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1ac454a Hennadii Stepanov: Enable ShellCheck rules
392019-07-05T01:20:00 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1088b90 fanquake: Merge #16327: scripts and tools: Update ShellCheck linter
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422019-07-05T01:20:57 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #16327: scripts and tools: Update ShellCheck linter (master...20190702-shellcheck) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16327
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522019-07-05T01:55:21 <luke-jr> re AVX512, someone mentioned using it causes CPUs to overheat and clock down? so even a simple benchmark might not work out :/
532019-07-05T01:56:46 <sipa> luke-jr: using avx512 instructions on some cpus causes it to clock down; nothing related to overheating
542019-07-05T01:58:10 <luke-jr> hm, even just using it once?
552019-07-05T01:58:40 <luke-jr> so it'd break parallel benchmarking, but not serial (not sure parallel was even viable to begin with)
562019-07-05T02:01:09 <sipa> how much it clocks down depends on how many cores you're using it simultaneously
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592019-07-05T02:09:55 <jb55> why does it do that... overheating protection?
602019-07-05T02:10:20 <jb55> seems weird
612019-07-05T02:10:31 <luke-jr> sounds like overheat protection to me too :x
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632019-07-05T02:10:41 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1088b90cbae3...4f378ac30cf6
642019-07-05T02:10:42 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 08c721d nicolas.dorier: [MSVC] Copy build output to src/ automatically after build
652019-07-05T02:10:42 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4f378ac fanquake: Merge #16308: [MSVC] Copy build output to src/ automatically after build
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682019-07-05T02:11:50 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #16308: [MSVC] Copy build output to src/ automatically after build (master...build/copy-in-msbuild) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16308
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702019-07-05T02:13:44 <jb55> googling avx512 throttling returns this https://lemire.me/blog/2018/08/15/the-dangers-of-avx-512-throttling-a-3-impact/
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882019-07-05T03:01:34 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #16341: Introduce ScriptPubKeyMan interface and use it for key and script management (aka wallet boxes) (master...box-the-wallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16341
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902019-07-05T03:02:20 <achow101> meshcollider: ^^
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952019-07-05T03:14:05 <meshcollider> \o/
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982019-07-05T03:22:59 <meshcollider> 86 commits lol
992019-07-05T03:23:06 <meshcollider> That'll be really fun to review
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1012019-07-05T03:25:00 <achow101> A lot of them are really small
1022019-07-05T03:25:12 <achow101> So I'll be squashing them
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1042019-07-05T03:30:39 <jb55> https://github.blog/2019-07-01-mark-files-as-viewed/ haven't tried this yet, I wish it was for hunks/commits instead of files
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1072019-07-05T03:34:35 <tryphe> jb55, i noticed that feature and was wondering if they get unmarked as viewed if there are modified changes
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1092019-07-05T03:36:44 <hebasto> tryphe: yes, they get unmarked.
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1112019-07-05T03:37:31 <tryphe> hebasto++
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1212019-07-05T04:08:45 <fanquake> probably worth asking jamesob if he's seen any issues with CPUs overheating while benchmarking the AVX512 PR.
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1252019-07-05T04:18:40 <fanquake> I've had a look over the build system changes in that PR, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/13989#issuecomment-508623934, but don't have a machine that supports AVX512 to test any performance improvements on.
1262019-07-05T04:19:17 <jb55> achow101: fwiw I don't think those need squashed, they seem like reasonable sized commits to me
1272019-07-05T04:19:19 <fanquake> sipa It'd be great to have you or cfields take another look over, or Concept ACK / NACK that PR.
1282019-07-05T04:20:26 <jb55> achow101: actually I appreciate that they are cleanly separated, makes review easier, at least for me.
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1382019-07-05T04:53:26 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns opened pull request #16342: Backport #16250 for 0.18 (0.18...201906-signrawerror-regression-018) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16342
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1672019-07-05T07:35:32 <fanquake> promag: thanks
1682019-07-05T07:36:04 <promag> fanquake: np!
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2472019-07-05T11:17:49 <fanquake> wumpus could you take a look at 13989, even just a concept ACK / NACK ?
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2882019-07-05T13:04:24 <wumpus> fanquake: sure!
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3122019-07-05T14:43:53 <jamesob> fanquake: nah, benchmarked the avx512 PR mayber twice (for a total of ~2 hours runtime) and didn't see any cpu heat problems. But that was on a desktop machine that's well cooled
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3142019-07-05T14:46:08 <wumpus> where does that concern come from? is that a known issue that using AVX512 heats up CPUs more than other instructions?
3152019-07-05T14:48:04 <fanquake> wumpus: 09:55:22 <luke-jr> re AVX512, someone mentioned using it causes CPUs to overheat and clock down? so even a simple benchmark might not work out :/
3162019-07-05T14:48:27 <fanquake> jamesob: cheers ð
3172019-07-05T14:49:03 <wumpus> ok
3182019-07-05T14:50:10 <fanquake> wumpus: although see the replies above, supposedly itâs actually just clocking down.
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3212019-07-05T14:51:00 <wumpus> I think in practice it's hard to ascribe heating to certain instructions, bitcoind validation has always been a risky workload for computers with bad heat management
3222019-07-05T14:52:19 <wumpus> hhmm apparently it's really a thing that people from cloudflare etc have writetn about https://lemire.me/blog/2018/08/13/the-dangers-of-avx-512-throttling-myth-or-reality/
3232019-07-05T14:52:44 <wumpus> thanks intel !
3242019-07-05T14:53:23 <promag> what is the min qt currently?
3252019-07-05T14:53:24 <wumpus> in any case if you disable AVX512 on a system this will cause bitcoind to not use it too
3262019-07-05T14:53:36 <fanquake> promag: should be 5.5.1
3272019-07-05T14:53:42 <wumpus> and newer / properly cooled chips might still benefit from it
3282019-07-05T14:53:43 <promag> thanks
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3302019-07-05T14:54:53 <wumpus> then again, I'm always a bit skeptical with using the newest instruction set extensions for hashing etc, probably, the kind of CPUs that have this are fast enough to not be bottlenecked by hashing in the first place
3312019-07-05T14:55:15 <wumpus> it probably pays off more to use special instructions on lower end hardware
3322019-07-05T14:55:24 <promag> wumpus: good point
3332019-07-05T14:59:33 <wumpus> why is no one doing this for ARM? :)
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3372019-07-05T15:00:19 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors closed pull request #15424: [wallet] wallet-tool: command to remove key metadata (master...2019/02/wallet_tool_remove_metadata) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15424
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3502019-07-05T15:11:39 <provoostenator> Random review beg #15457 for fans of sandboxed operating systems.
3512019-07-05T15:11:41 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15457 | Check std::system for -[alert|block|wallet]notify by Sjors · Pull Request #15457 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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3542019-07-05T15:19:59 <wumpus> provoostenator: thanks, kind of lost track of that one
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3572019-07-05T15:34:47 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/4f378ac30cf6...8c69fae94410
3582019-07-05T15:34:48 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c1c91bb Sjors Provoost: [build] detect std::system or ::wsystem
3592019-07-05T15:34:48 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cc3ad56 Sjors Provoost: [build] MSVC: set HAVE_SYSTEM for desktop apps
3602019-07-05T15:34:48 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f874e14 Sjors Provoost: [build]: check std::system for -[alert|block|wallet]notify
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3632019-07-05T15:35:21 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #15457: Check std::system for -[alert|block|wallet]notify (master...2019/02/std__system) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15457
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3652019-07-05T15:35:54 <provoostenator> wumpus: thanks!
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3822019-07-05T16:35:37 <emilengler> I currently have problems with bitcoin-cli to read an integer value on a new command I've implemented
3832019-07-05T16:35:43 <emilengler> With the JSONRPC however it works fine
3842019-07-05T16:36:06 <emilengler> bitcoin-cli says "JSON value is not an integer as expected"
3852019-07-05T16:36:26 <emilengler> Can someone help me?
3862019-07-05T16:37:50 *** lightlike has quit IRC
3872019-07-05T16:39:46 <sipa> emilengler: bitcoin-cli knows which arguments to treat as strings and which as json
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3892019-07-05T16:39:57 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors opened pull request #16344: [build]: use #if HAVE_SYSTEM instead of defined(HAVE_SYSTEM) (master...2019/07/system-ifdef) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16344
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3912019-07-05T16:40:27 <provoostenator> ^ sorry for the case of "this refactor can't possibly hurt"
3922019-07-05T16:41:21 <sipa> emilengler: if that information is wrong, if you write 5 on the command line, it will be sent in json-rpc as the string "5" rather than the integer 5
3932019-07-05T16:41:47 <emilengler> sipa: Thanks for letting me know but how does "generatetoaddress" solves the problem?
3942019-07-05T16:42:01 <emilengler> There the first argument is an integer
3952019-07-05T16:42:46 <sipa> bitcoin-cli knows that the first argument to generatetoaddress is to be interpreted as json instead of as a string
3962019-07-05T16:43:36 <emilengler> sipa: Ok, thank you I will take a look at it
3972019-07-05T16:44:34 <provoostenator> emilengler: it does that here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/rpc/client.cpp#L31
3982019-07-05T16:44:59 <sipa> yup
3992019-07-05T16:45:25 <emilengler> provoostenator, that was exactly what I was looking for, thanks
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4012019-07-05T16:47:12 <emilengler> Thanks, it works now :)
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4112019-07-05T17:16:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] emilengler opened pull request #16345: RPC: Add getblockbyheight (master...getblockbyheight) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16345
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4192019-07-05T17:41:07 <wumpus> provoostenator: I had kind of assumed you'd have tested #15457 on a sandboxed system (I didn't have any available)
4202019-07-05T17:41:11 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15457 | Check std::system for -[alert|block|wallet]notify by Sjors · Pull Request #15457 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4212019-07-05T17:41:42 <provoostenator> wumpus: I did, but apparently not after that last change (or I did, but somehow missed the issue anyway).
4222019-07-05T17:44:48 <provoostenator> Meanwhile I have a bit more experience linking C(++) libraries in iOs, which means with a bit of luck I might be able to actually test running stuff, not just compiling.
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4312019-07-05T18:05:23 <wumpus> provoostenator: awesome!
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4422019-07-05T18:58:57 <meshcollider> There's a wallet meeting scheduled for today but considering the low turnout for the meeting yesterday, does anyone want to discuss anything?
4432019-07-05T18:59:14 <wumpus> it's no longer freedom day at least
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4452019-07-05T19:00:00 <sipa> i could give a bit of an update on miniscript if people are interested
4462019-07-05T19:00:18 <achow101> wallet meeting?
4472019-07-05T19:00:58 <meshcollider> #startmeeting
4482019-07-05T19:00:58 <lightningbot> Meeting started Fri Jul 5 19:00:58 2019 UTC. The chair is meshcollider. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
4492019-07-05T19:00:58 <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
4502019-07-05T19:01:04 <meshcollider> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball
4512019-07-05T19:01:09 <achow101> all I have to say is that #16341 does the wallet restructure and is very large
4522019-07-05T19:01:11 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16341 | Introduce ScriptPubKeyMan interface and use it for key and script management (aka wallet boxes) by achow101 · Pull Request #16341 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4532019-07-05T19:01:11 <provoostenator> hi
4542019-07-05T19:01:32 <provoostenator> achow101: the infamous box? I'll add to my review list.
4552019-07-05T19:01:35 <meshcollider> #topic miniscript update (sipa)
4562019-07-05T19:01:40 <schmidty> hola
4572019-07-05T19:01:41 <sipa> hi!
4582019-07-05T19:02:46 <sipa> so me and some colleagues of mine have been working on a way to make more complex bitcoin scripts more accessible, in a project called miniscript
4592019-07-05T19:03:19 <sipa> this is about the bitcoin scirpt language as it exists today, without any softforks or other changes to consensus needed (but obviously prepared for those)
4602019-07-05T19:05:03 <sipa> the idea is that we can define a subset of script which is composable (so things can be arbitrarily nested, say you can replace a public key anywhere with a "subexpression" which corresponds to an arbitrary policy), has properties like correctness and nonmalleability that can be easily reasoned about, and can be targetted by a compiler that converts policies into scripts
4612019-07-05T19:05:32 <sipa> with this, we could make software/hardware wallets support basically arbitrary policies, without even any extensions to psbt
4622019-07-05T19:06:07 <sipa> there's a website which is still actively being changed: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/miniscript
4632019-07-05T19:06:30 <sipa> does this make sense?
4642019-07-05T19:07:10 <achow101> sipa: is your website the only documentation of miniscript?
4652019-07-05T19:07:30 <sipa> achow101: andrew and sanket are also working on a rust implementation, which is public i think
4662019-07-05T19:07:44 <sipa> but as we're actively changing things yet i prefer to not really have any production code available
4672019-07-05T19:09:13 <meshcollider> This seems very nice
4682019-07-05T19:09:13 <sipa> so the different moving parts would be (a) signing logic in core/other software which is miniscript compatible, allowing signing/updating of any valid miniscript-compatible script (b) extension to descriptors that lets you include miniscript expressions, which are kinda engineer-readable but maybe a bit less than descriptors are now... (c) a compiler from policies with probabilities for all
4692019-07-05T19:09:20 <sipa> branches/choices to miniscript descriptors
4702019-07-05T19:09:48 <jb55> I see the aor was replaced with explicit probabilities, is that overkill or are there use cases in mind?
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4722019-07-05T19:10:11 <sipa> jb55: it was basically impossible to write a 3-way or where each branch is equally likely
4732019-07-05T19:10:32 <jb55> ah
4742019-07-05T19:10:50 <sipa> oh we also came up with a neat algorithm that lets you compute the worst-case satisfaction cost for a miniscript, with annotations on various branches saying "this key is certainly available, this key will not be available at signing time, this key may be available at signing time"
4752019-07-05T19:10:53 *** surja795 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4762019-07-05T19:10:59 <sipa> which is useful for fee estimation
4772019-07-05T19:11:28 *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4782019-07-05T19:11:28 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipsorcery closed pull request #15995: systemd service script: set usable permissions on /etc/bitcoin config dir (master...systemdconfig) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15995
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4802019-07-05T19:11:30 <sipa> and the compiler is also good enough now that it can construct scripts that are strictly better than the bolt 3 htlc scripts... but obviously incompatible with them
4812019-07-05T19:12:04 <sipa> it'd be nice to support all actual script people have come up with in the past, but it would require adding a whole bunch of ad-hoc extensions for weird tricks
4822019-07-05T19:13:25 <achow101> cool! how close to being finalized do you think it is?
4832019-07-05T19:13:32 <achow101> (aka when pr?)
4842019-07-05T19:13:46 <sipa> i think we're very close to finalizing the design of the language... but we've been saying that for a few weeks now
4852019-07-05T19:14:04 <sipa> it'll be some work to convert the hacky code to something PR'able
4862019-07-05T19:14:08 <sipa> but i hope soon
4872019-07-05T19:14:55 <sipa> so a motivation for this is for example being able to use a 2-of-3-timelocked-escrow-cool policy as a "participant" in a multisig, rather than being restricted to just keys in the multisig
4882019-07-05T19:16:04 <sipa> more questions? otherwise end topic
4892019-07-05T19:16:30 <achow101> the policy language is descriptors, right?
4902019-07-05T19:16:50 <sipa> nope
4912019-07-05T19:17:25 <sipa> the thing i envision becoming part of descriptors is a 1-to-1 mapping with script itself
4922019-07-05T19:17:47 <sipa> so there is no "compilation" step between the descriptor and the script, as that compilation is pretty complex
4932019-07-05T19:18:20 <achow101> is it policy -> descriptor -> script?
4942019-07-05T19:18:22 <sipa> so the policy language is similar, but it has probabilities in it, and only has and/or/threshold/key/hash/time functions
4952019-07-05T19:18:29 <sipa> policy -> descriptor <-> script
4962019-07-05T19:18:51 <achow101> ah, ok
4972019-07-05T19:18:56 <sipa> while the descriptor extensions have a ton of different ways of encoding an and/or, depending on context, probabilities, ...
4982019-07-05T19:19:39 <sipa> i don't expect the policy language and the compiler to become part of core,
4992019-07-05T19:20:26 <sipa> though maybe some analysis functionality may be (e.g. we can extract a policy without probabilities back from the script etc)
5002019-07-05T19:20:43 <meshcollider> So what are you planning to PR then?
5012019-07-05T19:21:08 <sipa> ability to sign/update/psbt arbitrary miniscript compatible scripts
5022019-07-05T19:21:11 <sipa> and extensions to descriptors
5032019-07-05T19:21:33 <achow101> basically replacing the solver and ProduceSignature?
5042019-07-05T19:22:00 <achow101> so instead of pattern matching to figure out how to sign and finalize, interpret miniscript/descriptors
5052019-07-05T19:22:05 <sipa> right
5062019-07-05T19:22:17 <sipa> maybe all of the signing code can become delegated to a miniscript module
5072019-07-05T19:22:45 <sipa> maybe the existing rawtransaction-compatible ones should just stay as legacy code, and only miniscript code gets invoked for more complex things
5082019-07-05T19:23:20 <achow101> and with native descriptor wallets, people will be able to track whatever weird scripts they want and be able to sign for them
5092019-07-05T19:23:47 <sipa> the conversion from script to miniscript structure is basically an LALR(1) parser (we have a handwritten one that's easier to read, but tools like bison/yacc can generate code to do this trivially)
5102019-07-05T19:24:11 <sipa> yup
5112019-07-05T19:24:28 <sipa> and with psbt, you can have even hardware wallets in theory participate in signing
5122019-07-05T19:24:46 <sipa> though they may freak out with the unconventional scripts, and change detection becomes a lot harder
5132019-07-05T19:25:03 <jb55> sipa: is the conversion from script to policy ever ambiguous?
5142019-07-05T19:25:11 <jb55> if that makes sense
5152019-07-05T19:25:41 <sipa> jb55: if you define an "abstract policy" which is a policy but without probabilities in it, you can always derive the abstract policy from a script
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5172019-07-05T19:26:03 <meshcollider> Ah that LALR parser point answered my next question
5182019-07-05T19:26:04 <sipa> in such a way that it's equivalent to the policy fed to the compiler
5192019-07-05T19:26:43 <jb55> sipa: and that is guaranteed to be unique?
5202019-07-05T19:26:43 <sipa> jb55: though if the compiler gets a lot smarter, this may not be possible anymore (e.g. complex reasoning over booleans/threshold gates to simplify the policy before compiler)
5212019-07-05T19:27:15 <sipa> jb55: testing whether two different encodings of the same abstract policy are identical for arbitrary policies is an intractable problem
5222019-07-05T19:27:56 <sipa> like and(a,thresh(2,a,b,c)) is identical to and(a,or(b,c))
5232019-07-05T19:28:08 <sipa> things like that cannot be generally compared
5242019-07-05T19:28:28 <sipa> but the compiler (so far) won't ever make such transitions
5252019-07-05T19:29:13 <jb55> right
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5272019-07-05T19:32:50 <meshcollider> Alright this seems very nice, thank you sipa, I need some time to read the website in more detail
5282019-07-05T19:33:12 <meshcollider> Does anyone have any other topics to discuss today?
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5312019-07-05T19:34:17 <achow101> please review wallet boxes and the 3 PRs it depends on
5322019-07-05T19:34:47 <meshcollider> Yes ^ sorry I haven't reviewed much yet, it's been a crazy week
5332019-07-05T19:36:36 <meshcollider> #action review wallet box PRs
5342019-07-05T19:36:41 <meshcollider> #endmeeting
5352019-07-05T19:36:41 <lightningbot> Meeting ended Fri Jul 5 19:36:41 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
5362019-07-05T19:36:41 <lightningbot> Minutes: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-07-05-19.00.html
5372019-07-05T19:36:41 <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-07-05-19.00.txt
5382019-07-05T19:36:41 <lightningbot> Log: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-07-05-19.00.log.html
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5442019-07-05T20:00:50 <pinheadmz> I have a question about RBF implementation / BIP125 rules: Just seems like these two cases are redundant:
5452019-07-05T20:01:02 <pinheadmz> bad-txns-spends-conflicting-tx
5462019-07-05T20:01:03 <pinheadmz> replacement-adds-unconfirmed
5472019-07-05T20:01:42 <pinheadmz> The first error is thrown if you spend an output that will be replaced
5482019-07-05T20:01:55 <pinheadmz> but the second doesnt allow the replacement to spend any unconf outputs anyway - already
5492019-07-05T20:03:42 <pinheadmz> so if the second case was jsut checked first, there'd be no need for the first case ...?
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5582019-07-05T21:08:13 <luke-jr> pinheadmz: they're fundamentally different issues
5592019-07-05T21:08:32 <luke-jr> pinheadmz: the second one is (hypothetically, in a PR, and in Knots) overrideable
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5652019-07-05T21:29:27 <pinheadmz> luke-jr: thanks, I get it now. The first is definitely invalid, the second is more like a policy
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5672019-07-05T21:31:00 <luke-jr> right
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