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 122019-10-26T00:29:06  <jeremyrubin> Hey
 132019-10-26T00:29:12  <jeremyrubin> I think I found a bug in DynamicUsage
 142019-10-26T00:29:25  <jeremyrubin> for unordered_map and unordered_set
 152019-10-26T00:29:56  <jeremyrubin> The STL on my machine does an optimization where there's always one bucket (like a prevector)
 162019-10-26T00:30:28  <jeremyrubin> This leads to double counting when you have a larger map
 172019-10-26T00:30:49  <jeremyrubin> Trying to think of a x-platform way to deal with it...
 182019-10-26T00:32:07  <jeremyrubin> this sounds like a thing for sipa to look at :)
 192019-10-26T00:34:21  <jeremyrubin> This leads to a nasty-ish bug where when you're trying to track the internal memory of things, you can get an accounting deficit
 202019-10-26T00:35:25  <sipa> jeremyrubin: DynamicUsage is inevitaby an approximation on some sysyems
 212019-10-26T00:36:11  <sipa> improvememts welcome of course, but it's not possible in general (i think) to exactly know the size of data structures every STL implementation uses
 222019-10-26T00:36:23  <sipa> i guess maybe with a custom allocator it could
 232019-10-26T00:36:26  <jeremyrubin> One reasonable solution then is to use bucket_count -1
 242019-10-26T00:36:59  <sipa> hmm, using a custom allocator to trakc this stuff should be easy
 252019-10-26T00:37:10  <jeremyrubin> It will only ever be "off by one" so shouldn't matter too much, but would accurately report 0 allocation for a newly created set
 262019-10-26T00:37:24  <jeremyrubin> sipa: I looked at that I don't think it is
 272019-10-26T00:37:42  <jeremyrubin> but could be wrong
 282019-10-26T00:44:07  <jeremyrubin> I guess something like bucket_count() - (bucket_count() == 1)
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 322019-10-26T00:57:57  <jeremyrubin> confirm that that approach fixes *my problem* :)
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 372019-10-26T01:32:19  <luke-jr> sipa: sizeof?
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 402019-10-26T01:37:05  <jeremyrubin> sizeof?
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 422019-10-26T01:37:40  <luke-jr> whatever size STL uses, you should be able to get usage using sizeof I would think
 432019-10-26T01:39:22  <jeremyrubin> huh
 442019-10-26T01:39:26  <jeremyrubin> I don't think so
 452019-10-26T01:39:36  <luke-jr> why not?
 462019-10-26T01:39:38  <jeremyrubin> So you want to know the size on the stack
 472019-10-26T01:39:43  <jeremyrubin> you use sizeof
 482019-10-26T01:39:54  <jeremyrubin> but what we want to know is the size of the allocation
 492019-10-26T01:40:45  <jeremyrubin> And the reason it's difficult is because there's no way to tell if elements claimed by bucket_count() are on the stack or in the allocation
 502019-10-26T01:41:02  <jeremyrubin> When you create a new unordered_map, bucket_count() is not nesc 0
 512019-10-26T01:41:15  <jeremyrubin> e.g., implementations can optimize a pre-allocated bucket
 522019-10-26T01:41:33  <jeremyrubin> that is a pointer for a single bucket that, once allocated, becomes the pointer for the allocation
 532019-10-26T01:41:36  <jeremyrubin> or something like that
 542019-10-26T01:43:04  <luke-jr> &(&object)[1] - &object ?
 552019-10-26T01:44:49  <jeremyrubin> where object is what?
 562019-10-26T01:47:44  <jeremyrubin> the map may be empty...
 572019-10-26T01:52:33  <sipa> luke-jr: you don't know what the map allocates
 582019-10-26T01:52:53  <luke-jr> hmm
 592019-10-26T01:52:53  <sipa> it may allocate a struct { yourtype a; metadata b } object
 602019-10-26T01:53:04  <sipa> or it may allocate those in arrays
 612019-10-26T01:53:15  <luke-jr> C++ should add something :p
 622019-10-26T01:53:21  <sipa> well, allocators
 632019-10-26T01:53:45  <sipa> they let you observe the allocations STL containers make (and modify their behabior?
 642019-10-26T01:53:49  <sipa> )
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 662019-10-26T01:55:21  <luke-jr> hmm
 672019-10-26T01:55:32  <jeremyrubin> I think I heard there's an issue with allocators being assumed to be copyable or something funky like that, which can mess with collecting stats from one
 682019-10-26T01:55:37  <jeremyrubin> But I don't recall what the issue is
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1142019-10-26T05:16:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #17261: Make ScriptPubKeyMan an actual interface and the wallet to have multiple (master...wallet-box-pr-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17261
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1232019-10-26T06:00:25  <achow101> ryanofsky: I remember now, the unique_ptr signingprovider commit was for descriptor wallets to work
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1502019-10-26T08:54:25  <wumpus> cfields: that's how I meant "giving up"; to find out that there's no elegent cross-platform solution for something in C++, and that boost works pretty ok for the case
1512019-10-26T08:57:04  <wumpus> it's not preferable to boost to end up with maintaining reams of platform-specific compatibility code, or complex general algorithms such as date/time transformations
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1542019-10-26T09:09:33  <wumpus> maybe "Boost->C++11 migration" is just a misnomer,it's clear it's not possible yet, even with C++20 I think think it replaced all of our boost usage
1552019-10-26T09:09:45  <wumpus> I *don't* think
1562019-10-26T09:11:47  <wumpus> possilby it'd be better to close that as an active project and add "Don't use boost for new code, when remotely possible." to the developer notes and call it a day
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1722019-10-26T09:49:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 12 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/25d7e2e78137...d91af4768c1c
1732019-10-26T09:49:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 67328bb fanquake: build: remove protobuf from depends
1742019-10-26T09:49:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1cb9a4e fanquake: docs: remove protobuf from docs
1752019-10-26T09:49:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3548e4a fanquake: Remove BIP70 Support
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1782019-10-26T09:49:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17165: Remove BIP70 support (master...remove_bip70) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17165
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1812019-10-26T09:50:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d91af4768c1c...e9f73b839ad9
1822019-10-26T09:50:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6b6be41 João Barbosa: gui: Make polling in ClientModel asynchronous
1832019-10-26T09:50:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e9f73b8 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17135: gui: Make polling in ClientModel asynchronous
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1862019-10-26T09:50:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17135: gui: Make polling in ClientModel asynchronous (master...2019-10-fix-gui-freeze) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17135
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1912019-10-26T09:54:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to 0.19: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5b68d1654f07...0f6f7a574a4e
1922019-10-26T09:54:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 d5c36ce João Barbosa: gui: Make polling in ClientModel asynchronous
1932019-10-26T09:54:36  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 0f6f7a5 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17252: 0.19: gui: Make polling in ClientModel asynchronous
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1962019-10-26T09:54:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17252: 0.19: gui: Make polling in ClientModel asynchronous (0.19...2019-10-backport-17135) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17252
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2012019-10-26T10:05:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e9f73b839ad9...3f875744cb61
2022019-10-26T10:05:40  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a592913 Jan Beich: http: add missing header bootlegged by boost < 1.72
2032019-10-26T10:05:41  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3f87574 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17249: rpc: Add missing deque include to fix build
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2062019-10-26T10:06:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17249: rpc: Add missing deque include to fix build (master...boost) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17249
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2092019-10-26T10:10:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors opened pull request #17264: [rpc] set default bip32derivs to true for psbt methods (master...2019/10/bip32_derivs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17264
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2182019-10-26T10:31:20  <wumpus> #proposedmeetingtopic close Boost → C++11 migration project for now
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2312019-10-26T11:00:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3f875744cb61...9bd109b78d93
2322019-10-26T11:00:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a8f5026 João Barbosa: gui: Fix start timer from non QThread
2332019-10-26T11:00:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9bd109b Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17120: gui: Fix start timer from non QThread
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2362019-10-26T11:01:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17120: gui: Fix start timer from non QThread (master...2019-10-fix-timer) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17120
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2412019-10-26T11:03:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to 0.19: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/0f6f7a574a4e...e39c9cff1a62
2422019-10-26T11:03:31  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 8082b38 Jan Beich: http: add missing header bootlegged by boost < 1.72
2432019-10-26T11:03:32  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 e39c9cf João Barbosa: gui: Fix start timer from non QThread
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2472019-10-26T11:06:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9bd109b78d93...be50469217bd
2482019-10-26T11:06:46  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e156b9d fanquake: gui: disable font antialiasing for QR image address
2492019-10-26T11:06:46  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master be50469 Wladimir J. van der Laan: Merge #17257: gui: disable font antialiasing for QR image address
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2522019-10-26T11:07:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #17257: gui: disable font antialiasing for QR image address (master...disable_qr_font_antialiasing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17257
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2572019-10-26T11:07:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 1 commit to 0.19: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e39c9cff1a62...eb5a899d5a97
2582019-10-26T11:07:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 eb5a899 fanquake: gui: disable font antialiasing for QR image address
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2602019-10-26T11:08:10  <wumpus> looks like things are ready, tagging 0.19.0rc2 in a bit
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2642019-10-26T11:14:19  <JeremyCrookshank> :)
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2772019-10-26T11:45:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] BlockMechanic closed pull request #17078: Android depends (master...android-depends) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17078
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3042019-10-26T13:35:32  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed tag v0.19.0rc2: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.19.0rc2
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3072019-10-26T13:37:01  <fanquake> 🚀
3082019-10-26T13:40:12  <emilengler> 🎉
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3182019-10-26T14:14:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #17265: [WIP] Remove OpenSSL (master...remove_openssl) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17265
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3382019-10-26T15:29:02  <fanquake> pushed some rc2 sigs up https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gitian.sigs/pull/1118
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3652019-10-26T16:50:54  <cfields> wumpus: forgot version bump? :)
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3772019-10-26T17:23:15  <wumpus> cfields: oh no...
3782019-10-26T17:23:31  <wumpus> we really need a way to detect this
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3832019-10-26T17:28:13  <wumpus> there used to be a time when the rc was auto-detected from the tag
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3852019-10-26T17:28:55  <wumpus> I'm still not really used to this way
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3882019-10-26T17:30:20  <wumpus> anyhow rc2 is dead, will do a rc3
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3902019-10-26T17:32:54  <provoostenator> Long live rc3!
3912019-10-26T17:35:06  <wumpus> hehe
3922019-10-26T17:35:16  <fanquake> 😭
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3962019-10-26T17:39:49  <achow101> would it be possible to add a travis job for tags only that checks version number against tag?
3972019-10-26T17:41:44  <ghost43> you can do   if: tag IS present
3982019-10-26T17:49:33  <wumpus> by that time it's too late
3992019-10-26T17:50:28  <wumpus> I think I'm going to add a script to maintainer tools to do the tagging, and also the version bump
4002019-10-26T17:50:51  <achow101> git pre-push hook?
4012019-10-26T17:51:53  <wumpus> meh
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4032019-10-26T17:53:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to 0.19: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/eb5a899d5a97...7358ae6d71cd
4042019-10-26T17:53:29  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 f6aab42 Wladimir J. van der Laan: build: bump version to rc3
4052019-10-26T17:53:30  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.19 7358ae6 Wladimir J. van der Laan: gui: rc3 translations update
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4082019-10-26T17:59:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed tag v0.19.0rc3: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.19.0rc3
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4112019-10-26T18:00:30  <luke-jr> Subversion had a token that would be replaced with commit info in checkouts..
4122019-10-26T18:00:35  <luke-jr> I think git might have something similar
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4142019-10-26T18:02:06  <luke-jr> can't remember the term to find it tho
4152019-10-26T18:07:28  <wumpus> I need to make a tagging script anyway (also to automatically set the Tree-SHA512:)
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4172019-10-26T18:13:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] elichai opened pull request #17266:  Rename DecodeDumpTime to ParseISO8601DateTime (master...2019-10-FormatISO8601DateTime) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17266
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4202019-10-26T18:13:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] elichai closed pull request #17245: wallet: Remove Boost from DecodeDumpTime (master...2019-10-DecodeDumpTime) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17245
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4352019-10-26T18:51:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag closed pull request #17133: 0.19: gui: Fix start timer from non QThread (0.19...2019-10-backport-17120) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17133
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4392019-10-26T18:52:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] nijynot opened pull request #17267: bench: Fix negative values and zero for -evals flag (master...fix/eval) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17267
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4872019-10-26T20:49:10  <elichai2> sipa: Hi, if you're free to expand on the logic/source of this idea I'm really curious to know about it :) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15224
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4952019-10-26T20:56:28  <sipa> elichai2: it's a source of entropy on its own (by timing periodically during a slow computation), plus it strengthens the existing entrooy
4962019-10-26T20:57:10  <sipa> as in: if there is not much entropy in there already, attacking will become a multiplication factor slower for an attacker to try anything
4972019-10-26T20:57:32  <sipa> similar to pbkdf2 for passwords
4982019-10-26T20:59:03  <elichai2> but these are passwords, usually words (easily bruteforcable with dictionaries). not sure attacking bad entropy of randomness is done via brute forcing (I honestly don't know. that's why I'm asking)
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5022019-10-26T21:02:30  <elichai2> I'm just wondering if adding complexity without obvious advantages is a good thing or not in the RNG world.  but for me "entropy" is still a bit of a magic word so curious to hear your thoughts :)
5032019-10-26T21:03:04  <sipa> entropy is actually the wrong term to use, as it's a concept from information theory
5042019-10-26T21:03:32  <sipa> and we care about computational complexity for an attacker, not just whether the information is there in the first place
5052019-10-26T21:04:40  <sipa> but say an attacker knows somehow that all the previous entropy sources we used only have 2^32 possible combinations, he can try all of them, and see if the output of the RNG for any of those seeds matches the observed behavior of the node (or say, generated keys)
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5072019-10-26T21:05:08  <sipa> and there strengthening could be the difference between possible and impossible
5082019-10-26T21:05:28  <sipa> but it is defense in depth. if the entropy sources before work as expected, it is unnecessary
5092019-10-26T21:07:15  <elichai2> but don't you decrease the entropy by introducing the chances of collisions of the PRF multiplied by the times you run the function on it?
5102019-10-26T21:07:32  <sipa> no
5112019-10-26T21:07:35  <elichai2> (i.e. SHA256 can have collisions even in 256bit inputs)
5122019-10-26T21:08:50  <sipa> there is a very theoretical (and only relevant when you're actually talking about entropy and not computation necessary for attack) reduction in entropy when you have a 256-bit state with actually 256 bits of entropy, and you sha256 it repeatedly
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5142019-10-26T21:09:09  <sipa> and it only reduces things to slightly below 256 bits
5152019-10-26T21:09:23  <sipa> however, that's not even what we're doing here
5162019-10-26T21:09:53  <sipa> we extract 256 bits of entropy from the state, repeatedly hash it, and then mix the result back into the state... using a 512-bit hash function
5172019-10-26T21:10:36  <sipa> how many bits the strengthening uses is pretty much immaterial; it could be just 64 bits too, probably... as we don't replace the entire state with the outcome
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5192019-10-26T21:10:56  <sipa> it just so happens that we have super optimized sha256 code, so we'd like to use it increase the advantage over an attacker
5202019-10-26T21:12:39  <elichai2> That makes a bit more sense to me. I thought it's rehasing the data into itself. but looking again at the code it's obvious that's not what it's doing
5212019-10-26T21:14:09  <sipa> no, it doesn't even hold the rng lock during the stengthening
5222019-10-26T21:14:25  <sipa> other entropy may be added to it in the mean time too
5232019-10-26T21:14:32  <sipa> s/entropy/randomness/
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5272019-10-26T21:22:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] JeremyRubin opened pull request #17268: Epoch Mempool (master...mempool-experiments-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17268
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5332019-10-26T21:40:10  <elichai2> sipa: Thanks :)
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