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252019-11-07T01:16:26 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jkczyz opened pull request #17399: validation: Templatize ValidationState instead of subclassing (master...2019-11-validation-state) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17399
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282019-11-07T01:42:52 <sipa> https://ci.appveyor.com/project/DrahtBot/bitcoin/builds/28674639
292019-11-07T01:43:09 <sipa> bech32_tests.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "bool __cdecl CaseInsensitiveEqual(class std::basic_string<char,struct std::char_traits<char>,class std::allocator<char> > const &,class std::basic_string<char,struct std::char_traits<char>,class std::allocator<char> > const &)"
302019-11-07T01:43:15 <sipa> is this a known issue?
312019-11-07T01:54:44 <lightlike> sipa: yes, see #17384 - all appveyor builds are currently failing (except the one in 17384 :-) )
322019-11-07T01:54:46 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17384 | test: Create new test library by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #17384 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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1352019-11-07T10:19:51 <promag> jonatack: hi, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17283/files#diff-df7d84ff2f53fcb2a0dc15a3a51e55ceR949
1362019-11-07T10:20:02 <promag> Why "an"?
1372019-11-07T10:22:05 <real_or_random> promag: "nrequired" starts with a vowel sound
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1392019-11-07T10:22:58 <real_or_random> try to pronounce it
1402019-11-07T10:31:21 <promag> real_or_random: oh thats a rule? ok then ð¤·
1412019-11-07T10:31:47 <promag> ty
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1432019-11-07T10:54:03 <jonatack> promag: yes, what real_or_random said. See discussion at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16047#discussion_r285628201
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1452019-11-07T10:55:10 <jonatack> er, that link is the inverse case :)
1462019-11-07T10:56:38 <wumpus> I tend to get that wrong too, it's a very difficult rule for non native speakers of English
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1502019-11-07T11:25:38 <jonatack> I agree it can look strange to read
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1522019-11-07T11:43:48 <wumpus> for 30 years of so I was blissfully unaware and based a/an on the simple letter-based heuristic, it worked enough for people to never complain
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1622019-11-07T12:22:53 <elichai2> Still have some problems but look at build no. 3 :) https://travis-ci.org/elichai/bitcoin/builds/608703220
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1662019-11-07T12:28:24 <wumpus> elichai2: you've added a native ppc build? nice
1672019-11-07T12:29:07 <elichai2> yep. it's kinda undocumented, so we might need to allow it to fail (altough it works on my repos), still have some problems with the docker. but it's pretty cool
1682019-11-07T12:29:43 <wumpus> so they have actual POWER servers running builds? sounds expensive :)
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1702019-11-07T12:31:23 <elichai2> wumpus: either that or a bunch of emulation stuff
1712019-11-07T12:31:50 <wumpus> for ARM it's not hard to believe it's real native
1722019-11-07T12:51:21 <luke-jr> POWER isn't that expensive either, especially for business..
1732019-11-07T12:51:57 <luke-jr> I built my Talos II for $3k and there's the cheaper Blackbird now
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1772019-11-07T12:54:33 <luke-jr> wumpus: Technically you could always use "an" and just defer to the Tonal number system (where "an" is 1)
1782019-11-07T12:54:47 <elichai2> if any docker wizard has any inputs on what's going on here it'll be appretiated :) (added `set -x` and some docker ls's here and there) https://travis-ci.org/elichai/bitcoin/jobs/608713371#L435
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1802019-11-07T12:59:40 <wumpus> sure, but it's more expensive than x86; ARM is really really cheap so adding that was kind of low-hanging fruit
1812019-11-07T12:59:43 <wumpus> heh yes
1822019-11-07T12:59:56 <wumpus> I don't know anything about docker, sorry
1832019-11-07T13:02:27 <luke-jr> wumpus: I'm sure Travis has way many more x86 than POWER though ;)
1842019-11-07T13:03:21 <luke-jr> (and POWER probably finishes the jobs faster to make up for it!)
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1862019-11-07T13:03:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e65b4160e99f...46fc4d1a24c8
1872019-11-07T13:03:50 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faec282 MarcoFalke: scripted-diff: test: Move setup_common to test library
1882019-11-07T13:03:51 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa4c6fa MarcoFalke: doc: Add documentation for new test/lib
1892019-11-07T13:03:51 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 46fc4d1 MarcoFalke: Merge #17384: test: Create new test library
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1932019-11-07T13:04:18 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #17384: test: Create new test library (master...1911-testLib) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17384
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1972019-11-07T13:13:28 <wumpus> I don't get it, ci/lint/06_script.sh runs subtree checks for various trees, but doesn't import their master branches, how is this supposed to work?
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1992019-11-07T13:14:10 <wumpus> I added a new subtree in #17398 and locally the subtree checks pass, but not on travis, because it doesn't have the commit available
2002019-11-07T13:14:12 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17398 | WIP: build: Update leveldb to 1.22+ by laanwj · Pull Request #17398 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2022019-11-07T13:17:44 <wumpus> ok added an explicit "git fetch https://github.com/google/crc32c.git master" for now, let's see...
2032019-11-07T13:18:41 <wumpus> #proposedmeetingtopic Move subtrees out of src/
2042019-11-07T13:19:24 <wumpus> or at least under a single roo
2052019-11-07T13:20:08 <wumpus> would be a lot easier for linters and doxugen and maintenance scripts and such if there was a single path to ignore
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2072019-11-07T13:25:25 <wumpus> e.g. https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17398/commits/b9b829574c517fcbc0fbcbda67ed667b04a73899 the other option would be to have an unified exclude path, but having to specify it 10+ times is absurd
2082019-11-07T13:26:05 <wumpus> YESS they pass
2092019-11-07T13:31:36 <fanquake> guess we can wait for a bunch of rebases now that #17384 went in
2102019-11-07T13:31:39 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17384 | test: Create new test library by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #17384 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2112019-11-07T13:32:02 <fanquake> Had been ready to merge 17342
2122019-11-07T13:32:24 <wumpus> same
2132019-11-07T13:36:14 <wumpus> ooh the native osx travis build has beer keg emojis, yes it's the first time I look at that
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2152019-11-07T13:36:26 <fanquake> is that in the brew output?
2162019-11-07T13:36:36 <fanquake> We can turn that off if required heh
2172019-11-07T13:36:44 <wumpus> no, let's leave it
2182019-11-07T13:37:03 <fanquake> We can also customize it using HOMEBREW_INSTALL_BADGE
2192019-11-07T13:38:23 <wumpus> "checking for F_FULLFSYNC... no" looks like the detection is somehow not working, fullfsync is a MacOS thing right?
2202019-11-07T13:40:41 <wumpus> oh, I think I understand the issue
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2242019-11-07T13:57:29 <fanquake> wumpus let me know when that PR is "stable" enough to test in various places
2252019-11-07T13:59:32 <wumpus> fanquake: sure; it should work now on linux/windows/osx, though without crc32c acceleration
2262019-11-07T14:00:00 <wumpus> integrating crc32c into the build system is going to be slightly involved, there's various new things (besides sse42 support) that need to be detected
2272019-11-07T14:00:19 <fanquake> wumpus ok. Will do some initial testing on macOS / BSDs
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2292019-11-07T14:00:56 <wumpus> most of the fixes I've pushed in the last hour or so, except for the FULLFSYNC one, were to make linters happy
2302019-11-07T14:01:15 <wumpus> that's how it goes right ...
2312019-11-07T14:01:54 <fanquake> ð
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2332019-11-07T14:02:42 <fanquake> I've been trying to track down the file descriptor discrepancy for the past day or so. Think it's time to give up and dump the info in an issue..
2342019-11-07T14:03:15 <wumpus> that sometimes helps, maybe someone else has ideas
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2422019-11-07T14:14:16 <wumpus> cleaned up the commits; everything besides "build: Update build system for new leveldb" (and the subtree update for src/leveldb) is related to crc32c and not necessary for build at the moment
2432019-11-07T14:14:44 <fanquake> cool
2442019-11-07T14:15:01 <wumpus> (but also shouldn't get in the way; HAVE_CRC32C is hardwired to 0 at the moment)
2452019-11-07T14:15:41 <fanquake> ok
2462019-11-07T14:15:52 <fanquake> are we discussing 0.19.0 release at the meeting this arvo?
2472019-11-07T14:16:05 <wumpus> yes, we should
2482019-11-07T14:16:29 <wumpus> I think it's ready, nothing else has come up with the last rc
2492019-11-07T14:17:04 <fanquake> Yep.
2502019-11-07T14:17:12 <fanquake> One final thing we probably want to do is at least add a note to the release notes in regards to macOS Catalina users having to "right click" and open.
2512019-11-07T14:17:26 <fanquake> Might avoid some potential confusion.
2522019-11-07T14:17:54 <wumpus> yes, definitely
2532019-11-07T14:17:54 <fanquake> That's all I'll say in regards to macOS atm.
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2552019-11-07T14:23:27 <fanquake> Can anyone remember in which PR sdaftuar mined a commit hash to have 6-7 leading 0s ?
2562019-11-07T14:24:30 <fanquake> or it might actually have been marco
2572019-11-07T14:24:32 <aj> fanquake: "git log 000000" should tell you, #13510
2582019-11-07T14:24:34 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13510 | Scripts and tools: Obsolete #!/bin/bash shebang by DesWurstes · Pull Request #13510 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2602019-11-07T14:25:21 <fanquake> aj cheers. Guess I completely mis-remembered
2612019-11-07T14:26:08 <aj> fanquake: marcofalke has a shorter one in #14264 by the looks
2622019-11-07T14:26:11 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14264 | doc: Split depends installation instructions per arch by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #14264 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2642019-11-07T14:27:06 <fanquake> aj thanks for both. 14264 doesn't have any ACK comments, so I'll use 13510
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2732019-11-07T14:47:18 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/46fc4d1a24c8...46e0e276398e
2742019-11-07T14:47:19 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3c84dee Aaron Clauson: Updated appveyor config:
2752019-11-07T14:47:20 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 46e0e27 MarcoFalke: Merge #17364: Updates to appveyor config for VS2019 and Qt5.9.8 + msvc pro...
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2782019-11-07T14:47:38 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #17364: Updates to appveyor config for VS2019 and Qt5.9.8 + msvc project fixes (master...vs2019_oct31) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17364
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2912019-11-07T15:03:45 <elichai2> FIxed the docker problem. I'm now getting `conftest.cpp:32:10: fatal error: sys/endian.h: No such file or directory`
2922019-11-07T15:07:59 <wumpus> sorry, your system is middle-endian so lacks the endian header :-)
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2942019-11-07T15:08:43 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/46e0e276398e...7d14e35f3fb7
2952019-11-07T15:08:43 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d995762 John Newbery: [tests] Don't use TestingSetup in the checkqueue_tests
2962019-11-07T15:08:44 <elichai2> so that's fine? I guess that's not the actual error. there's too much noise, i'll remove the `set -x` now
2972019-11-07T15:08:44 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5506ecf John Newbery: [refactor] Replace global int nScriptCheckThreads with bool
2982019-11-07T15:08:45 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7d14e35 MarcoFalke: Merge #17342: refactor: Clean up nScriptCheckThreads
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3012019-11-07T15:09:01 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #17342: refactor: Clean up nScriptCheckThreads (master...2019-11-nScriptCheckThreads-comment) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17342
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3072019-11-07T15:20:10 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7d14e35f3fb7...772673dfbe70
3082019-11-07T15:20:10 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fae43a9 MarcoFalke: test: Seed test RNG context for each test case, print seed
3092019-11-07T15:20:11 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 772673d MarcoFalke: Merge #16978: test: Seed test RNG context for each test case, print seed
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3122019-11-07T15:20:40 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #16978: test: Seed test RNG context for each test case, print seed (master...1909-testSeed) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16978
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3192019-11-07T15:54:15 <fanquake> #proposedmeetingtopic not so much a topic, but a reminder that if everyone wants to air / dump their GitHub grievances into #15847, I'll be discussing with GH next week
3202019-11-07T15:54:17 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15847 | Feedback for GitHub CEO · Issue #15847 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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3222019-11-07T16:01:32 <elichai2> Getting frustrated. at this point any help would be wellcome. I can't figure out why this test is failing :/ https://travis-ci.org/elichai/bitcoin/jobs/608789848
3232019-11-07T16:01:40 <elichai2> ci script: https://github.com/elichai/bitcoin/blob/2019-11-powerpc64/ci/test/00_setup_env_powerpc64.sh
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3252019-11-07T16:02:59 <fanquake> elichai2 a test, or the depends build of OpenSSL ?
3262019-11-07T16:04:53 <fanquake> We use 'Configure' to configure OpenSSL in depends, looks like it's suggesting to use ./config instead. I'd assume Configure is bombing out for some reason
3272019-11-07T16:05:15 <elichai2> so why will it fail only on here?
3282019-11-07T16:05:39 *** jarthur_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3292019-11-07T16:05:41 <elichai2> (maybe the tests shouldn't use the depends and add the incompatible db flag?)
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3322019-11-07T16:06:37 <fanquake> I'd guess no one has tested a depends build with a powerpc64le-unknown-linux-gnu HOST before, and haven't run into the OpenSSL configure failure
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3342019-11-07T16:08:04 <elichai2> fanquake: what do you think, should I try fighting it (replacing Configure with `./config` or just not use the depends?)
3352019-11-07T16:08:26 <fanquake> elichai2 I'm going to spin up a container and take a quick look in a second.
3362019-11-07T16:08:41 <fanquake> In any case hopefully OpenSSL will be gone soon
3372019-11-07T16:08:58 <elichai2> k. i'll for now try without depends to see if any other erros come up that are more directly related to bitcoin
3382019-11-07T16:11:39 <elichai2> if you have a local container with ppc64le feel free to debug a Docker bug i've found that made me replace `library/ubuntu` with `ppc64le/ubuntu:18.04`
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3562019-11-07T16:53:58 <fanquake> elichai2 I've recreated your issue locally with HOST=powerpc64le-unknown-linux-gnu. OpenSSLs ./Configure fails. ./config detects ppc64le-whatever-linux2 and will configure for linux-generic32
3572019-11-07T16:54:50 <elichai2> fanquake: does that mean it's working, `linux-generic32` doesn't sound good hehe
3582019-11-07T16:55:02 <elichai2> (it's still building with no depends https://travis-ci.org/elichai/bitcoin/jobs/608821982)
3592019-11-07T16:55:07 <fanquake> I assume linux-ppc64 is what we should be passing to ./Configure, but I don't know what detection is failing
3602019-11-07T16:55:20 <fanquake> that openSSL doens't figure that out.
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3622019-11-07T17:00:26 *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3632019-11-07T17:00:27 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/772673dfbe70...270616228bc9
3642019-11-07T17:00:28 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6d50b26 Jon Atack: test: add logging to wallet_avoidreuse.py
3652019-11-07T17:00:28 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0e7c90e Jon Atack: test: speed up wallet_avoidreuse.py
3662019-11-07T17:00:29 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2706162 fanquake: Merge #17362: test: speed up wallet_avoidreuse, add logging
3672019-11-07T17:00:31 *** bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev
3682019-11-07T17:00:44 <elichai2> hmmm `/home/travis/build/elichai/bitcoin/build/bitcoin-powerpc64le-unknown-linux-gnu/src/compat/glibc_compat.cpp:75: undefined reference to `log2f_old'`
3692019-11-07T17:00:46 *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3702019-11-07T17:00:47 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #17362: test: speed up wallet_avoidreuse, add logging (master...wallet_avoidreuse-test-improvements) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17362
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3722019-11-07T17:01:38 <elichai2> oh. we have no ifdef for powerpc
3732019-11-07T17:02:00 <elichai2> I thought luke-jr / BlueMatt are testing/using PowerPC
3742019-11-07T17:04:14 *** laurentmt has quit IRC
3752019-11-07T17:06:18 <elichai2> i'll try dropping `--enable-glibc-back-compat`
3762019-11-07T17:07:23 <BlueMatt> I work daily on ppc64, though I dont daily build bitcoin core
3772019-11-07T17:07:29 <BlueMatt> at least not latest master
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3832019-11-07T17:24:15 <MarcoFalke> #14066 might fix the depends issue
3842019-11-07T17:24:18 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14066 | gitian-linux: Build binaries for 64-bit POWER by luke-jr · Pull Request #14066 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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3902019-11-07T17:45:19 <MarcoFalke> elichai2: The functional tests are a bit slow. You might just disable them for now
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3922019-11-07T17:46:20 <elichai2> MarcoFalke: you're saying the failure is a timeout?
3932019-11-07T17:46:33 <MarcoFalke> you 120 seconds rpc timeout
3942019-11-07T17:46:38 <MarcoFalke> *yeah,
3952019-11-07T17:46:45 <elichai2> it sucks that travis doesn't cache if the build fails :/ I need it to succeed at least once so i'll have faster builds lol
3962019-11-07T17:47:05 <elichai2> MarcoFalke: so I should not run them?
3972019-11-07T17:47:07 <MarcoFalke> https://travis-ci.org/elichai/bitcoin/jobs/608838438#L8203
3982019-11-07T17:47:22 <MarcoFalke> You may also bump the timeouts
3992019-11-07T17:47:48 <elichai2> I guess that's a change to the test framework though?
4002019-11-07T17:47:56 <MarcoFalke> Idk. I kept bumping them for years
4012019-11-07T17:48:00 <elichai2> or is there a env variable?
4022019-11-07T17:48:04 <MarcoFalke> Maybe we should remove the timeout
4032019-11-07T17:48:18 <MarcoFalke> They are hardcoded in the individual test files
4042019-11-07T17:48:28 <elichai2> k. i'll start by making this work *without* functional. so I can open a PR and document what works and what doesn't, and then look into timeouts
4052019-11-07T17:49:01 <MarcoFalke> self.rpc_timeout = 120
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4102019-11-07T17:59:12 <wumpus> elichai2: you're not basing it on luke-jr's PR? I thought that was the idea
4112019-11-07T17:59:39 <elichai2> :O
4122019-11-07T17:59:54 *** Chris_Stewart_5 has quit IRC
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4142019-11-07T18:01:54 <elichai2> #14066?
4152019-11-07T18:01:57 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/14066 | gitian-linux: Build binaries for 64-bit POWER by luke-jr · Pull Request #14066 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4162019-11-07T18:02:01 <wumpus> yes
4172019-11-07T18:02:14 <wumpus> would be nice to have that in for 0.20
4182019-11-07T18:02:59 <elichai2> It's been a year, hmm the only thing there that's related is the glibc_compact. But I assume the CI will increase people's confidence in that PR?
4192019-11-07T18:03:33 *** captjakk has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4202019-11-07T18:04:29 <wumpus> helping test and review it would increase confidence in the PR, just asking because you care about ppc apparently :)
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4232019-11-07T18:06:19 <wumpus> and yes I don't think it makes sense to add a travis run for a platform we don't distribute binaries for
4242019-11-07T18:06:45 *** ExtraCrispy has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4252019-11-07T18:06:59 <wumpus> unless it's a big endian platform, would be nice to have a big-endian travis run no matter what
4262019-11-07T18:07:16 <sipa> wumpus: (not sure where to comment) your leveldb commit 180296c359ba248ae6f2a6094098a22fd31994d6 drops a few 'override' modifiers for no reason, i think
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4282019-11-07T18:07:57 <wumpus> sipa: oh that's not intentional, thanks
4292019-11-07T18:08:44 *** jarthur_ is now known as jarthur
4302019-11-07T18:08:49 <sipa> also in 415ad71a96070dd4989153a800e6fd969269590b's commit message you have a typo in your own name
4312019-11-07T18:08:52 <sipa> (i think!)
4322019-11-07T18:08:58 <elichai2> wumpus: I don't even have ppc, was just excited that I found this new Travis feature, and always looking for ways to contribute :)
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4342019-11-07T18:10:44 <wumpus> sipa: thanks, will fix
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4372019-11-07T18:14:04 <sipa> the patchset for leveldb seems amazingly small now
4382019-11-07T18:14:16 <sipa> and entirely upstreamable?
4392019-11-07T18:16:02 <wumpus> sipa: yes, I think it's eventually upstreamable
4402019-11-07T18:17:03 <sipa> this is great :)
4412019-11-07T18:17:05 <wumpus> already had to make a patch on top on crc32c too, build system related, https://github.com/bitcoin-core/crc32c/commit/a3f2c1c13051d922cef031aec505801462080579 but should be upstreamable too I think
4422019-11-07T18:17:46 <sipa> we're using the cmake buildsystem for crc32c?
4432019-11-07T18:17:53 <wumpus> no :)
4442019-11-07T18:17:58 *** Dogechain has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4452019-11-07T18:18:11 <sipa> then why does your patch modify CMakeLists.txt?
4462019-11-07T18:18:12 <fanquake> Glad we don't have too
4472019-11-07T18:18:26 <wumpus> I've integrated crc32c into the build system in the same way as leveldb, this requires being able to pass defined manually instead of having this .h file
4482019-11-07T18:18:43 <wumpus> because cmake uses that .h.in file to provide configuration
4492019-11-07T18:18:53 <sipa> oh i see, to make sure things don't break for when people build the patched tree using cmake
4502019-11-07T18:18:55 <wumpus> I don't, but don't want to break their buid system...
4512019-11-07T18:18:59 <wumpus> yes
4522019-11-07T18:19:00 <sipa> of course
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4602019-11-07T18:24:30 <wumpus> I have sse42 already working locally (it's not in the PR yet), now trying to get ARM64 crc32c to work
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4622019-11-07T18:25:04 <wumpus> it's easy just have to convert the cmake detection to autoconf (it doesn't help I don't really know either very well though :)
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4642019-11-07T18:25:49 <sipa> nobody does.
4652019-11-07T18:25:51 *** captjakk has quit IRC
4662019-11-07T18:26:00 <wumpus> true.
4672019-11-07T18:26:00 *** captjakk has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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4772019-11-07T18:51:55 <MarcoFalke> is the meeting in 9 minutes?
4782019-11-07T18:52:05 <fanquake> *8 minutes
4792019-11-07T18:53:30 <wumpus> I think so
4802019-11-07T18:53:52 <wumpus> date -u shows it's 18:53 so yea
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4842019-11-07T19:00:29 <wumpus> #startmeeting
4852019-11-07T19:00:29 <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 7 19:00:29 2019 UTC. The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
4862019-11-07T19:00:29 <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
4872019-11-07T19:00:33 <kanzure> hi
4882019-11-07T19:00:39 <gleb> hi
4892019-11-07T19:00:41 <jonatack> bonsoir
4902019-11-07T19:00:51 <jnewbery> hi
4912019-11-07T19:00:56 <dongcarl> saluton
4922019-11-07T19:01:07 <digi_james> hi
4932019-11-07T19:01:07 <fanquake> hi
4942019-11-07T19:01:17 <provoostenator> hi
4952019-11-07T19:01:40 <wumpus> #topic 0.19.0 final
4962019-11-07T19:01:42 <meshcollider> hi
4972019-11-07T19:01:51 <sipa> hi
4982019-11-07T19:02:07 <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james amiti fjahr
4992019-11-07T19:02:09 <wumpus> jeremyrubin lightlike
5002019-11-07T19:02:17 <jamesob> hi
5012019-11-07T19:02:23 <fanquake> #17079 #16996
5022019-11-07T19:02:24 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17079 | v0.19.0 testing · Issue #17079 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5032019-11-07T19:02:25 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16996 | Release process for 0.19.0 · Issue #16996 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5042019-11-07T19:02:42 <fanquake> Does anyone have new issues to report after testing rc3?
5052019-11-07T19:02:49 *** ddustin has quit IRC
5062019-11-07T19:02:49 <wumpus> I haven't heard of any new problems coming up with rc3, so it's probably time to tag final?
5072019-11-07T19:02:51 <instagibbs> hi
5082019-11-07T19:03:16 <fanquake> ACK. I haven't seen anything new either.
5092019-11-07T19:03:26 <achow101> hi
5102019-11-07T19:03:40 <fanquake> Also: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/37
5112019-11-07T19:03:52 <wumpus> well, first moving the release notes back to the branch from the wiki
5122019-11-07T19:04:10 <fanquake> and adding the macOS catalina note
5132019-11-07T19:04:17 <wumpus> so if anyone wants to do any last minute edits in the release notes, now would be the time
5142019-11-07T19:05:34 <MarcoFalke> ship it
5152019-11-07T19:05:49 <wumpus> yess
5162019-11-07T19:05:56 <fanquake> ð
5172019-11-07T19:06:01 <provoostenator> Ship it!
5182019-11-07T19:06:07 <arik_> ð³
5192019-11-07T19:06:33 <wumpus> #topic High priority for review
5202019-11-07T19:06:36 <fanquake> I guess we could shift topics then?
5212019-11-07T19:06:38 <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8
5222019-11-07T19:06:50 <wumpus> 7 blockers, 7 things chasing ACK
5232019-11-07T19:06:58 <wumpus> I think that's already a perfect number so let's move on
5242019-11-07T19:07:14 <BlueMatt> proposed topic: one last question blocking rust progress
5252019-11-07T19:07:33 <wumpus> (anything to add/remove?)
5262019-11-07T19:07:36 <achow101> add #17373 pls
5272019-11-07T19:07:38 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17373 | wallet: Various fixes and cleanup to keypool handling in LegacyScriptPubKeyMan and CWallet by achow101 · Pull Request #17373 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5282019-11-07T19:08:19 <wumpus> achow101: ok, added
5292019-11-07T19:08:24 <fanquake> Only PR I'd suggest adding is #17270. I have some new comments to make there, and think it could be split up to aid review, but could use more eyes regardless.
5302019-11-07T19:08:26 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17270 | Feed environment data into RNG initializers by sipa · Pull Request #17270 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5312019-11-07T19:08:34 <gleb> I think there is some valuable discussion is going on here: #17326. Not sure it's a particularly high-prio, but I think it's worth looking at for whoever missed. It's about whether we should keep (some) p2p connections on a node restart or connect to new peers.
5322019-11-07T19:08:36 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17326 | rfc, p2p: Eclipse attack mitigation · Issue #17326 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5332019-11-07T19:08:58 <gleb> It's not even mine :P
5342019-11-07T19:09:09 <wumpus> it doesn't have to be to propose it
5352019-11-07T19:10:19 <wumpus> but yea, that would be more like a proposed meeting topic than something for review
5362019-11-07T19:10:54 <fanquake> Should we move onto a proposed topic? This might be a quick meeting for once.
5372019-11-07T19:11:18 <fanquake> is nickler or instagibbs here?
5382019-11-07T19:11:18 <gleb> I don't think at this point we need real-time discussion, as long as the conversation is happening there on github. Just wanted to bring a bit attention of everyone.
5392019-11-07T19:11:21 <MarcoFalke> fanquake: https://gist.github.com/moneyball/071d608fdae217c2a6d7c35955881d8a
5402019-11-07T19:11:25 <wumpus> fanquake: I think everyone is already looking at #17270
5412019-11-07T19:11:28 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17270 | Feed environment data into RNG initializers by sipa · Pull Request #17270 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5422019-11-07T19:11:41 <wumpus> happy with adding that to high prio, though
5432019-11-07T19:11:48 <MarcoFalke> Also, wumpus had another topic
5442019-11-07T19:11:57 <wumpus> yes
5452019-11-07T19:12:04 <fanquake> wumpus: if everyone is looking at it, I'm surprised there hasn't been more commentary
5462019-11-07T19:12:15 <wumpus> quite a lot of topics this week, let's move on
5472019-11-07T19:12:35 <wumpus> #topic security email address for bitcoin-core/secp256k1 (nickler)
5482019-11-07T19:12:46 <sipa> real_or_random, nickler: here?
5492019-11-07T19:13:06 <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/secp256k1/pull/679
5502019-11-07T19:13:23 <nickler> hi
5512019-11-07T19:13:44 *** ExtraCrispy has quit IRC
5522019-11-07T19:13:56 <BlueMatt> seems like an easy solution is proposed there: add a list for secp-securiy@bitcoincore.org and add relevant folks to it?
5532019-11-07T19:14:00 <nickler> We're adding a SECURITY.md file to the bitcoin-core/secp256k1 repo and considered secp256k1-security@bitcoincore.org as security email address.Would it be possible to add such an email address? How are we making sure that security contacts will actually get emails forwarded to them? Who can see the content of a vulnerability report if it's sent unencrypted?
5542019-11-07T19:14:01 <BlueMatt> I presume wumpus can do that?
5552019-11-07T19:14:20 <wumpus> yes, I can make a forward address on bitcoin-core.org
5562019-11-07T19:14:27 <BlueMatt> dig +short bitcoincore.org mx
5572019-11-07T19:14:27 <BlueMatt> 10 spool.mail.gandi.net.
5582019-11-07T19:14:27 <wumpus> just tell me who to include
5592019-11-07T19:14:50 <wumpus> doesn't have to be in the meeting :p
5602019-11-07T19:14:53 <nickler> wumpus: cool, will do in private
5612019-11-07T19:15:00 <sipa> we'd need to put it on the bitcoincore.org website as well, i think
5622019-11-07T19:15:09 <sipa> together with gpg keys of some/all of the people involved
5632019-11-07T19:15:19 <wumpus> sure
5642019-11-07T19:15:22 <BlueMatt> sounds good, next topic?
5652019-11-07T19:15:28 *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
5662019-11-07T19:15:28 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] elichai opened pull request #17402: Travis support for PowerPC64 (master...2019-11-powerpc64) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17402
5672019-11-07T19:15:30 *** bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev
5682019-11-07T19:15:49 <wumpus> #topic opt-in SRD (instagibbs)
5692019-11-07T19:16:04 <wumpus> #17331
5702019-11-07T19:16:05 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17331 | Use effective values throughout coin selection by achow101 · Pull Request #17331 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5712019-11-07T19:17:04 <achow101> instagibbs wanted to ask whether we should consider making SRD something that is opt in instead of outright replacing the current knapsacksolver fallback
5722019-11-07T19:17:25 *** watchtower has quit IRC
5732019-11-07T19:17:30 <wumpus> could at least initially do that I guess
5742019-11-07T19:17:38 <gleb> Is it assumed that everybody knows what does SRD stand for?
5752019-11-07T19:17:43 <achow101> so people who care could set some switch to use srd as the fallback so that we aren't breaking things too much
5762019-11-07T19:17:54 <sipa> gleb: single random draw
5772019-11-07T19:18:03 <wumpus> replacing it is goig to be much more controversial than adding a new method
5782019-11-07T19:18:15 <achow101> but I don't think anyone would opt in because what user knows that srd is or really cares about the coin selection algo details?
5792019-11-07T19:18:45 <achow101> My current pr for srd is to actually use both knapsack and srd, then choose the one that produces the "better" solution
5802019-11-07T19:18:48 <wumpus> it's something that needs to be tested/evaluate over a long period
5812019-11-07T19:18:50 <achow101> although defining "better" is non-trivial
5822019-11-07T19:18:54 <wumpus> people that want to test it can enable it
5832019-11-07T19:19:39 <achow101> i'm not convinced that people are going to test it
5842019-11-07T19:19:57 <wumpus> you mean, no one?
5852019-11-07T19:20:07 <meshcollider> Probably lol
5862019-11-07T19:20:18 <wumpus> that's a dangerous statement, if you think no one cares, why work on it?
5872019-11-07T19:20:43 <sipa> a possibility could be to run both, and add a debug log that tells you what SRD would have done instead
5882019-11-07T19:21:10 <achow101> I would guess that the people who would test it are not the same people who make enough transactions for it to matter
5892019-11-07T19:21:22 <wumpus> that doesn't matter
5902019-11-07T19:21:36 <sipa> there's a big difference between people in general being interested in a feature ("better coin selection" i think certainly qualified) and people with both the technical means and in a situation where they can provide good feedback
5912019-11-07T19:21:48 <jonatack> perhaps it needs awareness raised about it? via bitcoin optech, forums, etc.
5922019-11-07T19:21:49 <achow101> then there's no meaningful results or feedback
5932019-11-07T19:21:51 <wumpus> though it might mean you need to convince people that make enough transactions to test it, maybe
5942019-11-07T19:22:01 <wumpus> that's easier if it's an option
5952019-11-07T19:22:49 *** nosss2 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
5962019-11-07T19:22:56 <wumpus> I don't think we can have this discussion without anyone arguing to add it
5972019-11-07T19:23:29 <wumpus> let's move to next topic
5982019-11-07T19:23:51 <wumpus> #topic Subtree organization and linters (wumpus)
5992019-11-07T19:23:56 *** _Francisco_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
6002019-11-07T19:24:08 <fanquake> linters ðº
6012019-11-07T19:24:27 <wumpus> so while trying to add crc32c to the tree (because the new leveldb uses that), I've noticed that the exceptions to linting are spread all over the place
6022019-11-07T19:24:56 <wumpus> I think it'd be useful to move subtrees to one place in the tree
6032019-11-07T19:25:13 <sipa> yes!
6042019-11-07T19:25:16 <MarcoFalke> Linters shouldn't be a reason to move source code around
6052019-11-07T19:25:17 <BlueMatt> ack
6062019-11-07T19:25:18 <wumpus> so that doxygen knows to avoid it, linters know to avoid it, etc
6072019-11-07T19:25:23 <gleb> broke: minting; woke: linting
6082019-11-07T19:25:39 <MarcoFalke> But I agree it makes sense even absent of linters
6092019-11-07T19:25:45 <BlueMatt> mostly cause putting them in one place is clean from a "this isnt our code, you should know that" human pov
6102019-11-07T19:25:57 <BlueMatt> but, yea, my preference for anything where linters come up is to remove them :)
6112019-11-07T19:26:00 <wumpus> soo
6122019-11-07T19:26:08 <wumpus> look at this commit: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17398/commits/50c86bfc0bfb44c3962b681320aee8d54fc8614d
6132019-11-07T19:26:09 <MarcoFalke> wumpus: Any reason to not run doxygen on it?
6142019-11-07T19:26:20 <wumpus> I had to change 10 places (and more) just to add one subtree
6152019-11-07T19:26:28 <wumpus> MarcoFalke: because it's not our code
6162019-11-07T19:26:39 <wumpus> I don't want general google documentation in our doxygen
6172019-11-07T19:26:47 <jonasschnelli> Can't attend the meeting today...
6182019-11-07T19:27:12 <wumpus> it's meant to document bitcoin core, not leveldb, or a crc32 library
6192019-11-07T19:27:36 *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
6202019-11-07T19:27:36 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #17403: doc: reintegrate 0.19.0 release notes (0.19...reintegrate_relnotes_019) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17403
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6222019-11-07T19:27:38 <MarcoFalke> ok, fine
6232019-11-07T19:27:58 <wumpus> do you think it would not only be clutter?
6242019-11-07T19:28:37 <wumpus> in any case that leaves the linters and everything
6252019-11-07T19:28:39 <wumpus> I think a mess now
6262019-11-07T19:29:29 <wumpus> it took me an hour or so to find them all
6272019-11-07T19:29:31 <MarcoFalke> #action Move subtrees to one place
6282019-11-07T19:29:49 <sipa> it seems ctaes and secp256k1 are included in doxygen, though
6292019-11-07T19:30:10 <wumpus> that's probably accidental
6302019-11-07T19:30:20 <jnewbery> an alternative would be to have an exclude.txt file in the linter directory and have all linters read from there
6312019-11-07T19:30:24 <wumpus> it's also easy to forget one
6322019-11-07T19:31:15 <jnewbery> (not saying we shouldn't change code organization structure, just agree with Marco that it shouldn't be driven by satisfying the linters)
6332019-11-07T19:31:17 <wumpus> yes, that's also possible
6342019-11-07T19:31:44 <wumpus> oh I agree
6352019-11-07T19:31:50 <sipa> or have a directory subtrees with all the subtrees? :)
6362019-11-07T19:31:52 <fanquake> another alternative would be to just remove all the linters, as they seem to take up a disproportionate amount of everyones time ð¦
6372019-11-07T19:32:22 <MarcoFalke> fanquake: Not having them also takes up time, unfortunately (as we recently saw)
6382019-11-07T19:32:22 <jnewbery> Concept ACK directory subtrees with subtrees
6392019-11-07T19:32:24 <jamesob> something something baby bathwater
6402019-11-07T19:32:40 <wumpus> FWIW doxygen input is already generated using automake so it'd be trivial to generate it from a central list
6412019-11-07T19:32:59 <wumpus> the linters are shell scripts all over the place
6422019-11-07T19:33:11 <BlueMatt> ignoring linters, I think its a good idea to put them all in one place, and it looks like no one materially disagreed?
6432019-11-07T19:33:12 <wumpus> using different ways to scan the tree
6442019-11-07T19:33:15 <wumpus> so that's more work...
6452019-11-07T19:33:16 <BlueMatt> so...next topic?
6462019-11-07T19:33:42 <fanquake> I have a real quick topic if there aren't any others left
6472019-11-07T19:33:48 <BlueMatt> i haz topic
6482019-11-07T19:33:49 <MarcoFalke> It is going to change all includes. Incoming merge conflicts
6492019-11-07T19:33:58 <wumpus> #topic rust in bitcoin core (BlueMatt)
6502019-11-07T19:34:10 <wumpus> MarcoFalke: yes, it's a mess to clean up a mess
6512019-11-07T19:34:20 <MarcoFalke> lol
6522019-11-07T19:34:23 <BlueMatt> one question about the rust stuff that wasn't answered in the last meeting (#16834)...in the last meeting the conclusion was "why merge if not shipped by default", so I set it as default, and this added a new question...if you dont have rustc installed, should configure fail, or just warn and not build rust.
6532019-11-07T19:34:23 <BlueMatt> cfields made the point that this results in silently building binaries with significantly different feature sets than release ones, which feels super strange, but I figure folks will complain if suddenly master stops building for them cause rustc is required unless you say --disable-rust. thoughts?
6542019-11-07T19:34:26 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16834 | Fetch Headers over DNS by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #16834 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
6552019-11-07T19:35:07 <BlueMatt> other than this it seems that pr is Ready to Go (tm)
6562019-11-07T19:35:24 <jamesob> seems pretty aggressive to me to require rustc by default
6572019-11-07T19:35:25 <wumpus> but if someone wants to fix the linters to use a central exclude list that's fine with me too ,anyhow, I really don't know what's the best solution here, but I think something needs to change
6582019-11-07T19:35:36 *** timothy has quit IRC
6592019-11-07T19:36:19 <fanquake> I don't think rustc should be a requirement to build master, I also agree that silently failing to build new feature sets feels like the wrong behaviour.
6602019-11-07T19:36:20 <wumpus> also I didn't really like including crc32c in our main src directory, it's kind of indirect
6612019-11-07T19:36:35 <wumpus> something like /src/external would be better
6622019-11-07T19:36:36 <sipa> why not just leave the rust stuff off by default?
6632019-11-07T19:36:49 <wumpus> yes, leave the rust stuff off by default, at least initially
6642019-11-07T19:36:50 <BlueMatt> sipa: you're three meetings late on that one :p
6652019-11-07T19:37:13 <sipa> yeah, haven't paid much attention to that
6662019-11-07T19:37:17 <sipa> but i don't see why that isn
6672019-11-07T19:37:24 <sipa> 't the obvious solution
6682019-11-07T19:37:34 <jnewbery> Sorry, I also missed the 'on by default' decision
6692019-11-07T19:37:35 <BlueMatt> well I mean we could also leave it off by default, but there was strong agreement to have it on by default in 0.20
6702019-11-07T19:37:46 <BlueMatt> I dont think there were any voices that disagreed with that
6712019-11-07T19:37:48 <promag> hi
6722019-11-07T19:37:55 <jnewbery> BlueMatt: do you have a link? Struggling to find it in my scrollback
6732019-11-07T19:37:58 <wumpus> I haven't seen that
6742019-11-07T19:38:05 <wumpus> I like to merge *some* rust code by 0.20
6752019-11-07T19:38:23 <BlueMatt> (built by default, not, like, making new network calls by default at runtime, that is)
6762019-11-07T19:38:24 <wumpus> I think it's best to have it disabled by default initally
6772019-11-07T19:38:25 <meshcollider> Maybe the "strong agreement" was just everyone missing the discussion :p
6782019-11-07T19:38:25 <jamesob> and just to clarify, there's no way that a failure in any of the rust subsystems can cascade over to the other processes, right?
6792019-11-07T19:38:27 <BlueMatt> (in case that was the confusion)
6802019-11-07T19:38:40 <wumpus> it's always possible to change a default
6812019-11-07T19:38:51 <wumpus> but you're going to have a merge harder time getting it merged it you want to require it
6822019-11-07T19:38:54 <BlueMatt> yes, jamesob, that is (to my knowledge) true.
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6842019-11-07T19:39:06 <fanquake> #17090 some default discussion in here
6852019-11-07T19:39:08 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17090 | RFC: Rust code integration · Issue #17090 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
6862019-11-07T19:39:10 <BlueMatt> wumpus: I personally dont want to require it, my preference was just "on if you have rustc available"
6872019-11-07T19:39:18 <BlueMatt> but cfields pointed out this felt....strange
6882019-11-07T19:39:30 <BlueMatt> cause you would just silently get things that had different feature sets from release
6892019-11-07T19:39:36 <wumpus> I like explicit configuration flags, but anyhow
6902019-11-07T19:39:56 <promag> BlueMatt: isnt that the same as with qt?
6912019-11-07T19:40:04 <jamesob> I think in general whenever we release major new features they should be opt-in (if possible) for a few releases to iron out kinks
6922019-11-07T19:40:05 <BlueMatt> you mean ./configure flags, anything written so far has to be opt-ed in at runtime
6932019-11-07T19:40:18 <sipa> promag: but Qt is actually built and enabled by default in release builds
6942019-11-07T19:40:19 <BlueMatt> promag: maybe zmq is a better example, at least with qt you just totally miss the bitcoin-qt binary
6952019-11-07T19:40:26 <meshcollider> why not off unless you have --enable-rust then?
6962019-11-07T19:40:40 <BlueMatt> jamesob: you mean opt-in, or not built-in, cause those are different
6972019-11-07T19:40:52 <wumpus> I'm not sure why this is such a big issue, just leave it experimental for the first release and only activated with a flag
6982019-11-07T19:41:05 <jamesob> BlueMatt: I mean available but disabled by default
6992019-11-07T19:41:05 <wumpus> this can always be chagned later
7002019-11-07T19:41:06 <fanquake> I feel like an explicit opt into rust stuff for 0.20.0 is ok. That would be the same as all this new android stuff. None of that is going to be anything other than explicitly opt in for a while
7012019-11-07T19:41:21 <promag> +1 fanquake
7022019-11-07T19:41:40 <wumpus> fanquake: exactly
7032019-11-07T19:41:41 <BlueMatt> wumpus: I'm confused, you mean on by default at runtime or built by default
7042019-11-07T19:41:52 <sipa> by default don't compile it in
7052019-11-07T19:41:53 <wumpus> it's much *easier* to merge things if they're introduced that way
7062019-11-07T19:41:53 <BlueMatt> same goes for fanquake...
7072019-11-07T19:42:09 <wumpus> disabled in the compile by default
7082019-11-07T19:42:15 <jnewbery> wumpus: +1
7092019-11-07T19:42:20 <jamesob> +1
7102019-11-07T19:42:22 <fanquake> BlueMatt I mean if you want to do rust things, do ./configure --enable-rust, and that's the only time it's used
7112019-11-07T19:42:30 <BlueMatt> lol wumpus i distinctly recall the opposite thought last meeting
7122019-11-07T19:42:35 <BlueMatt> but, ok, I can undo all those changes...
7132019-11-07T19:42:39 <BlueMatt> fanquake: lol you too...
7142019-11-07T19:42:51 <jnewbery> BlueMatt: no-one else remembers. I can't see any agreement in the Oct 10 meeting
7152019-11-07T19:43:29 <promag> BlueMatt: just to be clear, you suggest to enable if rustc is available?
7162019-11-07T19:44:25 <wumpus> I'm not sure having rustc in your path should change anything automatically to bitcoin configuration
7172019-11-07T19:44:38 *** diogosergio has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
7182019-11-07T19:44:40 <BlueMatt> yea, that was cfields' objection, which seems strange
7192019-11-07T19:45:09 <wumpus> but than again, I like explicit configuration options, I hate 'intelligent' software trying to second-guess me in general, so :)
7202019-11-07T19:45:23 <wumpus> any other topics?
7212019-11-07T19:45:38 <promag> I think it's fair to expect a first-time thing to be opt-in
7222019-11-07T19:45:59 <fanquake> I have one in regards to #15847
7232019-11-07T19:46:02 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15847 | Feedback for GitHub CEO · Issue #15847 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
7242019-11-07T19:46:16 <wumpus> #topic github feedback (fanquake)
7252019-11-07T19:46:40 <fanquake> Basically just for everyone to dump any more thoughts they have into that thread, as the (in person) discussions with GitHub are happening early next week.
7262019-11-07T19:46:45 <wumpus> BlueMatt: let' sjust aim to get some rust code in, the default discussion is really something that can be left for later and only confuses the intial merge I think
7272019-11-07T19:47:05 <fanquake> There have already been some discussions in repos in GitHub in which I've started bringing up some of our suggestions.
7282019-11-07T19:47:08 <BlueMatt> right, ok, I'll just turn it off by default and we can have this conversation again post-merge.
7292019-11-07T19:47:23 <wumpus> yes, maybe in a major release or two
7302019-11-07T19:47:27 <promag> wumpus: I have one topic: cmd notify queue
7312019-11-07T19:47:30 <fanquake> Seems that some of the maintainers from other projects, which include some people from Rust core, agree with some of our concerns/issues.
7322019-11-07T19:48:01 <fanquake> That was all though. If you have any thoughts you don't wont to post in the issue, feel free to get in touch with me directly.
7332019-11-07T19:48:02 <sipa> fanquake: come say hi when you're in the bay area
7342019-11-07T19:48:37 <fanquake> sipa: will do
7352019-11-07T19:49:42 <wumpus> #topic cmd notify queue (promag)
7362019-11-07T19:49:48 <promag> so -walletnottify and -blocknotify spawn a thread which in turn call system()
7372019-11-07T19:50:17 <promag> and sometimes that can lead to some load - but that's not the issue now
7382019-11-07T19:50:22 <wumpus> you want an unbounded queue instead of a fork bomb :)
7392019-11-07T19:50:51 *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
7402019-11-07T19:50:51 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipsorcery opened pull request #17404: Remove redundant class file include from test_bitcoin msvc project (master...msvc_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17404
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7422019-11-07T19:50:54 <wumpus> launching processes for notifications was always a bad idea
7432019-11-07T19:51:09 <promag> well, that can't be changed I guess
7442019-11-07T19:51:11 <wumpus> definitely if they happen often enough to consider things like that
7452019-11-07T19:51:31 <wumpus> well if it's just every 10 minutes no one complains
7462019-11-07T19:51:41 <promag> while replacing with boost::process I've noticed that the pace of process spawning is shorter
7472019-11-07T19:51:50 <wumpus> if it's a high frequency noticication you should use another mechanism
7482019-11-07T19:52:24 <promag> so I wonder wdyt about adding some queue
7492019-11-07T19:52:38 <promag> which has de bonus of guaranteeing order
7502019-11-07T19:53:14 <promag> also, the advantage is to avoid command line placeholders
7512019-11-07T19:53:23 <wumpus> that adds latency, also people expect the thread to run free (so keeping a command running doesn't block bitcoind), so you can't guarantee much
7522019-11-07T19:53:24 <promag> and pass vars via env
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7542019-11-07T19:54:18 <promag> wumpus: I think that if a command does that now I will have problems anyway
7552019-11-07T19:54:26 <promag> *it will
7562019-11-07T19:54:43 <wumpus> right now, it creates a new thread an starts the command in that
7572019-11-07T19:55:18 <promag> right, but if the command doesn't quit you end up with lots of threads?
7582019-11-07T19:55:31 <wumpus> if you want to create say, a single-threaded worker queue for notifications, that does change how it works
7592019-11-07T19:55:48 <wumpus> I'm sure it needs to quit some time
7602019-11-07T19:56:13 <promag> would you nack that?
7612019-11-07T19:56:24 <wumpus> I think it's a unnecessary change
7622019-11-07T19:56:38 <wumpus> how it is now works for the people that use the current mechanism
7632019-11-07T19:56:45 <wumpus> if you want more, use zmq
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7652019-11-07T19:57:46 <wumpus> you're not going to make a system that supports high frequency notifications with process spawning
7662019-11-07T19:58:01 <promag> my problem is that in #13339 if I use boost::process notifications are slowly handled
7672019-11-07T19:58:06 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13339 | wallet: Replace %w by wallet name in -walletnotify script by promag · Pull Request #13339 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
7682019-11-07T19:58:14 <wumpus> why?
7692019-11-07T19:58:41 <wumpus> is boost process so inefficient? what does it do differently?
7702019-11-07T19:58:44 <promag> my guess is that because internally it has to guard getenv/send etc
7712019-11-07T19:58:55 <promag> setenv
7722019-11-07T19:58:57 <sipa> how does a queue help?
7732019-11-07T19:59:02 <wumpus> promag: why?
7742019-11-07T19:59:09 <wumpus> you can provide an environment when you exec
7752019-11-07T19:59:14 <wumpus> there's no need to ever call setenv
7762019-11-07T19:59:41 <wumpus> in a multi-threaded process you definitely don't want to use that
7772019-11-07T19:59:44 <promag> at a lower level those calls aren't thread safe
7782019-11-07T20:00:01 <wumpus> there are thread safe calls at a low leven
7792019-11-07T20:00:03 <wumpus> l
7802019-11-07T20:00:26 <wumpus> oh, it's time
7812019-11-07T20:00:28 <wumpus> #endmeeting
7822019-11-07T20:00:28 <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Nov 7 20:00:28 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
7832019-11-07T20:00:28 <lightningbot> Minutes: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-11-07-19.00.html
7842019-11-07T20:00:28 <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-11-07-19.00.txt
7852019-11-07T20:00:28 <lightningbot> Log: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2019/bitcoin-core-dev.2019-11-07-19.00.log.html
7862019-11-07T20:00:33 <sipa> #lunch
7872019-11-07T20:00:47 <promag> sipa: adopting a queue to guarantee order doesn't fix that, but in turn its no longer a problem :P
7882019-11-07T20:00:55 <wumpus> promag: man execvpe
7892019-11-07T20:01:02 <jnewbery> wumpus: MarcoFalke: meshcollider: 15931 I think is ready for merge. ACKs on 36b68de from ryanofsky, jnewbery, jkczyz, promag
7902019-11-07T20:01:14 <MarcoFalke> #15931
7912019-11-07T20:01:15 <promag> ill dig a little more, ty
7922019-11-07T20:01:17 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15931 | Remove GetDepthInMainChain dependency on locked chain interface by ariard · Pull Request #15931 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
7932019-11-07T20:02:24 <meshcollider> jnewbery: sweet I'll take a look today
7942019-11-07T20:02:34 <jnewbery> thanks!
7952019-11-07T20:03:12 <wumpus> promag: sorry to be so cynical but the way you way that, the more I hear people talking about boost::process the more I start thinking that it's a bad idea to start using it
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7972019-11-07T20:04:38 <wumpus> things like thread safe calls for process spawning have been solved in the 90's, it's not some magic new technology
7982019-11-07T20:05:08 <promag> The execvpe() function is a GNU extension.
7992019-11-07T20:05:15 <promag> from https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/3-execvpe/
8002019-11-07T20:07:45 <promag> wumpus: https://pastebin.com/9KT2qyHG
8012019-11-07T20:07:47 <wumpus> so do you need to override the environemtn?
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8042019-11-07T20:08:37 <wumpus> we've always passed things as arguments
8052019-11-07T20:08:53 <promag> wumpus: escaping issues
8062019-11-07T20:09:25 <wumpus> wait
8072019-11-07T20:09:26 <promag> and honestly do you prefer that over env vars?
8082019-11-07T20:09:37 <wumpus> you're talking about low-level process spawning right?
8092019-11-07T20:09:50 <wumpus> escaping issues are a shell thing
8102019-11-07T20:09:57 <jeremyrubin> Oh
8112019-11-07T20:10:01 <jeremyrubin> Meeting....
8122019-11-07T20:10:05 <wumpus> if you don't invovle the shell, so spawn a process directly, you're not going to have escaping issues
8132019-11-07T20:10:30 <wumpus> this is similar to python subprocess.Popen with shell=True versus shell=False
8142019-11-07T20:10:47 <wumpus> yes, I prefer arguments to environment variables
8152019-11-07T20:10:51 <ryanofsky> wumpus, on windows you have escaping issues without a shell because processes are starting with a single string, not an array of strings, and the c runtime library parses that into an argv array
8162019-11-07T20:11:02 <wumpus> environment variables are for global state
8172019-11-07T20:11:40 <wumpus> if you need to pass arguments to a process, the preferred way to do that is to use arguments
8182019-11-07T20:12:39 <promag> wumpus: what I usually see is if something has to launch a process with a custom configuration then env vars is the choice - honestly I don't recall seeing placeholders
8192019-11-07T20:12:45 <promag> like %s
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8212019-11-07T20:13:32 <promag> anyway, I'll try to see what is slowing boost::process:spawn
8222019-11-07T20:14:01 <wumpus> ryanofsky: I have no idea about windows
8232019-11-07T20:14:23 <promag> I really dislike %w, and there's the windows "'issue'", that's why I'm trying with boost::process
8242019-11-07T20:14:26 <wumpus> POSIX already confuses me enough,thanks
8252019-11-07T20:14:53 <wumpus> let's look it up though
8262019-11-07T20:15:53 <promag> yup, I don't think this stuff too.. but walletnotify lacks support for multiwallet
8272019-11-07T20:16:10 <wumpus> which brings me back to, please use another notification mechanism
8282019-11-07T20:16:31 <promag> wumpus: we don't support zmq in the wallet
8292019-11-07T20:16:34 <wumpus> spawning processes is OS specific madness
8302019-11-07T20:16:50 <promag> right
8312019-11-07T20:16:56 <wumpus> in a sandboxed env you might not even be allowed to do that
8322019-11-07T20:17:37 <wumpus> promag: maybe we should!
8332019-11-07T20:17:47 <promag> I think that good solutions is a) some PR for longpoll by jonasschnelli b) push to some amqp
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8352019-11-07T20:20:00 <promag> problem with a) you need a long poll for each wallet
8362019-11-07T20:20:13 <wumpus> so to be clear I'm not arguing to remove walletnotify etc, if the load is low enough that spawning processes is good enoguh, then it's good enough, but I don't think it's worth spending a lot of work to improve/change it, especially incompatibly or movingthings to environment variables etc
8372019-11-07T20:21:02 <promag> wumpus: right, I'm ok with last decision - just support %w in linux/mac
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8392019-11-07T20:21:08 <wumpus> so why is wallet zmq not a thing?
8402019-11-07T20:21:16 <wumpus> why notwork on that instead?
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8422019-11-07T20:21:37 <promag> ¯\_(ã)_/¯
8432019-11-07T20:22:00 <promag> I think that was discussed before
8442019-11-07T20:22:06 <wumpus> okay
8452019-11-07T20:22:16 <promag> if the subscriber is down then you miss notifications?
8462019-11-07T20:22:35 <promag> I don't remember
8472019-11-07T20:22:39 <sipa> zmq is only useful as a "you need to poll right now" mechanism
8482019-11-07T20:22:47 <wumpus> I don't think spawning processes is 100% guaranteed either
8492019-11-07T20:22:56 <sipa> you need to poll at startup/intermittently anyway; zmq helps reduce your latency
8502019-11-07T20:23:12 <wumpus> it's extremely hard, maybe impossible to make a notification mechanism that is 100% loss proof
8512019-11-07T20:23:13 <promag> so the zmq message is (new stuff in wallet x, bye)
8522019-11-07T20:23:29 <wumpus> sipa: right
8532019-11-07T20:23:38 <wumpus> and it includes sequence numbers so you know if you missed something
8542019-11-07T20:24:01 <wumpus> (maybe use a block chain for your notifications *ducks)
8552019-11-07T20:24:53 <promag> that's so 2010..
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8592019-11-07T20:42:51 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/270616228bc9...2fb6140d585f
8602019-11-07T20:42:51 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b80f7db Aaron Clauson: Remove redundant class file includes from test_bitcoin project.
8612019-11-07T20:42:52 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2fb6140 fanquake: Merge #17404: Remove redundant class file include from test_bitcoin msvc p...
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8642019-11-07T20:43:06 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #17404: Remove redundant class file include from test_bitcoin msvc project (master...msvc_test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17404
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8712019-11-07T21:03:43 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #17405: wallet: Remove unused boost::this_thread::interruption_point (master...1911-walletNoBoost) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17405
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8772019-11-07T21:18:14 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] BlockMechanic opened pull request #17406: Fix http server (master...fix-http-server) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17406
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8802019-11-07T21:18:39 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] BlockMechanic closed pull request #17406: Fix http server (master...fix-http-server) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17406
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8902019-11-07T21:52:42 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #17407: Add MempoolInstance() to get the current mempool (master...1911-txPoolOptional) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17407
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9072019-11-07T22:36:22 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #17408: Replace assert with ASSERT (master...1911-assertASSERT) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17408
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9132019-11-07T22:51:26 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #17408: Replace assert with ASSERT (master...1911-assertASSERT) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17408
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