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82020-10-22T00:41:16 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b46f37ba5ec4...dda18e7310a2
92020-10-22T00:41:17 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa5f466 MarcoFalke: test: Fix rpc_net intermittent issue
102020-10-22T00:41:17 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dda18e7 fanquake: Merge #20214: test: Fix rpc_net intermittent issue
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132020-10-22T00:41:36 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #20214: test: Fix rpc_net intermittent issue (master...2010-testFixNet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20214
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262020-10-22T02:37:23 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #20216: wallet: fix buffer over-read in SQLite file magic check (master...20201022-wallet-fix-sqlite-magic-buffer-overread) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20216
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552020-10-22T07:03:45 <kallewoof> Signet miner now running master. Haven't tested it, but I think this means taproot is activated on signet now
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802020-10-22T08:16:35 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/dda18e7310a2...1cb4e339f978
812020-10-22T08:16:36 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5aadd4b Prayank: Convert amounts from float to decimal
822020-10-22T08:16:37 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1cb4e33 MarcoFalke: Merge #20039: test: Convert amounts from float to decimal
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852020-10-22T08:16:55 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20039: test: Convert amounts from float to decimal (master...floatdecimal) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20039
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1022020-10-22T09:04:59 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1cb4e339f978...7012db2a6bcd
1032020-10-22T09:04:59 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa3af2c MarcoFalke: test: Fix intermittent issue in p2p_feefilter
1042020-10-22T09:05:00 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa5a91a MarcoFalke: test: Fix typo (one tx is enough) in p2p_feefilter
1052020-10-22T09:05:00 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7012db2 MarcoFalke: Merge #20176: test: Fix intermittent issue in p2p_feefilter
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1092020-10-22T09:05:18 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20176: test: Fix intermittent issue in p2p_feefilter (master...2010-testFixIntIssue) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20176
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1112020-10-22T09:05:21 <gwillen> /win goto sully
1122020-10-22T09:05:25 <gwillen> whoops, heh
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1462020-10-22T11:19:59 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #20217: net: Remove g_relay_txes (master...2020-10-remove-grelaytxes) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20217
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1562020-10-22T12:20:26 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7012db2a6bcd...88271184e822
1572020-10-22T12:20:26 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa299ac MarcoFalke: test: Speed up wallet_resendwallettransactions test with mockscheduler RPC
1582020-10-22T12:20:27 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8827118 MarcoFalke: Merge #20112: test: Speed up wallet_resendwallettransactions with mocksche...
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1612020-10-22T12:20:45 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #20112: test: Speed up wallet_resendwallettransactions with mockscheduler RPC (master...2010-testFasterMock) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20112
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1652020-10-22T12:21:38 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #20218: test: Suppress MaybeCompactWalletDB data race (master...2010-testSuppWalletRace) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20218
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1732020-10-22T12:37:35 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr closed pull request #20204: Wallet: Generate UUID for SQLite wallets (master...sqlite_wallet_uuid) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20204
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2422020-10-22T16:57:26 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #20220: rpc, test, doc: explicit feerate follow-ups (master...explicit-feerate-follow-ups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20220
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2452020-10-22T17:04:47 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #20221: net: compat.h related cleanup (master...201022-compat) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20221
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2532020-10-22T17:50:07 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ellemouton opened pull request #20222: refactor: CTxMempool constructor clean up (master...ctxmempool_refactor) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20222
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2632020-10-22T18:23:52 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #20223: Drop the leading 0 from the version number (master...drop-leading-0) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20223
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2662020-10-22T18:41:21 <dongcarl> Anyone know of a way to get the DEBUG_LOG out from Travis? Or is it unobtainable?
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2722020-10-22T18:59:23 <wumpus> #startmeeting
2732020-10-22T18:59:23 <lightningbot> Meeting started Thu Oct 22 18:59:23 2020 UTC. The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
2742020-10-22T18:59:23 <lightningbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
2752020-10-22T18:59:39 <kanzure> hi
2762020-10-22T18:59:43 <jnewbery> hello
2772020-10-22T18:59:47 <emzy> hi
2782020-10-22T18:59:48 <hebasto> hi
2792020-10-22T18:59:51 <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: wumpus sipa gmaxwell jonasschnelli morcos luke-jr sdaftuar jtimon cfields petertodd kanzure bluematt instagibbs phantomcircuit codeshark michagogo marcofalke paveljanik NicolasDorier jl2012 achow101 meshcollider jnewbery maaku fanquake promag provoostenator aj Chris_Stewart_5 dongcarl gwillen jamesob ken281221 ryanofsky gleb moneyball kvaciral ariard digi_james
2802020-10-22T18:59:53 <wumpus> amiti fjahr jeremyrubin lightlike emilengler jonatack hebasto jb55 elichai2
2812020-10-22T19:00:01 <sipa> hi
2822020-10-22T19:00:04 <jonatack> hi
2832020-10-22T19:00:22 <jonasschnelli> hi
2842020-10-22T19:00:23 <wumpus> no topics have been proposed yet in http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt
2852020-10-22T19:00:40 <wumpus> any last-minute ones?
2862020-10-22T19:01:05 <sipa> yay for all the work that made it into 0.21
2872020-10-22T19:01:15 <jnewbery> +1
2882020-10-22T19:01:15 <wumpus> yes!!!
2892020-10-22T19:01:32 <achow101> hi
2902020-10-22T19:01:36 <michaelfolkson> 21.0 not 0.21
2912020-10-22T19:01:44 <achow101> michaelfolkson: not yet
2922020-10-22T19:01:47 <michaelfolkson> haha
2932020-10-22T19:02:10 <wumpus> #topic 0.21 milestone
2942020-10-22T19:02:15 <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+milestone%3A0.21.0
2952020-10-22T19:02:17 <emzy> I have a DNSSEC setup for dnsseed. Not directly bitcoin core related.
2962020-10-22T19:02:48 <wumpus> I think this is the high priority for review now
2972020-10-22T19:03:06 <fjahr> hi
2982020-10-22T19:03:25 <hebasto> is any way to label with 0.21 milestone prs from the https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui ?
2992020-10-22T19:03:53 <wumpus> the planned date for the branch split-off and rc1 is 2020-11-01
3002020-10-22T19:04:06 <wumpus> hebasto: there are no milestones there?
3012020-10-22T19:04:19 <wumpus> we probably need to create them then
3022020-10-22T19:05:06 <hebasto> wumpus: no milestones at all
3032020-10-22T19:05:19 <wumpus> emzy: would DNSSEC help there?
3042020-10-22T19:06:06 <wumpus> I guess it would hide what results are returned from the DNS seed to the public internet
3052020-10-22T19:06:15 <emzy> wumpus: was for the last-minute topic list.
3062020-10-22T19:06:35 <jonatack> perhaps #20220 which has fixes for 0.21 and on which the #19543 work is building
3072020-10-22T19:06:37 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20220 | wallet, rpc, test: explicit feerate follow-ups by jonatack · Pull Request #20220 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3082020-10-22T19:06:38 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19543 | Normalize fee units for RPC ("BTC/kB" and "sat/B) · Issue #19543 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3092020-10-22T19:06:52 <wumpus> that's ok, you weren't clear about it being a proposed topic
3102020-10-22T19:07:09 <emzy> wumpus: it is mainly to add DNSSEC to the sipa seeds.
3112020-10-22T19:08:00 <wumpus> jonatack: ok added
3122020-10-22T19:08:05 <emzy> wumpus: not hiding insted signing.
3132020-10-22T19:08:10 *** owowo has quit IRC
3142020-10-22T19:08:49 <achow101> maybe #20205 should be added
3152020-10-22T19:08:51 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20205 | wallet: Properly support a wallet id by achow101 · Pull Request #20205 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3162020-10-22T19:09:03 <wumpus> right, DNSSEC authenticates it doesn't encrypt, my bad
3172020-10-22T19:09:35 <wumpus> achow101: is that a bugfix?
3182020-10-22T19:09:49 <achow101> wumpus: luke-jr argues it is.
3192020-10-22T19:10:23 <achow101> something about sqlite wallets need unique ids too to not cause problems in the future
3202020-10-22T19:10:24 <wumpus> you might want to mention this in the PR description, it is currently unclear about the why of the change, in any case, added
3212020-10-22T19:11:07 <wumpus> hebasto: we definitely need to add the milestones there then
3222020-10-22T19:11:12 <jonasschnelli> hebasto: I just created the milestones
3232020-10-22T19:11:23 <hebasto> jonasschnelli: thanks!
3242020-10-22T19:11:32 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: perfect, thanks!
3252020-10-22T19:12:58 <hebasto> jonasschnelli: possible candidates for 0.21 https://github.com/users/hebasto/projects/5
3262020-10-22T19:12:59 <wumpus> okay, moving to emzy's topic
3272020-10-22T19:13:13 <wumpus> #topic DNSSEC setup for dnsseed
3282020-10-22T19:13:27 <emzy> Ok. All new here for me to attend.. :)
3292020-10-22T19:13:45 *** owowo has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3302020-10-22T19:14:08 <emzy> This is the issue https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19714
3312020-10-22T19:14:35 <wumpus> #19714
3322020-10-22T19:14:36 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19714 | ops: Enable DNSSEC on all Bitcoin DNS Seed domain names · Issue #19714 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3332020-10-22T19:15:16 <emzy> It's about having DNSSEC on all dnsseeds. Sipas implementation has no dnssec so I made a setup to run it behind a Bind9
3342020-10-22T19:15:31 *** TallTim has quit IRC
3352020-10-22T19:15:44 <emzy> The howto to set it up is here: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin-seeder/pull/85
3362020-10-22T19:16:06 <wumpus> neat
3372020-10-22T19:16:13 <jonasschnelli> nice emzy. Thanks
3382020-10-22T19:16:18 <jonasschnelli> Will it only work with bind?
3392020-10-22T19:16:26 <jonasschnelli> Would there be the chance to get it working it djbdns?
3402020-10-22T19:16:29 <emzy> Someone needs to check it. I hope it is compleate.
3412020-10-22T19:16:51 <sipa> emzy: i'll read in more detail later, but how big a batch of IPs does it serve at any point in time?
3422020-10-22T19:16:54 <emzy> jonasschnelli: if djbdns allows dynamic updates. Yes.
3432020-10-22T19:17:10 <sipa> (as in, how many get extracted from the seeder and pushed into zonefiles)
3442020-10-22T19:17:23 <emzy> sipa: it clones the responce from your seeder.
3452020-10-22T19:17:42 <sipa> but a response only has 20 or so IP addresses
3462020-10-22T19:17:46 <emzy> maybe better say caches it.
3472020-10-22T19:17:57 <sipa> i hope it's not serving the same 20 for a whole day?
3482020-10-22T19:18:05 <emzy> no 1h
3492020-10-22T19:18:43 <sipa> if there was a way to load more of them into the zone file at once, would bind serve random subsets?
3502020-10-22T19:18:50 <emzy> could be changed. but the ttl on the sipa seeder is also 1h
3512020-10-22T19:19:03 <sipa> emzy: yes, but per request - every ISP gets different results
3522020-10-22T19:19:07 <emzy> ah I see.
3532020-10-22T19:19:49 <michaelfolkson> practicalswift wants to avoid a "bind monoculture". What are the concerns with that?
3542020-10-22T19:20:08 <emzy> I could also request every minute or so. But every time it needs to be signed. So it can't be every request different.
3552020-10-22T19:20:11 <luke-jr> wumpus: 20205 is a bugfix because otherwise sqlite wallets lack a unique id which bdb has provided until now
3562020-10-22T19:21:04 *** TallTim has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3572020-10-22T19:21:10 <emzy> michaelfolkson: there is still the dnsseed from bluematt
3582020-10-22T19:21:11 <sipa> emzy: your doc has a cronjob in cron.daily
3592020-10-22T19:21:15 <sipa> is that something else?
3602020-10-22T19:21:19 <wumpus> luke-jr: this unique id is there to detect loading the same wallet twice?
3612020-10-22T19:21:28 *** Talkless has quit IRC
3622020-10-22T19:22:06 <sipa> emzy: i think bluematt's dnsseed also uses bind
3632020-10-22T19:22:08 <emzy> sipa: thats wrong. I will fix that.
3642020-10-22T19:22:24 <luke-jr> wumpus: to identify the same wallet even if renamed/moved/backedup/etc
3652020-10-22T19:22:33 <sipa> emzy: if you'd load say 100 IP addresses in the zone file instead, would everyone get those 100 IPs on every request?
3662020-10-22T19:22:40 <emzy> sipa: wrong in my documentation. My seed has it in crom.hourly
3672020-10-22T19:22:49 <emzy> sipa: yes
3682020-10-22T19:22:50 <wumpus> luke-jr: right
3692020-10-22T19:22:51 <luke-jr> wumpus: we *can* use it for a warning of loading it twice, but thats only one use case
3702020-10-22T19:23:12 *** theStack has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3712020-10-22T19:23:13 <sipa> also 20025 doesn't actually prevent loading twice; it just adds an ID (iirc)
3722020-10-22T19:23:35 <wumpus> luke-jr: but I thought that was the one that was critical
3732020-10-22T19:23:46 <luke-jr> wumpus: my prune locks pr is an example of another use case
3742020-10-22T19:23:57 <sipa> wumpus: it was for BDB, due to environments being unable to load same db twice
3752020-10-22T19:24:04 <achow101> wumpus: loading duplicate sqlite wallets is not a problem. it's only an issue with bdb due to environment caching stuff
3762020-10-22T19:24:15 <wumpus> oh
3772020-10-22T19:24:21 <sipa> wumpus: in sqlite wallets there is no such constraint, but it may be useful at an application level
3782020-10-22T19:24:36 <michaelfolkson> Ah there have been past vulnerabilities in BIND
3792020-10-22T19:24:44 <sipa> there is also no use for that currently in the codebase, but adding one is harder if old wallets don't have unique ids
3802020-10-22T19:24:56 <sipa> i'm not convinced it's very urgent, but it does seem harmless to add one
3812020-10-22T19:25:07 <luke-jr> achow101: it can still be a problem due tio metadata divergence
3822020-10-22T19:25:10 <sipa> (correct me if i'm wrong on any of this)
3832020-10-22T19:25:26 *** shesek has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3842020-10-22T19:25:26 *** shesek has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3852020-10-22T19:26:10 <sipa> luke-jr: it may be undesirable at an application level (though ryanofsky seems to disagree with that), but that's different from BDB which has an actual problem with it
3862020-10-22T19:26:26 <wumpus> I think adding it cannot hurt in any case and it might come in useful
3872020-10-22T19:26:32 <sipa> yeah
3882020-10-22T19:27:37 <luke-jr> sipa: yes imo we should at least warn but thats another pr
3892020-10-22T19:28:09 <sipa> luke-jr: seems reasonable to me
3902020-10-22T19:28:26 <luke-jr> going from error to silently fine is not very good ux imo
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3932020-10-22T19:29:07 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sushant-varanasi opened pull request #20224: doc: CI system link added, clarity increased (squashed into a single commit) (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20224
3942020-10-22T19:29:08 *** bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev
3952020-10-22T19:29:10 <sipa> well, sqlite wallets are new; anything supported for them is whatever we declare is supported
3962020-10-22T19:29:31 <luke-jr> well "silently fine *except* you may end up with divergent metadatat" :p
3972020-10-22T19:29:33 <sipa> release notes can state in which ways they are different from bdb wallets, which may include support for loading multiple copies
3982020-10-22T19:29:40 <sipa> right
3992020-10-22T19:29:46 <sipa> i agree with at least warning
4002020-10-22T19:30:23 <luke-jr> sipa: ideally users dont care about underlying db
4012020-10-22T19:31:00 <luke-jr> (sorry laggy irc today)
4022020-10-22T19:31:42 <wumpus> any other topics?
4032020-10-22T19:31:59 <achow101> changing the version number scheme?
4042020-10-22T19:32:25 <wumpus> #topic Change version number scheme (achow101)
4052020-10-22T19:32:44 <achow101> it's about that time of year again to have users complain about our version numbers
4062020-10-22T19:32:48 <wumpus> I don't really feel strongly about it either way but a ok with it
4072020-10-22T19:32:51 <michaelfolkson> Good blog post from achow101 on moving to sqlite https://achow101.com/2020/10/0.21-wallets
4082020-10-22T19:33:01 <achow101> so #20223 drops the leading 0.
4092020-10-22T19:33:01 <luke-jr> lets keep semver at leastâ¦
4102020-10-22T19:33:02 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20223 | Drop the leading 0 from the version number by achow101 · Pull Request #20223 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4112020-10-22T19:33:18 <achow101> and makes our major version number actually the major version
4122020-10-22T19:33:29 <sipa> concept ack
4132020-10-22T19:33:47 <sipa> nobody really treats our 0 as a major version
4142020-10-22T19:33:48 <achow101> and maybe people will stop asking for 1.0
4152020-10-22T19:34:09 <luke-jr> I'd rather just bump 0 to 1
4162020-10-22T19:34:31 <achow101> this should also be a purely cosmetic change since CLIENT_VERSION doesn't change
4172020-10-22T19:34:57 <luke-jr> why not?
4182020-10-22T19:35:09 <achow101> 1000000 * 0 is still 0
4192020-10-22T19:35:10 <sipa> luke-jr: i'm afraid that'd be misinterpreted as an actual major step in development
4202020-10-22T19:35:23 <wumpus> it also wouldn't solve anything
4212020-10-22T19:35:29 <wumpus> besides 'there is a zero at the beginning'
4222020-10-22T19:35:45 <sipa> which i don't think this is; it's correcting for the fact that in practice our minor version number has turned into a conceptual major version
4232020-10-22T19:35:57 <luke-jr> sipa: 1.21?
4242020-10-22T19:36:08 <wumpus> yes, that is the issue
4252020-10-22T19:36:15 <sipa> luke-jr: and what would be next one be? 2.0 or 1.22?
4262020-10-22T19:36:21 <achow101> luke-jr: but that 1 is meaningless like 0 is now
4272020-10-22T19:36:30 <sipa> (the "next" one as in what would otherwise become 0.22)
4282020-10-22T19:36:30 <wumpus> having a static 1 at the beginning would be the same as a 0
4292020-10-22T19:36:33 <wumpus> right
4302020-10-22T19:36:35 <sipa> wumpus: indeed
4312020-10-22T19:37:08 <luke-jr> sipa: I don't agree⦠major versions rarely reach 20+â¦
4322020-10-22T19:37:36 <luke-jr> sipa: next could be 1.22 or 2.0 depending non what we think its significance is
4332020-10-22T19:37:44 <luke-jr> on*
4342020-10-22T19:37:45 <michaelfolkson> Could cause some limited confusion with references to previous 0. versions
4352020-10-22T19:37:50 <jonatack> I found the versioning mildly unusual at first, nevertheless am unsure it's worth fixing at this point
4362020-10-22T19:37:50 <wumpus> that's not how it works with our project
4372020-10-22T19:37:52 <achow101> luke-jr: and yet here we are with a version number that's ostensibly major at 21
4382020-10-22T19:38:03 <wumpus> we don't judge significance of versions and have a fixed release schedule
4392020-10-22T19:38:20 <luke-jr> achow101: but it really isnt
4402020-10-22T19:38:21 <emzy> I feel having a high number in front of the dot is more marketing related.
4412020-10-22T19:38:29 <wumpus> if we change the version scheme it should be to better reflect what we're actually doing
4422020-10-22T19:38:30 <michaelfolkson> Replace questions on when 1.0 with questions on what happened from 0.21 to 22.0
4432020-10-22T19:38:56 <achow101> luke-jr: we call it a major release..
4442020-10-22T19:38:56 <wumpus> not what other projects are doing
4452020-10-22T19:39:07 <luke-jr> bugfixes increment the 3rd int
4462020-10-22T19:39:18 <achow101> michaelfolkson: but that's way easier to explain
4472020-10-22T19:39:31 <sipa> luke-jr: if we'd actually also switch to releases that are based on magnitude of changes, but i don't think that's what we're doing
4482020-10-22T19:39:42 <sipa> our numbers are already just an indication of time
4492020-10-22T19:39:58 <luke-jr> magnitude would only determine 2.0 vs 1.22
4502020-10-22T19:40:33 *** bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4512020-10-22T19:40:33 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonasschnelli pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/88271184e822...9453fbf5a022
4522020-10-22T19:40:34 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6ed4bca Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Wrap tooltips in the intro window
4532020-10-22T19:40:34 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9453fbf Jonas Schnelli: Merge #20: Wrap tooltips in the intro window
4542020-10-22T19:40:42 <luke-jr> it's not like versions are the release schedule
4552020-10-22T19:40:45 *** bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev
4562020-10-22T19:41:13 *** qubenix has quit IRC
4572020-10-22T19:41:20 <wumpus> we do not classify versions by magnitude, the whole reason for proposing to remove the 0. would be to get rid of that illusion (for some people) once and for all
4582020-10-22T19:41:21 <achow101> luke-jr: there are software with high major versions. e.g. pip
4592020-10-22T19:41:48 <wumpus> firefo
4602020-10-22T19:41:50 <sipa> https://bitcoincore.org/en/lifecycle/
4612020-10-22T19:41:54 <achow101> chrome
4622020-10-22T19:41:54 <sipa> Bitcoin Core releases are versioned as follows: 0.MAJOR.MINOR, and release candidates are suffixed with rc1, rc2 etc.
4632020-10-22T19:41:58 <sipa> We aim to make a major release every 6-7 months.
4642020-10-22T19:42:02 <luke-jr> wumpus: well thats what versions are for
4652020-10-22T19:42:02 *** qubenix has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4662020-10-22T19:42:32 <wumpus> luke-jr: not in this project
4672020-10-22T19:42:53 <luke-jr> sigh
4682020-10-22T19:43:36 <luke-jr> then everything should be 1.x forever
4692020-10-22T19:43:47 <achow101> then that's just as meaningless
4702020-10-22T19:43:49 <sipa> that's no better than 0.x forever
4712020-10-22T19:44:08 <achow101> and then we'll get questions about for when 2.0
4722020-10-22T19:44:12 <wumpus> going in circles now
4732020-10-22T19:44:22 <luke-jr> either we should classify or not⦠-.-
4742020-10-22T19:44:55 <wumpus> we don't and we won't, the only proposal is to remove a useless 0. that pretty much everyone already leaves out anyway
4752020-10-22T19:45:36 <achow101> do we want it for this release or the next?
4762020-10-22T19:45:42 <luke-jr> it's not useless and people leaving it off should stop so long as it's there
4772020-10-22T19:45:45 <wumpus> this is too late for 0.21 imo
4782020-10-22T19:45:58 <wumpus> I don't see any reason to push this last minute
4792020-10-22T19:46:04 <achow101> sure
4802020-10-22T19:46:06 <sipa> luke-jr: they won't stop given that it's meaningless
4812020-10-22T19:46:32 <sipa> our versioning scheme is literally 0.MAJOR.MINOR; the 0. serves no function
4822020-10-22T19:46:32 <fjahr> Major versions means breaking API changes. If we say breaking API changes are breaking consensus changes in Bitcoin wouldn't it make sense to keep 0.x until we have to do a hardfork? I know that's not how people think of the versioning but I think that would make sense.
4832020-10-22T19:47:27 <luke-jr> fjahr: Core and Bitcoin are different things
4842020-10-22T19:47:35 <wumpus> no, the versioning ahs nothing to do with forks and hardforks
4852020-10-22T19:47:44 <wumpus> luke-jr: exactly
4862020-10-22T19:47:45 <sipa> firefox's versioning scheme is not based on which HTML version they support
4872020-10-22T19:47:47 <fjahr> ok
4882020-10-22T19:48:05 <michaelfolkson> I thought it was an interesting idea fjahr
4892020-10-22T19:48:09 <achow101> fjahr: then we'd be on version 5 or something like that with the changes satoshi made early on
4902020-10-22T19:48:19 <luke-jr> sipa: its really 0.minor.bugfixi
4912020-10-22T19:48:26 <sipa> luke-jr: it's on our site
4922020-10-22T19:48:40 <luke-jr> then the site is wrong
4932020-10-22T19:48:58 <achow101> luke-jr: we refer to every 0.x release as a major release
4942020-10-22T19:49:27 <luke-jr> so 21.0.bugfix,l 22.0.bugfix?
4952020-10-22T19:49:59 <luke-jr> looks silly imo but at least it can make some sense2â¦
4962020-10-22T19:50:08 <michaelfolkson> Ditching the zero assumes we will *never* have a use for it. Any reason for redundancy here however fanciful?
4972020-10-22T19:50:23 <emzy> luke-jr: there was a 0.19.0.1
4982020-10-22T19:50:35 <luke-jr> emzy: I'm aware
4992020-10-22T19:50:43 <sipa> michaelfolkson: that's exactly the problem
5002020-10-22T19:50:58 <sipa> michaelfolkson: nobody has an answer to the question "what would constitute something worthy of a 1.x release"
5012020-10-22T19:51:01 <luke-jr> ?
5022020-10-22T19:51:23 <luke-jr> we should really be past 1.0
5032020-10-22T19:51:59 <sipa> yes, we do a major release every 6-7 months!
5042020-10-22T19:52:45 <michaelfolkson> If the redundancy is entirely unnecessary for all possible future scenarios I think get rid of it. Just so this discussion doesn't keep coming up (assuming there are no downsides other than a little user confusion)
5052020-10-22T19:52:52 <luke-jr> if its not major enough to get 1.0, it's not major ;)
5062020-10-22T19:53:06 <sipa> luke-jr: circular reasoning gets us nowhere
5072020-10-22T19:53:16 <wumpus> michaelfolkson: I agree
5082020-10-22T19:53:26 <luke-jr> sipa: circular?
5092020-10-22T19:53:46 <luke-jr> 1.0 is no more importwant that 22.0
5102020-10-22T19:53:53 <wumpus> michaelfolkson: that would be the only reason to do it, really, in the end it's just a number and doesn't matter that much, there's no strong reason to change anything
5112020-10-22T19:54:10 <achow101> luke-jr: 1.0 has a meaning to dumb humans
5122020-10-22T19:54:16 <luke-jr> if we can't do 1.0 because its not important enough, it shoouldnt be 22.0 either
5132020-10-22T19:54:37 <achow101> 1.0 is a magic number even if it shouldn't be
5142020-10-22T19:54:49 <sipa> i think none of this matters
5152020-10-22T19:54:59 <luke-jr> it won't be 2 years later
5162020-10-22T19:55:11 <sipa> our release process is around time-based releases, and our version numbers _are_ time-based too
5172020-10-22T19:56:15 <sipa> however much you'd like that to be different, the number X in 0.X.Y doesn't mean anything else but "the series of stable releases forked off at a point in time depending on X"
5182020-10-22T19:56:16 <luke-jr> then do a calendar version like Ubuntu? :/
5192020-10-22T19:56:32 <luke-jr> I prefer semver, but at least we should use some stabdardâ¦
5202020-10-22T19:56:53 <wumpus> 5 minutes to go
5212020-10-22T19:56:56 <sipa> it doesn't convey magnitude of changes, and without substantial changes to our release process, they won't be
5222020-10-22T19:56:58 <achow101> luke-jr: i'd honestly prefer a calendar version, but dropping 0 is the simplest and least confusing change to make
5232020-10-22T19:57:03 <sipa> luke-jr: firefox? chrome?
5242020-10-22T19:57:27 <emzy> achow101: +1
5252020-10-22T19:57:39 <luke-jr> actually this is our one chance to switch to calendar cleanly
5262020-10-22T19:57:53 <achow101> luke-jr: ikr. I proposed that for 0.20
5272020-10-22T19:58:15 <luke-jr> sipa: nt for bugfixes
5282020-10-22T20:01:06 <wumpus> #endmeeting
5292020-10-22T20:01:06 <lightningbot> Meeting ended Thu Oct 22 20:01:06 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
5302020-10-22T20:01:06 <lightningbot> Minutes: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-10-22-18.59.html
5312020-10-22T20:01:06 <lightningbot> Minutes (text): http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-10-22-18.59.txt
5322020-10-22T20:01:06 <lightningbot> Log: http://www.erisian.com.au/meetbot/bitcoin-core-dev/2020/bitcoin-core-dev.2020-10-22-18.59.log.html
5332020-10-22T20:01:17 <jonatack> Wallet meeting tomorrow?
5342020-10-22T20:01:27 <jonasschnelli> Oh no. I think I messed up my first GUI repository merge. Made it the "wrong way" (so messed up bitcoin/bitcoin).
5352020-10-22T20:01:46 <jonatack> #walletmeetingtopic standardize feerate unit on sat/vB (or sat/kvB... or sat/sipa...)
5362020-10-22T20:01:46 <jonasschnelli> Unsure how to proceed now...
5372020-10-22T20:02:08 <jonasschnelli> I probably messed up the SHA512 tree.
5382020-10-22T20:02:50 <achow101> jonatack: yes
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5402020-10-22T20:04:40 <michaelfolkson> Where can you see the topics for these meetings?
5412020-10-22T20:05:00 <jonatack> achow101: ð c u there
5422020-10-22T20:05:12 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: do you have an idea how to correct my latest merge: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/master?
5432020-10-22T20:05:36 <jonasschnelli> I guess a force push is a no go ... :|
5442020-10-22T20:05:39 <achow101> michaelfolkson: http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt and http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
5452020-10-22T20:05:55 <michaelfolkson> Thanks achow101
5462020-10-22T20:06:25 <achow101> jonasschnelli: it doesn't seem that messed up except the commit message is wrong
5472020-10-22T20:06:40 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: let me see
5482020-10-22T20:06:54 <jonasschnelli> achow101: Yes. It's just the commit message
5492020-10-22T20:07:47 <jonasschnelli> (which includes the Tree-SHA512)
5502020-10-22T20:09:19 <wumpus> so the only thing wrong is the PR # in the commit message?
5512020-10-22T20:09:44 <wumpus> the Tree-SHA256, signature looks to be ok
5522020-10-22T20:10:02 <wumpus> and you did intend to merge this?
5532020-10-22T20:10:18 <wumpus> if so, I don't think this warrants a force push no
5542020-10-22T20:10:45 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: yes. It was an intentional merge. I just used the github-merge tool the wrong way
5552020-10-22T20:11:13 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Oh. Right. The SHA512 should be right as it is the same in the GUI repository
5562020-10-22T20:11:36 <jonasschnelli> It is then just the title... which I think is bad but probably not worth a force push
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5582020-10-22T20:13:52 <luke-jr> sipa: Chromium's version is 4 ints, with bugfixes apparently the 4th; Firefox's are 3 ints, with bugfixes apparently the 3rd; both with marketting-specific inflated major versions
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5622020-10-22T20:15:36 <yanmaani> Does the Bitcoin Core RPC use HTTP 2.0? Is there any way to query it asynchronously?
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5642020-10-22T20:15:55 <yanmaani> (other than making a new thread for each connection or using a thread pool)
5652020-10-22T20:15:56 <luke-jr> if we're going to switch to calendar, we should just rename 0.21 to 20.11 for a clean continuity
5662020-10-22T20:16:10 <luke-jr> yanmaani: that is entirely up to your RPC interface..
5672020-10-22T20:22:53 <achow101> luke-jr: I think our versioning pretty closely resembles firefox's actually
5682020-10-22T20:23:00 <achow101> I also don't understand chrome's
5692020-10-22T20:24:19 <achow101> the inflated versioning is only because they make releases every 2 months
5702020-10-22T20:25:45 <luke-jr> achow101: IIRC they did a huge skip a few years ago
5712020-10-22T20:26:56 <luke-jr> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_version_history suggests I'm wrong
5722020-10-22T20:27:25 <achow101> luke-jr: all I remember is that firefox just wasn't relevant for a while
5732020-10-22T20:27:56 <luke-jr> they had a 33.1, but otherwise it looks like almost all their minor versions are 0
5742020-10-22T20:28:16 <achow101> 68 has a bunch of minor releases
5752020-10-22T20:28:45 <achow101> seems like they primarily use minor versions for the esr releases
5762020-10-22T20:32:50 <luke-jr> I guess that makes sense
5772020-10-22T20:33:00 <luke-jr> I assume not for just fixes
5782020-10-22T20:33:38 <luke-jr> major.0.bugfix leaves the door open if anyone wants to do some kind of backports-only interim releases
5792020-10-22T20:34:24 <achow101> .. all of our minor releases are backports only
5802020-10-22T20:34:41 <luke-jr> bugfixes only
5812020-10-22T20:34:45 <luke-jr> which is the 3rd int
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5832020-10-22T20:35:12 <achow101> firefox esr releases are only bug and security fixes only
5842020-10-22T20:38:25 <luke-jr> well, that's not a standard use for int 2
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5952020-10-22T21:10:01 <yanmaani> luke-jr: You could release 0.21 now, keep it through 2021, and then have 0.22 be the 2022 release as well. You don't have to do it retroactively
5962020-10-22T21:10:25 <yanmaani> Wht do you mean 'my RPC interface'? Caller is whatever, but does the server support HTTP 2.0?
5972020-10-22T21:11:17 <meshcollider> yanmaani: we release ~twice per year not just once
5982020-10-22T21:12:22 <yanmaani> meshcollider: well just stop doing that then :)
5992020-10-22T21:12:37 <yanmaani> have minor versions be 'month of release' after say June 2021
6002020-10-22T21:14:44 <luke-jr> yanmaani: HTTP 1.0 can be done async just fine
6012020-10-22T21:14:58 <luke-jr> sync vs async is entirely your JSON-RPC interface/library
6022020-10-22T21:15:09 <yanmaani> luke-jr: Yes but I'll have to start more connections
6032020-10-22T21:15:37 <luke-jr> so?
6042020-10-22T21:15:39 <yanmaani> If I want to make 10 requests that take 100ms of wall-clock time each, then I'll need to open 1 connection with HTTP 2.0 and 10 with HTTP 1.0
6052020-10-22T21:15:51 <yanmaani> It's more implementation work, and probably slightly more resource intensive
6062020-10-22T21:17:00 <luke-jr> it's less because you don't need the logic to determine when you need more connections :P
6072020-10-22T21:17:09 <luke-jr> less impl work*
6082020-10-22T21:17:28 <yanmaani> And because I need to keep the state of which sockets are blocked.
6092020-10-22T21:17:41 <luke-jr> or just open a connection per request *shrug*
6102020-10-22T21:18:13 <yanmaani> yep. How much resources does it take to open say 100 threads?
6112020-10-22T21:18:24 <luke-jr> well, you can always do it async ;)
6122020-10-22T21:18:24 <yanmaani> send to threads[rand() % 100], hope for the best
6132020-10-22T21:18:53 <yanmaani> gotta keep them open too
6142020-10-22T21:19:01 <yanmaani> like does it just need a few MB of RAM, or something more?
6152020-10-22T21:19:16 <luke-jr> anyway, Core uses libevent for the HTTP server
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6172020-10-22T21:19:54 <luke-jr> yanmaani: there is nothing to stop a single thread from managing many connections each with one request
6182020-10-22T21:19:59 <yanmaani> with evhttp?
6192020-10-22T21:20:08 <luke-jr> yes
6202020-10-22T21:20:10 <yanmaani> I mean thread in bitcoind
6212020-10-22T21:20:15 <luke-jr> ah
6222020-10-22T21:20:18 <yanmaani> there's a setting "RPC threads", default was 4 on my machine
6232020-10-22T21:21:03 <luke-jr> well, if you have N requests you want to run simultaneously, you're going to have N threads Core side to do it
6242020-10-22T21:21:35 <yanmaani> Does it gain you anything to have >N connections then?
6252020-10-22T21:21:54 <luke-jr> probably not, just a matter of what's easier for you to do
6262020-10-22T21:22:04 <yanmaani> and what's the performance cost in spinning up a gazillion threads?
6272020-10-22T21:22:10 <luke-jr> if you don't mind them running in sequence, you might consider batching
6282020-10-22T21:22:49 <yanmaani> yeah, I might just do that, have a separate piece of code exposing an async API and then just have a queue + thread pool monstrosity hidden behind there
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6522020-10-22T23:08:47 <yanmaani> Would a PR to add an option to make Bitcoin Core crash/quit if an incorrect RPC password attempt is made be welcomed?
6532020-10-22T23:15:18 <luke-jr> yanmaani: I think I would ACK it as an option
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6562020-10-22T23:17:09 <yanmaani> cool
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6592020-10-22T23:32:48 <luke-jr> yanmaani: keep in mind it could become a DoS risk
6602020-10-22T23:35:03 <yanmaani> luke-jr: That's the point, to degrade a security risk to a DoS risk
6612020-10-22T23:35:33 <yanmaani> "oops I exposed my RPC port, my money is gone" -> "oops I exposed my RPC port, I'll have to restart my node"
6622020-10-22T23:36:20 <luke-jr> right
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6642020-10-22T23:48:46 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #20215: doc: CI system link added, clarity increased (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20215
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