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 112021-04-14T01:15:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #21672: doc: remove boostrap info from GUIX_COMMON_FLAGS doc (master...fixup_guix_options) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21672
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 242021-04-14T02:09:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 8 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a1f0b8b62eb8...e7af2f35af95
 252021-04-14T02:09:17  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 54569cc fanquake: refactor: move all signer code inside ENABLE_EXTERNAL_SIGNER #ifdefs
 262021-04-14T02:09:17  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f4652bf fanquake: refactor: add missing includes to external signer code
 272021-04-14T02:09:18  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8fdbb89 fanquake: refactor: unify external wallet runtime errors
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 302021-04-14T02:09:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #21666: Miscellaneous external signer changes (master...external_signer_followups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21666
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 882021-04-14T06:33:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #21675: ci: Only cache depends/sdk-sources for macos task in cirrus (master...2104-ciSdkMacosOnly) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21675
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1172021-04-14T07:23:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e7af2f35af95...b8e5bbdf93e5
1182021-04-14T07:23:15  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fadbd99 MarcoFalke: test: Remove spurious double lock tsan suppressions by bumping to clang-12
1192021-04-14T07:23:16  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fadea0b MarcoFalke: Revert "test: Add tsan supp for leveldb::DBImpl::DeleteObsoleteFiles"
1202021-04-14T07:23:17  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b8e5bbd MarcoFalke: Merge #21669: test: Remove spurious double lock tsan suppressions by bumpi...
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1232021-04-14T07:23:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21669: test: Remove spurious double lock tsan suppressions by bumping to clang-12 (master...2104-tsanSupp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21669
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1332021-04-14T07:41:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild closed pull request #21668: net: properly handle PF_NOBAN in CConnman::Bind() (master...fix_pf_noban_usage) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21668
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1362021-04-14T07:47:34  <wumpus> jeremyrubin: i don't know i hope no one owns it and it's not governed" tbh
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1452021-04-14T08:08:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #21676: test: Use mocktime to avoid intermittent failure in rpc_tests (master...2104-testFixMocktime) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21676
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1542021-04-14T09:00:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #21677: fuzz: Avoid use of low file descriptor ids (which may be in use) in FuzzedSock (master...avoid-open-fds-when-fuzzing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21677
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1692021-04-14T10:29:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21678: test: Fix TSan suppression (master...210414-deadlock) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21678
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1892021-04-14T12:18:02  <bitcoin-git> [gui] laanwj merged pull request #260: Handle exceptions instead of crash (master...210326-ex) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/260
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1922021-04-14T12:18:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 8 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b8e5bbdf93e5...03ecceedf6f1
1932021-04-14T12:18:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master af7e365 Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Make PACKAGE_BUGREPORT link clickable
1942021-04-14T12:18:24  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 64a8755 Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Add BitcoinApplication::handleNonFatalException function
1952021-04-14T12:18:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f7e260a Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Add GUIUtil::ExceptionSafeConnect function
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1982021-04-14T12:38:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery closed pull request #21533: mining: Remove unused extranonce logic (master...2021-03-extra-nonce) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21533
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2042021-04-14T13:14:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/03ecceedf6f1...a12962ca8940
2052021-04-14T13:14:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa73ce6 MarcoFalke: Fix assumeutxo crash due to truncated file
2062021-04-14T13:14:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a12962c MarcoFalke: Merge #21585: Fix assumeutxo crash due to truncated file
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2092021-04-14T13:14:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21585: Fix assumeutxo crash due to truncated file (master...2104-assumeutxoCrash03) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21585
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2202021-04-14T13:45:48  <prayank> harding: Request you to review this PR: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21157
2212021-04-14T13:45:56  <prayank> TL;DR - 1 commit. No code. Tor docs. Reviewed by 8 or more people in last 2 months.
2222021-04-14T13:46:05  <prayank> A. Highlight DNS requests part B. Add 1 example in the end C. Add 4 Privacy recommendations D. Mention about `onlynet=i2p`
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2262021-04-14T13:57:03  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: that's not how trademarks law works
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2292021-04-14T14:09:29  <wumpus> prayank: i'll take a look as well, good to see nyx (the tor node monitor) is still a thing
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2312021-04-14T14:10:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] promag opened pull request #21679: rpc: Keep default argument value in correct type (master...2021-04-rpc-defaults) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21679
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2342021-04-14T14:12:16  <prayank> wumpus: Thanks
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2372021-04-14T14:16:18  <Kiminuo> Hi, I'm working on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21422. Would you mind saying "concept ACK" if you find it useful?
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2392021-04-14T14:19:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21680: test: Use called_from_lib to point uninstrumented libs to TSan (master...210414-tsan) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21680
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2442021-04-14T14:32:52  <wumpus> #21422
2452021-04-14T14:32:55  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21422 | Add feerate histogram to getmempoolinfo by kiminuo · Pull Request #21422 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2532021-04-14T14:41:00  <_Sam--> Hi I just wanted to say thank you for doing all that work to make bitcoin.  I appreciate you.  I sit around and don't do anything, and make money just because of the work you did.   Thanks dudes/girls.  Have a nice day.
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2552021-04-14T14:41:17  <wumpus> thank you!
2562021-04-14T14:43:21  <Kiminuo> :D
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2582021-04-14T14:45:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a12962ca8940...8c867ed4ec6c
2592021-04-14T14:45:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 11115c8 MarcoFalke: ci: Only cache depends/sdk-sources for macos/apk task in cirrus
2602021-04-14T14:45:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8c867ed MarcoFalke: Merge #21675: ci: Only cache depends/sdk-sources for macos/apk task in cir...
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2632021-04-14T14:46:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21675: ci: Only cache depends/sdk-sources for macos/apk task in cirrus (master...2104-ciSdkMacosOnly) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21675
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2692021-04-14T14:53:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8c867ed4ec6c...773f8c1a7d56
2702021-04-14T14:53:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f2ef5a8 Hennadii Stepanov: test: Fix TSan suppression
2712021-04-14T14:53:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 773f8c1 MarcoFalke: Merge #21678: test: Fix TestPotentialDeadLockDetected suppression
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2742021-04-14T14:54:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21678: test: Fix TestPotentialDeadLockDetected suppression (master...210414-deadlock) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21678
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2792021-04-14T15:17:16  <achow101> #21377 rtm? Has 9 ACKs
2802021-04-14T15:17:20  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21377 | Speedy trial support for versionbits by ajtowns · Pull Request #21377 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2812021-04-14T15:20:27  <wumpus> i hope so it would be good to do the speedy trial thing, speedy i guess
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3072021-04-14T17:06:14  <bitcoin-git> [gui] jarolrod opened pull request #281: qt: set shortcuts for console's resize buttons (master...mul-shortcuts-resize) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/281
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3092021-04-14T17:07:06  <luke-jr> achow101: NACK
3102021-04-14T17:08:52  <luke-jr> Developers do not get to strong-arm protocol changes any more than miners do.
3112021-04-14T17:09:12  <luke-jr> stop with this NYA attempt
3122021-04-14T17:10:56  <sipa> as far as i can see based on comments on the bip change and implementation, there seems pretty wide community consensus
3132021-04-14T17:11:27  <sipa> i haven't followed all discussions everywhere of course
3142021-04-14T17:11:56  *** cec <cec!aedb0499@153.sub-174-219-4.myvzw.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed)
3152021-04-14T17:11:57  <sipa> but you can't just say "no community consensus" while only showing evidence of yourself disagreeing
3162021-04-14T17:12:57  *** cec <cec!aedb0499@153.sub-174-219-4.myvzw.com> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3172021-04-14T17:13:58  <jamesob> fwiw I'm an unreported concept ACK on #21377 and am in the process of reviewing the code
3182021-04-14T17:14:01  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21377 | Speedy trial support for versionbits by ajtowns · Pull Request #21377 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3192021-04-14T17:14:05  <jeremyrubin> I also have asked previously for a definition of terms https://gist.github.com/michaelfolkson/92899f27f1ab30aa2ebee82314f8fe7f#gistcomment-3701878 to elucidate what luke is saying when he says "X does not have community consensus but Y does"
3202021-04-14T17:14:30  <jeremyrubin> I'll reiterate here: luke-jr luke-jr can you give a definition for what consensus is? Is there a concrete and consistent definition you are applying that BIP8 LOT=true is satisfying that the current ST MTP start/stop + height of activation minimum is not meeting that can be applied here and in the future?
3212021-04-14T17:15:35  <luke-jr> sipa: there is wide community consensus around BIP 8
3222021-04-14T17:15:54  <sipa> where is that community?
3232021-04-14T17:15:57  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: stop strawmanning
3242021-04-14T17:16:00  <luke-jr> sipa: all over the world?
3252021-04-14T17:17:13  <sipa> this seems like a pointless discussion
3262021-04-14T17:17:32  <jeremyrubin> I don't think that's a strawman? I've asked you to generalize. If you can't do that then I don't think anyone will listen
3272021-04-14T17:17:50  <luke-jr> yes, I don't know what there is to discuss. devs simply cannot force changes without communtiy support.
3282021-04-14T17:18:05  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: I have never said nor implied LOT=True has consensus
3292021-04-14T17:18:16  <sipa> well someone makes a proposal, and as far as i can see, there seems agreement about that proposal
3302021-04-14T17:18:19  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: and there is zero indication ST/MTP has any kind of consensus
3312021-04-14T17:18:26  *** cguida <cguida!~Adium@2601:282:200:ae00:3dcc:eebe:8776:8907> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3322021-04-14T17:18:28  <luke-jr> sipa: there is agreement on BIP8, yes
3332021-04-14T17:18:31  <wumpus> if merging anything with regard to taproot activation is 'forcing changes' that only leaves UASF
3342021-04-14T17:18:38  <luke-jr> sipa: 21377 is opposed to the agreement
3352021-04-14T17:19:14  <jonatack> jamesob: achow101: same, i'm still reviewing. did a first pass to get the code and bips in my head, need to do another one
3362021-04-14T17:19:36  <sipa> luke-jr: there are tons of ACKs on the BIP PR, and the implementation; isn't that indication?
3372021-04-14T17:19:39  <wumpus> it means core can no longer activate softforks by itself but it always needs a third party group to push their own client
3382021-04-14T17:19:49  <luke-jr> sipa: ACKs are developers
3392021-04-14T17:20:03  <sipa> luke-jr: yes, that's why i ask about other evidence
3402021-04-14T17:20:15  <luke-jr> sipa: talk to people?
3412021-04-14T17:20:22  <wumpus> i am somewhat disappointment that we could not reacha agreement around something everyone seems to want
3422021-04-14T17:20:25  <sipa> that's not my job
3432021-04-14T17:20:26  *** cguida <cguida!~Adium@2601:282:200:ae00:3dcc:eebe:8776:8907> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
3442021-04-14T17:20:32  <wumpus> but that is how it is
3452021-04-14T17:20:34  <luke-jr> sipa: well, that's how you get evidence
3462021-04-14T17:20:37  <achow101> The only person who has expressed explicit discontent with 21377 is luke-jr
3472021-04-14T17:20:46  <jamesob> luke-jr: people who aren't following these PRs probably aren't the ones you'd want opining on activation strategy
3482021-04-14T17:21:03  <achow101> everyone else I have spoken to (in various meetings and elsewhere) are okay with 21377
3492021-04-14T17:21:10  <jamesob> if someone takes issue with a particular means of activation, there is nothing stopping them from commenting on 21377
3502021-04-14T17:21:16  <luke-jr> jamesob: I reject absolutely the premise that developers alone decide protocol changes.
3512021-04-14T17:21:24  <jamesob> nobody is saying that
3522021-04-14T17:21:50  <jeremyrubin> you either die a user or live long enough to become a developer
3532021-04-14T17:21:56  <luke-jr> GitHub and this channel are developer forums
3542021-04-14T17:21:58  <jamesob> jeremyrubin: lol
3552021-04-14T17:22:05  <wumpus> luke-jr: that is not the case anyhow, if there is widespread disagreement, they won't install the client version wit hthe softfork activation
3562021-04-14T17:22:05  <sipa> luke-jr: i don't think that's the case here
3572021-04-14T17:22:13  <jamesob> luke-jr: forums that are not gated in any way
3582021-04-14T17:22:24  <luke-jr> jamesob: actually, GitHub is, but let's not go off on that tangent
3592021-04-14T17:22:35  <luke-jr> wumpus: that doesn't mean it's okay to release such a thing
3602021-04-14T17:22:58  <wumpus> luke-jr: in any case, you are effectively blocking taproot activation right now
3612021-04-14T17:23:03  <luke-jr> wumpus: no, I am not
3622021-04-14T17:23:07  <wumpus> luke-jr: i do not know if that is your intent but you are doing it
3632021-04-14T17:23:27  <luke-jr> wumpus: I am helping users who are prepared to release something appropriate if Core will not
3642021-04-14T17:23:31  <michaelfolkson> I personally am very uncomfortable by this precedent
3652021-04-14T17:23:46  <luke-jr> instead of trying to strong-arm the community to using a flawed activation method
3662021-04-14T17:24:00  <michaelfolkson> One developer (aj) is preventing block heights from being used consistently
3672021-04-14T17:24:09  <achow101> luke-jr: you're the one trying to strongarm the community into using your preferred activation method
3682021-04-14T17:24:15  <jnewbery> michaelfolkson: please stop. That's clearly not the case
3692021-04-14T17:24:15  <luke-jr> achow101: liar
3702021-04-14T17:24:17  <jamesob> luke-jr: you are begging the question there; you seem to be the only person around here who thinks the method is flawed
3712021-04-14T17:24:24  <achow101> this is the billionth time we've had this discussion and it's absolutely pointless
3722021-04-14T17:24:35  <achow101> there is community consensus for 21377
3732021-04-14T17:24:37  <michaelfolkson> There is no reason to not use block heights consistently, it is farcical
3742021-04-14T17:25:06  <michaelfolkson> It will set a precedent for future Core versus alternative client battles over block height and MTP which are totally unnecessary
3752021-04-14T17:25:13  *** mars <mars!~niamh@aaubervilliers-654-1-61-83.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3762021-04-14T17:25:13  *** mol <mol!~mol@unaffiliated/molly> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3772021-04-14T17:25:23  <jamesob> michaelfolkson: code churn on a consensus-critical part of the system seems like a pretty good reason
3782021-04-14T17:25:23  <sipa> michaelfolkson: as far as i can see, this is all a storm in a teapot, and my only concern is that there is a single proposal pushed forward to avoid fragmentation
3792021-04-14T17:25:24  <luke-jr> 21377 would make Core an enemy of Bitcoin
3802021-04-14T17:25:32  <michaelfolkson> The clear thing to do is ask aj to use block heights consistently
3812021-04-14T17:25:35  <jeremyrubin> [4/14/21 10:18] <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: I have never said nor implied LOT=True has consensus
3822021-04-14T17:25:37  <jeremyrubin>  [Tuesday, March 9, 2021] [10:13:51 AM PST] <luke-jr>    RusAlex: no consensus, but LOT=True has sufficient support to move forward
3832021-04-14T17:25:43  <michaelfolkson> The fact that no one is is just shocking to me
3842021-04-14T17:26:05  <achow101> michaelfolkson: YOU THINK I DIDN"T ASK?????
3852021-04-14T17:26:29  <michaelfolkson> Why risk a split network with Core and the alternative client over mix of block height and MTP? Totally nonsense
3862021-04-14T17:26:36  <jeremyrubin>  [Saturday, March 13, 2021] [4:37:57 PM PST] <luke-jr>   AaronvanW: but IMO we have(had?) basically consensus on everything but LOT, so we should just use that.
3872021-04-14T17:26:42  <sipa> michaelfolkson: wut?
3882021-04-14T17:26:52  <sipa> michaelfolkson: this is ridiculous
3892021-04-14T17:26:57  <achow101> michaelfolkson: why risk a split network by having an alternative client?
3902021-04-14T17:26:59  <jeremyrubin> I think it's accurate for you to say you haven't implied LOT has consensus, but by your actions you're forcing a release without consensus
3912021-04-14T17:27:03  <achow101> that's the qusetion for you to ask
3922021-04-14T17:27:27  <michaelfolkson> sipa: There is an alternative client implementing Speedy Trial (consistent block height) followed by BIP 8 (LOT=true, 1 year)
3932021-04-14T17:27:42  <sipa> michaelfolkson: where? pushed by whom?
3942021-04-14T17:27:48  <sipa> who will run it?
3952021-04-14T17:27:50  <luke-jr> achow101: because Core refuses to do the right thing and merge what has community consensus
3962021-04-14T17:27:51  <michaelfolkson> sipa: By using this dumb mix of MTP and block height in Core we are risking a split network
3972021-04-14T17:28:00  <michaelfolkson> It is just ridiculous
3982021-04-14T17:28:14  <achow101> in any case, assuming blocks are found at the rate that they have been found for the past several years, MTP ST and the alternative client will be in agreement
3992021-04-14T17:28:23  <jeremyrubin> achow101: +1
4002021-04-14T17:28:26  <michaelfolkson> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-April/018783.html
4012021-04-14T17:28:31  <sipa> michaelfolkson: you're the only one claiming that, as far as i can see (again, i have not seen all discussion)
4022021-04-14T17:29:00  <michaelfolkson> Because one developer (aj) with really weak rationale won't use block heights consistently?
4032021-04-14T17:29:08  <luke-jr> achow101: I agree, but ST/MTP still lacks community support and seems to outright be spitting on consensus
4042021-04-14T17:29:28  <achow101> luke-jr: the only one spitting on consensus is you refusing to accept that there is consensus for MTP ST
4052021-04-14T17:29:33  <luke-jr> achow101: there isn't
4062021-04-14T17:29:49  <sipa> michaelfolkson: i really don't care about aesthetical concerns; i care about what agreement there is on a path forward
4072021-04-14T17:29:50  <michaelfolkson> aj has his PR being used, someone please ask him to use block heights consistently to prevent risk of split network
4082021-04-14T17:29:50  <luke-jr> there are some developers trying to strong-arm it in without community support
4092021-04-14T17:29:53  <achow101> you keep asserting that but refuse to provide any such evidence
4102021-04-14T17:30:27  <mol> achow101, +1
4112021-04-14T17:30:27  <sipa> michaelfolkson: and as far as i can see, you're trying to turn an aesthetical argument as evidence of a risk for splitting
4122021-04-14T17:30:43  <michaelfolkson> AJ is literally only one opposing consistent use of block height https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21377#issuecomment-818758277
4132021-04-14T17:31:01  <sipa> michaelfolkson: who cares? there is a proposal that seems people like
4142021-04-14T17:31:22  <achow101> and he has provided a rationale for it that is not addressed by a block height proposal
4152021-04-14T17:31:22  <michaelfolkson> Well do you care about the possibility of a split network?
4162021-04-14T17:31:35  <sipa> michaelfolkson: yes, absolutely, that's the only thing i care about
4172021-04-14T17:31:51  <luke-jr> sigh
4182021-04-14T17:32:18  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4192021-04-14T17:32:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jamesob opened pull request #21681: validation: fix ActivateSnapshot to use hardcoded nChainTx (master...2021-04-au-nchaintx-fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21681
4202021-04-14T17:32:19  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
4212021-04-14T17:33:00  <michaelfolkson> You have a contributor of 10 years who is probably the biggest expert on activation here, author of BIP 8, involved with UASF and he is NACKing this. Please just consider what you are doing
4222021-04-14T17:33:02  <achow101> I will restate my earlier statment: 21377 is rtm. It has 9 ACKs, and 1 unmotivated (no reason given) NACK. Said NACK can be ignored as it does not provide a reason
4232021-04-14T17:33:25  <achow101> a NACK with no reason provided can be ignored as stated in our contributor guidelines
4242021-04-14T17:33:37  <michaelfolkson> For what? AJ's test networks? Seriously....
4252021-04-14T17:33:42  <luke-jr> achow101: developer ACKs withotu community agreement isn't enough for protocol changes; and I gave reasons
4262021-04-14T17:33:49  <luke-jr> (as have many others including yourself!)
4272021-04-14T17:34:06  *** lightlike <lightlike!~lightlike@p200300c7ef169b008d78383155562f3b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
4282021-04-14T17:34:13  <jeremyrubin> luke-jr can you give a definition for what consensus is? Is there a concrete and consistent definition you are applying that BIP8 LOT=true is satisfying that the current ST MTP start/stop + height of activation minimum is not meeting that can be applied here and in the future?
4292021-04-14T17:34:21  <michaelfolkson> We are willing to risk a split network over AJ's test networks. I'm staggered
4302021-04-14T17:34:23  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: stop spamming
4312021-04-14T17:34:35  <jeremyrubin> It's a legit question that you've ignored
4322021-04-14T17:34:37  <sipa> michaelfolkson: i cannot comprehend where this is coming from
4332021-04-14T17:34:41  <luke-jr> no, it isn't
4342021-04-14T17:34:43  <jnewbery> michaelfolkson: you've claimed in ##taproot-activation that your goal is for "21377 to be well reviewed and merged". Your actions over the last week have been completely contrary to that stated goal.
4352021-04-14T17:34:44  <jeremyrubin> Maybe remove BIP8 LOT=true?
4362021-04-14T17:34:54  <michaelfolkson> sipa: Please read https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-April/018783.html
4372021-04-14T17:34:56  <jeremyrubin> What is BIP8 LOT=? satisfying
4382021-04-14T17:35:04  <jamesob> michaelfolkson: can you dial back the hyperbole please?
4392021-04-14T17:35:06  <achow101> michaelfolkson: you are willing to risk a split network over a MTP vs height for a single paramter. I'm staggered
4402021-04-14T17:35:36  <sipa> ^
4412021-04-14T17:35:49  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: i've personally found the thinking patterns in https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/GSQsAReasGjETP3e9/biases-of-intuitive-and-logical-thinkers helpful in development. Perhaps worth reflecting on
4422021-04-14T17:36:29  <michaelfolkson> Luke has been consistent throughout and he has expertise with activations. If you want to ignore that, go for it
4432021-04-14T17:37:11  <jeremyrubin> he's consistently failed to answer questions like "what is incompatible with ST" or "what definition of consensus are you using that passes BIP8 and not ST"
4442021-04-14T17:37:24  <sipa> sorry, this discussion is personally stressing me out too much; my intent isn't to weigh in on activation methods, just to assess to level of support the current proposal has
4452021-04-14T17:37:25  <michaelfolkson> All these NACKs and coin flips and test networks, I've just been shocked
4462021-04-14T17:37:29  <jeremyrubin> and you're literally arguing with sipa about expertise with activation
4472021-04-14T17:37:31  <sipa> i'm going to withdraw again
4482021-04-14T17:37:34  *** sipa <sipa!~pw@gateway/tor-sasl/sipa1024> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
4492021-04-14T17:37:52  <jnewbery> michaelfolkson: yes you're shocked. We all understand that you're shocked.
4502021-04-14T17:38:10  <jnewbery> I'll echo the many people in #taproot-activation who have suggested you step back for a bit.
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4522021-04-14T17:38:25  <jnewbery> You're no longer helping yourself or anyone else
4532021-04-14T17:38:39  <michaelfolkson> jnewbery: Everytime I do, everyone just piles on Luke or does dumb coin flips
4542021-04-14T17:38:41  <luke-jr> "get out of the way so we can strong-arm this in" is what I am hearing
4552021-04-14T17:38:55  <michaelfolkson> I stayed away for a week and look at all the nonsense that happened
4562021-04-14T17:39:19  <jnewbery> all the nonsense = actual progress on a compromise proposal and implementation
4572021-04-14T17:39:24  <mol> michaelfolkson, thank you for staying away for a week and that allowed us to get things done
4582021-04-14T17:39:34  <michaelfolkson> Just listen to Luke's views occasionally, that's all I ask. You can ignore me
4592021-04-14T17:39:45  <luke-jr> there's nothing compromise about it anymore; it's purely one-sided, against community majority
4602021-04-14T17:39:46  <michaelfolkson> mol: Right some great coin flips were done
4612021-04-14T17:39:47  <mol> you never know michaelfolkson you're a liability and a farce for luke-jr
4622021-04-14T17:40:08  <michaelfolkson> mol: Lol if he thinks that he can tell me privately
4632021-04-14T17:40:25  <jeremyrubin> I would love to listen to luke-jr michaelfolkson
4642021-04-14T17:40:35  <achow101> michaelfolkson: you are not asking us to listen to luke-jr. You are asking us to bow down to luke-jr and accept everything that he wants
4652021-04-14T17:40:37  <mol> he might not think so but luke-jr needs better help
4662021-04-14T17:40:41  <jeremyrubin> Luke, what test is BIP8 passing w.r.t. consensus that ST is not?
4672021-04-14T17:40:51  * jeremyrubin ears open
4682021-04-14T17:41:03  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: ST is not MTP
4692021-04-14T17:41:10  <michaelfolkson> Ok I'm out too. Just please consider what you are doing. You are willing to risk a split network over AJ's test networks. Just so you are clear on that
4702021-04-14T17:41:12  <jeremyrubin> Ok please don't pedant over terms.
4712021-04-14T17:41:17  <luke-jr> ST/BIP8 had (has?) widespread support, not ST/BIP9
4722021-04-14T17:41:23  <jeremyrubin> What test is BIP8 passing that 21377 is not
4732021-04-14T17:41:37  <jamesob> michaelfolkson: it's hard not to listen to Luke's views occasionally :). Everyone here I think values his participation, input, and unique approach in a general sense, but this whole activation debate is wallowing in the mire. We all want taproot here.
4742021-04-14T17:41:37  <luke-jr> the community is almost unanimous in favour of BIP8
4752021-04-14T17:41:39  <jeremyrubin> Where are you observing this consensus
4762021-04-14T17:41:44  <jeremyrubin> SHOW DON'T TELL
4772021-04-14T17:41:54  <jeremyrubin> I have not seen it *anywhere*
4782021-04-14T17:41:56  <luke-jr> most have never even heard of 21377, and it is opposed to the community's consensus aroudn BIP8
4792021-04-14T17:42:01  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: then you're not paying attention
4802021-04-14T17:42:02  <jeremyrubin> WHERE
4812021-04-14T17:42:09  *** Guyver2 <Guyver2!Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4822021-04-14T17:42:10  <jeremyrubin> luke-jr: community's consensus aroudn BIP8 WHERE
4832021-04-14T17:42:20  <jeremyrubin> It should be fucking simple if it exists
4842021-04-14T17:42:22  *** Guyver2 <Guyver2!Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4852021-04-14T17:42:23  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: literally everywhere people talk about Bitcoin/Taproot/activation
4862021-04-14T17:42:29  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: it is, but you refuse to look
4872021-04-14T17:42:32  <jeremyrubin> Then give me *one* example
4882021-04-14T17:42:32  <achow101> THEN PROVIDE SOME GODDAMN LINKS
4892021-04-14T17:42:37  *** smctwo <smctwo!~smctwo@bba597217.alshamil.net.ae> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
4902021-04-14T17:42:54  *** smctwo <smctwo!~smctwo@bba597217.alshamil.net.ae> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4912021-04-14T17:43:17  <michaelfolkson> I can't leave can I....
4922021-04-14T17:43:29  <jeremyrubin> you can!
4932021-04-14T17:43:31  <luke-jr> go re-read the meeting logs; go look at Twitter or reddit; call up some people you know
4942021-04-14T17:43:33  <achow101> michaelfolkson: you can leave at any time
4952021-04-14T17:44:09  <michaelfolkson> achow101: As you know there were very well attended community meetings when we reviewed and finalized BIP 8 (using block heights)
4962021-04-14T17:44:18  <michaelfolkson> achow101: Not ten people doing a coin flip
4972021-04-14T17:44:37  <jeremyrubin> That didn't decide what happened, and you know that.
4982021-04-14T17:44:39  <achow101> And there were very well attended community meetings where we reviewed and finalized ST using MTP
4992021-04-14T17:44:40  <luke-jr> frankly asking for evidence at this point is just dishonest
5002021-04-14T17:44:46  <jeremyrubin> wtf
5012021-04-14T17:44:48  <luke-jr> as if it isn't all over the place
5022021-04-14T17:44:50  <michaelfolkson> achow101: We then had to decide on the LOT parameter. There wasn't clear consensus on the LOT parameter
5032021-04-14T17:45:11  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: which meeting was this? The one scheduled 24 hours in advance?
5042021-04-14T17:45:26  <michaelfolkson> achow101: But that does not mean the community went f*** BIP 8, let's use no BIP and a mix of block height and MTP
5052021-04-14T17:45:33  <michaelfolkson> *let's not use BIP 8
5062021-04-14T17:45:50  <achow101> michaelfolkson: WHY IS IT THAT YOU ASSUME THAT GOING WITH MTP ST MEANS FUCK BIP 8??????
5072021-04-14T17:45:53  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: There were two with 10 days notice I think
5082021-04-14T17:45:58  <luke-jr> the fact that ST/MTP folks can't engage honestly is what makes this a waste of time
5092021-04-14T17:46:03  <achow101> THIS ISN'T A BINARY BLACK AND WHITE DECISION
5102021-04-14T17:46:34  <michaelfolkson> achow101: We don't even know what BIP this MTP, block height is. That is what a shambles this is
5112021-04-14T17:46:46  <achow101> michaelfolkson: it's BIP 341
5122021-04-14T17:46:47  <michaelfolkson> Again all for AJ's test networks
5132021-04-14T17:47:00  <achow101> A PR has been opened to specify all of it in BIP 341
5142021-04-14T17:47:34  <michaelfolkson> We haven't worked out if it is going to be BIP 9 or a new BIP
5152021-04-14T17:47:53  <michaelfolkson> When Speedy Trial is sitting there neatly in BIP 8 and it has been reviewed
5162021-04-14T17:47:54  <achow101> It doesn't matter. It's specified in the place it matter: BIP 341
5172021-04-14T17:48:04  <achow101> the place it is going to be used
5182021-04-14T17:48:19  <michaelfolkson> It could be used again. It needs a BIP that isn't Taproot specific
5192021-04-14T17:48:20  <luke-jr> michaelfolkson: seems achow101's argument is that it's being special-cased in BIP 341 and therefore not expected to be used again
5202021-04-14T17:48:40  <michaelfolkson> achow101: It could easily be used again. Especially if it is a success
5212021-04-14T17:48:52  <luke-jr> it shouldn't be used once, much less again
5222021-04-14T17:48:52  <achow101> michaelfolkson: This is not the first time an activation mechanism was specified in the first BIP it were used, and then referred to again in subsequente soft forks
5232021-04-14T17:48:55  <achow101> see BIP 34
5242021-04-14T17:49:10  <achow101> and the later ISM forks that referred to the BIP 34 activation mechanism
5252021-04-14T17:49:18  <michaelfolkson> From a BIP perspective it is a mess currently imo
5262021-04-14T17:49:26  <michaelfolkson> Now if that was the only problem I would say ignore it
5272021-04-14T17:49:30  <michaelfolkson> But it is not
5282021-04-14T17:49:31  <luke-jr> anyway, how things get documented in BIPs is trivial in comparison to the real issues
5292021-04-14T17:49:50  <michaelfolkson> We have an alternative client using block height consistently
5302021-04-14T17:50:15  <michaelfolkson> We also have most reviewers preferring consistent use of block height and only one contributor NACKing it
5312021-04-14T17:50:26  <michaelfolkson> (for his test networks)
5322021-04-14T17:50:35  <michaelfolkson> It is just ludicrous
5332021-04-14T17:51:01  <jamesob> michaelfolkson: there are an infinite number of possible alternative clients; it doesn't make sense to defer to one that just popped up yesterday
5342021-04-14T17:51:19  <achow101> michaelfolkson: have you read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282? I highly suggest you read section 6 "One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus" and section 7 "Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus"
5352021-04-14T17:51:45  <michaelfolkson> jamesob: That is fair, but luke-jr is involved. It is not like it is some joker coming out the woodwork trying to cause disruption
5362021-04-14T17:52:27  <mol> we gathered in the meeting for the 'alternative client' to make luke feel good but only 3 people might run it, the rest of the community will run Core :D
5372021-04-14T17:52:30  <michaelfolkson> He has also been consistent throughout but people just don't listen to him (even though this is his area of expertise)
5382021-04-14T17:52:31  <luke-jr> jamesob: it didn't "just pop up yesterday"; it's been an ongoing WIP originally intended for Core, but finally accepting a separate release due to these problems within Core
5392021-04-14T17:52:44  <jeremyrubin> reading through http://gnusha.org/taproot-activation/2021-02-02.log, based on which michaelfolkson bases claim that BIP9 is "dead" and therefore MTP can't be used, TBH I just don't see that being the emergent agreement
5402021-04-14T17:53:05  <jeremyrubin> I see people caring about the *properties* of BIP8 vs BIP9, not excluding MTP being used in the future
5412021-04-14T17:53:08  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: They weren't my words, they were Rusty's words (an author of the BIP)
5422021-04-14T17:53:27  <michaelfolkson> A neutral observer at the meeting
5432021-04-14T17:53:38  <jeremyrubin> which meeting? i don't see him saying that in these logs
5442021-04-14T17:53:59  <michaelfolkson> In his summary after the meeting, his exact words
5452021-04-14T17:54:21  <michaelfolkson> I just think you like wasting people's time jeremyrubin
5462021-04-14T17:54:34  <michaelfolkson> But for this I'll find you the link
5472021-04-14T17:54:35  <jamesob> micahelfolkson: can we shy away from ad hominem?
5482021-04-14T17:54:37  <jeremyrubin> I'm doing what luke and you asked, which is reviewing the meetings for consensus
5492021-04-14T17:54:42  <jeremyrubin> https://bitcoinhackers.org/@rusty/105664386728806153
5502021-04-14T17:55:19  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: Exactly, thank you
5512021-04-14T17:56:09  <jeremyrubin> I see, but it's *your job* as a summarizer to filter. And "dead" (not RIP) is a quote due to you
5522021-04-14T17:56:25  <michaelfolkson> The maintainers will essentially need to decide. I recommend they ask aj to use block heights consistently personally. But if he refuses it is up to them what they merge
5532021-04-14T17:56:38  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: You are quibbling over RIP versus dead? Seriously?
5542021-04-14T17:56:46  <michaelfolkson> You are just trolling and wasting my time
5552021-04-14T17:56:48  <jeremyrubin> I'm just saying you seem to beleive rusty
5562021-04-14T17:57:01  <jeremyrubin> and you've extrapolated BIP9 RIP ==> MTP cannot be used
5572021-04-14T17:57:11  <michaelfolkson> I haven't
5582021-04-14T17:57:16  <michaelfolkson> This is torture
5592021-04-14T17:57:28  <michaelfolkson> I've said not to use BIP 9
5602021-04-14T17:57:35  <jeremyrubin> And are you in the chair or holding the bucket of water?
5612021-04-14T17:57:49  <michaelfolkson> And the only BIP that has been reviewed and includes Speedy Trial is BIP 8
5622021-04-14T17:58:09  <jeremyrubin> #21377 has been reviewed, as has the corresponding 341 BIP
5632021-04-14T17:58:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21377 | Speedy trial support for versionbits by ajtowns · Pull Request #21377 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5642021-04-14T17:58:18  <achow101> michaelfolkson: we aren't using BIP 9. MTP != BIP 9
5652021-04-14T17:58:25  <jeremyrubin> in fact at this point it probably has more review than any BIP8 anything has ever had
5662021-04-14T17:58:28  <achow101> jeremyrubin: he's in the chair dunking his own head into the bucket of water
5672021-04-14T17:59:00  <michaelfolkson> We. will. need. a. BIP. for. Speedy. Trial (that is not Taproot specific)
5682021-04-14T17:59:12  <jeremyrubin> can happen after the fact
5692021-04-14T17:59:22  <michaelfolkson> Sjors has opened a PR to change BIP 9
5702021-04-14T17:59:22  <achow101> A generalized BIP can happen afterwards
5712021-04-14T17:59:25  <jeremyrubin> BIPs are often descriptive
5722021-04-14T17:59:29  <jeremyrubin> not prescriptive
5732021-04-14T17:59:50  <jeremyrubin> (in fact, it's usually preferable to be descriptive otherwise we have useless BIPs clogging the numberspace)
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5752021-04-14T18:00:00  <michaelfolkson> Whatever. As I've said the maintainers will need to make the decision. I would recommend they ask aj to change to block heights consistently.
5762021-04-14T18:00:15  <michaelfolkson> If he refuses we have the risk of a split network if it gets merged
5772021-04-14T18:00:21  <jeremyrubin> THAT IS NOT MAINTAINERS JOBS IT IS A DANGEROUS MYTH YOU ARE PERPETUATING
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5792021-04-14T18:00:32  <michaelfolkson> A small risk, but a risk nonetheless
5802021-04-14T18:00:52  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: It is when people are going mad doing coin flips and whatever else
5812021-04-14T18:01:11  <jeremyrubin> Project maintainers have commit access and are responsible for merging patches from contributors. They perform a janitorial role merging patches that the team agrees should be merged. They also act as a final check to ensure that patches are safe and in line with the project goals. The maintainers’ role is by agreement of project contributors.
5822021-04-14T18:01:53  <michaelfolkson> When people are going mad doing coin flips the only people stopping dumb stuff from being merged is the maintainers
5832021-04-14T18:01:59  <jeremyrubin> If there is a safety concern, maintainers can raise it. But using their maintainer hat they aren't in the role of prescribing something else.
5842021-04-14T18:02:12  <achow101> michaelfolkson: you keep harping on about this coin flip thing as if it actually mattered
5852021-04-14T18:02:29  <achow101> do you actually think the coin flip was what decided which PR to close?
5862021-04-14T18:02:29  <michaelfolkson> I don't have anymore to add
5872021-04-14T18:02:40  <michaelfolkson> If you start piling on Luke again I'll come back
5882021-04-14T18:02:48  <mol> lmao
5892021-04-14T18:02:49  <achow101> you've had nothing more to add for a long time
5902021-04-14T18:02:57  <jeremyrubin> luke-jr is a big boy, he can handle himself
5912021-04-14T18:02:59  <michaelfolkson> Otherwise I'm out
5922021-04-14T18:02:59  <achow101> we've been having the same exact discussion for the past several weeks
5932021-04-14T18:03:05  <mol> bye
5942021-04-14T18:05:28  <roconnor> so, #21377 rtm then?
5952021-04-14T18:05:32  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21377 | Speedy trial support for versionbits by ajtowns · Pull Request #21377 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5962021-04-14T18:06:03  <jeremyrubin> roconnor: I'd like to play with the tests a bit more to go from cr-ack to tack, but that can happen after merge
5972021-04-14T18:06:10  <jeremyrubin> so rtm from me
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5992021-04-14T18:07:26  <jonatack> roconnor: jamesob and i are still reviewing, idk about others, not to block anything tho
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6012021-04-14T18:07:49  <jamesob> yeah I'm happy to continue review post-merge
6022021-04-14T18:08:56  <luke-jr> roconnor: no
6032021-04-14T18:09:19  <luke-jr> it's still unacceptable to ignore the community
6042021-04-14T18:10:57  <jnewbery> it's ready to merge
6052021-04-14T18:11:14  <luke-jr> it's abuse of position to merge
6062021-04-14T18:12:40  <jeremyrubin> noted
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6082021-04-14T18:18:26  <jeremyrubin> I've gone and re-looked at the notes
6092021-04-14T18:19:06  <BlueMatt> roconnor: yep! 21377 looks ready to merge!
6102021-04-14T18:19:10  <jeremyrubin> I can see why luke-jr and michaelfolkson think there might be consensus on BIP8, but I think they are viewing the process as "gradient descent on a continuos surface" as opposed to a discontinuous process.
6112021-04-14T18:19:24  <jeremyrubin> There was never an inkling of consensus on a LOT=true parameter
6122021-04-14T18:19:29  <jeremyrubin> it was always hotly contested
6132021-04-14T18:19:35  <jeremyrubin> and BIP8 requires *a choice* of that
6142021-04-14T18:20:41  <jeremyrubin> so it seems inaccurate to me to label BIP8 as having consensus when a key parameter did not
6152021-04-14T18:21:07  <jeremyrubin> 21377, being a whole new thing, needs to be independently evaluated
6162021-04-14T18:21:39  *** cec <cec!aedb0499@153.sub-174-219-4.myvzw.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed)
6172021-04-14T18:21:39  <jeremyrubin> "but we already agreed to XXX for BIP8" doesn't hold when a keystone component of BIP8 (LOT) is what made ST a thing in the first place.
6182021-04-14T18:22:46  <jeremyrubin> Further, the type of consensus around BIP8 in these meeting logs (maybe it's somewhere else, figure the meetings are more relevant than twitter/reddit) is not super high quality IMO because it's mainly ACK'ing the properties of BIP8 as opposed to the specific implementation
6192021-04-14T18:22:58  <jeremyrubin> And it's less explicit ACKs as opposed to "sounds OK"
6202021-04-14T18:23:10  <jeremyrubin> (there was no, afaict, concrete PRs in the air?)
6212021-04-14T18:23:12  <harding> Re rtm status: I'm reviewing 21377 again today, but I've tested it quite a bit so far and not found any problems.  I'll also continue reviewing post-merge if it gets merged today.
6222021-04-14T18:24:07  <jeremyrubin> In contrast, the ACKs on harding's proposal (which allows for middle space of BIP8 or BIP9) https://gist.github.com/michaelfolkson/92899f27f1ab30aa2ebee82314f8fe7f is much more exhaustive and explicit
6232021-04-14T18:24:36  <jeremyrubin> 21377 being a concrete instantion of that suggests to me it is acceptable by the community
6242021-04-14T18:25:36  <jeremyrubin> Further in support of BIP8's consensus being questionable earlier on, I think harding has had a very good read on the community in general. I don't beleive he would have included BIP9 in his proposal as an option if he thought the community was decisive
6252021-04-14T18:25:44  <jeremyrubin> (harding don't let me assume your intent)
6262021-04-14T18:26:18  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: BIP8 doesn't require LOT for ST any more than BIP9 does
6272021-04-14T18:26:48  <jeremyrubin> Overall I feel relativelty confident based on this review dismissing the notion that BIP8 has consensus and ST/MTP does not
6282021-04-14T18:27:02  <jeremyrubin> but others can do their own review of this summary independently
6292021-04-14T18:28:42  <jeremyrubin> Sorry if this is line noise for this channel -- but this is the best job I could do at breaking down the claim that BIP8 has consensus (LOT=?) and ST/MTP does not
6302021-04-14T18:29:29  <midnight> If someone +o me, I'll clean this channel up and then you can blame me.
6312021-04-14T18:29:31  <BlueMatt> fwiw, I do, like I think several others, have a weak but repeatedly-stated preference for MTP over height.
6322021-04-14T18:31:05  <jeremyrubin> midnight: I don't think there's a need, but if you're referring to me I'll put myself in timeout voluntarily. lunch time
6332021-04-14T18:39:12  <emzy> fwiw I was prefering bip8 and ok with bip9 in the beginning. And I think many thought the same at that time.
6342021-04-14T18:39:42  <emzy> (hight over MTP)
6352021-04-14T18:39:56  <emzy> *hight
6362021-04-14T18:43:05  <BlueMatt> emzy: right, people gonna disagree, cause people. trying to blow up progress because of a triviality, tho....
6372021-04-14T18:43:44  <provoostenator> The "BIP 8"  (LOT=false) speedy trial PR #21392 is of similiar quality to the BIP 9 one IMO.
6382021-04-14T18:43:48  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21392 | Implement BIP 8 based Speedy Trial activation by achow101 · Pull Request #21392 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
6392021-04-14T18:43:53  <emzy> BlueMatt: I agree.
6402021-04-14T18:44:11  <provoostenator> For BIP 8 itself  the main issue was LOT=true but I don't think there was much objection to implemting the LOT=false version.
6412021-04-14T18:44:14  <provoostenator> It's a coin toss :-)
6422021-04-14T18:44:24  <provoostenator> (but not literally)
6432021-04-14T18:44:48  <BlueMatt> provoostenator: right, one of those trivialities that we generally just say "code author decides, cause it doesnt matter" :p
6442021-04-14T18:44:51  <jeremyrubin> of course, a literal coin toss wouldn't be provably fair over the phone ;)
6452021-04-14T18:44:58  <BlueMatt> or, if you really care, a coin toss
6462021-04-14T18:45:23  <Emcy> if its rtm, please merge it
6472021-04-14T18:45:27  <Emcy> no more peanut gallery
6482021-04-14T18:45:32  <provoostenator> Right, I was just responding to earlier discussion about BIP 8 being totally not in a review ready state. That's only true for LOT=true.
6492021-04-14T18:45:43  <jeremyrubin> provoostenator: I don't disagree on quality, 21377 has more acks/review though so closer to RTM
6502021-04-14T18:45:46  <provoostenator> Because that PR needs more work and more thinking
6512021-04-14T18:46:12  <provoostenator> jeremyrubin: it certainly does now
6522021-04-14T18:47:49  <BlueMatt> sounds like most of us are in agreement, its ready to merge 🎉
6532021-04-14T18:48:33  <jeremyrubin> Ah yes, provoostenator was commenting on my comment at [11:22:46 AM PDT]
6542021-04-14T18:48:54  <jeremyrubin> I'm looking back at the february meetings which were I think before any PR
6552021-04-14T18:50:35  <provoostenator> I like that it has a +1 from Voskuil too, who needs to deal with implemting this in libbitcoin.
6562021-04-14T18:50:46  <provoostenator> Aperently also support from Btcd.
6572021-04-14T18:51:45  <provoostenator> And so far no comment along the lines of "my goodness this is a nightmare to implement in [my favorite BTC client]"
6582021-04-14T18:52:14  <BlueMatt> plus voskuil *normally* disagrees very strongly on bitcoin fork activation stuff, so him agreeing is a pretty good "did we even slightly screw this up" check
6592021-04-14T18:52:49  <jeremyrubin> BlueMatt: don't let him catch you saying that
6602021-04-14T18:52:52  <BlueMatt> heh
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6722021-04-14T19:46:11  <jonasschnelli> #proposedmeetingtopic short info/update on the "Bitcoin Core Code Signing Association" status.
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6742021-04-14T20:03:38  <da2ce7_> wumpus: "<bitcoin-git> [gui] laanwj merged pull request #260: Handle exceptions instead of crash (master...210326-ex) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/260" the merge script seems to have a bug...
6752021-04-14T20:03:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/260 | Add esperanto translation. by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #260 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
6762021-04-14T20:04:15  <wumpus> da2ce7_: how that?
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6782021-04-14T20:04:41  <da2ce7_> well well; pull request is 260 is quite old...
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6812021-04-14T20:06:26  <wumpus> it links to the GUI repo: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/260
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6832021-04-14T20:06:52  <da2ce7_> ahhh. O.o; my bad then.
6842021-04-14T20:06:59  <wumpus> which has its own PR namespace, and started more recently, so the numbers are lower :)
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6862021-04-14T20:08:01  <da2ce7_> I just clicked it via the github interface.
6872021-04-14T20:10:03  <wumpus> i see the issue now
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6902021-04-14T20:11:25  <wumpus> it is supposed to do Merge bitcoin-core/gui#266
6912021-04-14T20:11:28  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/266 | Backport to wx2.8 and dynamically link most libs. by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #266 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
6922021-04-14T20:11:57  <amiti> is anyone here admin for the bitcoin-dev mailing list? I've been trying to send an email and struggling :(
6932021-04-14T20:13:13  <wumpus> da2ce7_: I didn't *use* the script correctly, apparently, thanks for noticing
6942021-04-14T20:13:24  <michaelfolkson> amiti: I think RubenSomsen is
6952021-04-14T20:13:56  <michaelfolkson> amiti: What's the problem? There is sometimes a delay before it gets published if that's the concern?
6962021-04-14T20:14:29  <amiti> my emails are bouncing saying I'm not subscribed to the list, but I am
6972021-04-14T20:15:03  <michaelfolkson> Oh that is weird.. yeah I'm sure Ruben will be able to help (or at least point you to someone else who can help)
6982021-04-14T20:15:24  <amiti> ok, thanks
6992021-04-14T20:16:34  <da2ce7_> :)
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7032021-04-14T20:24:21  <wumpus> amiti: or kanzure maybe
7042021-04-14T20:25:11  <amiti> wumpus: will check it out, thanks :)
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7062021-04-14T20:42:38  <luke-jr> it's not triviality except to BIP9 advocates
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7082021-04-14T20:44:56  <luke-jr> or to be more correct, people who don't consider it a triviality, are unanimously in favour of BIP8
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7182021-04-14T21:17:47  <RubenSomsen> Problem solved, was able subscribe amiti to the mailing list manually to resolve it
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7212021-04-14T21:30:41  <dergoegge> whats the easiest way to debug a test on windows without having a windows machine? (i am trying to figure out why the test i wrote in #21603 is failing on windows only)
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7232021-04-14T21:30:43  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21603 | log: Mitigate disk filling attacks by rate limiting LogPrintf by dergoegge · Pull Request #21603 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
7242021-04-14T21:31:21  <dergoegge> i have tried running "FILE_ENV="./ci/test/00_setup_env_win64.sh" ./ci/test_run_all.sh" but that keeps failing while building :/
7252021-04-14T21:31:44  <dergoegge> (i am on macOS if that makes a difference)
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7392021-04-14T21:56:59  <jarolrod> windows virtual machine?
7402021-04-14T22:13:06  <phantomcircuit> dergoegge, iirc the windows test harness is pretty noisy
7412021-04-14T22:16:51  <phantomcircuit> oh
7422021-04-14T22:17:37  <phantomcircuit> dergoegge, you're assuming that LogPrintf("%s\n", std::string(1023, 'a')); results in 1024 bytes written, but on windows it might be 1025 cause of line endings
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7482021-04-14T22:32:18  <dergoegge> jarolrod: yea i guess but  i was hoping i could avoid setting up a vm from scratch, but that is probably the best way
7492021-04-14T22:34:25  <dergoegge> phantomcircuit: oh right, thats probably it, thank you
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7532021-04-14T22:52:58  <kanzure> amiti: also you may have sent to bitcoin-discuss instead of bitcoin-dev
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7552021-04-14T22:55:01  <amiti> kanzure: it was very odd, my email address wouldn't subscribe to bitcoin-dev, so per ReubenSomsen's suggestion we debugged by using bitcoin-discuss
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