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182021-09-01T01:56:52 <gnaf> ;;auth gnaf
192021-09-01T01:56:52 <gribble> Request successful for user gnaf, hostmask gnaf!~gnaf@86-91-224-60.opennet.kpn.net. Your challenge string is: zirconium.libera.chat:#bitcoin-otc:8f2f03563f52e38a1022450907e9108c382606db9dfba6f1284e3bac
202021-09-01T01:57:20 *** earnestly <earnestly!~earnest@user/earnestly> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
212021-09-01T02:05:09 <gnaf> ;;verify https://pastebin.com/nktNNqTa
222021-09-01T02:05:09 <gribble> Error: In order to authenticate, you must be present in one of the following channels: #bitcoin-otc;#bitcoin-bans;#gribble
232021-09-01T02:06:55 <gnaf> ;;verify #bitcoin-otc:8f2f03563f52e38a1022450907e9108c382606db9dfba6f1284e3bac
242021-09-01T02:06:55 <gribble> Error: '#bitcoin-otc:8f2f03563f52e38a1022450907e9108c382606db9dfba6f1284e3bac' is not a valid http url.
252021-09-01T02:07:26 <gnaf> ;;verify irconium.libera.chat:#bitcoin-otc:8f2f03563f52e38a1022450907e9108c382606db9dfba6f1284e3bac
262021-09-01T02:07:26 <gribble> Error: Only these pastebins are supported: ['http://pastebin.com', 'https://pastebin.com', 'http://paste.debian.net', 'https://paste.debian.net', 'http://sprunge.us']
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302021-09-01T02:11:13 <sipa> gnaf: wrong channel, i assume
312021-09-01T02:12:53 <gnaf> sipa: no just trying to auth with gribble
322021-09-01T02:14:15 <sipa> please don't spam this channel with it
332021-09-01T02:15:29 <gnaf> sipa: ;;auth works but ;;verify http://pastebin.com gives me a problem
342021-09-01T02:15:30 *** BUSY <BUSY!~BUSY@user/busy> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
352021-09-01T02:16:59 <sipa> gnaf: i have no clue what it is supposed to do, or what you're trying to achieve; i'm only asking not to do it here
362021-09-01T02:19:30 <gnaf> i am not here to spam the channel, i was trying to auth my username , but i can do without the auth
372021-09-01T02:20:44 <sipa> gnaf: i'm sure you can do it in PM with the bot
382021-09-01T02:22:10 <gnaf> sipa: tnx i fotgot about that one, i havnt used gribble sinds 2014
392021-09-01T02:39:08 *** Pasha is now known as Cory
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422021-09-01T02:52:54 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #22740: [addrman] Move serialization code to cpp (master...2021-08-move-addrman-serialize) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22740
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572021-09-01T04:26:16 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] lano1106 closed pull request #22830: net: remove reinit of the onion proxy (master...tor_issues) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22830
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602021-09-01T04:59:55 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider pushed 8 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a820e79512b6...70676e40d8c6
612021-09-01T04:59:55 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 54de7b4 Andrew Chow: Allow the long term feerate to be configured, default of 10 sat/vb
622021-09-01T04:59:55 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d5069fc Andrew Chow: tests: Use SelectCoinsBnB directly instead of AttemptSelection
632021-09-01T04:59:55 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6a023a6 Andrew Chow: tests: Add KnapsackGroupOutputs helper function
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662021-09-01T05:00:12 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider merged pull request #22009: wallet: Decide which coin selection solution to use based on waste metric (master...cs-waste-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22009
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732021-09-01T05:21:08 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] siv2r opened pull request #22851: [WIP] Add Python ChaCha20 implementation and bindings for CPP ChaCha20 implementation (master...chacha20-test-coverage) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22851
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1002021-09-01T07:24:26 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/70676e40d8c6...b3a2b8c29fda
1012021-09-01T07:24:26 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fab53ff MarcoFalke: Remove unused SERIALIZE_METHODS for CBanEntry
1022021-09-01T07:24:26 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa3bd9d MarcoFalke: Remove CBanEntry::SetNull
1032021-09-01T07:24:26 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b3a2b8c MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22849: Remove unused SERIALIZE_METHODS for CBanEntry...
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1062021-09-01T07:24:43 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22849: Remove unused SERIALIZE_METHODS for CBanEntry (master...2109-remBanEntrySer) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22849
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1112021-09-01T07:33:21 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22853: fuzz: Remove addrdb fuzz target (master...2109-fuzzRemT) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22853
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1262021-09-01T08:47:46 <laanwj> just reminded again that we don't currently have metadata backup for the GUI repository like we have for bitcoin/bitcoin in zw/bitcoin-gh-meta
1272021-09-01T08:52:06 <laanwj> this would be useful for ghwatch and the list-pulls script, as well as for archival in general
1282021-09-01T08:54:43 <jonatack> hm, nor for any of the repos in https://github.com/bitcoin-core, IIUC (?)
1292021-09-01T08:57:10 <laanwj> right
1302021-09-01T08:57:37 <laanwj> it would make sense to do it for all repos under bitcoin and bitcoin-core
1312021-09-01T08:58:34 <laanwj> but it would be a lot of hassle to create a mirror-repo for every one
1322021-09-01T09:00:23 <laanwj> mmy grouping it into one archive repo would be best-it's not like the most of the other repositories see a lot of traffic on top of what bitcoin/bitcoin gets
1332021-09-01T09:02:48 <laanwj> secp256k1's discussion would be also pretty important to archive
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1352021-09-01T09:07:42 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow opened pull request #22855: RBF move 3/3: improve RBF documentation (master...2021-09-rbf-docs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22855
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1772021-09-01T14:35:48 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] darosior closed pull request #22665: policy/rbf: don't return "incorrect" replaceability status (master...rbf_optin_nomempool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22665
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1822021-09-01T14:44:26 <laanwj> 22.0 has an impressive number of merged PRs
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1842021-09-01T14:48:47 <vasild> :-)
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2052021-09-01T16:08:46 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jesseposner closed pull request #21301: [WIP] Chacha20 py testing (master...chacha20-py-testing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21301
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2082021-09-01T16:17:50 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 10 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b3a2b8c29fda...7e75400bb568
2092021-09-01T16:17:50 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7f07359 Jon Atack: Test src/node/transaction::GetTransaction() without -txindex
2102021-09-01T16:17:50 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8c19d13 Jon Atack: refactor: dedup/reorg createrawtransaction sequence number tests
2112021-09-01T16:17:50 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0097740 Jon Atack: refactor: txid to constant in rpc_rawtransaction to isolate tests
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2142021-09-01T16:18:08 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22437: test, refactor: add GetTransaction() coverage, improve rpc_rawtransaction (master...improve-gettransaction-test-coverage) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22437
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2332021-09-01T17:53:48 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] shoryak opened pull request #22856: Modifications in ComplexMempool benchmark (master...complexmempool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22856
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2472021-09-01T19:06:46 <laanwj> added the list of changes and author credits to the 22.0 release notes draft in the wiki, please double-check : https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/22.0-Release-Notes-draft#220-change-log
2482021-09-01T19:06:49 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/220 | Wallet and key import and export by sipa · Pull Request #220 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2502021-09-01T19:27:11 <sipa> haha
2512021-09-01T19:27:16 <sipa> silly gribble
2522021-09-01T19:30:27 <michaelfolkson> gribble wants us to go back to 0.22 versioning. Can't cope
2532021-09-01T19:31:20 <michaelfolkson> I do wonder if that will cause headaches for other people
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2552021-09-01T19:33:19 <shiza> It's not too late to roll back such mistake. :D
2562021-09-01T19:34:44 <michaelfolkson> gribble ACKs that :)
2572021-09-01T19:48:29 <jonatack> laanwj: heh nice, the script handles unicode in PR titles :D ... a few 22.0 pulls seem to be missing: manually edit the wiki? send info by IRC?
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2602021-09-01T20:26:30 <prayank> 1. Is there anything in Bitcoin Core that prevents situation in which my node has 8 outbound connections (2 ipv4, 2 ipv6, 2 onion, 2 i2p) but in reality they are addresses of 2 nodes.
2612021-09-01T20:26:40 <prayank> 2. If my node has only 2 outbound connections: onion and i2p. What are the things that can help me know they are both addresses of same node?
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2642021-09-01T20:41:44 <sipa> prayank: there is generally no way to identify nodes, so no, you can't know
2652021-09-01T20:48:35 <jonatack> prayank: (you know this, but just saying for anyone reading) in addition to the 8 outbound full and 2 outbound block relay peers, there are 8 additional outbound slots one can use for -addnode (manual) connections to peers selected for their diversity, connectedness, honesty or other desirable qualities
2662021-09-01T20:49:38 <prayank> sipa: blocks synced, UA, rebroadcast txs, version and maybe other p2p messages can help? Question 1 above is about avoiding getting connected to attackers/spy and assume we have different nodes in outbound. Question 2 affects privacy of people listening on multiple networks especially onion and garlic.
2672021-09-01T20:55:52 <sipa> prayank: if you find a way to tell that two connections are to the same node, it means you can infer the network topology
2682021-09-01T20:56:08 <sipa> opinions on this differ, but imho, that's undesirable
2692021-09-01T20:56:40 <sipa> well, not quite the full topology, but it's part of it
2702021-09-01T20:59:13 <prayank> What should be the best practices? Maybe have lots of outbound and inbound connections? Other things can be avoid using fancy things in UA, don't share addresses on social media and maybe that rebroadcast PR if merged can also help
2712021-09-01T21:01:40 <michaelfolkson> Any view on I2P versus Tor if you had to choose one jonatack (or anyone else)? I read that I2P is maybe more robust, reliable than Tor which surprised me given that I'd never heard of I2P until you started working on it
2722021-09-01T21:01:46 <sipa> more connections generally means worse privacy (just more things that can be observed)
2732021-09-01T21:02:18 <sipa> more connections help the network, and in particular partition resistance
2742021-09-01T21:02:56 <sipa> michaelfolkson: anonymity set with I2P is smaller, just by being a smaller network
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2762021-09-01T21:04:46 <michaelfolkson> More connections, harder to be eclipsed
2772021-09-01T21:05:05 <sipa> yes, that's what partition resistance means
2782021-09-01T21:05:31 <sipa> well, it's broader - eclipse attacks are attempts to isolate a single target node
2792021-09-01T21:05:53 <michaelfolkson> Oh I had them as separate things. Partition resistance as the network splitting in two and eclipse as the network potentially being fine but an adversary controlling all your peers
2802021-09-01T21:05:56 <sipa> partitions are broader, where you just have two groups of nodes that are not interconnected
2812021-09-01T21:06:23 <sipa> (or only interconnected by attackers)
2822021-09-01T21:06:31 <michaelfolkson> Global versus local partitions I guess
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2842021-09-01T21:11:15 <michaelfolkson> Certainly in the Erlay discussions/motivation more connections is seen as a good thing to avoid eclipse attacks and improve tx propagation. Depends if you are interested in that more or privacy more
2852021-09-01T21:12:43 <michaelfolkson> You can't really have best practices if there are trade-offs and everyone has different preferences with regards to those trade-offs
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2872021-09-01T21:15:38 <sipa> imho those are design decisions, about how things should work by default
2882021-09-01T21:15:57 <sipa> you can't assume that people follow best practices, at least not w.r.t your own privacy
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2902021-09-01T21:16:21 <sipa> and certainly can't assume people read documentatiom
2912021-09-01T21:17:22 <michaelfolkson> Indeed :)
2922021-09-01T21:18:02 <prayank> More I read about anything, more I feel there is no privacy online. We are just playing Tom and Jerry. michaelfolkson: i2p vs Tor basic differences: https://github.com/prayank23/Learning-Bitcoin-from-the-Command-Line/blob/i2p/15_0_Using_i2p.md (Tor is better in few things and as sipa mentioned it has more nodes)
2932021-09-01T21:18:33 <michaelfolkson> Best practices sounds to me like advice or guidance rather than defaults
2942021-09-01T21:19:38 <michaelfolkson> Choosing a single default for all users is impossible (although you have to land somewhere)
2952021-09-01T21:19:46 <prayank> Not reusing a bitcoin adress is a best practice
2962021-09-01T21:21:17 <michaelfolkson> Ok not really a downside to not doing that though apart from marginal additional software complexity
2972021-09-01T21:22:07 <michaelfolkson> prayank: Thanks, this is the link I was looking for https://geti2p.net/en/comparison/tor
2982021-09-01T21:22:39 <michaelfolkson> Cool you are contributing to Learning Bitcoin from Command Line
2992021-09-01T21:24:00 <prayank> michaelfolkson: that page was last updated in 2016, so I had researched few things from other places and wrote in the table
3002021-09-01T21:24:43 <sipa> prayank: i agree, but just telling people not to reuse addresses isn't going to do much; designing software such that not reusing is easier is
3012021-09-01T21:25:16 <prayank> +1
3022021-09-01T21:25:23 <sipa> that's not to say that documentation is pointless; obvioisly not, it goes a long way towards educating
3032021-09-01T21:25:28 <michaelfolkson> prayank: Nice. I'm assuming the I2P site might be a touch biased in favor of I2P too :)
3042021-09-01T21:25:40 <sipa> but just that isn't going to cut it
3052021-09-01T21:25:42 <jonatack> michaelfolkson: for now there are only a few dozen i2p peers, as sipa mentioned. maybe it depends on your goals, but running dual tor+i2p (or all networks ip/tor/i2p) might be interesting from a robustness standpoint; if one of the privacy networks has issues, like the tor consensus nodes causing network liveness issues last jan and feb, or if
3062021-09-01T21:25:43 <jonatack> your i2p router stops working and needs to be restarted, the other may function as a backup.
3072021-09-01T21:25:43 <earnestly> nudge theory is quite a horrible technique in practice
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3092021-09-01T21:28:50 <michaelfolkson> jonatack: Right for now that makes sense. Just wondering about long term "winner" and if I2P has long term strengths over Tor
3102021-09-01T21:29:25 <michaelfolkson> Don't know if it is winner take all in privacy protocols, perhaps it isn't
3112021-09-01T21:29:27 <sipa> in terms of paryition resistance, more networks is just better :)
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3152021-09-01T21:37:43 <jonatack> bitcoind p2p over i2p generally seems to have higher latency (slower), some router reliability issues afaics (at least, with older versions of i2pd or recent versions on some platforms), and some people say it has a history of bugginess. otoh, i do not know if the i2p network sees fewer attacks like what tor v3 saw at the start of this year. at
3162021-09-01T21:37:43 <jonatack> any rate it's a little early to run only i2p, but some people began their first experiments trying bitcoin over i2p by running onlynet=i2p (and reported two months for IBD)
3172021-09-01T21:39:36 <jonatack> that's only what i see/hear. it might not be accurate :)
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3192021-09-01T21:41:27 <michaelfolkson> jonatack: Interesting, have you chatted to I2P devs? Presumably having it in Core is a win for them
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3212021-09-01T21:46:37 <michaelfolkson> Trusted directory servers (Tor) versus Distributed network database (I2P)
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3252021-09-01T22:12:49 <b10c> reposting this as I'm not sure how much attention it got already: https://arxiv.org/abs/2108.00815
3262021-09-01T22:15:13 <sipa> b10c: i saw it
3272021-09-01T22:15:24 <b10c> prayank: authors claim they (and the entity launching the attack) can find out the addresses for a node listening on multiple interfaces. eg IPv4, IPv6, Tor and I2P
3282021-09-01T22:16:03 <b10c> sipa: based on my understanding, their claims are reasonable. do you agree?
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3302021-09-01T22:16:58 <prayank> b10c: Interesting. Reading pdf.
3312021-09-01T22:19:33 <sipa> b10c: yes, it's a reasonable theory that that's the goal of the attack
3322021-09-01T22:21:01 <sipa> and i also believe that they indeed can infer connections to the same node... which is why i'd consider it an attack
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3342021-09-01T22:21:27 <sipa> some of the improvements in 22.0 will make this harder (the rate limiting of addr relay etc), but it won't fix it entirely
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3392021-09-01T22:51:42 <b10c> sipa: any other, not yet implemented, ways of making similar attacks harder? slight randomness in the addr msg timestamp when relaying or breaking the addr msg fingerprint by replacing IPs with other previously learned IPs if the msg contains >X IPs?
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3412021-09-01T22:53:18 <sipa> b10c: the real solution, i fear, is having a separate addrman for each network
3422021-09-01T22:57:08 <b10c> sipa: hmm. thanks though!
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3442021-09-01T22:59:12 * b10c thinking about building more monitoring for these addr attacks (or P2P anomalies in general)
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3462021-09-01T23:01:53 <sipa> b10c: great
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3492021-09-01T23:11:11 <lightlike> b10c: did you see https://www.dsn.kastel.kit.edu/bitcoin/index.html by the authors of the paper? the "Churn" graph there (I think their nodes try to connect to every node they get an addr for) went into the roof when the addr spam started
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