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442021-09-24T01:25:04 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #23079: test: use MiniWallet for p2p_filter.py (master...202109-test-use_MiniWallet_for_p2p_filter) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23079
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472021-09-24T01:28:00 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] brunoerg opened pull request #23080: test: check abandoned tx in listsinceblock (master...2021-09-improv-test-listsinceblock) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23080
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512021-09-24T01:31:41 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] stevebanik opened pull request #23081: Updated for better readability (master...patch-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23081
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662021-09-24T02:04:41 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #23081: Updated for better readability (master...patch-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23081
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1262021-09-24T04:37:09 <bitcoin-git> [gui] jarolrod opened pull request #430: Improvements to the open up transaction in third-party link action (master...3party-tx-links-cleanup) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/430
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2352021-09-24T08:59:55 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #23083: rpc: Fail to return undocumented or misdocumented JSON (master...2108-docRpc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23083
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2472021-09-24T09:29:46 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #23083: rpc: Fail to return undocumented or misdocumented JSON (master...2108-docRpc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23083
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2502021-09-24T09:30:02 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke reopened pull request #23083: rpc: Fail to return undocumented or misdocumented JSON (master...2108-docRpc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23083
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2842021-09-24T10:43:22 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #23084: test: assert on result instead of log in asmap-addrman test (master...asmap-addrman-test-assert-on-result-instead-of-log) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23084
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2942021-09-24T11:10:11 <laanwj> can someone who uses signet please test #23021 and sign off on it; Sjors' old node is no longer active so it's fairly important to replace it
2952021-09-24T11:10:12 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23021 | net: switch to signet DNS seed by Sjors · Pull Request #23021 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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3072021-09-24T11:42:51 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors closed pull request #23000: net: update signet seeds (master...2021/09/signet-seed) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23000
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3172021-09-24T12:07:09 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b7e360081506...8e9801bfc4ac
3182021-09-24T12:07:09 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa086ef MarcoFalke: test: Remove unused ~TestChain100Setup
3192021-09-24T12:07:09 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faa4698 MarcoFalke: test: Remove version argument from build_next_block in p2p_segwit test
3202021-09-24T12:07:09 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fadb2ef MarcoFalke: test: Add extra_args argument to TestChain100Setup constructor
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3232021-09-24T12:07:26 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22818: test: Activate all regtest softforks at height 1, unless overridden (master...2108-regtestSoft) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22818
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3442021-09-24T12:52:25 <darosior> Lol #23074 uncovered another functional test flakiness.. feature_taproot's os.killlpg() doesn't exist on Windows and might make Win CI fail
3452021-09-24T12:52:26 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23074 | Package-aware fee estimation by darosior · Pull Request #23074 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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3472021-09-24T12:55:13 <darosior> oO it's in test_runner.py actually
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3522021-09-24T13:08:07 <darosior> Ok, opened an issue: wanted to open a quick PR but it seems non trivial https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23085
3532021-09-24T13:08:34 <darosior> Or at least less trivial than i though, because Windows stuff
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3552021-09-24T13:09:08 <darosior> Can someone (again) re-kick CI on #23074 please?
3562021-09-24T13:09:10 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23074 | Package-aware fee estimation by darosior · Pull Request #23074 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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3632021-09-24T13:23:46 <jonatack> darosior: I think the task will auto-restart (in ~35 minutes)
3642021-09-24T13:24:05 <darosior> Oh, neat
3652021-09-24T13:25:18 <jonatack> in any case, didn't see the "re-run" button available yet, maybe it has to fail n times first
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3692021-09-24T13:33:25 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #23086: test: Add -testactivationheight tests to rpc_blockchain (master...2109-testActH) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23086
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4202021-09-24T15:10:14 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8e9801bfc4ac...01b5cfb9511a
4212021-09-24T15:10:14 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faca688 MarcoFalke: test: Add MiniWallet get_descriptor function
4222021-09-24T15:10:14 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa32cb2 MarcoFalke: test: Use MiniWallet in mempool_persist
4232021-09-24T15:10:14 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fafb7b7 MarcoFalke: test: pep8
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4262021-09-24T15:10:31 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #23047: test: Use MiniWallet in mempool_persist (master...2109-testMempool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23047
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4692021-09-24T16:39:30 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 10 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/01b5cfb9511a...03cb2b480bd5
4702021-09-24T16:39:30 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master eed99cf Martin Ankerl: bench: update nanobench from 4.3.4 to 4.3.6
4712021-09-24T16:39:30 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 468b232 Martin Ankerl: bench: remove unnecessary & incorrect multiplication in MuHashDiv
4722021-09-24T16:39:30 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 153e686 Martin Ankerl: bench: change AddrManGood to AddrManAddThenGood
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4752021-09-24T16:39:47 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #23025: bench: update nanobench add `-min_time` (master...2021-09-update-nanobench) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23025
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5212021-09-24T18:19:27 <prayank> vasild: I read your response in the CJDNS PR. Agree with almost everything. It makes sense. However wanted to know your thoughts on GNUnet.
5222021-09-24T18:19:43 <prayank> My opinion: 1. Software works as expected 2. Website looks good in terms of documentation, honesty, philosophy etc.
5232021-09-24T18:19:52 <prayank> 3. Martin(one of the maintainers) in this presentation: https://git.gnunet.org/gnunet-videos-2020.git/plain/FOSDEM20/dip_gnunet.webm had explained things nicely. I like lot of things he mentioned in video. 4. Still not ready for Bitcoin Core mainnet.
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5292021-09-24T18:34:13 <promag> the user korbanr seems to be spamming
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5332021-09-24T18:41:19 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto reopened pull request #17786: refactor: Nuke policy/fees->mempool circular dependencies (master...20191221-mempool-circ-dep) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17786
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5422021-09-24T18:53:50 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #23089: ci: Increase the dynamic port range to the maximum on native Windows (master...210924-portrange) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23089
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5472021-09-24T19:00:29 <meshcollider> #startmeeting
5482021-09-24T19:00:30 <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Fri Sep 24 19:00:29 2021 UTC. The chair is meshcollider. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
5492021-09-24T19:00:30 <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
5502021-09-24T19:00:34 <meshcollider> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 aj amiti ariard bluematt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag
5512021-09-24T19:00:34 <meshcollider> provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild wumpus
5522021-09-24T19:00:44 <achow101> hi
5532021-09-24T19:00:49 <michaelfolkson> hi
5542021-09-24T19:01:32 <sipa> hi
5552021-09-24T19:01:36 <meshcollider> I don't think there are any proposed topics, last minute proposals?
5562021-09-24T19:02:21 <michaelfolkson> I'll ask a couple of questions on achow101's recent Twitch streams/PRs that he's been working on if nothing else
5572021-09-24T19:03:28 <meshcollider> After another user earlier this week asking about upgrading an old wallet and why they're still only getting legacy addresses, I was wondering if we should add an easier way to fully flush the keypool after an upgrade
5582021-09-24T19:04:14 <meshcollider> achow101: what's the reason we keep using the old pre-HD keypool after upgrade until it has run out? Why not just use the new HD keys immediately?
5592021-09-24T19:04:23 <achow101> it wouldn't be particularly hard to add a function like "newkeypool"
5602021-09-24T19:05:10 <meshcollider> Yeah it'd be super easy, could overload keypoolrefill too, but I wanted to discuss the rationale first
5612021-09-24T19:05:19 <sipa> fwiw, when upgrading from unencrypted to encypted wallet, this already happens
5622021-09-24T19:05:24 <sipa> so i'm sure that code exists
5632021-09-24T19:05:45 <achow101> meshcollider: I don't remember, would have to check the original PR
5642021-09-24T19:06:07 <achow101> sipa: there's a convenient NewKeypool() function :)
5652021-09-24T19:07:34 <prayank> I had one question
5662021-09-24T19:07:38 <meshcollider> Hmm was it #12560
5672021-09-24T19:07:41 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12560 | [wallet] Upgrade path for non-HD wallets to HD by achow101 · Pull Request #12560 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5682021-09-24T19:08:44 <achow101> I think so
5692021-09-24T19:10:16 <meshcollider> Strange, the OP says "When it is used for such an upgrade, the keypool will be regenerated."
5702021-09-24T19:10:26 <meshcollider> So you must have changed it for some reason through the reviews
5712021-09-24T19:10:34 <achow101> meshcollider: I remember now. It's because -upgradewallet would do the wallet before syncing
5722021-09-24T19:11:08 <achow101> I think it had something to do with the wallet being upgraded and then losing coins due to sync?
5732021-09-24T19:11:16 <achow101> maybe not
5742021-09-24T19:11:32 <achow101> I'm pretty sure it was implemented that way because of this comment: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12560#issuecomment-377567454
5752021-09-24T19:11:49 <meshcollider> Interesting
5762021-09-24T19:12:11 <meshcollider> So I feel like we should change it now to flush the keypool on upgrade from non-HD to HD
5772021-09-24T19:12:37 <meshcollider> Or even after every upgrade?
5782021-09-24T19:13:21 <achow101> oh, I think part of it was that it was basically impossible to show a warning to users that they had to make a new backup after -upgradewallet
5792021-09-24T19:13:26 <achow101> but that's no longer relevant with the upgradewallet RPC
5802021-09-24T19:13:51 <achow101> I think it would be reasonable to have upgradewallet flush after upgrading to HD
5812021-09-24T19:13:54 <meshcollider> Cool, I'll open a PR after the meeting then
5822021-09-24T19:14:00 <achow101> as well as a dedicated flush keypool RPC
5832021-09-24T19:14:12 <meshcollider> prayank: Sure, what was your question :)
5842021-09-24T19:14:17 <prayank> I wanted to start working on things explained in this issue and create a draft PR but don't want to waste time and end up with NACKs in few minutes. So what are your thoughts on it?
5852021-09-24T19:14:21 <prayank> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22424
5862021-09-24T19:15:23 <achow101> can you briefly explain the idea?
5872021-09-24T19:15:32 <prayank> Yes
5882021-09-24T19:15:42 <michaelfolkson> Dirty coins are dumped into a subwallet and can't be spent in the original wallet?
5892021-09-24T19:15:54 <prayank> Right
5902021-09-24T19:16:14 <prayank> This was suggested in a discussion by harding
5912021-09-24T19:16:19 <prayank> Let me find the link
5922021-09-24T19:16:35 <meshcollider> Its on the issue, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22018#issuecomment-850803134
5932021-09-24T19:17:08 <michaelfolkson> Always upsides and downsides but one downside appears to be reduction in the success rate of BnB
5942021-09-24T19:17:17 <michaelfolkson> Less UTXOs at its disposal
5952021-09-24T19:18:16 <prayank> Let me explain with one example
5962021-09-24T19:18:27 <achow101> I would generally avoid automatically creating new wallet files when certain behavior occurs
5972021-09-24T19:19:03 <achow101> a "sub wallet" should just be an internal structure
5982021-09-24T19:19:18 <prayank> Alice creates a new address. Bob sends multiple times to it. Becomes dirty. Detected by Core and moved to New wallet with keys and all meta data.
5992021-09-24T19:20:03 <michaelfolkson> achow101: Can a subwallet with UTXOs that can't be spent by the original wallet fit into that "internal structure"? I'm guessing not
6002021-09-24T19:20:22 <michaelfolkson> The divide is pretty clear
6012021-09-24T19:20:26 <achow101> michaelfolkson: it's a program, you can make anything work :)
6022021-09-24T19:20:50 <michaelfolkson> Ha ok, I don't know what you mean by an internal structure then ;)
6032021-09-24T19:21:27 <prayank> michaelfolkson: Maybe not show user a new wallet is created
6042021-09-24T19:21:47 <achow101> with meshcollider's persistent utxo locks, it seems like it would be fairly easy to detect these "dirty utxos" and apply a utxo lock on them
6052021-09-24T19:22:26 <meshcollider> Doesn't avoid_reuse basically do that anyway
6062021-09-24T19:22:34 <achow101> later users can go in, manually unlock those utxos, and do whatever with them. I think that approximately achieves what #22424 describes
6072021-09-24T19:22:34 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22424 | Sub wallet for dirty coins · Issue #22424 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
6082021-09-24T19:23:11 <meshcollider> Could possibly make it easier to do so with an RPC "consolidatedirty" or something
6092021-09-24T19:23:19 <michaelfolkson> meshcollider: Isn't avoid_reuse avoidance rather than making it impossible?
6102021-09-24T19:23:59 <achow101> but in general, I don't particularly like the idea of outright disabling users from spending certain UTXOs just because they are reused
6112021-09-24T19:24:06 <achow101> it is trivial to lock people out of funds by dust spam
6122021-09-24T19:24:13 <achow101> s/is/becomes
6132021-09-24T19:24:33 <michaelfolkson> To me avoidance seems fine. Literally dumping the private key so that the original wallet can't spend a UTXO in any circumstances seems overkill
6142021-09-24T19:24:37 <prayank> meshcollider: avoid_reuse has issues
6152021-09-24T19:25:21 <prayank> achow101: Won't be default. Only for user who want this level of privacy can use it.
6162021-09-24T19:25:34 <achow101> prayank: perhaps improve avoid_reuse rather than throwing it out?
6172021-09-24T19:26:15 <michaelfolkson> prayank: What are the issues?
6182021-09-24T19:26:20 <meshcollider> I like achow101's suggestion of simply locking the UTXOs, but I think then there should be some way to distinguish these types of UTXO for when you do want to consolidate (e.g. red on GUI as suggested)
6192021-09-24T19:26:40 <prayank> achow101: well 2 issues that exist are 1. Unable to spend unconfirmed UTXO 2. OUTPUT_GROUP_MAX_ENTRIES = 100 and I was told both will get NACKs if I try to fix them
6202021-09-24T19:26:57 <achow101> meshcollider: we could add a "lock reason"
6212021-09-24T19:27:28 <achow101> prayank: that's avoidpartialspends, not avoid_reuse
6222021-09-24T19:28:31 <achow101> there is a subtle difference IIRC
6232021-09-24T19:28:32 <prayank> Okay they looked similar things maybe I misunderstood. avoid_reuse is a just a flag right in wallet?
6242021-09-24T19:28:42 <meshcollider> Yes
6252021-09-24T19:28:54 <meshcollider> WALLET_FLAG_AVOID_REUSE
6262021-09-24T19:30:14 <jonatack> hi
6272021-09-24T19:30:28 <achow101> avoid_reuse will cause coin selection to exclude UTXOs that have already been spent previously
6282021-09-24T19:30:41 <prayank> jonatack: any opinion on this?
6292021-09-24T19:31:07 <jonatack> prayank: maybe have a look at src/wallet-init.cpp:47 regarding avoidpartialspends, and grep for it in the codebase
6302021-09-24T19:31:36 <achow101> so it seems like having a wallet with avoid_reuse already solves the problem?
6312021-09-24T19:31:45 <meshcollider> I think a consolidatedirty RPC could still be useful
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6332021-09-24T19:32:13 <meshcollider> No actually that would basically be impossible to do well
6342021-09-24T19:32:51 <meshcollider> Is there an easy way to list the dirty UTXOs being avoided by avoid_reuse?
6352021-09-24T19:33:21 <achow101> meshcollider: listunspent has a "reused" value
6362021-09-24T19:34:01 <meshcollider> True, okay, in that case it should still be possible to manually run them through a mixer or something if desired
6372021-09-24T19:34:38 <achow101> in any case, I think prayank needs to have a look at avoid_reuse in combination with avoidpartialspends first
6382021-09-24T19:34:57 <achow101> before we have any further discussions with changes to make
6392021-09-24T19:35:05 <prayank> Okay I will check these things in detail
6402021-09-24T19:35:20 <prayank> Thanks everyone
6412021-09-24T19:35:23 <meshcollider> prayank: thanks! Glad you have some good ideas for this though :)
6422021-09-24T19:35:30 <meshcollider> Any other topics?
6432021-09-24T19:35:41 <michaelfolkson> A couple of quick ones
6442021-09-24T19:36:02 <meshcollider> michaelfolkson: Go ahead
6452021-09-24T19:36:18 <michaelfolkson> One, any way to speed up the Proposed Timeline for Legacy Wallet and BDB removal?
6462021-09-24T19:36:30 <jonatack> don't worry prayank, it takes time, gathering and slowly accumulating context helps
6472021-09-24T19:36:37 <michaelfolkson> 27.0 and 2024 seems long
6482021-09-24T19:36:46 <michaelfolkson> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20160
6492021-09-24T19:37:04 <michaelfolkson> Given there is migration code
6502021-09-24T19:37:19 <achow101> maybe, but it's intentionally slow and drawn out
6512021-09-24T19:37:32 <michaelfolkson> I just wonder if it is too drawn out :)
6522021-09-24T19:37:43 <achow101> the point is to ease the transition, especially since the migration might not migrate everything
6532021-09-24T19:37:45 <prayank> jonatack: True :)
6542021-09-24T19:38:02 <achow101> (it is difficult to replicate everything that ismine would match on)
6552021-09-24T19:38:12 <michaelfolkson> achow101: Oh the migration might not... ok I didn't consider that
6562021-09-24T19:38:23 <michaelfolkson> Ok that is a reason for being extra cautious
6572021-09-24T19:38:47 <meshcollider> michaelfolkson: why would you like it brought forward? Just code legacy code maintaince reasons?
6582021-09-24T19:39:04 <achow101> the idea is that there will be time to migrate while all of the legacy wallet stuff is still there so that if there are any issues, a backup can be used and the user could just make a new descriptor wallet and move coins
6592021-09-24T19:39:11 <sipa> also, we regularly see people on stackexchange trying to recover funds from wallet.dat files from 2013 or older
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6612021-09-24T19:39:33 <achow101> also, 2024 is not as far away as you think it is :p
6622021-09-24T19:39:47 <michaelfolkson> Ok fair enough, leave as is
6632021-09-24T19:39:48 <sipa> it's closer to today than segwit's activation
6642021-09-24T19:39:50 <meshcollider> Scary thought
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6662021-09-24T19:40:22 <michaelfolkson> And second question, what was the point of the coin selection simulations? Just see how often the different algorithms were used?
6672021-09-24T19:40:53 <achow101> the coin selection simulations are to compare how the algorithms perform
6682021-09-24T19:41:18 <achow101> with perform being somewhat subjective hence all of the data output by the simulation
6692021-09-24T19:41:43 <michaelfolkson> To check that the preference for BnB makes sense? And check that Knapsack and SRD are equal second preference?
6702021-09-24T19:42:19 <michaelfolkson> The conclusion was SRD wasn't quite as good as we thought but not materially enough to change that preference ordering?
6712021-09-24T19:42:38 <achow101> not really check anything specific
6722021-09-24T19:42:52 <meshcollider> There is no preferred order after the new waste metric approach is there
6732021-09-24T19:42:55 <achow101> but moreso see what the effects are in general, e.g. how the utxo set is affected, how fees are affected, etc.
6742021-09-24T19:43:01 <michaelfolkson> I guess if SRD became third preference it would never get used. Knapsack never fails right?
6752021-09-24T19:43:12 <achow101> with the waste metric, there's no explicit preference
6762021-09-24T19:43:16 <sipa> don't forget that these algorithms affect eachother
6772021-09-24T19:43:31 <sipa> introducing one means your wallet's UTXO composition changes
6782021-09-24T19:43:38 <sipa> which may affect the behavior of the other algorithms
6792021-09-24T19:43:56 <michaelfolkson> Hmm ok interesting
6802021-09-24T19:44:23 <achow101> the point of the simulations is to compare the different strategies we could use and see how they behave with a common dataset and common metrics
6812021-09-24T19:44:32 <achow101> and then somewhat try to rationalize why we see certain behaviors
6822021-09-24T19:44:53 <michaelfolkson> Ok cool, makes sense
6832021-09-24T19:44:59 <michaelfolkson> Ok I'm done, thanks
6842021-09-24T19:45:21 <achow101> I have some old gists with other simulation results from a variety of combinations of BnB + knpsack and other things that were proposed in the past
6852021-09-24T19:45:41 <achow101> with some things like different min change targets, different feerates, etc.
6862021-09-24T19:46:06 <michaelfolkson> I knew it wasn't pointless :) Just didn't know what the major objective(s) was
6872021-09-24T19:46:23 <meshcollider> Just briefly, re: #23065, do people think all unlocks should remove both persistent and non-persistent locks, or should it be possible to temporarily unlock a persistent lock
6882021-09-24T19:46:25 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23065 | Allow UTXO locks to be written to wallet DB by meshcollider · Pull Request #23065 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
6892021-09-24T19:46:57 <achow101> I think it should remove both
6902021-09-24T19:47:27 <meshcollider> Ok
6912021-09-24T19:47:47 <meshcollider> That's all then, no more topics?
6922021-09-24T19:48:17 <achow101> just a review beg for #17526
6932021-09-24T19:48:19 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17526 | Add Single Random Draw as an additional coin selection algorithm by achow101 · Pull Request #17526 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
6942021-09-24T19:48:35 <meshcollider> Topical :)
6952021-09-24T19:48:37 <meshcollider> #endmeeting
6962021-09-24T19:48:38 <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
6972021-09-24T19:48:38 <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Fri Sep 24 19:48:37 2021 UTC.
6982021-09-24T19:48:38 <core-meetingbot> Minutes: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-09-24-19.00.moin.txt
6992021-09-24T19:49:43 <michaelfolkson> What's the waste metric PR?
7002021-09-24T19:50:07 <michaelfolkson> Thanks meshcollider achow101 et al
7012021-09-24T19:50:11 <achow101> #22009
7022021-09-24T19:50:15 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22009 | wallet: Decide which coin selection solution to use based on waste metric by achow101 · Pull Request #22009 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
7032021-09-24T19:51:11 <michaelfolkson> Ok I don't understand how there can be no preference but I guess I need to understand #22009
7042021-09-24T19:51:13 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22009 | wallet: Decide which coin selection solution to use based on waste metric by achow101 · Pull Request #22009 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
7052021-09-24T19:51:37 <meshcollider> michaelfolkson: it just tries all picks the "best"
7062021-09-24T19:52:18 <meshcollider> "best" in this case is defined as the lowest waste
7072021-09-24T19:53:12 <michaelfolkson> Ok, BnB was only being used 20 percent of the time from the simulations (presumably that was before the waste metric). Would be much less after the waste metric
7082021-09-24T19:53:33 <prayank> meshcollider: Thanks for working on this PR to add persistence. I will have few beers the day it gets merged to celebrate we improved privacy. Although small change but things like this can surely help.
7092021-09-24T19:53:51 <sipa> prayank: i really don't understand what reuse persistance has to do with privacy
7102021-09-24T19:54:06 <sipa> either you need persistence, or you don't
7112021-09-24T19:54:17 <sipa> if you do, you're out of luck without it; if you don't, it has no effect
7122021-09-24T19:54:19 <prayank> sipa: lockunspent persistence
7132021-09-24T19:54:27 <sipa> sorry, that's what i meant
7142021-09-24T19:54:44 <sipa> i see you bringing this up in various places as a major win for privacy, and i don't understand it :)
7152021-09-24T19:54:49 <sipa> to be it's just missing functionality being fixed
7162021-09-24T19:54:52 <sipa> *to me
7172021-09-24T19:54:59 <sipa> s/fixed/added/
7182021-09-24T19:55:28 <prayank> Right now it makes locks useless. So privacy is improved with the change.
7192021-09-24T19:55:52 <sipa> well, only for people (a) that want to use locks and (b) can't because they're not persistent
7202021-09-24T19:56:11 <sipa> is there a particular use case you have in mind?
7212021-09-24T19:56:22 <prayank> Yes. Let me explain.
7222021-09-24T19:56:52 <shiza> Is that to prevent forced reuse attack, I'm starting to understand your motivation.
7232021-09-24T19:57:06 <shiza> If* is that to...
7242021-09-24T19:57:23 <prayank> A user can lock 1 UTXO associated with some transaction to avoid using it. After few days user relaunches Bitcoin Core, forgets about lock being removed, sends some bitcoin to Binance in which this UTXO is used. Binance asks for source of funds etc.
7252021-09-24T19:57:47 <sipa> ok, but why would they lock anything?
7262021-09-24T19:58:00 <prayank> To keep things separate
7272021-09-24T19:58:10 <sipa> use separate wallets if you want to keep things separate
7282021-09-24T19:58:18 <prayank> I don't want to use same coins for all type of transactions
7292021-09-24T19:58:39 <sipa> perhaps, but i expect you're not a representative user
7302021-09-24T19:58:40 <promag> ^ thats what I suggested in the past
7312021-09-24T19:58:46 <prayank> That's a workaround
7322021-09-24T19:59:41 <sipa> it's not like suddenly everyone is going to start micromanaging their utxo pool like that
7332021-09-24T19:59:59 <promag> separate it's better no? it won't spend from multiple wallets and you don't have to remember to lock
7342021-09-24T20:00:01 <prayank> They already do in other wallets.
7352021-09-24T20:00:04 <michaelfolkson> Do you lock UTXOs prayank?
7362021-09-24T20:00:08 <prayank> Yes
7372021-09-24T20:00:57 <prayank> Even new wallets like sparrow has better options
7382021-09-24T20:01:12 <michaelfolkson> So it is solving a use case for you as a user
7392021-09-24T20:02:13 <prayank> It's fixing a problem which exists since 2012 because maybe all users who care about privacy either started using other wallets or figured out workarounds
7402021-09-24T20:03:29 <promag> I had a case where unspents were locked for a short period before actually sending the spending tx, and we wanted it to be resilient to daemon restart
7412021-09-24T20:04:04 <promag> for that reason we had to store locks externally
7422021-09-24T20:04:13 <sipa> prayank: to me the solution was having multiwallet support
7432021-09-24T20:05:34 <prayank> Anyway I am happy and this change motivated me.
7442021-09-24T20:05:34 <promag> sipa: one case I think makes sense is when you re-receive on an address and don't want to use that utxo
7452021-09-24T20:06:13 <achow101> promag: but avoid_reuse deals with that problem
7462021-09-24T20:06:49 <promag> havent seen that one in detail - does it avoid entirely?
7472021-09-24T20:07:03 <michaelfolkson> prayank: Yeah seems good. I'm not always convinced by some of your plugging privacy leak suggestions but this seems convincing :)
7482021-09-24T20:07:20 <achow101> promag: yes
7492021-09-24T20:08:14 <achow101> sipa: perhaps some people want to have UTXO separation but also one place to see their full balance?
7502021-09-24T20:09:11 <achow101> there's also possibly something like grouping UTXOs, but they can remove between groups
7512021-09-24T20:09:21 <achow101> s/remove/move
7522021-09-24T20:09:52 <promag> the gui/cli can sum balances from loaded wallets
7532021-09-24T20:11:02 <achow101> promag: where in the gui?
7542021-09-24T20:11:24 <promag> somewhere ^^
7552021-09-24T20:11:54 <jonatack> for -getinfo someone could pick up #19092
7562021-09-24T20:11:57 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19092 | cli: display multiwallet total balance in -getinfo by jonatack · Pull Request #19092 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
7572021-09-24T20:12:43 <promag> personally I dont see a reason/case to have some locks persistent and others not
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7592021-09-24T20:13:28 <achow101> I think non-persistent locks have some use for fundrawtx
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7612021-09-24T20:13:36 <promag> how so?
7622021-09-24T20:14:06 <achow101> e.g. funding multiple txs at the same time without them conflicting with each other
7632021-09-24T20:14:13 <promag> fundraw lock=true ... (abort) ... unloadwallet -> no locks in the wallet?
7642021-09-24T20:14:43 <achow101> yeah maybe not
7652021-09-24T20:14:54 <promag> achow101: how does persistent interfere with that?
7662021-09-24T20:15:33 <promag> I think laanwj wants to avoid behavior changes - but I'd be surprise if people rely on the current behavior
7672021-09-24T20:15:39 <promag> *surprised
7682021-09-24T20:15:49 <achow101> indeed
7692021-09-24T20:17:03 <promag> next thing is people wanting to store a "reason" in the lock
7702021-09-24T20:17:31 <achow101> I think that's completely reasonable
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7782021-09-24T20:38:36 <prayank> shiza: Right. One of the goal.
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7802021-09-24T20:42:24 * shiza approves
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7952021-09-24T21:13:01 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] katesalazar opened pull request #23090: Deprecate `main` and `test` `-chain` params (master...20210924) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23090
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