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 1722021-11-09T03:16:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #23470: doc: consolidate legacy wallet documentation (master...wallet_mess_cleanup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23470
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 2202021-11-09T04:10:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mbildwic opened pull request #23471: doc: Add more information about ZMQ topics (master...doc_add_zmq_desc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23471
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 3882021-11-09T07:14:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #23473: build: boring autotools cleanup (master...boring_autotools_cleanup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23473
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 4722021-11-09T08:54:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c702d1fefddc...49143477e774
 4732021-11-09T08:54:58  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b971858 fanquake: doc: remove Boost build note from build-unix.md
 4742021-11-09T08:54:58  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ea360d6 fanquake: doc: remove redundant optionals from build-unix.md
 4752021-11-09T08:54:58  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4914347 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23469: doc: Remove Boost build note from build-unix....
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 4832021-11-09T09:00:56  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/49143477e774...94db963de501
 4842021-11-09T09:00:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master facc352 MarcoFalke: test: Implicitly sync after generate*, unless opted out
 4852021-11-09T09:00:56  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 94db963 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23300: test: Implicitly sync after generate*, unless...
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 4882021-11-09T09:01:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #23469: doc: Remove Boost build note from build-unix.md (master...remove_boost_note) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23469
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 4912021-11-09T09:01:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #23300: test: Implicitly sync after generate*, unless opted out (master...2110-testSyncImp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23300
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 5222021-11-09T09:40:56  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #22567: test: Implicitly sync after generate* to preempt races and intermittent test failures (master...2107-testSync) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22567
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 5292021-11-09T09:46:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #23474: test: scripted-diff cleanups after generate* changes (master...2107-testSync) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23474
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 5942021-11-09T11:06:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] brunoerg opened pull request #23475: wallet: add config to prioritize a solution that doesn't create change in coin selection  (master...2021-11-coinselection-option) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23475
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 6792021-11-09T12:51:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/94db963de501...55dd38552446
 6802021-11-09T12:51:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bd9c6ad zealsham: wallet: Fixed Grammatical error in bdb.h
 6812021-11-09T12:51:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 55dd385 W. J. van der Laan: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23414: wallet: Fix comment grammar in bdb.h
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 6842021-11-09T12:51:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #23414: wallet: Fix comment grammar in bdb.h (master...wallet-fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23414
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 6982021-11-09T13:13:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/55dd38552446...cb4adbd8ab1b
 6992021-11-09T13:13:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 79fd28c amadeuszpawlik: Adds verification step to Schnorr and ECDSA signing
 7002021-11-09T13:13:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cb4adbd W. J. van der Laan: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22934: Add verification to `Sign`, `SignCompact` and...
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 7032021-11-09T13:13:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22934: Add verification to `Sign`, `SignCompact` and `SignSchnorr` (master...schnorr_sig) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22934
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 7102021-11-09T13:21:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #23476: ci, qa: Adjust timeouts per test instead of global `--timeout-factor` (master...211109-timeout) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23476
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 7512021-11-09T14:25:10  <laanwj> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23470#issuecomment-964196414  i really think we're going too fast deprecating berkeleydb wallets
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 7542021-11-09T14:26:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #23476: ci, qa: Adjust timeouts per test instead of global `--timeout-factor` (master...211109-timeout) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23476
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 7632021-11-09T14:35:21  <shiza> fanquake wants documentation not to misled new users to berkelydb. That's a good idea.
 7642021-11-09T14:36:01  <laanwj> i did this in build-unix.md by moving the (descriptor wallet) paragraphs to the top
 7652021-11-09T14:37:42  <laanwj> that's fine, i just think it's too early to hide all of it away, and if you do, we're going to get a lot of complaines from people that can no longer open their wallet
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 7672021-11-09T14:40:19  <sipa> laanwj: it does feel rushed
 7682021-11-09T14:40:33  <sipa> i thought the plan wasn't to remove bdb wallets for a few years at least
 7692021-11-09T14:41:16  <laanwj> this is only about removing the documentation, but still, yes, it feels rushed to me too
 7702021-11-09T14:41:47  <sipa> right, i'm aware
 7712021-11-09T14:42:09  <sipa> it's not because new wallets will by default by sqlite, that we can say that bdb support is something most users don't need to care about anymore
 7722021-11-09T14:42:16  <laanwj> we have to acknowledge the fact that a lot of people will, for various reasons, still be using legacy wallets for a long time
 7732021-11-09T14:42:19  <laanwj> right
 7742021-11-09T14:42:27  <shiza> This doesn't remove the documentation, just demotes it to a file of its own.
 7752021-11-09T14:43:04  <laanwj> i just think it's too early for that, let's wait a major release
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 7812021-11-09T14:48:51  <jnewbery> it seems reasonable to me to collect the legacy wallet documentation into one place
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 7852021-11-09T14:54:24  <sipa> perhaps, but it's going as far as not even listing the libdb dependency anymore
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 7872021-11-09T14:54:47  <sipa> except under a one-sentence link "For information on the legacy wallet"
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 7912021-11-09T14:58:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jamesob closed pull request #23468: make Python bindings externally usable (master...2021-10-python-packaging) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23468
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 7942021-11-09T14:59:09  <jnewbery> #23381 is possible RFM
 7952021-11-09T14:59:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23381 | validation/refactor: refactoring for package submission by glozow · Pull Request #23381 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 7962021-11-09T15:00:23  <laanwj> sipa: right, i think that's my problem with it
 7972021-11-09T15:01:13  <laanwj> not the idea of condensing documentation; i'd be first to agree there's a lot of duplication between the different unix-flavor instructions
 7982021-11-09T15:01:38  <laanwj> jnewbery: thanks, will take a look
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 8082021-11-09T15:15:35  <fanquake> Not just duplication, a lot of it is just outright misleading for new users / builders
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 8102021-11-09T15:16:17  <fanquake> “BDB is needed for wallet support” and similar is not correct. Anyone building Core today, shouldn’t have to care, or know about BDB.
 8112021-11-09T15:17:33  <fanquake> In that case I don’t see the problem with not listing the bdb dependency outright, as it’s not going to be relevant to anyone reading the docs for the first time.
 8122021-11-09T15:17:54  <earnestly> (Another concern is the version of it)
 8132021-11-09T15:19:24  <fanquake> None of this is helped by the confusing reference to wallets by about 4 different names. BDB wallets vs legacy wallets vs SQLite wallets vs descriptor wallets vs just “the wallet” etc. Ideally we just have “the wallet” and legacy wallets, I don’t think descriptor is relevant, nor should really leak into build docs.
 8142021-11-09T15:19:51  <sipa> fanquake: i'd expect most users building Bitcoin Core to want BDB support, for a few years at least
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 8162021-11-09T15:20:35  <sipa> you're right that it's wrong to say it's "needed for wallet support", but that's very different from saying people shouldn't have to care about it?
 8172021-11-09T15:20:48  <fanquake> sipa: not sure when I said that?
 8182021-11-09T15:21:13  <sipa> you literally said that just here
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 8202021-11-09T15:21:35  <fanquake> Yes, new users shouldn’t care?
 8212021-11-09T15:21:36  <_aj_> "Anyone building Core today, shouldn’t have to care, or know about BDB"
 8222021-11-09T15:21:51  <fanquake> Why would they use BDB wallets, which we are actively deprecating
 8232021-11-09T15:22:01  <sipa> are we?
 8242021-11-09T15:22:18  <sipa> there is huge difference between new users and everyone building bitcoin core
 8252021-11-09T15:22:33  <sipa> yes, new wallets won't be BDB anymore
 8262021-11-09T15:22:34  <fanquake> #20160
 8272021-11-09T15:22:35  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20160 | Proposed Timeline for Legacy Wallet and BDB removal · Issue #20160 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 8282021-11-09T15:22:48  <_aj_> (they might have been using pre-compiled binaries befor, and only now have started building themselves too)
 8292021-11-09T15:23:44  <sipa> hmm, that's a bit faster than i would have aimed for, but ok... we still intend to fully support bdb wallets until 2023 according to that
 8302021-11-09T15:24:15  <sipa> i'd expect most users today to find it surprising that they can't load their existing wallets when building with the recommemded procedure
 8312021-11-09T15:25:57  <fanquake> How to build with BDB is still going to be on the docs, just not spread all over the place, duplicating the same info.
 8322021-11-09T15:26:08  <sipa> i'm not objecting to that
 8332021-11-09T15:26:20  <sipa> only to removing it from the dependencies
 8342021-11-09T15:26:58  <sipa> i feel like actual deprecation (like this documentation change seems to be) and how, is a discussion to be had when there is an actual migration path
 8352021-11-09T15:26:58  <fanquake> It’s still going to be in depends, and have the script to build it as well
 8362021-11-09T15:27:58  <sipa> well, not everyone builds that way
 8372021-11-09T15:28:41  <fanquake> I don’t really no how we ended up with build docs that duplicate a list of our dependencies (separate from install instruction) in each build-* when we have a dependencies.md, although is a separate issue
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 8392021-11-09T15:29:07  <sipa> fanquake: that's fair, and i have no objection whatsoever to improving that
 8402021-11-09T15:30:29  <sipa> but i feel that someone just following build instruction, without following links to things marked as legacy, should end up with a binary that supports bdb wallets
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 8422021-11-09T15:31:49  <_aj_> #23168 was really what removed it from the build dependencies, no?
 8432021-11-09T15:31:50  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23168 | build: no-longer fail default configure if BDB isnt available by fanquake · Pull Request #23168 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 8452021-11-09T15:32:33  <fanquake> No. That just removed the incredibly annoying behaviour of having configure fail if you didn’t have BDB installed, and weren’t passing —disable-wallet
 8462021-11-09T15:33:33  <gjvc> fanquake, yes.  that was annoying. :-/
 8472021-11-09T15:34:29  <fanquake> A default configure invocation really shouldn’t fail if you’ve got the minimum required build dependencies installed, and don’t care about anything else.
 8482021-11-09T15:34:48  <_aj_> passing --disable-bdb-wallet would have let you do sqlite only wallets too. the difference is what happens when you run ./configure naively, and don't have bdb installed -- do you get an error forcing you to not be naive, or do you get a bitcoind that won't open your wallet?
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 8502021-11-09T15:35:26  <_aj_> s/would have/could have/
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 8522021-11-09T15:35:52  <fanquake> You’ll likely get a bitcoind that will open SQLite wallets, but not BDB
 8532021-11-09T15:36:25  <fanquake> It still warns in some cases, and will fail if you’ve exploited opted for BDB but don’t have the dependency
 8542021-11-09T15:36:42  <fanquake> *explicitly
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 8562021-11-09T15:39:14  <_aj_> yeah, i think for something as important as being able to open your old wallet, the default / implict behaviour should be "be able to open old wallets" unless you very explicitly opt-out (either with --disable-wallet or some --disable-bdb-wallet). otherwise you're going to give people heart attacks. just my opinion though, not my hill to die on
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 8582021-11-09T15:39:38  <_aj_> so if you don't opt-out but don't have the dependencies, should be an error
 8592021-11-09T15:39:47  <_aj_> (at configure time)
 8602021-11-09T15:40:25  <fanquake> But, for the most part, won’t all these people who have already been compiling, have the dependencies, and thus will get the correct wallet support
 8612021-11-09T15:41:06  <_aj_> maybe they switched to a new machine, or did an upgrade and lost some packages, or setup a new build chroot
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 8632021-11-09T15:41:25  <_aj_> maybe they weren't compiling and are just starting
 8642021-11-09T15:42:36  <fanquake> I don’t agree that having configure fail, by default, unless you install a maybe? “deprecated” dependency, or pass additional flags, is a good behaviour
 8652021-11-09T15:42:50  <_aj_> maybe their old system got hacked and they're setting up a new system hoping that the hacker didn't copy their wallet.dat or they can at least sweep their funds before the attacker cracks their password
 8662021-11-09T15:42:52  <fanquake> Especially not for a new user, or one that doesn’t care about the Core wallet etc
 8672021-11-09T15:43:49  <_aj_> i don't think using existing bdb wallets should be / is deprecated yet
 8682021-11-09T15:43:52  <fanquake> Right, so where do we draw the line for this then? Do we start hard failing of SQLite isn’t available too? To much the old behaviour?
 8692021-11-09T15:45:00  <fanquake> It sounds like we need more discussion in #20160 then. As that currently states that we are going to mark legacy bdb wallets as deprecated started with 23.0
 8702021-11-09T15:45:01  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20160 | Proposed Timeline for Legacy Wallet and BDB removal · Issue #20160 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 8712021-11-09T15:45:17  <_aj_> yeah, hard failing if you don't have sqlite dev and don't specify --disable-sqlite-wallet or --disable-wallet seems sensible to me if sqlite's the default going forward. same reasoning as --with-incompatible-bdb
 8722021-11-09T15:45:51  <_aj_> it says marking the creation of new legacy bdb wallets as deprecated, not using existing bdb wallets
 8732021-11-09T15:46:16  <sipa> having a migration tool also factors into this
 8742021-11-09T15:46:22  <fanquake> And when loading legacy warn that they will soon be unsupported
 8752021-11-09T15:46:32  <_aj_> presumably can't build the migration tool without bdb libraries available though?
 8762021-11-09T15:46:41  <sipa> right
 8772021-11-09T15:46:58  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
 8782021-11-09T15:46:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 11 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/cb4adbd8ab1b...e70fb87a4f8c
 8792021-11-09T15:46:58  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0a79eab glozow: [validation] case-based constructors for ATMPArgs
 8802021-11-09T15:46:58  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cbb3598 glozow: [validation/refactor] store precomputed txdata in workspace
 8812021-11-09T15:46:58  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8fa2936 glozow: [validation] re-introduce bool for whether a transaction is RBF
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 8842021-11-09T15:47:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #23381: validation/refactor: refactoring for package submission (master...2021-10-validation-refactors) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23381
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 8862021-11-09T15:47:18  <_aj_> fanquake: right, "soon be unsupported" ==> "currently completely supported"
 8872021-11-09T15:47:19  <sipa> building the migration tool doesn't as strongly depend on having bdb 4.8 though; it can use later versions too
 8882021-11-09T15:47:40  <sipa> which simplifies things somewhat
 8892021-11-09T15:48:07  <fanquake> _aj_ sure, and “deprecated” is somewhere in between those two
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 8912021-11-09T15:49:19  <fanquake> At least the failing without SQLite case is somewhat mitigated bu the fact that it is much more prevalent
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 8942021-11-09T15:51:59  <_aj_> fanquake: well, the version doesn't matter much for everything but bdb which is a bigger deal? otherwise it's just "you need to install boost, sqlite, bdb, etc; do that; run configure"
 8952021-11-09T15:52:10  <sipa> but if building the prospective migration tool will also require libdb, i'd say it's even more too early to not list libdb as a dependency anymore
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 9022021-11-09T15:57:42  <laanwj> yes, the migration tool could use any bdb version, it can open the database read-only or if that's not possible, make a copy then open it, to prevent the source file from becoming incompatible
 9032021-11-09T15:57:59  <achow101> fwiw, if you try to open a bdb wallet without having bdb compiled, you will be informed that BDB support was not compiled rather than a mysterious error
 9042021-11-09T15:58:20  <achow101> I also have a version of the migration tool that will work without bdb entirely
 9052021-11-09T15:58:48  <laanwj> that's neat, it does seem a bit more risky to me
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 9082021-11-09T15:59:50  <laanwj> e.g. when you'd be reimplementing bdb reading logic, you'd want to be really sure to not accidentally lose keys
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 9102021-11-09T16:02:02  <achow101> yeah. the idea is to first have a version that uses bdb, then later use the one without bdb. then we can test the bdb-less migration against the one with bdb using feature_backwards_compatibility.py (or something like that)
 9112021-11-09T16:02:16  <laanwj> sounds good to me
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 9132021-11-09T16:03:46  <Guest75> Hello.
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 9162021-11-09T16:05:30  <Guest75>  #startmeeting
 9172021-11-09T16:06:14  <Guest75> I read a news that the source codes of Bitcoin will be removed from github, what is the truth of this?
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 9382021-11-09T16:30:57  <shiza> The migration tool supports incompatible bdb? Nice.
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 9642021-11-09T17:06:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] RandyMcMillan closed pull request #23449: contrib/install_db4.sh: http_get if tar.gz does not exist (master...install-db4-check) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23449
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 9722021-11-09T17:12:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e70fb87a4f8c...8ae4ba481ce8
 9732021-11-09T17:12:17  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 037c9ee Sebastian Falbesoner: fix `XOnlyPubKey::IsFullyValid` comment reference
 9742021-11-09T17:12:17  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8ae4ba4 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23400: doc: fix `XOnlyPubKey::IsFullyValid` comment ...
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 9772021-11-09T17:12:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #23400: doc: fix `XOnlyPubKey::IsFullyValid` comment reference (master...202110-doc-fix_xonlypubkey_isvalid_comment) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23400
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 9982021-11-09T17:39:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jnewbery opened pull request #23477: addrman: tidy-ups to unit tests (master...2021-11-addrman-tidyups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23477
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11982021-11-09T21:13:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 closed pull request #20096: wallet: Remove WalletDatabase refcounting and enforce only one Batch access the database at a time (master...rm-bdb-refcount) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20096
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12372021-11-09T21:53:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #23478: build: Add support for Android NDK r23 LTS (master...211109-binutils) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23478
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13222021-11-09T23:47:12  <Chris_Stewart_5> What is the purpose of this HandleMissingData() : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/77a2f5d30c5ecb764b8a7c098492e1f5cdec90f0/src/script/interpreter.cpp#L1714
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13312021-11-09T23:55:43  <Chris_Stewart_5> I guess i don't understand why we wouldn't fail earlier if data is missing rather than failing in the signature checker/interpreter
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