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162021-11-12T01:22:14 <pinheadmz_> is there any taproot activity on testnet? or is it all on signet?
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182021-11-12T01:26:48 <sipa> We don't always test consensus changes, but when we do, we do it on mainnet.
192021-11-12T01:27:26 <pinheadmz_> lol sipa did you start drinking early ;-)
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212021-11-12T01:33:52 <pinheadmz_> ok found some https://blockstream.info/testnet/address/tb1pzlm7sgt8s05k06988yp3nj2nsjaaqjfvgeja95t9dgz8ckrncfys70st06
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322021-11-12T02:01:30 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 10 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/bc03823e26d1...c1fb30633b6d
332021-11-12T02:01:30 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b6487dc fanquake: Squashed 'src/minisketch/' content from commit 89629eb2c7
342021-11-12T02:01:30 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 07f0a61 fanquake: Merge commit 'b6487dc4ef47ec9ea894eceac25f37d0b806f8aa' as 'src/minisketch'
352021-11-12T02:01:30 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b2904ce Cory Fields: build: add configure checks for minisketch
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382021-11-12T02:01:48 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #23114: Add minisketch subtree and integrate into build/test (master...minisketch_integration_takeover) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23114
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412021-11-12T02:05:21 <roasbeef> so have been debugging an issue w/ lnd and btcpay which led me to inquire w.r.t how many listening non-pruned nodes there actually are rn: https://twitter.com/roasbeef/status/1458977490160947200?s=20
422021-11-12T02:05:36 <roasbeef> does that figure look accurate to ppl? prepping to run a script on my own nodes peer.json/dat rn
432021-11-12T02:05:55 <roasbeef> background is that in lnd 0.13 we started to "officially" support pruned nodes by fetching blocks we need from the p2p network if the node doesn't have it
442021-11-12T02:06:03 <roasbeef> we get those peers from the connected set of the pruned node
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462021-11-12T02:06:18 <roasbeef> but we're seeing issues where many of their peers are actually _also_ pruned, so lnd can't get the blocks it needs
472021-11-12T02:10:43 <roasbeef> I recall there was something lofty proposal for nodes to start advertising their block range/ guessing that never fully took off?
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602021-11-12T02:57:09 <sipa> roasbeef: there were some ideas around that, but i think that's what eventually turned into the NETWORK_LIMITED proposal
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622021-11-12T02:57:57 <sipa> roasbeef: do you mean nodes look like they're pruned but advertizing it incorrectly?
632021-11-12T03:14:48 <roasbeef> sipa: no I think they're advertising it correctly, just this situation where these pruned btcpay bitcoind nodes need to get blocks from peers, but turns out all their peers are actually pruned themselves
642021-11-12T03:15:18 <roasbeef> ran a script of one of my own btcd nodes, and out of the 37k peers in its peers.json, 1606 of them (4%) signal both witness and aren't pruned
652021-11-12T03:16:55 <roasbeef> this is just addrs it has, no guarantee all of them are actually live/reachable/listening
662021-11-12T03:19:26 <sipa> perhaps this is more a problem that too few of the addrs you learn are reachable/listening?
672021-11-12T03:19:50 <sipa> (rather than too few of those listening/reachable ones being non-pruned)
682021-11-12T03:20:04 <roasbeef> perhaps, but this isn't just my node, luke's stats (however they calcuated) show a similar percentage when taking into account all nodes he's ever seen
692021-11-12T03:20:25 <roasbeef> basically have bene trying to get to the bottom of this weird bug for btcpay server, and turns out it's that the nodes of all these users are only connected to other pruned nodes for the most part
702021-11-12T03:20:44 <sipa> interesting
712021-11-12T03:21:32 <sipa> so is there some sort of clustering behavior, where pruned nodes are more likely to be connected to other pruned nodes than average?
722021-11-12T03:22:55 <roasbeef> yeh not sure, perhaps? our code will also periodically poll getnodeaddresses as well to account for the fact that a node amy just have a set of poor connections
732021-11-12T03:23:08 <luke-jr> well, with 8 outbound connections, that's only ~12%, so if archive nodes are <12%, it's fairly possible you might just not have one?
742021-11-12T03:23:10 <roasbeef> but seems in practice that isn't helping out much either
752021-11-12T03:23:49 <sipa> my own long-running node seems to have mostly pruned peers as outbounds as well
762021-11-12T03:24:10 <roasbeef> the plot thickens...
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842021-11-12T03:45:18 <jeremyrubin> We could add a rule to give inbound priority to unpruned nodes? It's not gameable since we can ask for a random piece of txdata as a challenge response game
852021-11-12T03:46:17 <jeremyrubin> E.g. oh you say you're a full node? Give me the nth txn in block at height x
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872021-11-12T03:47:08 <jeremyrubin> Then you can spv check it and ban if not correct
882021-11-12T03:47:52 <jeremyrubin> It isn't bad overhead since this is for outbound connections from the full node, so presumably were ok making that more expensive to do
892021-11-12T03:48:40 <jeremyrubin> This can even be done on some basis (e.g. daily?) to ensure the node doesn't switch to pruned
902021-11-12T03:53:19 <sipa> you can't ask for arbitrary transactions
912021-11-12T03:53:26 <sipa> only full blocks
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932021-11-12T03:55:44 <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: if I have a full node, I can pass on the challenge ;)
942021-11-12T03:56:15 <luke-jr> the real questionis why a node should insist on a peer being archival, unless it is in IBD..
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1002021-11-12T04:13:26 <sipa> right
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1022021-11-12T04:15:34 <achow101> are you sure they're all pruned? NETWORK and NETWORK_LIMITED aren't mutually exclusive
1032021-11-12T04:16:22 <sipa> oh!
1042021-11-12T04:17:05 <achow101> we advertise both without pruning, and just NETWORK_LIMITED if pruned
1052021-11-12T04:17:43 <sipa> only 3 out of my 10 outbound peers don't have NETWORK
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1352021-11-12T05:50:18 <jeremyrubin> sipa: if you can request a block you can definitely request a txn?
1362021-11-12T05:51:38 <jeremyrubin> luke-jr if you run archival it's low cost for you to do the challenge and it's only outbound peers (one you picked) doing the challenge also gets you a slot on that node you wouldn't otherwise get
1372021-11-12T05:52:16 <jeremyrubin> A node should try to know how to reach one archival node to help new nodes join the network
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1552021-11-12T07:11:17 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #23489: build: Qt 5.15.2 (master...qt_5_15_2_rebased) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23489
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1772021-11-12T08:49:19 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c1fb30633b6d...1ff265a20c36
1782021-11-12T08:49:19 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a749fa5 John Newbery: [addrman] Remove AddrMan friends
1792021-11-12T08:49:19 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7784a9a John Newbery: [addrman] [tests] Remove deterministic argument and member from AddrManTes...
1802021-11-12T08:49:19 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d02098d John Newbery: [addrman] [tests] Tidy up unused arguments in addrman test functions
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1832021-11-12T08:49:36 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #23477: addrman: tidy up unit tests (master...2021-11-addrman-tidyups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23477
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1882021-11-12T08:58:05 <laanwj> ^ seems like a bit of a rushed merge? i think jnewbery should have had time to respond to thestack's nits
1892021-11-12T08:59:44 <laanwj> even if the response is 'i prefer not to do this'
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2042021-11-12T09:43:48 <jnewbery> laanwj: I've responded to the review comments
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2092021-11-12T10:00:09 <b10c> roasbeef: based on https://www.dsn.kastel.kit.edu/bitcoin/ data on publicly reachable nodes: 12.50% pruned SegWit nodes
2102021-11-12T10:00:46 <b10c> 76.32% are non-pruned SegWit (i.e. have NETWORK, NETWORK_LIMITED, and WITNESS set)
2112021-11-12T10:01:39 <b10c> https://gist.github.com/0xB10C/c9d715500665df46862e35b0e2b4209d
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2132021-11-12T10:02:31 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #23491: scripted-diff: Move minisketchwrapper to src/node (master...2111-libNode) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23491
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2202021-11-12T10:43:40 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #23492: test: tidy up addrman unit tests (master...2111-testAddrm) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23492
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2242021-11-12T10:54:27 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #23493: Use c++17 in clang-format (master...2111-srcFormat17) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23493
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2392021-11-12T11:32:07 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #23494: build: minor boost tidyups (master...boost_cleanups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23494
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2492021-11-12T12:04:47 <laanwj> jnewbery: thanks
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3012021-11-12T14:10:32 <sipa> jeremyrubin: getdata for transactions only works for recently announced ones
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3132021-11-12T14:36:27 <MarcoFalke> Assuming I have a minisketch with capacity 1, two entries. And another one with no entries. Does Decode(1) on the difference return false or true?
3142021-11-12T14:36:37 <MarcoFalke> I'd expect false, but it does return true in my fuzz test
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3172021-11-12T14:40:00 <sipa> MarcoFalke: is one of the entries 0?
3182021-11-12T14:40:29 <MarcoFalke> The entries are 4193909242 and 1
3192021-11-12T14:41:01 <MarcoFalke> the large one is f9f9f9fa in hex
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3212021-11-12T14:41:31 <sipa> there is always a probability that decoding succeeds even if the capacity is exceeded
3222021-11-12T14:41:47 <sipa> the fuzzer may have found an input for which that is the case
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3272021-11-12T14:54:48 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #23495: build: Bump Fonconfig version up to 2.12.6 (master...211112-fc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23495
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3302021-11-12T15:01:14 <MarcoFalke> ok, thx
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3322021-11-12T15:01:37 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #23496: fuzz: Add minisketch fuzz test (master...2111-fuzzMiniSketch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23496
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3402021-11-12T15:08:20 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1ff265a20c36...c9dd5c8d6e59
3412021-11-12T15:08:20 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fab9264 MarcoFalke: test: Remove unused CDataStream copy
3422021-11-12T15:08:20 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0000eda MarcoFalke: style: Use 4 spaces for indentation, not 5
3432021-11-12T15:08:20 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c9dd5c8 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23492: test: tidy up addrman unit tests
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3462021-11-12T15:11:08 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #23492: test: tidy up addrman unit tests (master...2111-testAddrm) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23492
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3592021-11-12T15:49:34 <jnewbery> sipa: getrawtransaction will succeed if the block hash is passed (and the block is available on disk)
3602021-11-12T15:50:03 <sipa> jnewbery: we're talking about P2P
3612021-11-12T15:50:15 <sipa> (i thought?)
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3682021-11-12T16:13:44 <jnewbery> I think jeremyrubin is proposing to add a new p2p message that requests a tx from a given block
3692021-11-12T16:14:17 <jnewbery> > < jeremyrubin> E.g. oh you say you're a full node? Give me the nth txn in block at height x
3702021-11-12T16:14:38 <sipa> i didn't interpret that as adding a new message, but sure, no technical reason why that couldn't be done
3712021-11-12T16:15:13 <sipa> generating merkle proofs for that would be kind of expensive though
3722021-11-12T16:15:23 <sipa> (similar to the BIP37 dos potential)
3732021-11-12T16:15:25 <jnewbery> right, I'm not saying it's a good idea :)
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3752021-11-12T16:22:45 <jeremyrubin> You can't get dos'd through this because it's only for outbound peers from the prover, and we only really need to do a challenge every now and again. You could of course just send the whole block but that seems a waste of bandwidth
3762021-11-12T16:23:12 <jeremyrubin> You can limit how often you're willing to re verify
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3782021-11-12T16:27:13 <luke-jr> why a merkle proof?
3792021-11-12T16:27:15 <luke-jr> just send the txid?
3802021-11-12T16:27:51 <luke-jr> or heck, it could just be a random 16 bytes from the block (though that forces a specific serialisation so maybe worse)
3812021-11-12T16:28:16 <luke-jr> but *any* proof is going to be MITM-able, and why is there a desire to do so anyway?
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3832021-11-12T16:29:49 <sipa> you could do better actually
3842021-11-12T16:29:52 <sipa> send a challenge
3852021-11-12T16:29:54 <sipa> and a txid
3862021-11-12T16:30:14 <sipa> and have them respond with hmac(key=challenge, msg=tx)
3872021-11-12T16:31:03 <sipa> (still unconvinced this is desirable at all, just pointing out that one can prove to have a tx without building a merkle proof for it, if the challenger already has the tx as well)
3882021-11-12T16:34:59 <jeremyrubin> The verifier runs a pruned node
3892021-11-12T16:35:48 <jeremyrubin> They have headers but not the tx, that's why the challenge is the nth transaction at some block
3902021-11-12T16:36:15 <sipa> ah, right
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3922021-11-12T16:37:08 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #23497: Add `src/node/` and `src/wallet/` code to `node::` and `wallet::` namespaces (master...pr/names) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23497
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3942021-11-12T16:37:37 <jeremyrubin> W.r.t. it being MITM-able, the challenge is forward able sure. But only to a dishonest archival node.
3952021-11-12T16:38:23 <jeremyrubin> You can also do a fair coin flip type thing to select the block/txn so that it guarantees there's no possibility of forwarding the request to any honest node even w rate limit
3962021-11-12T16:38:42 <jeremyrubin> But tbh this is too in the weeds.
3972021-11-12T16:39:05 <jeremyrubin> The main question is is it desirable to ensure that every pruned node has a connection to at least one archival node?
3982021-11-12T16:40:20 <sipa> i'm not sure that it is
3992021-11-12T16:40:25 <sipa> (also not sure that it isn't)
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4022021-11-12T16:59:16 <jeremyrubin> Is it desirable to ensure that a member of the graph of archival nodes willing to serve blocks is easily discoverable for new peers?
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4042021-11-12T17:02:07 <sipa> nodes rumour peer addresses regardless of whether they're node_network or not
4052021-11-12T17:02:32 <sipa> so unless there is some reason to believe there is a clustering effect that we want to counteract, i'm not sure that's a useful criterion
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4202021-11-12T17:39:40 <Guest78> าีั
4212021-11-12T17:39:43 <Guest78> kuy
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4242021-11-12T17:43:55 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #23498: test: remove unnecessary block rehashing prior to solving (master...202111-test-remove_superflous_block_rehashs_before_solving) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23498
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4292021-11-12T18:17:16 <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: the pruned verifier just asks his own peer to verify it for him
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4332021-11-12T18:58:47 <jeremyrubin> As noted above making the challenge the result of a fair coin flip blocks that forwardability issue
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4662021-11-12T20:42:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #23499: multiprocess: Add interfaces::Node::broadCastTransaction method (master...pr/ipc-broadcast) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23499
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4862021-11-12T21:31:37 <bitcoin-git> [gui] achow101 opened pull request #469: gui: Load Base64 PSBT string from file (master...b64-psbt-gui) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/469
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4932021-11-12T21:47:23 <achow101> anyone doing taproot spends notice that sometimes taproot spends end up severely under the feerate target?
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4952021-11-12T21:49:08 <sipa> achow101: hmm, how?
4962021-11-12T21:50:00 <achow101> sipa: seems like with some(?) script path spends it ends up way under the target feerate
4972021-11-12T21:50:17 <achow101> I think it's that the estimation occurs on the key path, but then script path is actually used
4982021-11-12T21:50:40 <achow101> just noticed this while trying to construct a script path spend
4992021-11-12T21:51:35 <achow101> also trying to write a test, and the size esimation seems to be ending up 1 byte short too (key path spend fails, with estimated vsize 1 vbyte less than real vsize)
5002021-11-12T21:54:17 <sipa> ah yes, for script path spend i can imagine it's wildly off
5012021-11-12T21:56:11 <achow101> why would it be?
5022021-11-12T21:56:25 <achow101> if the actual signer uses the script path, shouldn't the dummy signer figure that out as well?
5032021-11-12T21:56:33 <sipa> hmm
5042021-11-12T21:57:07 <achow101> I think the dummy signer thinks we have the privkey for the internal key
5052021-11-12T21:57:12 <achow101> but for this particular construction, we don't
5062021-11-12T21:58:41 <sipa> it's inherently difficult, because the role constructing the transaction may not know what path the signers will be using
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5092021-11-12T22:02:44 <achow101> sure, but in the single signer context, it shouldn't be
5102021-11-12T22:03:29 <sipa> true
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5292021-11-12T23:13:02 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 16 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c9dd5c8d6e59...5cc083cd46ad
5302021-11-12T23:13:02 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a874637 fanquake: build: AX_CHECK_LINK_FLAG serial 6
5312021-11-12T23:13:02 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5e6bc43 fanquake: build: cleanup AX_CHECK_LINK_FLAG() usage
5322021-11-12T23:13:02 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b3dd6c1 fanquake: build: AX_CHECK_COMPILE_FLAG() serial 6
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5352021-11-12T23:13:19 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #23473: build: boring autotools cleanup (master...boring_autotools_cleanup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23473
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5472021-11-12T23:48:05 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] rex4539 opened pull request #23500: depends, wallet: fix typos (master...typos) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23500
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