12022-01-20T00:01:47 <theStack_> _aj_: true, though that wouldn't prevent users from burning funds (though one could argue that reducing the supply is just a donation to everyone else)
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32022-01-20T00:05:33 <_aj_> theStack_: "also"
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52022-01-20T00:11:22 <theStack_> _aj_: ah, right
62022-01-20T00:14:27 <theStack_> but UTXO set exclusion is consensus-relevant, no? thinking about utreexo and assumeutxo, it wouldn't be healthy if UTXO sets differ between nodes
72022-01-20T00:15:23 <sipa> So far nothing relies on having a normalized UTXO set, I think.
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92022-01-20T00:15:51 <sipa> Apart from the fact that `gettxoutsetinfo`'s hash will differ - but we can rename the hash field's name to indicate that.
102022-01-20T00:18:22 <_aj_> sipa: if you track the utxos you've excluded via muhash, i think you could just add that to the muhash of the utxos you haven't excluded and get the same result
112022-01-20T00:18:48 <sipa> Interesting!
122022-01-20T00:25:12 <theStack_> nice indeed
132022-01-20T00:25:56 <_aj_> sipa: oh, and since they're unspendable, when you initially go to exclude them, if you go through the utxo set in height order, you should be able to recreate the excluded hashes at every block height fairly efficiently...
142022-01-20T00:26:19 <_aj_> sipa: (ie, without having to look up any blocks from disk)
152022-01-20T00:34:52 <theStack_> currently, if i run let's say a 0.8 node and 22.0 one syncing to the tip, the UTXO sets are equal? or were there already UTXOs exclusions introduced in previous versions?
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172022-01-20T00:40:57 <_aj_> theStack_: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2791 was included in 0.9 not 0.8 i think?
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212022-01-20T00:58:13 <theStack_> _aj_: thanks, interesting
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252022-01-20T01:31:46 <achow101> theStack_: I think that is reasonable
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282022-01-20T01:37:23 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/06b636976613...7102f7d6f3c4
292022-01-20T01:37:23 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ce6dd2f fanquake: zeromq 4.3.4
302022-01-20T01:37:23 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6897c4b fanquake: build: patch depends zeromq to fix building on NetBSD Current
312022-01-20T01:37:23 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7102f7d fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23956: build: use zeromq 4.3.4 in depends & fix NetB...
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342022-01-20T01:37:42 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #23956: build: use zeromq 4.3.4 in depends & fix NetBSD 10 build (master...zeromq_4_3_4) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23956
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392022-01-20T01:47:17 <fanquake> Blocked 13rAXwNNnaAuCJA3z1REfJbJNMwgK4LBTC from the bitcoin/ org, as they were spamming the wiki in the bips repo
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512022-01-20T03:42:04 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #24106: policy: treat P2TR outputs with invalid x-only pubkey as non-standard (master...202201-policy-treat_p2tr_with_invalid_xpubkey_as_nonstandard) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24106
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752022-01-20T05:06:27 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7102f7d6f3c4...a541e5d51988
762022-01-20T05:06:27 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dc5d6b0 Andrew Chow: fs: Make compatible with boost 1.78
772022-01-20T05:06:27 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a541e5d fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24104: fs: Make compatible with boost 1.78
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802022-01-20T05:06:44 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24104: fs: Make compatible with boost 1.78 (master...fix-fs-path-plus) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24104
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842022-01-20T05:14:35 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a541e5d51988...63fc2f5cce6a
852022-01-20T05:14:35 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e2ab9f8 fanquake: build: disable external signer on Windows
862022-01-20T05:14:35 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 63fc2f5 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24065: build: explicitly disable support for externa...
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892022-01-20T05:14:51 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24065: build: explicitly disable support for external signing on Windows (master...no_external_signer_win_openbsd) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24065
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1342022-01-20T09:57:54 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] w0xlt opened pull request #24108: Replace RecursiveMutex `cs_addrLocal` with Mutex, and rename it (master...change_cs_addrLocal) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24108
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1592022-01-20T11:43:41 <michaelfolkson> fanquake: Thanks for the blocking notifications
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1732022-01-20T13:41:31 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24111: build: force CRCCheck in Windows installer (master...force_win_installer_crccheck) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24111
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1782022-01-20T13:59:19 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/63fc2f5cce6a...1824644a363b
1792022-01-20T13:59:19 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a7da140 w0xlt: scripted-diff: rename cs_mapLocalHost -> g_maplocalhost_mutex
1802022-01-20T13:59:19 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5e7e4c9 w0xlt: refactor: replace RecursiveMutex g_maplocalhost_mutex with Mutex
1812022-01-20T13:59:19 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1824644 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24099: Replace `RecursiveMutex cs_mapLocalHost` with...
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1842022-01-20T13:59:36 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24099: Replace `RecursiveMutex cs_mapLocalHost` with Mutex, and rename it (master...mutex-mapLocalHost) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24099
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2032022-01-20T14:49:01 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24112: build: pass win32-dll to LT_INIT() (master...libtool_init_win32_dll) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24112
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2062022-01-20T14:49:47 <hebasto> nice to see how #19303 is being fulfilled
2072022-01-20T14:49:49 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19303 | Replace all of the RecursiveMutex instances with the Mutex ones · Issue #19303 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2152022-01-20T15:12:47 <theStack_> hebasto: indeed \o/ will be tough when it comes to cs_main, the final boss
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2172022-01-20T15:14:02 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #24113: test, refactor: add GetTransaction() coverage, part 2 (master...rpc_rawtransaction-test-followups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24113
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2442022-01-20T17:12:29 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1824644a363b...b60c477d54bb
2452022-01-20T17:12:29 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faedb11 MarcoFalke: refactor tests to fix ubsan suppressions
2462022-01-20T17:12:29 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b60c477 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23629: refactor tests to fix ubsan suppressions
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2492022-01-20T17:12:46 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #23629: refactor tests to fix ubsan suppressions (master...2111-testInt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23629
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2642022-01-20T17:43:52 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b60c477d54bb...e3ce019667fb
2652022-01-20T17:43:52 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 36012ef Antoine Poinsot: qa: test descriptors with mixed xpubs and const pubkeys
2662022-01-20T17:43:52 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e3ce019 Andrew Chow: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23171: qa: test descriptors with mixed xpubs and con...
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2692022-01-20T17:44:10 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 merged pull request #23171: qa: test descriptors with mixed xpubs and const pubkeys (master...desc_test_mix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23171
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2842022-01-20T18:17:46 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prusnak opened pull request #24115: ARMv8 SHA2 Intrinsics (master...armv8-shani) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24115
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2972022-01-20T19:01:22 <laanwj> #startmeeting
2982022-01-20T19:01:23 <core-meetingbot`> Meeting started Thu Jan 20 19:01:22 2022 UTC. The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
2992022-01-20T19:01:23 <core-meetingbot`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
3002022-01-20T19:01:29 <sipsorcery> hi
3012022-01-20T19:01:30 <b10c> hi
3022022-01-20T19:01:40 <laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball
3032022-01-20T19:01:42 <laanwj> morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
3042022-01-20T19:01:44 <hebasto> hi
3052022-01-20T19:01:48 <jonatack> hi
3062022-01-20T19:01:52 <MarcoFalke> hi
3072022-01-20T19:01:55 <achow101> hi
3082022-01-20T19:01:58 <_aj_> hi
3092022-01-20T19:01:59 <lightlike> hi
3102022-01-20T19:02:01 <kvaciral[m]> hi
3112022-01-20T19:02:35 <laanwj> hi
3122022-01-20T19:02:46 <laanwj> it looks like there have been no proposed meeting topics this week (this can be done using #proposedmeetingtopic <topic>), any last-minute ones?
3132022-01-20T19:02:55 <jarolrod> Hi
3142022-01-20T19:03:32 <jeremyrubin> hi
3152022-01-20T19:03:35 <sipa> hi
3162022-01-20T19:04:39 <laanwj> #topic High priority for review
3172022-01-20T19:04:39 <core-meetingbot`> topic: High priority for review
3182022-01-20T19:05:06 <MarcoFalke> Can I have #23438 pls
3192022-01-20T19:05:07 <laanwj> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8 : 9 blockers, 1 chasing concept ACK
3202022-01-20T19:05:09 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23438 | refactor: Use spans of std::byte in serialize by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #23438 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3212022-01-20T19:06:06 <laanwj> MarcoFalke: added
3222022-01-20T19:06:17 <MarcoFalke> thx
3232022-01-20T19:06:51 <cfields> hi
3242022-01-20T19:08:01 <laanwj> anything else to add/remove, or is anything ready for merge?
3252022-01-20T19:09:11 <_aj_> i think #23508 is rfm but it needs a few more acks :)
3262022-01-20T19:09:13 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns · Pull Request #23508 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3272022-01-20T19:09:14 <jonatack> #23604 had 4 ACKs before the last rebase, should be close
3282022-01-20T19:09:16 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23604 | Use Sock in CNode by vasild · Pull Request #23604 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3292022-01-20T19:09:43 <laanwj> ah yes #23604 should definitely be close, and #23508 too
3302022-01-20T19:09:45 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23604 | Use Sock in CNode by vasild · Pull Request #23604 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3312022-01-20T19:09:46 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns · Pull Request #23508 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3322022-01-20T19:10:27 *** bomb-on <bomb-on!~bomb-on@194.144.47.113> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3332022-01-20T19:10:45 <jonatack> #22932 had acks by hebasto, achow101 and vasild. I updated it to take review feedback, re-acks welcome
3342022-01-20T19:10:47 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22932 | Add CBlockIndex lock annotations, guard nStatus/nFile/nDataPos/nUndoPos by cs_main by jonatack · Pull Request #22932 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3352022-01-20T19:11:00 <fjahr> hi
3362022-01-20T19:11:10 <jonatack> it now contains a few commits by hebasto and vasild
3372022-01-20T19:11:25 *** rottenstonks_ <rottenstonks_!~rottensto@user/rottenstonks> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3382022-01-20T19:11:46 <jonatack> will look at #23508
3392022-01-20T19:11:48 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns · Pull Request #23508 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3402022-01-20T19:11:49 <laanwj> great!
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3422022-01-20T19:12:44 <fjahr> already started reviewing #23508, should be done soon as well
3432022-01-20T19:12:46 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns · Pull Request #23508 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3442022-01-20T19:13:11 *** rottenstonks_ is now known as rottenstonks
3452022-01-20T19:14:22 <laanwj> any other topics?
3462022-01-20T19:15:16 <_aj_> is the 23.0 milestone up to date?
3472022-01-20T19:15:54 <jeremyrubin> if there's nothing else i think it's interesting to talk about making a style-change epoch after split-off
3482022-01-20T19:16:08 <laanwj> _aj_: i don't know, do you see anything off?
3492022-01-20T19:16:25 <laanwj> style change epoch? oh no...
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3512022-01-20T19:16:32 <_aj_> laanwj: just wonering if i should go through that a few times before feature freeze
3522022-01-20T19:16:34 <MarcoFalke> Yeah, let us know if anything is missing from it or should be removed
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3542022-01-20T19:17:00 <MarcoFalke> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/52
3552022-01-20T19:18:41 *** Talkless <Talkless!~Talkless@mail.dargis.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3562022-01-20T19:19:28 <laanwj> #topic Style change after split-off (jeremyrubin)
3572022-01-20T19:19:29 <core-meetingbot`> topic: Style change after split-off (jeremyrubin)
3582022-01-20T19:19:34 <jeremyrubin> see #22969
3592022-01-20T19:19:35 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22969 | Release schedule for 23.0 · Issue #22969 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3602022-01-20T19:19:57 <jeremyrubin> the concept would be that after split off for T days bigger cleanups can be prioritized
3612022-01-20T19:20:08 <jeremyrubin> and then after T days, cleanups would not really be considered
3622022-01-20T19:20:15 <laanwj> not a fan of all-over-the-place changes that break every other PR just for style's sake tbh
3632022-01-20T19:20:17 <sipa> concept nack in general on invasive style changes
3642022-01-20T19:20:21 <laanwj> yeah
3652022-01-20T19:20:22 <jeremyrubin> this is to allow for cleanups while minimizing rebase work
3662022-01-20T19:20:31 <sipa> refactors that are useful for other reasons... sure, on a case-by-case basis
3672022-01-20T19:20:48 <laanwj> not sure anyone cares anymore but we used to not do this and i think for good reason
3682022-01-20T19:20:48 <jeremyrubin> i am nack on the invasive changes as well, but it seems people do continually want things like changing all C style casts
3692022-01-20T19:21:01 <laanwj> nack on the casts change, not only is it invasive it's risky
3702022-01-20T19:21:21 <_aj_> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15465 maybe relevant history/context
3712022-01-20T19:21:22 <jeremyrubin> or things like moving class A from file X to file Y to clean a linker supression
3722022-01-20T19:22:18 <_aj_> personally i like/prefer the "do useful work, and clean up as you go" approach that we're already doing
3732022-01-20T19:22:19 <laanwj> you mean breaking circular dependencies? yeah, that can be valid
3742022-01-20T19:22:25 <MarcoFalke> [20:20] <sipa> refactors that are useful for other reasons... sure, on a case-by-case basis
3752022-01-20T19:22:33 <jeremyrubin> e.g. #17786
3762022-01-20T19:22:34 <MarcoFalke> Agree with sipa that this is a case-by-case decision
3772022-01-20T19:22:34 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17786 | refactor: Nuke policy/fees->mempool circular dependencies by hebasto · Pull Request #17786 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3782022-01-20T19:22:36 *** Kaizen_Kintsugi_ <Kaizen_Kintsugi_!~Kaizen_Ki@node-1w7jr9yi65te66oclonkh96li.ipv6.telus.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3792022-01-20T19:22:38 <sipa> aj: agreew
3802022-01-20T19:22:59 <laanwj> i don't see that as much of a style thing
3812022-01-20T19:23:02 <jeremyrubin> well the point would more be to still do these things when they make sense, but contain it to a minimally disruptive part of the release cycle
3822022-01-20T19:23:06 *** Kaizen_Kintsugi_ <Kaizen_Kintsugi_!~Kaizen_Ki@node-1w7jr9yi65te66oclonkh96li.ipv6.telus.net> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3832022-01-20T19:23:09 <laanwj> circular dependencies are just bad design
3842022-01-20T19:23:22 <jeremyrubin> laanwj: but you can see how that's very disruptive for rebasing
3852022-01-20T19:23:28 <laanwj> sure
3862022-01-20T19:23:49 <jeremyrubin> so the point of a cleanup epoch would be to do cleanups like that only in e.g. the first month after split off
3872022-01-20T19:23:58 <_aj_> it's maximally disruptive for anything we want to backport to the latest release though?
3882022-01-20T19:24:04 <MarcoFalke> jeremyrubin: Why would a specific epoch be minimally disruptive? I'd say it depends on the case
3892022-01-20T19:24:09 <sipa> I conceptually agree that there are better/worse times to make invasive changes (assuming they're justified)... but they also have to be ready at that point.
3902022-01-20T19:24:18 <jeremyrubin> yeah i'm not tied to a specific time
3912022-01-20T19:24:24 <sipa> And indeed, when that is depends on the case.
3922022-01-20T19:24:38 <MarcoFalke> If you are touching a part of the code that no one else is touching, then the time doesn't matter
3932022-01-20T19:24:39 <jeremyrubin> just thinking that it might be something that leads to less contributor frustration
3942022-01-20T19:25:05 <jeremyrubin> if people who work on these things know when it is appropriate and people who don't don't have to argue for not merging a conflict
3952022-01-20T19:25:21 <MarcoFalke> If you are touding a part of the code that is touched by others, then you'll have to order the changes anyway
3962022-01-20T19:25:51 <sipa> Right, but the risk is that we designate a specific timeframe for refactors... and then we get a torrent of refactors in that time that all conflict with each other.
3972022-01-20T19:26:50 <jeremyrubin> possibly. although it's not clear it's a bigger problem than as is v.s. just more apparent
3982022-01-20T19:27:10 <jeremyrubin> if we queue up the refactors and people discuss them before investing time maybe that can help mitigate it
3992022-01-20T19:27:39 <MarcoFalke> I'd also expect it will be harder to find reviewers if there is a time pressure/specific time slot
4002022-01-20T19:28:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: -b *!*@103.131.239.33
4012022-01-20T19:28:53 <jonatack> seems best to remain ad hoc about it (as it is currently)
4022022-01-20T19:29:31 <MarcoFalke> If you are worries about invensting time, you can also ask during the meeting if the concept makes sense (or in an issue)
4032022-01-20T19:29:48 <jeremyrubin> i guess so, it seems sad though because i think it does contribute to burn out and frustration.
4042022-01-20T19:30:02 <jeremyrubin> i dont spend time on refactors like this anymore afaik so not really concerned for me
4052022-01-20T19:30:06 <MarcoFalke> Generally writing code is trivial compared to reading and reviewing not so
4062022-01-20T19:30:12 <MarcoFalke> s/not so//g
4072022-01-20T19:30:59 <jeremyrubin> i think the main benefit is for people not working on these
4082022-01-20T19:31:27 <jeremyrubin> If i have a feature/improvement X and there is also a refactor Y in the pipe that would confilict does it makes sense for me to refactor/rebase X?
4092022-01-20T19:31:48 <jeremyrubin> If I knew that the cleanup work would not pre-empt, i might spend time more actively on X rather than speculating on Y
4102022-01-20T19:31:53 <jonatack> one can make the argument that adding process can contribute to dev frustration as well
4112022-01-20T19:32:49 <jeremyrubin> jonatack: good point, process ==bureaucracy, however, it also leads to getting a clear answer on when or how something can proceed
4122022-01-20T19:33:12 <sipa> I think most frustration is simply due to lack of review feedback. I don't think that designating times for certain kinds of changes will improve that (and it may even work the other way around... "I was told this was the time for this kind of change, and I *still* don't get feedback!?")
4132022-01-20T19:33:12 <jeremyrubin> i personally favor clear answers v.s. unclear ones
4142022-01-20T19:33:12 <MarcoFalke> If you think that X should go before Y (or the other way round), you should say so in a review comment
4152022-01-20T19:33:46 <_aj_> drahtbot already says that when it reports conflicting prs
4162022-01-20T19:34:09 <jeremyrubin> _aj_ afaict drahbot doesn't analyze for merge order, just for conflicts
4172022-01-20T19:34:17 <jeremyrubin> and it's buggy w.r.t. silent conflicts
4182022-01-20T19:34:19 <_aj_> jeremyrubin: no it tells you to figure out which one should go first
4192022-01-20T19:34:31 <jeremyrubin> (err unsolvable)
4202022-01-20T19:34:31 <MarcoFalke> Jup, it was the intention behind the comment to focus reviewers on one of the conflicts
4212022-01-20T19:35:02 <MarcoFalke> DrahtBot re-runs all CI every 9 days, so (some) silent conflicts are now detected
4222022-01-20T19:35:17 <laanwj> that's good!
4232022-01-20T19:35:22 <jeremyrubin> anyhow it sounds like most people are happy with the status quo on this stuff so it's not a hill i'd die on
4242022-01-20T19:35:29 <MarcoFalke> DrahtBot can't tell you which order to merge. This is up to the reviewers
4252022-01-20T19:36:15 <sipa> I wouldn't say I'm happy - the frustration you speak of, and the impact on contributors is certainly real. I however don't think your suggestion will improve it.
4262022-01-20T19:36:28 <MarcoFalke> I mean frustration is certainly real, but I think a "refactor window" is not a clear and trivial to solve that.
4272022-01-20T19:36:29 <lightlike> seems in practice it's more up to the maintainers - I rarely see discussions about merge order amongst reviewers
4282022-01-20T19:36:57 <laanwj> it would be an indication to the maintainers
4292022-01-20T19:37:03 <MarcoFalke> lightlike: It is implicit in where people put their ACKs
4302022-01-20T19:37:14 <jeremyrubin> sipa: fair, i'm not tied to any specific suggestion. is there something else you think might be an improvement?
4312022-01-20T19:37:33 <sipa> I'm afraid I don't have concrete suggestions.
4322022-01-20T19:37:44 <laanwj> it definitely happens that someone asks for something to be merged before/after another PR
4332022-01-20T19:38:03 <jeremyrubin> is this a harmful thing to try over e.g. 2 releases?
4342022-01-20T19:38:05 <laanwj> not often, but it's also not often necessary
4352022-01-20T19:38:25 <jeremyrubin> or do we feel confident the problems would exceed the benefit?
4362022-01-20T19:39:15 <jeremyrubin> i'm all for trying something if the status quo isn't happy and if it doesnt help trying something else
4372022-01-20T19:39:26 <laanwj> that kind of coordination tends to be pretty hard to do in this project tbh
4382022-01-20T19:40:09 <sipa> I think it's such a case-by-case thing that trying to institute a process for it isn't helpful.
4392022-01-20T19:40:23 <MarcoFalke> Jup, would be hard to announce that the next 12 days from today are the "refactor window" and explain what that even means in practice
4402022-01-20T19:41:42 <_aj_> are there any refactoring tools that make it easy to see "oh you're just changing from Foo* x and x->bar to Foo& x and x.bar" these days?
4412022-01-20T19:42:02 <jeremyrubin> scripted-diff?
4422022-01-20T19:42:04 <MarcoFalke> "--word-diff-regex=." ?
4432022-01-20T19:42:24 <_aj_> i mean syntax aware, rather than textual
4442022-01-20T19:42:26 <jeremyrubin> there's no tooling for AFAIU testing a scripted diff against all current reported conflicting branches
4452022-01-20T19:43:32 <MarcoFalke> _aj_: You can write one based on https://github.com/llvm-mirror/clang/blob/master/tools/clang-diff/ClangDiff.cpp ;)
4462022-01-20T19:43:34 <_aj_> syntax aware can see I'm changing Foo::bar to Foo::m_bar and see that Baz::bar is unrelated while scripted-diff generally can't eg
4472022-01-20T19:44:07 <laanwj> syntax/structure aware refactoring tools for c++ are really difficult to do, people have been trying for decades at least
4482022-01-20T19:44:42 <laanwj> i think clang has some tooling nowadays but it's eally fiddly
4492022-01-20T19:45:19 * MarcoFalke Let's use clang-refactor in a scripted-diff *hides
4502022-01-20T19:45:20 <laanwj> for easier to parse languages like java it's quite common
4512022-01-20T19:45:30 <laanwj> lol
4522022-01-20T19:46:08 <laanwj> any other topics?
4532022-01-20T19:46:20 <_aj_> MarcoFalke: yes, exactly! thanks!
4542022-01-20T19:46:55 <laanwj> #endmeeting
4552022-01-20T19:46:55 <core-meetingbot`> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
4562022-01-20T19:46:55 <core-meetingbot`> Meeting ended Thu Jan 20 19:46:54 2022 UTC.
4572022-01-20T19:46:55 <core-meetingbot`> Minutes: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-01-20-19.01.moin.txt
4582022-01-20T19:49:08 *** drnet <drnet!~drnet@178.197.235.244> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
4592022-01-20T19:50:02 <jonatack> i've found a good cure for wanting more process is to go into consulting or industry and work on a process/buzzword/ritual-heavy agile/scrum software project :)
4602022-01-20T19:51:19 *** sdfgsdfg <sdfgsdfg!~sdfgsdfg@user/sdfgsdfg> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4612022-01-20T19:52:10 <jeremyrubin> noted
4622022-01-20T19:52:25 <jeremyrubin> hey random question, how does https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/thread/call_once work?
4632022-01-20T19:52:48 <sipa> What do you mean by "how"?
4642022-01-20T19:52:55 <jeremyrubin> oh nvm
4652022-01-20T19:52:58 <jeremyrubin> i get it now
4662022-01-20T19:53:21 <jeremyrubin> i missed you have to pass in your own atomic flag
4672022-01-20T19:53:41 *** michagogo <michagogo!uid14316@user/michagogo> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
4682022-01-20T19:53:58 <jeremyrubin> but still, kinda curious how the flag works practically with exception handling mostly
4692022-01-20T19:54:31 <sipa> An `std::once_flag` could theoretically be simpler than an `std::atomic<bool>`, as it needs no means of going back from true to false.
4702022-01-20T19:54:49 <jeremyrubin> well in this case the call_once permits functions that throw
4712022-01-20T19:54:58 <jeremyrubin> and the others get 'queued up'
4722022-01-20T19:55:16 <jeremyrubin> and then released once the call finishes sucessfully
4732022-01-20T19:55:22 <jeremyrubin> and then all side effects can be seen
4742022-01-20T19:55:29 <jeremyrubin> byt the other callers
4752022-01-20T19:56:23 *** Guest21 <Guest21!~Guest21@dynamic-190-25-170-252.dynamic.etb.net.co> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
4762022-01-20T19:57:16 <sipa> It doesn't sound hard to implement that using a mutex and a condition variable.
4772022-01-20T19:57:40 <jeremyrubin> yeah but this is just using an atomic flag
4782022-01-20T19:57:42 <sipa> Though I suspect most platforms offer far more efficient ways of accomplishing that (pthreads has a primitive for it, I think).
4792022-01-20T19:57:50 <jeremyrubin> ah ok
4802022-01-20T19:58:16 <jeremyrubin> would it be totally wild to use this in rewriting some of the caching logic for CTV to be cache-on-first-use?
4812022-01-20T19:58:56 <sipa> I have no opinion on that.
4822022-01-20T19:59:48 <jeremyrubin> no concerns about using call_once at all from consensus/script interpreter code?
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5022022-01-20T21:18:35 <jeremyrubin> is there a convenient way to attach GDB from a functional test?
5032022-01-20T21:19:11 <jeremyrubin> i want to test the node, not the test
5042022-01-20T21:26:28 <achow101> jeremyrubin: you can pause the test with pdb, then attach gdb to the pid of the bitcoind you want to debug
5052022-01-20T21:26:47 <achow101> there's a doc somewhere describing how to do this
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5072022-01-20T21:30:55 <achow101> jeremyrubin: https://gist.github.com/fjahr/2cd23ad743a2ddfd4eed957274beca0f#debugging-from-functional-tests (substitute lldb with gdb, it should work)
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5102022-01-20T21:35:23 <jeremyrubin> yeah makes sense... maybe i will add a flag for it
5112022-01-20T21:35:57 <jeremyrubin> key word "convenient" :)
5122022-01-20T21:36:14 <jeremyrubin> maybe some shell aliases or smth
5132022-01-20T21:36:41 <achow101> you could probably shell alias it
5142022-01-20T21:36:56 <achow101> although that might be more difficult if the test has multiple nodes and you are trying to debug a specific one
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5162022-01-20T21:38:16 <cfields> jeremyrubin: there's also --wait_for_debugger
5172022-01-20T21:38:47 <cfields> Oh, whoops, functional. nm.
5182022-01-20T21:45:39 <jeremyrubin> problem chased down anyways... another victim to a =default constructor lol
5192022-01-20T21:46:34 <jeremyrubin> still may patch a way to have the node run in debugger of choice and drop to a console on fault
5202022-01-20T21:46:56 <jeremyrubin> is that something anyone else would like? test.py --with-debugger=lldb|gdb?
5212022-01-20T21:48:01 <sipa> That sounds useful. But how do you control which node gets debugged?
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5242022-01-20T21:58:09 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] thonkle opened pull request #24116: Document listening on port 0 assigns a random unused port (master...doc-port-0) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24116
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5282022-01-20T22:02:50 <jeremyrubin> sipa: whichever one crashes i guess...
5292022-01-20T22:02:55 <jeremyrubin> but good point
5302022-01-20T22:03:46 <sipa> Ah, it only attaches a debugger when a node crashes? That's also useful. And perhaps enough... just add an assert(false) in the codebase where you want to debug.
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5352022-01-20T22:16:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mzumsande opened pull request #24117: index: make indices robust against init aborts (master...202201_index_startup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24117
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5372022-01-20T22:19:35 <jeremyrubin> sipa: well you need to attach before it crashes I guess? but i spose it's not too bad to run test once, report which node *did* crash fail, and run again?
5382022-01-20T22:19:48 <jeremyrubin> (run again specifying to attach that one
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5402022-01-20T22:21:06 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Xekyo opened pull request #24118: Add 'sweep' RPC (master...sweep-wallet-rpc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24118
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5512022-01-20T23:10:54 <bitcoin-git> [gui] jonatack opened pull request #526: Add address relay/processed/rate-limited fields to peer details (master...add-addr-fields-to-peer-details) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/526
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5532022-01-20T23:10:58 <sugarpuff_> hi guys, I realize this question might not be considered "development" per se, but it is development related: right now the developers (y'all) are under legal attack by Craig Wright. Afaict, Wright is being used a new means of attack against Bitcoin. The last time I witnessed such a serious attack was BitcoinXT, except this time I think the threat is even greater.
5542022-01-20T23:11:00 <sugarpuff_> My question is: what are the bitcoin developers doing (other than trying to switch to pseudonymous development) to defend against this? I have seen gmaxwell repeatedly call Wright a fraud. If Maxwell actually believes this, then why is he avoiding the legal challenge? I think Bitcoin could lose if this sort of approach (of running away from Wright) continues.
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5672022-01-20T23:51:44 <prayank> sugarpuff_: 1. Legal issues are handled by people involved in different ways. Recently few organizations and individuals have tried to support the devs. 2. Greg Maxwell does not directly contribute to Bitcoin anymore as shared by him multiple times. He can respond to your questions on reddit as they are not related to Bitcoin Core. 3. Bitcoin is fine and CSW or any such scammers will not be able to do much. There was a tweet thread which clearl
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5712022-01-20T23:56:00 <michaelfolkson> sugarpuff_: For more details on a Bitcoin Legal Defense fund feel free to email the address contained in this https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019741.html
5722022-01-20T23:56:20 <michaelfolkson> "If you have questions or concerns, you can email info at bitcoindefensefund.org. Will share more information in the near future."
5732022-01-20T23:56:40 <michaelfolkson> Other than that don't think there's anything to discuss here
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