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252022-01-28T01:32:52 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] pg156 opened pull request #24183: test: use MiniWallet for mempool_updatefromblock.py (master...mempool-updatefromblock-miniwallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24183
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522022-01-28T03:19:04 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ZhiqingQu opened pull request #24184: Update init.cpp (master...susanBranch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24184
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692022-01-28T05:22:40 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] PastaPastaPasta opened pull request #24185: refactor: only use explicit reinterpret/const casts, not implicit (master...explicit-reinterpret-cast) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24185
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732022-01-28T05:53:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #24184: Update init.cpp (master...susanBranch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24184
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1152022-01-28T06:38:07 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/196b4599201d...a4f7c41271ed
1162022-01-28T06:38:07 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 446e73c fanquake: build: use macOS 11 SDK (Xcode 12.2)
1172022-01-28T06:38:07 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6fe5516 fanquake: contrib: support arm64 darwin in security checks
1182022-01-28T06:38:07 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ca47f2e fanquake: guix: use autoconf 2.71
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1212022-01-28T06:38:23 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #21851: release: support cross-compiling for arm64-apple-darwin (master...m1_support_depends) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21851
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1282022-01-28T07:32:25 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns opened pull request #24187: Followups for getdeploymentinfo (master...202201-getdepinfo-extra) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24187
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1362022-01-28T07:47:34 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 7 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a4f7c41271ed...d4e92d843650
1372022-01-28T07:47:34 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fd82613 Anthony Towns: rpc: move softfork info from getblockchaininfo to getdeploymentinfo
1382022-01-28T07:47:34 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7f15c18 Anthony Towns: rpc: getdeploymentinfo: allow specifying a blockhash other than tip
1392022-01-28T07:47:34 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a7469bc Anthony Towns: rpc: getdeploymentinfo: change stats to always refer to current period
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1422022-01-28T07:47:51 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #23508: Add getdeploymentinfo RPC (master...202111-getforkinfo) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23508
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1482022-01-28T08:10:28 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24189: refactor: [bdb] Make SafeDbt Span-like (master...2201-bdbSpan) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24189
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1552022-01-28T08:42:28 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #24189: refactor: [bdb] Make SafeDbt Span-like (master...2201-bdbSpan) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24189
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1632022-01-28T09:13:20 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors closed pull request #22016: rpc: add period_start to version bits statistics (master...2021/05/versionbits_period_start) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22016
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1672022-01-28T09:33:33 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24190: test: Fix sanitizer suppresions in streams_tests (master...2201-ts) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24190
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1862022-01-28T11:13:23 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24191: refactor: Make MessageBoxFlags enum underlying type unsigned (master...2201-nouiInt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24191
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1972022-01-28T11:52:48 <michaelfolkson> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic Taproot support in the wallet (open PRs, latest thinking)
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2012022-01-28T12:09:43 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24192: test: Fix feature_init intermittent issues (master...2201-testFI) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24192
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2052022-01-28T12:18:54 <stickies-v> Is this the right place to ask for a CI retrigger? If so, could someone please restart #24098 - the fuzzer timed out but it seems unrelated to the PR.
2062022-01-28T12:18:56 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24098 | rest: Use query parameters to control resource loading by stickies-v · Pull Request #24098 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2112022-01-28T13:02:33 <_aj_> seems like CI's a bit broken, both fuzzer timeouts and "AssertionError: Fee of 0.00003160 BTC too high! (Should be 0.00003130 BTC)" error?
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2202022-01-28T13:28:21 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24194: refactor: Use unsigned ignore() consistently (master...2201-streamIgnore) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24194
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2222022-01-28T13:32:36 <jonatack> _aj_: yes (i think MarcoFalke opened a fix for the fuzzer timeout, and i opened an issue for the fee too high one)
2232022-01-28T13:33:10 <jonatack> #24179
2242022-01-28T13:33:11 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24179 | fuzz: Speed up script fuzz target by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #24179 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2252022-01-28T13:33:53 <jonatack> and https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24151
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2272022-01-28T13:36:09 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #24194: refactor: Use unsigned ignore() consistently (master...2201-streamIgnore) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24194
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2362022-01-28T14:07:27 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack closed pull request #24106: policy: treat P2TR outputs with invalid x-only pubkey as non-standard (master...202201-policy-treat_p2tr_with_invalid_xpubkey_as_nonstandard) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24106
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2422022-01-28T14:18:54 <Guest41> ÐÑн
2432022-01-28T14:19:15 <Guest41> Hello
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2482022-01-28T14:27:57 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d4e92d843650...1245c62fef1d
2492022-01-28T14:27:57 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faa75fa MarcoFalke: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in bitcoin-tx
2502022-01-28T14:27:57 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1245c62 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24139: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in bitcoin-tx...
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2532022-01-28T14:28:12 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24139: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in bitcoin-tx (master...2201-utilTxOverflow) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24139
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2642022-01-28T14:57:01 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mzumsande opened pull request #24195: test: Fix failfast option for functional test runner (master...202201_testrunner_fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24195
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2712022-01-28T15:56:58 <sdaftuar> I'm seeing repeated ci timeouts in #20726, for the ci job "[fuzzer,address,undefined,integer, no depends]". i've tried re-running the job several times, but no luck -- each time it still times out. anyone have ideas about how to get this to complete?
2722022-01-28T15:57:03 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20726 | p2p: Add DISABLETX message for negotiating block-relay-only connections by sdaftuar · Pull Request #20726 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2732022-01-28T16:01:02 <lightlike> sdaftuar: There is #24179 which aims to fix the fuzzer timeouts (which appear all over the place).
2742022-01-28T16:01:03 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24179 | fuzz: Speed up script fuzz target by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #24179 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2762022-01-28T16:02:36 <sdaftuar> ah, thank you! perhaps i'll just wait for that pr to get merged, and then restart the job
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2802022-01-28T16:39:03 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24196: Fix integer sanitizer suppressions in validation.cpp (master...2201-valInt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24196
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2972022-01-28T18:12:49 <darosior> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic labels for ranged descriptors
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3182022-01-28T18:58:54 <michaelfolkson> Please do darosior's topic first achow101, I'm just catching up
3192022-01-28T19:00:36 <achow101> #startmeeting
3202022-01-28T19:00:37 <core-meetingbot`> Meeting started Fri Jan 28 19:00:36 2022 UTC. The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
3212022-01-28T19:00:37 <core-meetingbot`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
3222022-01-28T19:00:47 <achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos Murch nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik
3232022-01-28T19:00:47 <achow101> petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK sipa vasild
3242022-01-28T19:01:04 <michaelfolkson> hi
3252022-01-28T19:01:06 *** cryptapus <cryptapus!~cryptapus@user/cryptapus> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
3262022-01-28T19:01:15 <darosior> hi
3272022-01-28T19:01:32 *** cryptapus <cryptapus!~cryptapus@user/cryptapus> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3282022-01-28T19:01:42 <achow101> There's one pre-proposed meeting topic, any others people want to add?
3292022-01-28T19:01:48 <sipa> hi
3302022-01-28T19:01:55 <darosior> Hmm maybe i failed to add mine?
3312022-01-28T19:02:12 <michaelfolkson> [18:12:49] <darosior> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic labels for ranged descriptors
3322022-01-28T19:02:16 <achow101> oops, 2 pre-proposed topics
3332022-01-28T19:02:45 <achow101> #topic labels for ranged descriptors (darosior)
3342022-01-28T19:02:45 <core-meetingbot`> topic: labels for ranged descriptors (darosior)
3352022-01-28T19:02:48 *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:1c0a:deda:9648:d9a6> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3362022-01-28T19:02:49 <laanwj> hi
3372022-01-28T19:03:11 <darosior> So as part of the Miniscript work, i tested the branch against my application (which uses Miniscript internally and the descriptor wallet as watchonly to track 2 main descriptors) and discovered that labels are deactivated for range descriptors.
3382022-01-28T19:03:12 <darosior> However labels are pretty useful to differentiate the coins when you have multiple descriptors on the same watchonly wallet (which i think is the intent?). Typically for triage in the `listsinceblock` or `listunspent` results: i think i'm just an instance and they are useful as well.
3392022-01-28T19:03:12 <darosior> So i wondered what people here thought about enabling the same features to the descriptor level, to not have to add all addresses to the address book in advance (which i guessed is the reason to disable them for range descriptors in the first place?). Or if something else than labels was envisioned to enable the same features.
3402022-01-28T19:03:46 <darosior> s/and they are useful as well/ and they are useful as well to others/
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3422022-01-28T19:04:29 <achow101> the reason that labels were not implemented originally was because it seemed odd to me that someone would want to assign the same label to all addresses generated by a descriptor
3432022-01-28T19:04:32 <sipa> What are you thinking of, something like a label template on the descriptor, with say a %i in it that gets replaced by the index?
3442022-01-28T19:04:38 <sipa> Or just the same label for everything?
3452022-01-28T19:04:57 <achow101> and also I think there was some complexity with applying labels to addresses that did not exist yet
3462022-01-28T19:05:18 <darosior> The same label for any address derived for this descriptor. Something to say "this received coin is for this descriptor"
3472022-01-28T19:05:34 *** bomb-on <bomb-on!~bomb-on@194.144.47.113> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3482022-01-28T19:06:40 <achow101> if you think it's something people will use, go for it
3492022-01-28T19:06:54 <michaelfolkson> Sorry for the ELI5 but by label do you mean the subscripts of Miniscript?
3502022-01-28T19:07:07 <darosior> No i mean a metadata to identify a descriptor
3512022-01-28T19:07:28 <darosior> Could just add the descriptor itself to the result, i guess, although i'd to think how a client of the API would manage that
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3532022-01-28T19:07:41 <sipa> No, label, as in the setlabel RPC.
3542022-01-28T19:07:47 <sipa> and getaddressesbylabel
3552022-01-28T19:07:48 <michaelfolkson> Oh ok
3562022-01-28T19:08:21 <darosior> Ok, thanks. It was mainly to know if there were prior discussions on this topic. Guess i'm done :)
3572022-01-28T19:08:38 <achow101> I'm not sure I understand the use case, but I am ambivalent on this
3582022-01-28T19:09:01 <achow101> #topic Taproot support in the wallet (open PRs, latest thinking) (michaelfolkson)
3592022-01-28T19:09:02 <core-meetingbot`> topic: Taproot support in the wallet (open PRs, latest thinking) (michaelfolkson)
3602022-01-28T19:09:03 <sipa> Likewise.
3612022-01-28T19:09:05 <darosior> I can describe the motivation better in an issue, if that's helpful
3622022-01-28T19:09:20 <achow101> darosior: please do
3632022-01-28T19:09:49 <michaelfolkson> Ok.. so was just looking over the Taproot related PRs. #22558 is marked as high prio
3642022-01-28T19:10:20 *** bomb-on <bomb-on!~bomb-on@194.144.47.113> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
3652022-01-28T19:10:44 <michaelfolkson> This should be tested in tandem with #24043?
3662022-01-28T19:11:05 <achow101> they are orthogonal
3672022-01-28T19:11:06 <michaelfolkson> To do a Taproot multisig you need the Taproot multisig descriptor right?
3682022-01-28T19:11:26 <michaelfolkson> And that is only introduced in #24043
3692022-01-28T19:11:29 *** vysn <vysn!~vysn@user/vysn> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3702022-01-28T19:11:43 <achow101> #22558 is just for the basic taproot fields to actually be able to do any kind of watchonly taproot spend
3712022-01-28T19:12:14 <michaelfolkson> But to be passing around Taproot multisig PSBTs you need to have setup a Taproot multisig.... right?
3722022-01-28T19:12:31 <sipa> the multisig part is in 24043
3732022-01-28T19:12:31 <achow101> psbt is for more than just multisigs
3742022-01-28T19:12:38 <sipa> the taproot psbt part is in 22558
3752022-01-28T19:12:46 <sipa> if you want taproot multisig psbt, then you indeed need both
3762022-01-28T19:12:47 <achow101> #22558 is needed to work with HWI for example
3772022-01-28T19:12:55 <achow101> just to do a single key taproot spend
3782022-01-28T19:13:32 *** bomb-on <bomb-on!~bomb-on@194.144.47.113> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3792022-01-28T19:13:40 <michaelfolkson> Ah ok. So to test #24043 you should be doing a single key taproot spend
3802022-01-28T19:14:28 <michaelfolkson> And then to test Taproot multisig wait for #24043 or test in tandem with #24043
3812022-01-28T19:14:40 <achow101> too many 24043's in that sentence
3822022-01-28T19:14:51 <jonatack> hi
3832022-01-28T19:15:59 <michaelfolkson> I guess what I'm saying is to get #22558 merged test with a single key Taproot spend
3842022-01-28T19:16:44 <michaelfolkson> The alternative would be to make both #22558 and #24043 high prio
3852022-01-28T19:17:13 <michaelfolkson> Ok that makes sense (I think)
3862022-01-28T19:17:16 <achow101> yes, 22558 can be tested with single key spends
3872022-01-28T19:17:56 <michaelfolkson> So then moving to #24043
3882022-01-28T19:18:38 <michaelfolkson> This seems a stopgap to me (which is fine, just testing my understanding)
3892022-01-28T19:19:17 <michaelfolkson> But presumably longer term a Taproot enabled Miniscript would tell you which 2-of-3 arrangement is most efficient
3902022-01-28T19:19:45 <sipa> No, that information is implied by miniscript.
3912022-01-28T19:20:03 <sipa> If you have a miniscript/descriptor, the script is already decided.
3922022-01-28T19:20:23 <sipa> Which one is most efficient is trivial; the question is which one is applicable.
3932022-01-28T19:20:50 <sipa> Because using e.g. FROST threshold key as internal taproot key will always be the most efficient possible for any kind of multisig.
3942022-01-28T19:20:56 <michaelfolkson> So when you say "later replaced with Miniscript based implementation" what are you referring to?
3952022-01-28T19:21:48 <sipa> That's just an implementation aspect, not something observable.
3962022-01-28T19:21:50 <michaelfolkson> I see as a descriptor as a one to one mapping with script. But Miniscript is a one to many mapping to script depending on the subscripts
3972022-01-28T19:22:04 <sipa> What are subscripts?
3982022-01-28T19:22:17 <michaelfolkson> Like the _a etc
3992022-01-28T19:22:21 <sipa> No, miniscript is a 1-to-1 mapping with (a subset of) script.
4002022-01-28T19:22:35 <michaelfolkson> Sorry shouldn't say sub*script*, makes things complicated
4012022-01-28T19:23:01 <sipa> The functions in miniscript (e.g. "multi_a", "and_v", ...) we call "fragments". if you're looking for terminology.
4022022-01-28T19:23:42 <sipa> Let me try to explain what that sentence was about, unless someone has something else to discuss?
4032022-01-28T19:24:34 <sipa> achow101?
4042022-01-28T19:24:43 <michaelfolkson> There aren't any other topics
4052022-01-28T19:25:01 <achow101> I don't have any topics
4062022-01-28T19:25:19 <sipa> Ok, so, currently the bitcoin core codebase doesn't have miniscript implemented.
4072022-01-28T19:25:56 <sipa> Miniscript covers a bunch of different things, but it at least is sort of an extension of descriptors, as well as generic signing support for miniscript-compatible scripts, and a few other things.
4082022-01-28T19:26:40 <sipa> In the long term, with the miniscript codebase integrated into bitcoin core, a significant part of the logic around descriptors and signing can be handled by miniscript, which does lots of things generically.
4092022-01-28T19:26:56 <michaelfolkson> I'm thinking eventually you could almost ditch the term "descriptors" entirely. Everything would be Miniscript
4102022-01-28T19:27:17 <sipa> I very strongly hope it's the other way around.
4112022-01-28T19:27:24 <sipa> Miniscript is the name of research project, it's not something "visible".
4122022-01-28T19:27:39 <sipa> The part that is visible are what it enables in descriptors.
4132022-01-28T19:27:47 <michaelfolkson> Ok whatever, but it would all be one thing under one name
4142022-01-28T19:27:54 <sipa> Definitely.
4152022-01-28T19:28:34 <michaelfolkson> So this new multi_a descriptor would eventually be ditched right?
4162022-01-28T19:28:49 <sipa> No?
4172022-01-28T19:28:58 <sipa> In favor of what?
4182022-01-28T19:29:44 <michaelfolkson> A Miniscript equivalent that would give you the script for n-of-n which is optimal
4192022-01-28T19:30:15 <michaelfolkson> You say in the PR n-of-n isn't optimal, but k-of-n (k<n) is optimal
4202022-01-28T19:30:18 <sipa> Once we add support for a particular descriptor we cannot remove it, as it'd break wallets that have such a descriptor.
4212022-01-28T19:30:36 <sipa> michaelfolkson: Yes, and that miniscript equivalent would be called multi_a, which behaves exactly the same as the one we have now.
4222022-01-28T19:30:55 <sipa> Only it'd be done via the miniscript codebase, instead of a special-case inside the descriptor codebase.
4232022-01-28T19:31:05 <sipa> But as a user you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
4242022-01-28T19:31:30 <michaelfolkson> There would be multi_a for k-of-n and say a multi_b for n-of-n?
4252022-01-28T19:31:39 <sipa> For example, yes.
4262022-01-28T19:31:59 <michaelfolkson> Ok gotcha
4272022-01-28T19:32:21 <michaelfolkson> The wallet estimating witness size incorrectly will be addressed in follow up PR?
4282022-01-28T19:32:39 <sipa> Or perhaps and_v(v:pk(A),v:pk(B),...,pk(Z)).
4292022-01-28T19:33:04 <sipa> Which is more in line with how miniscript treats the optimal n-of-n script.
4302022-01-28T19:33:27 <sipa> Size estimation is a hard question, I don't really have a good solution.
4312022-01-28T19:33:43 <sipa> You can't in general predict which branch signers will be using.
4322022-01-28T19:34:04 <sipa> Perhaps something where you can pass to the fundraw* RPC which keys/signers are available.
4332022-01-28T19:34:13 <sipa> I think people have discussed something like that in the past.
4342022-01-28T19:34:29 <michaelfolkson> Doesn't Miniscript give you the most efficient option (and hence can estimate the witness sizes of the various spending paths)?
4352022-01-28T19:34:50 <michaelfolkson> Solved by Miniscript (if we can get that merged)
4362022-01-28T19:34:51 <sipa> No.
4372022-01-28T19:35:14 <sipa> Miniscript is just a way of writing scripts in a different way that allows more generic reasoning over them.
4382022-01-28T19:35:30 <sipa> You're talking about the miniscript policy compiler, which is one application of the things you can do with miniscript.
4392022-01-28T19:35:32 <Murch> hi
4402022-01-28T19:35:47 <sipa> But that's not something I'm expecting would be integrated into Bitcoin Core.
4412022-01-28T19:36:19 <sipa> It's not estimating witness sizes that's hard - miniscript can do that, as can our current codebase.
4422022-01-28T19:36:20 <michaelfolkson> Ok gotcha. You will be able to do that external to Core but Core won't have access to the compiler (necessarily)
4432022-01-28T19:36:31 <sipa> The difficulty is making the code know which keys are available, so it knows which branch to pick.
4442022-01-28T19:36:54 <sipa> That's just a logistic issue.
4452022-01-28T19:37:32 <michaelfolkson> Ok final question (thanks btw). I'm assuming all the build stuff that was done for Minisketch will need to be done for Miniscript?
4462022-01-28T19:38:11 <sipa> nope, nothing
4472022-01-28T19:38:17 <sipa> because miniscript isn't a separate library
4482022-01-28T19:38:27 <sipa> it'll just be merged into bitcoin core
4492022-01-28T19:39:12 *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:1c0a:deda:9648:d9a6> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4502022-01-28T19:39:13 <michaelfolkson> By separate library you just mean separate repo...?
4512022-01-28T19:39:30 <sipa> No.
4522022-01-28T19:39:49 <sipa> Minisketch is a library you build separately, with an API, you can build applications against, ...
4532022-01-28T19:40:05 <sipa> Miniscript is just a bunch of source files which are mostly intended to be integrated into Bitcoin Core.
4542022-01-28T19:40:33 <sipa> The future of the repository after that point is unclear; perhaps we keep it just for the compiler/website.
4552022-01-28T19:40:44 <michaelfolkson> There will be no Miniscript "API" or applications built using the Miniscript "library"?
4562022-01-28T19:40:44 <sipa> Perhaps people want to spend time on actually turning the miniscript codebase into a library that's independently usable, ...
4572022-01-28T19:41:00 <michaelfolkson> Oh ok you've answered that
4582022-01-28T19:41:04 <sipa> That's right. It needs Bitcoin Core right now.
4592022-01-28T19:41:18 <michaelfolkson> Ok thanks, all my questions
4602022-01-28T19:41:42 *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
4612022-01-28T19:42:09 <achow101> any other topics?
4622022-01-28T19:43:10 <achow101> #endmeeting
4632022-01-28T19:43:10 <core-meetingbot`> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
4642022-01-28T19:43:10 <core-meetingbot`> Meeting ended Fri Jan 28 19:43:10 2022 UTC.
4652022-01-28T19:43:10 <core-meetingbot`> Minutes: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-01-28-19.00.moin.txt
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4672022-01-28T19:44:54 <sipa> michaelfolkson: Not sure how clear that is, but what is shown/entered on my miniscript site (https://bitcoin.sipa.be/miniscript/) is two very different languages. They look similar which may make it confusing, but their purpose is completely different. One is the policy language, which is for writing "under what conditions should my output be spendable". The other is miniscript (which is a 1-to-1 mapping with Bitcoin Script, but a bit more readable). The
4682022-01-28T19:44:55 <sipa> policy compiler complies policy to miniscript, by finding out the most efficient miniscript way of doing what you want, specified by the policy.
4692022-01-28T19:46:56 <sipa> The thing that would be integrated into Bitcoin Core is the miniscript side of things, i.e., the output of the policy compiler if that's what you use to construct it.
4702022-01-28T19:47:26 *** ZeroMaster_ <ZeroMaster_!~webirc@95-42-105-42.ip.btc-net.bg> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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4722022-01-28T19:50:16 <michaelfolkson> sipa: Right, I knew this, I was forgetting all the clever, analysis stuff happens with the compiler between Policy and Miniscript
4732022-01-28T19:50:50 <michaelfolkson> And Core doesn't have access to it
4742022-01-28T19:52:04 <sipa> I mean, it could... but there is no need for it. E.g. we could have a bitcoin-miniscript-compiler tool, or a "compileminiscript" RPC. But I doubt we'll want to put all that functionality inside bitcoin core, as it can be done externally just as well.
4752022-01-28T19:52:23 <michaelfolkson> The new multi_a descriptor would be Taproot'd Miniscript and multi (Taproot'd Policy) would compile down to multi_a (Taproot'd Miniscript)
4762022-01-28T19:52:42 <sipa> Right.
4772022-01-28T19:52:58 <michaelfolkson> Or compile down to multi_b (Taproot'd Miniscript) if you were doing n-of-n
4782022-01-28T19:53:02 <sipa> Once we have a taproot-enabled miniscript definition and compiler for it.
4792022-01-28T19:55:17 <michaelfolkson> I think Luke said on the PR he didn't like the tag (_a) and could we avoid it. But Miniscript has a number of tags, it is normal from a Miniscript perspective
4802022-01-28T19:55:50 <sipa> Yeah, and it's understandable, because right now the _a is completely redundant.
4812022-01-28T19:56:17 <sipa> You can only use multi_a inside tr(), and you can only use multi outside tr().
4822022-01-28T19:56:48 <michaelfolkson> Tag or fragment? I'm not sure on terminology. The literal (_a) is a tag? And the segment of Miniscript would be a fragment?
4832022-01-28T19:56:55 <sipa> suffix
4842022-01-28T19:57:05 <sipa> the fragment is the whole name (multi_a)
4852022-01-28T19:57:16 <michaelfolkson> Ok
4862022-01-28T19:58:13 <sipa> The idea is that the suffces like _a and wrappers (like the "v:" prefix) don't modify the policy implemented by the script.
4872022-01-28T19:58:32 <sipa> So if you just want to get an idea of "what does this script allow", you just ignore them.
4882022-01-28T19:58:49 <sipa> But they are relevant for specifying the actual script opcodes, and possibly its efficiency.
4892022-01-28T20:02:38 <michaelfolkson> [19:52:04] <sipa> I mean, it could... but there is no need for it. E.g. we could have a bitcoin-miniscript-compiler tool, or a "compileminiscript" RPC. But I doubt we'll want to put all that functionality inside bitcoin core, as it can be done externally just as well.
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4912022-01-28T20:02:46 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #24197: Replace lock with thread safety annotation in CBlockTreeDB::LoadBlockIndexGuts() (master...replace-lock-with-annotation-in-LoadBlockIndexGuts) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24197
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4932022-01-28T20:03:06 <michaelfolkson> We can't assess the witness size for script path spends that would be a reason
4942022-01-28T20:03:24 <sipa> What? No, that's unrelated.
4952022-01-28T20:03:32 <sipa> Miniscript allows reasoning over witness sizes.
4962022-01-28T20:03:48 <sipa> The compiler uses that functionality to figure out the optimal script for a given policy.
4972022-01-28T20:04:17 <sipa> But you don't need the compiler to know the witness size for a miniscript.
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4992022-01-28T20:06:01 <sipa> The only thing you need to compiler for is constructing miniscripts in a somewhat more user-friendly way.
5002022-01-28T20:06:19 <sipa> doing things with the resulting miniscript doesn't need to compiler
5012022-01-28T20:07:46 <michaelfolkson> The compiler will tell you what Miniscript is most efficient based on the size of witnesses that need to be provided? Hence it has to be able to assess the witness size that will be needed to spend from that Miniscript?
5022022-01-28T20:08:08 <sipa> Yes.
5032022-01-28T20:08:27 <sipa> It uses the miniscript codebase to figure out which script is most efficient.
5042022-01-28T20:08:31 <michaelfolkson> So as a result the compiler could assess the witness size for a script path spend
5052022-01-28T20:08:46 <michaelfolkson> And solve the problem that I quoted you?
5062022-01-28T20:08:46 <sipa> But the logic for determining witness sizes is in miniscript itself - so it's available to whatever uses it.
5072022-01-28T20:09:03 <sipa> There is no problem to be solved.
5082022-01-28T20:09:18 <sipa> Our current codebase in bitcoin core can already compute witness sizes.
5092022-01-28T20:09:34 <sipa> Once we integrate miniscript, it can do that too for the new scripts supported by miniscript.
5102022-01-28T20:10:20 <sipa> The "problem" is just logistical... at signing time you may not know which signers are available, and that affects which satisfaction of a script is available.
5112022-01-28T20:11:01 <michaelfolkson> "Wallet code will for now estimate witness size incorrectly for script path spends" <- This is solved by merging Miniscript being merged into Core. It doesn't need access to the Policy -> Miniscript compiler to solve this problem
5122022-01-28T20:11:19 <sipa> No, that problem is completely unrelated.
5132022-01-28T20:11:32 <sipa> It's just because there is no way to tell the wallet which signers are available, for the third time.
5142022-01-28T20:11:45 <sipa> It's not that it can't compute it.
5152022-01-28T20:11:55 <sipa> It's that it doesn't know, because there is no way to tell it.
5162022-01-28T20:12:22 <michaelfolkson> Ok sorry, I'll read this over again
5172022-01-28T20:13:09 <sipa> Imagine you have an output that can be spent by either A and B signing, or by C signing.
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5192022-01-28T20:13:34 <sipa> If C is available, then a witness with 1 signature suffices.
5202022-01-28T20:13:35 <sipa> If A and B are available, then a witness with 2 signatures is needed.
5212022-01-28T20:14:09 <sipa> There is no way to tell fundrawtransaction etc which of these two options is going to be used, and no way to give it the information to infer it.
5222022-01-28T20:14:24 <sipa> So it always assumes that whatever is cheapest/smallest will be used.
5232022-01-28T20:14:36 <sipa> This problem is exacerbated by miniscript, but not unique to it.
5242022-01-28T20:16:40 <michaelfolkson> fundrawtransaction doesn't know which option isn't going to be used and neither does Policy, Miniscript or the compiler. But the compiler knows the witness size needed to spend from each option
5252022-01-28T20:17:14 <sipa> Yes, and so does Miniscript, and our codebase. If it knew what option was going to be used, it could compute the expected witness size.
5262022-01-28T20:17:27 <michaelfolkson> Hence fundrawtransaction would want to say to the compiler "Hey this option is being used. What's the witness size needed to spend from this option?"
5272022-01-28T20:17:29 <sipa> But it currently has no way of knowing.
5282022-01-28T20:17:42 <sipa> This has nothing to do with the compiler!
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5302022-01-28T20:17:49 <sipa> All this information can be inferred from the script itself.
5312022-01-28T20:18:33 <sipa> The compiler is for constructing scripts.
5322022-01-28T20:18:44 <sipa> If you already have a script, the compiler isn't relevant.
5332022-01-28T20:20:22 <michaelfolkson> Ok I think I get it, fundrawtransaction can easily know what the witness size to spend from an option is but it doesn't know which option will be used ahead of time
5342022-01-28T20:21:10 <michaelfolkson> Sorry :)
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5442022-01-28T20:43:20 <bitcoin-git> [gui] hebasto merged pull request #526: Add address relay/processed/rate-limited fields to peer details (master...add-addr-fields-to-peer-details) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/526
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5482022-01-28T20:43:41 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1245c62fef1d...5b4b8f76f3ae
5492022-01-28T20:43:41 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a465a66 Jon Atack: gui: add "Address Relay" (m_addr_relay_enabled) to peer details
5502022-01-28T20:43:41 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 19623d3 Jon Atack: gui: add "Addresses Processed" (m_addr_processed) to peer details
5512022-01-28T20:43:41 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6cd132d Jon Atack: gui: add "Addresses Rate-Limited" (m_addr_rate_limited) to peer details
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5672022-01-28T22:04:03 <mutatrum> Where do the drahtbot guix build end up? I want to test #24115 on a Raspberry.
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5702022-01-28T22:07:48 <sipa> It'll post the results when it's done.
5712022-01-28T22:07:48 <sipa> I don't know when it'll run.
5722022-01-28T22:08:08 <sipa> I have a build for you, if you want.
5732022-01-28T22:08:49 <sipa> (usual risks about trusting someone else's binaries apply, obviously)
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5762022-01-28T22:12:00 <mutatrum> Thanks, I'll wait. Pi is not running at the moment anyways.
5772022-01-28T22:12:33 <sipa> I can confirm that the binary does have SHA2 ARM instructions in it.
5782022-01-28T22:14:45 <mutatrum> Good! I ran IBD on the Rock Pi 4, took 48 hours to block 700.000. Now running master for comparison.
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5822022-01-28T22:18:46 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] brunoerg opened pull request #24198: wallet, rpc: add wtxid in WalletTxToJSON (master...2022-01-listtransactions-wtxid) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24198
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5862022-01-28T22:24:00 <mutatrum> 65 hours*
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