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302022-02-10T01:27:30 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kristapsk opened pull request #24307: RPC: Return external_signer in getwalletinfo (master...getwalletinfo-external_signer) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24307
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842022-02-10T07:14:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8c0f02c69d50...3dc0bb95520e
852022-02-10T07:14:49 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa2f7d0 MarcoFalke: fuzz: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in FormatParagraph
862022-02-10T07:14:49 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3dc0bb9 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24298: fuzz: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in Form...
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892022-02-10T07:15:05 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24298: fuzz: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in FormatParagraph (master...2202-fuzzIntU) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24298
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922022-02-10T07:16:07 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3dc0bb95520e...8796c2f5688d
932022-02-10T07:16:07 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa2807e MarcoFalke: test: Remove unused integer sanitizer suppressions
942022-02-10T07:16:07 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8796c2f fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24302: test: Remove unused integer sanitizer suppres...
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972022-02-10T07:16:23 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24302: test: Remove unused integer sanitizer suppressions (master...2202-testSanSupUnu) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24302
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1002022-02-10T07:18:01 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8796c2f5688d...243a9c39250d
1012022-02-10T07:18:01 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fac9fe5 MarcoFalke: Fix unintended unsigned integer overflow in strencodings
1022022-02-10T07:18:01 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 243a9c3 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24297: Fix unintended unsigned integer overflow in s...
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1052022-02-10T07:18:17 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24297: Fix unintended unsigned integer overflow in strencodings (master...2202-unInt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24297
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1122022-02-10T08:18:18 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24308: util: use stronger-guarantee rename method (master...20435_rebased) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24308
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1282022-02-10T09:01:40 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/243a9c39250d...a7e80449c081
1292022-02-10T09:01:40 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5cd15ff Sebastian Falbesoner: random: use arc4random on OpenBSD
1302022-02-10T09:01:40 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0c49e52 Sebastian Falbesoner: build: remove unneeded getentropy detection (HAVE_GETENTROPY)
1312022-02-10T09:01:40 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a7e8044 laanwj: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24238: random: use arc4random on OpenBSD
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1342022-02-10T09:01:58 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #24238: random: use arc4random on OpenBSD (master...202202-random-use_arc4random_on_OpenBSD) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24238
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1372022-02-10T09:04:37 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24309: test: test that OP_1-OP_16 (but not lower/higher) start witness programs (master...cherrypick_test_13062) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24309
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1422022-02-10T09:20:07 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #20435: util: use stronger-guarantee rename method (master...rename) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20435
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1922022-02-10T10:54:48 <fanquake> Looks like our ARM CI is failing for most jobs
1932022-02-10T10:57:37 <hebasto> fanquake: AWS issue?
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1952022-02-10T11:04:36 <michaelfolkson> More spam (Sagor2214) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24152#discussion_r803506080
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1972022-02-10T11:17:30 <michaelfolkson> Thanks
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2122022-02-10T12:09:28 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow opened pull request #24310: docs / fixups from RBF and packages (master...2022-02-fixups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24310
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2142022-02-10T12:09:29 <laanwj> i already considered blocking that one yesterday, they were doing some really strange things like concept ACKing from another repository, i thought it was a one-time test of some kind, but apparently it continues
2152022-02-10T12:09:58 <laanwj> either people are confused how to use github or it's something more insidious but i don't get it
2162022-02-10T12:12:26 <laanwj> something like, do longer-term github accounts that have some comment/repository history (at first glance) bring money to sell
2172022-02-10T12:12:38 <fanquake> yes I blocked them a little while ago
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2262022-02-10T13:31:36 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #24311: build: Fix Guix build for Windows (master...220210-guix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24311
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2512022-02-10T15:07:51 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #24311: build: Fix Guix build for Windows (master...220210-guix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24311
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2602022-02-10T15:58:55 <michaelfolkson> More spam :) taveechaimekwan https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24147#discussion_r803810543
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2622022-02-10T16:05:06 <michaelfolkson> Need Hashcash on GitHub
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2642022-02-10T16:08:17 <laanwj> also blocked
2652022-02-10T16:09:43 *** prayank <prayank!~Prayank@45.64.9.50> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
2662022-02-10T16:09:52 <prayank> I can write a banning algorithm that uses github API. It will only ban bad people because computers are always right.
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2692022-02-10T16:13:11 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24312: addrman: Log negative lowest_compatible (master...2202-logNeg) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24312
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2742022-02-10T16:22:53 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors opened pull request #24313: Improve display address handling for external signer (master...2022/02/displayaddress) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24313
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2762022-02-10T16:26:05 <michaelfolkson> prayank: Some proof of work would be nice. I don't think any of us want to discourage new contributors or opposing viewpoints but maintainers spending their time blocking spam doesn't seem like the best use of their time
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2792022-02-10T16:30:19 <prayank> michaelfolkson: It was sarcasm for some privacy wallets writing non sense that affect privacy of Bitcoin in general but nobody wants to talk about it. I understand your point and no disagreement.
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3042022-02-10T18:23:02 <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic Discontinue release notes wiki
3052022-02-10T18:26:15 *** Guyver2_ <Guyver2_!~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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3092022-02-10T18:30:11 <prayank> #proposedmeetingtopic what are the issues with payjoin not available in bitcoin core? Context: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/soesbt/will_payjoin_bip78_catch_on/
3102022-02-10T18:30:23 *** prayank <prayank!~Prayank@45.64.9.50> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
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3122022-02-10T18:32:57 <prayank> Sorry forgot the issue created by pastapastapasta: #19148
3132022-02-10T18:32:58 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19148 | Implement PayJoin / Pay-to-EndPoint · Issue #19148 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3142022-02-10T18:33:04 *** prayank <prayank!~Prayank@45.64.9.50> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
3152022-02-10T18:38:28 <michaelfolkson> prayank: I think that's a wallet meeting topic
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3192022-02-10T18:47:59 *** prayank <prayank!~Prayank@45.64.9.50> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3202022-02-10T18:48:46 <prayank> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic what are the issues with payjoin not available in bitcoin core? Context: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/soesbt/will_payjoin_bip78_catch_on/
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3302022-02-10T18:59:42 <laanwj> i also think it's not useful to discuss features if you're not planning to implement them
3312022-02-10T19:00:06 <provoostenator> Indeed, the wallet has a 100 person-year backlog already.
3322022-02-10T19:00:25 <MarcoFalke> The general answer to "Why is X not available in open source is: Because no one has implemented X"
3332022-02-10T19:00:32 *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3342022-02-10T19:00:33 <laanwj> exactly
3352022-02-10T19:01:06 <laanwj> #startmeeting
3362022-02-10T19:01:07 <core-meetingbot`> Meeting started Thu Feb 10 19:01:06 2022 UTC. The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
3372022-02-10T19:01:07 <core-meetingbot`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
3382022-02-10T19:01:18 <MarcoFalke> It's not always the answer, though. It could also be "because no one has reviewed X"
3392022-02-10T19:01:25 <laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball
3402022-02-10T19:01:27 <laanwj> morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
3412022-02-10T19:01:30 <achow101> hi
3422022-02-10T19:01:30 <MarcoFalke> hi
3432022-02-10T19:01:32 <b10c> hi
3442022-02-10T19:01:33 <larryruane> hi
3452022-02-10T19:01:35 <cfields> hi
3462022-02-10T19:01:42 <dongcarl> hi
3472022-02-10T19:01:42 <laanwj> sure, if there is an implementation the question could be 'why is it not being merged'
3482022-02-10T19:01:46 <fjahr> hi
3492022-02-10T19:01:52 <hebasto> hi
3502022-02-10T19:01:57 <fanquake> hi
3512022-02-10T19:02:04 <michaelfolkson> hi
3522022-02-10T19:02:11 *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3532022-02-10T19:02:39 <laanwj> two proposed meeting topics then: libbitcoinkernel initial discussion + Q&MaybeA (dongcarl), Discontinue release notes wiki (MarcoFalke)
3542022-02-10T19:02:43 <laanwj> any last minute ones?
3552022-02-10T19:03:10 <Kaizen_Kintsugi_> hi
3562022-02-10T19:03:49 <laanwj> the feature freeze is in 5 days, so i think instead of high priority for review, it might be more useful to review what has the 0.23 milestone and is a feature
3572022-02-10T19:04:00 <laanwj> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/52
3582022-02-10T19:04:08 <jonatack> hi
3592022-02-10T19:04:37 <laanwj> e.g. #24115
3602022-02-10T19:04:40 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24115 | ARMv8 SHA2 Intrinsics by prusnak · Pull Request #24115 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3612022-02-10T19:05:05 <laanwj> and #24187
3622022-02-10T19:05:07 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24187 | Followups for getdeploymentinfo by ajtowns · Pull Request #24187 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3632022-02-10T19:05:38 <laanwj> i'm not sure about #19602 last minute to be honest
3642022-02-10T19:05:42 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19602 | wallet: Migrate legacy wallets to descriptor wallets by achow101 · Pull Request #19602 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3652022-02-10T19:05:48 <MarcoFalke> Yeah, could remove that
3662022-02-10T19:05:57 <laanwj> might be better to (if it is ready) merge it early in 24.0 merge window
3672022-02-10T19:05:59 <MarcoFalke> Maybe was a bit too optimistic back when I tagged it
3682022-02-10T19:06:02 <achow101> It would be a bit last minute to merge that
3692022-02-10T19:06:09 <laanwj> yes, bumped it
3702022-02-10T19:06:23 <achow101> unfortunately it has not gotten much review
3712022-02-10T19:06:29 <MarcoFalke> Don't think it had any in-depth review at all yet?
3722022-02-10T19:07:03 <laanwj> it's one that needs a lot of review and testing, with different wallets
3732022-02-10T19:08:19 <laanwj> at least it adds a RPC to do the migration manually; it doesn't do it automatically, now that would be risky
3742022-02-10T19:08:37 *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:fd49:eb7b:9a3e:b722> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
3752022-02-10T19:08:50 <laanwj> #15774 doesn't seem realistic for 23.0?
3762022-02-10T19:08:52 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15774 | macOS App Notarization · Issue #15774 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3772022-02-10T19:09:31 <laanwj> don't actually know what it's involved, would it need a PR?
3782022-02-10T19:09:35 <MarcoFalke> fanquake promised somewhere that it will be fixed for 23.0 ;)
3792022-02-10T19:09:39 <laanwj> ok
3802022-02-10T19:09:44 <laanwj> will ask him personally then
3812022-02-10T19:09:51 <MarcoFalke> fanquake: ^
3822022-02-10T19:10:00 <MarcoFalke> He might be present
3832022-02-10T19:10:03 <fanquake> it will be fixed
3842022-02-10T19:10:28 <laanwj> i don't think we have any other features tagged 23.0?
3852022-02-10T19:10:34 <laanwj> fanquake: awesome!
3862022-02-10T19:11:18 *** vysn <vysn!~vysn@user/vysn> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3872022-02-10T19:11:57 <laanwj> is there anything not tagged that might be realistic to make the feature freeze?
3882022-02-10T19:12:25 <jonatack> not a feature so apologies if irrelevant, but #20196 seems to be a bugfix that has been around since Oct 2020, has seen quite a bit of review, and had acks by sipa and myself
3892022-02-10T19:12:28 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20196 | net: fix GetListenPort() to derive the proper port by vasild · Pull Request #20196 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3902022-02-10T19:12:44 <jonatack> (needs rebase though)
3912022-02-10T19:13:06 <laanwj> ok tagged
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3932022-02-10T19:14:15 <hebasto> in gui repo only a bugfix is tagged for 23.0
3942022-02-10T19:14:27 <laanwj> hebasto: thanks for checking
3952022-02-10T19:15:54 <laanwj> ok, that concludes this topic i guess, feel free to ping me outside the meeting if any feature is ready for merge before the feature freeze
3962022-02-10T19:16:01 <laanwj> #topic libbitcoinkernel initial discussion + Q&MaybeA (dongcarl)
3972022-02-10T19:16:02 <core-meetingbot`> topic: libbitcoinkernel initial discussion + Q&MaybeA (dongcarl)
3982022-02-10T19:16:10 <dongcarl> Hi all, Iâve been working libbitcoinkernel: on a plan to extract our consensus engine. Iâve written enough code to see that it can work, and Iâd like to share it with you all!
3992022-02-10T19:16:18 <dongcarl> Here is the umbrella issue: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24303
4002022-02-10T19:16:19 <dongcarl> Here is the first PR: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24304
4012022-02-10T19:16:22 <laanwj> woohoo!!!
4022022-02-10T19:16:24 <provoostenator> Cool!
4032022-02-10T19:16:28 <dongcarl> Iâve written up quite a lot between the issue and the PR description and the commit messages, and Iâm happy to answer questions and discuss! (Sorry jeremyrubin I just saw your response from yesterday, will reply)
4042022-02-10T19:16:33 <jonatack> nice
4052022-02-10T19:16:49 <dongcarl> :D
4062022-02-10T19:17:12 <laanwj> glad to hear you're making progress there
4072022-02-10T19:17:23 <laanwj> #24303 #24304
4082022-02-10T19:17:24 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24303 | The `libbitcoinkernel` Project · Issue #24303 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4092022-02-10T19:17:24 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24304 | [kernel 0/n] Introduce `bitcoin-chainstate` and `libbitcoinkernel` by dongcarl · Pull Request #24304 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4102022-02-10T19:18:00 <laanwj> and that your conclusion was that it can actually work, not unimportant
4112022-02-10T19:18:08 <dongcarl> Yeah I think I had to do some exploring at first, but I think the MVP (stage 1) turned out to be less work than I thought!
4122022-02-10T19:19:04 <laanwj> great! we've come a long way with modularization and untangling things that should help
4132022-02-10T19:19:31 <dongcarl> I think there will be some idiosyncrasies in how the API/library works, but I think it is a big win to get the decoupling work done, and we can make the library/API ergonomic at any time
4142022-02-10T19:20:03 <laanwj> absolutely
4152022-02-10T19:20:14 <dongcarl> One key insight here is that after we decouple, any re-coupling results in a linker/compiler failure
4162022-02-10T19:20:27 <dongcarl> So it's good to get the decoupling through first, since that's a big win
4172022-02-10T19:20:47 <michaelfolkson> Why was a new approach required from libbitcoinconsensus? Or is this building on top of the work done in libbitcoinconsensus?
4182022-02-10T19:21:11 <michaelfolkson> I know you say "it is a stateful library that can spawn threads, do caching, do I/O, and many other things which one may not normally expect from a library." Sounds like libbitcoinconsensus couldn't do that
4192022-02-10T19:21:12 <laanwj> basically because it's stateful
4202022-02-10T19:21:19 <laanwj> yes
4212022-02-10T19:21:44 <dongcarl> michaelfolkson: libbitcoinconsensus also only does scipt verification last time I checked
4222022-02-10T19:21:58 <dongcarl> No block or UTXO management logic
4232022-02-10T19:22:21 <jonatack> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/f9a8a6e88e0ed1c63f927346339b640f/pasted.txt
4242022-02-10T19:22:22 <cfields> +100 for libbitcoinconsensus. I've been hacking on carl's branches a bit, and some single-use tools quickly emerged. It's VERY cool.
4252022-02-10T19:22:46 <jonatack> michaelfolkson: if I may, just posted a file with notes I took on this
4262022-02-10T19:22:49 <cfields> er, libbitcoinkernel. sorry :)
4272022-02-10T19:23:07 <michaelfolkson> So libbitcoinconsensus was like a first attempt and this is now a second attempt learning lessons from libbitcoinconsensus?
4282022-02-10T19:23:14 <michaelfolkson> jonatack: Thanks!
4292022-02-10T19:23:22 <dongcarl> Hehe yeah cfields built a cool bitcoin-reindex tool with it!
4302022-02-10T19:24:05 <cfields> michaelfolkson: bitcoinconsensus was very limited and not all that useful with what it can do realistically. libbitcoinkernel is more like a minimized version of a core node impl with no useful interfaces baked in.
4312022-02-10T19:24:12 <jonatack> michaelfolkson: (those were comments on IRC here by laanwj)
4322022-02-10T19:24:39 <michaelfolkson> Ok cool
4332022-02-10T19:24:45 <dongcarl> :-)
4342022-02-10T19:25:07 <dongcarl> BTW, I'm actively looking for people to take on Stage 2 as mentioned here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24303
4352022-02-10T19:25:28 *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:fd49:eb7b:9a3e:b722> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4362022-02-10T19:25:37 <dongcarl> If anyone thinks they're even remotely suited to the task, lmk!
4372022-02-10T19:26:22 <provoostenator> dongcarl: how does this jibe with ryanofsky's multiprocess stuff?
4382022-02-10T19:26:36 <laanwj> maybe someone can do a rust binding :-)
4392022-02-10T19:26:40 <provoostenator> I guess this just takes a chunck out of what was already contained in the node?
4402022-02-10T19:27:25 <laanwj> multiprocess is about running multiple processes, this is about splitting the code, it's related but not the same
4412022-02-10T19:27:57 <provoostenator> Right, but if both involve splitting code
4422022-02-10T19:28:23 <provoostenator> E.g. we got rid of all these globals and now have interfaces.
4432022-02-10T19:28:26 <dongcarl> Right, I think in practice libbitcoinkernel will probably be a subset of bitcoin-node (is that the right binary?), as in bitcoin-node can link against libbitcoinkernel (not proposing that we do this yet)
4442022-02-10T19:28:29 <laanwj> it could help multiprocess
4452022-02-10T19:28:35 <larryruane> would libbitcoinkernel be a separate repo?
4462022-02-10T19:28:45 <laanwj> larryruane: n-no plans like that for the forseaable future
4472022-02-10T19:28:47 <MarcoFalke> I'd say it shouldn't affect multiprocess, as libbitcoinkernel will be wrapped in the "Node" (from the view of multiprocess interfaces)
4482022-02-10T19:29:31 <dongcarl> Yeah right now I have a src/kernel/ directory where I keep libbitcoinkernel specific stuff. No plans yet of repo separation
4492022-02-10T19:29:49 *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:fd49:eb7b:9a3e:b722> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4502022-02-10T19:30:04 <dongcarl> Great questions btw :-)
4512022-02-10T19:31:07 <MarcoFalke> so validation.cpp would eventually move to src/kernel/validation.cpp ?
4522022-02-10T19:31:26 <laanwj> the actual validation parts, i suppose
4532022-02-10T19:32:05 <dongcarl> Exactly right. The parts of src/validation.cpp that we absolutely require for the consensus engine would be moved to src/kernel/validation.cpp
4542022-02-10T19:32:17 <dongcarl> The rest can stay in src/validation.cpp
4552022-02-10T19:32:45 <lightlike> isn't it more the other way round, that the index rework of #24230 helps for this project too? If the indexes could run as their own process, doesnt this mean that they are also out of libbitcoinkernel?
4562022-02-10T19:32:47 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24230 | indexes: Stop using node internal types and locking cs_main, improve sync logic by ryanofsky · Pull Request #24230 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4572022-02-10T19:32:49 <laanwj> or renamed to something else if there's a better match for the remaining functionality
4582022-02-10T19:34:00 <cfields> I think it's useful to look at the file list to get an idea of how carl's working: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24304/files#diff-4cb884d03ebb901069e4ee5de5d02538c40dd9b39919c615d8eaa9d364bbbd77R832
4592022-02-10T19:34:23 <cfields> dongcarl: if I'm not mistaken, you started by globbing everything into there, then move things out piece-by-piece.
4602022-02-10T19:34:26 <dongcarl> lightlike: So in my "vision quest" branches, I've found that if we merge the prune blocker PR, then we can drop the blockfilterindex, and then we can rearchitect GetUTXOStats to not unconditionally depend on the coinstatsindex, then we don't have any indices in libbitcoinkernel
4612022-02-10T19:34:45 <laanwj> huh nice
4622022-02-10T19:35:26 <dongcarl> Yes! It's actually quite satisfying to see every bulk of change culminate in the removal of a .cpp file in the _SOURCES list :-)
4632022-02-10T19:36:24 <cfields> there are obviously some things that don't belong in that list, but are currently pulled in by something. those are basically the TODOs. util/asmap.cpp as a good example, should be moved out, but that presumably requires some refactoring first.
4642022-02-10T19:36:43 <laanwj> asmap seems decidedly P2P related
4652022-02-10T19:36:58 <cfields> right
4662022-02-10T19:37:23 <laanwj> it might be useful as an external library for some P2P purposes in itself, but that's a whole other topic :)
4672022-02-10T19:37:28 <provoostenator> p2p is not considered kernel I guess
4682022-02-10T19:37:39 <laanwj> right
4692022-02-10T19:38:12 <dongcarl> Nope P2P is not considered part of the kernel
4702022-02-10T19:38:27 <dongcarl> However, for stage 1, we are including the mempool
4712022-02-10T19:38:38 <MarcoFalke> Would it be possible to link libbitcoinkernel into bitcoind from the beginning (in #24230)?
4722022-02-10T19:38:40 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24230 | indexes: Stop using node internal types and locking cs_main, improve sync logic by ryanofsky · Pull Request #24230 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4732022-02-10T19:38:52 <MarcoFalke> sorry, 24303
4742022-02-10T19:39:37 <MarcoFalke> This means that the SOURCES can be removed from libbitcoin_node?
4752022-02-10T19:39:57 <MarcoFalke> (Maybe I should leave this as a code review comment)
4762022-02-10T19:40:09 <dongcarl> I explored doing that, and there's no clear hierarchy between our internal .a libs and libbitcoinkernel
4772022-02-10T19:40:18 <lightlike> for asmap, there is jnewbery's #22910 which, as a side-effect, might result in being able to remove the dependency
4782022-02-10T19:40:20 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22910 | net: Encapsulate asmap in NetGroupManager by jnewbery · Pull Request #22910 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4792022-02-10T19:40:54 <dongcarl> MarcoFalke: But I think that's a great idea worth exploring later on when we've decoupled more things!
4802022-02-10T19:41:07 <cfields> lightlike: aha, +1. sounds like that's very possible.
4812022-02-10T19:41:33 <dongcarl> Oh I think I had an easier fix for asmap in my branches :-)
4822022-02-10T19:42:11 <dongcarl> I think overall, we should also make some developer notes on how to code in a way that doesn't introduce too many dependencies/coupling
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4842022-02-10T19:42:55 <dongcarl> Anyway, that's probably a topic for another day
4852022-02-10T19:42:59 <MarcoFalke> Couldn't the hirarchy issue be solved by linking libbitcoinkernel in between every .a lib?
4862022-02-10T19:43:26 <laanwj> we have another (probably short) topic to go, might want to wrap up
4872022-02-10T19:43:51 <dongcarl> MarcoFalke: I think the brute-force way is just to add it to the top of LDADD for all binaries, but that doesn't seem "right" to me
4882022-02-10T19:44:01 <dongcarl> I'm all done! We can move on
4892022-02-10T19:44:05 <dongcarl> Thanks all
4902022-02-10T19:44:28 <laanwj> thank you
4912022-02-10T19:44:47 <laanwj> #topic Discontinue release notes wiki (MarcoFalke)
4922022-02-10T19:44:47 <core-meetingbot`> topic: Discontinue release notes wiki (MarcoFalke)
4932022-02-10T19:44:49 <provoostenator> So this bitcoin-chainstate binary won't actually do anything right?
4942022-02-10T19:44:56 <provoostenator> It just makes sure we don't break the build.
4952022-02-10T19:44:56 <MarcoFalke> Yeah, so we introduced the wiki back when no release notes were written in pull requests. They were written before a release. Obviously that approach isn't sustainable, and we switched to writing release notes when the code was written.
4962022-02-10T19:45:08 <MarcoFalke> So I am thinking if we still need the wiki
4972022-02-10T19:45:20 <laanwj> there's still organization + editing work left
4982022-02-10T19:45:22 <achow101> We still use the wiki for finishing up release notes during the RC process
4992022-02-10T19:45:23 <dongcarl> provoostenator: I'll answer after this topic
5002022-02-10T19:45:28 <MarcoFalke> IIRC last time there were only a few minor typo fixes and other minor edits
5012022-02-10T19:45:39 <laanwj> we definitely dont' want a PR for every little typo fix
5022022-02-10T19:45:40 <jonatack> Quite a bit of editing happens in the wiki, I did a fair amount
5032022-02-10T19:45:57 <MarcoFalke> My thinking is that edits will need review either way
5042022-02-10T19:46:27 <laanwj> yes
5052022-02-10T19:46:31 <provoostenator> But maybe a wiki is more suitable for just letting people change things, check the history, and revert if needed?
5062022-02-10T19:46:34 <laanwj> but that's possible to do post-hoc for documentation
5072022-02-10T19:46:50 <laanwj> i do think a wiki is a better fit in general for documents than PRs
5082022-02-10T19:46:56 <laanwj> yes
5092022-02-10T19:47:02 <jonatack> Some was rewriting/fixups, and some was moving similar notes together / reorganizing IIRC
5102022-02-10T19:47:18 <laanwj> also the wiki can only be edited by organization members, so we don't really have to be afraid of vandalism
5112022-02-10T19:47:40 <prayank> laanwj: agree and had shared this a few months back
5122022-02-10T19:48:07 <prayank> agree with: i do think a wiki is a better fit in general for documents than PRs
5132022-02-10T19:48:09 <laanwj> in any case i don't see a strong reason to move away from the wiki approach, at least for major releases
5142022-02-10T19:48:22 <MarcoFalke> ok
5152022-02-10T19:48:55 <laanwj> so it's not so much about writing the release notes (though some need to be written) but more about combining, ordering, and the final touches
5162022-02-10T19:49:14 <laanwj> it's really inconvenient to do that cooperatively in PRs
5172022-02-10T19:49:52 <MarcoFalke> Ideally, we'd do all of that over the year and not last minute
5182022-02-10T19:50:06 <laanwj> some stuff always needs to be done last minute
5192022-02-10T19:50:16 <laanwj> but yes, doing more in sync with the code is of course better
5202022-02-10T19:50:17 <prayank> engineers
5212022-02-10T19:51:01 <MarcoFalke> At least I've been trying to do that (#24068, ...)
5222022-02-10T19:51:03 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24068 | doc: Rework 14707 release notes by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #24068 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5232022-02-10T19:51:20 <laanwj> good!
5242022-02-10T19:52:13 <laanwj> any other topics?
5252022-02-10T19:54:20 <jonatack> Subjecting release note edits to the review process seems daunting (to me :D)
5262022-02-10T19:54:46 <michaelfolkson> +1
5272022-02-10T19:55:11 <laanwj> i mean what could work is to have a separate repo with higher throughput than the usualy review process, and doesn't mind the noise, but that's effectively a wiki then
5282022-02-10T19:55:50 <MarcoFalke> It doesn't need to be a separate repo. If someone fixes a typo in the release notes, the pull can be merged by the first maintainer that sees it
5292022-02-10T19:56:00 <laanwj> also: i can't stress this enough please don't write too many release notes, it's not documentation, only a list of changes, it can refer to the actual documentation
5302022-02-10T19:56:16 <laanwj> i don't like how much spam that implies
5312022-02-10T19:56:17 <MarcoFalke> It is not like we need 37 ACKs and wait a week to fix a typo
5322022-02-10T19:56:31 <laanwj> i really dislike PRs that just fix a typo
5332022-02-10T19:56:32 <MarcoFalke> ok, that's a good point
5342022-02-10T19:56:58 <laanwj> definitely not going to merge them faster :)
5352022-02-10T19:57:18 <MarcoFalke> I am mostly worried about a last-minute rewrite of the release notes in the wiki (that introduce errors), but no one notices until after release
5362022-02-10T19:57:29 <laanwj> well, watch the changes then
5372022-02-10T19:57:49 <MarcoFalke> I mean "last-minute"
5382022-02-10T19:57:53 <laanwj> i'm not particularly afraid of that tbh
5392022-02-10T19:58:02 <MarcoFalke> ok
5402022-02-10T19:58:13 <MarcoFalke> Heh, let's end the meeting
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5422022-02-10T19:58:30 <laanwj> people in the org don't usually do stupid stuff, but sure, it's good to pay attention, especially before merging them back to the branch
5432022-02-10T19:58:38 <warren> Would it be harmful to point at a webpage for the latest release notes instead of being part of the distribution?
5442022-02-10T19:59:05 <laanwj> i think having them (eventually) part of the distribution is fine
5452022-02-10T19:59:31 <provoostenator> And having the full archive of release notes in the source code is useful too.
5462022-02-10T19:59:39 <laanwj> webpages tend to disappear etc
5472022-02-10T20:01:05 <laanwj> i mean who knows we'll lose the lawsuit and bitcoincore.org disappears :p just kidding i guess but good to keep things self-contained
5482022-02-10T20:01:42 <laanwj> #endmeeting
5492022-02-10T20:01:42 <core-meetingbot`> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
5502022-02-10T20:01:42 <core-meetingbot`> Meeting ended Thu Feb 10 20:01:42 2022 UTC.
5512022-02-10T20:01:42 <core-meetingbot`> Minutes: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-02-10-19.01.moin.txt
5522022-02-10T20:01:48 <Kaizen_Kintsugi_> If no one else has anything, I was in chaincode recently, and signature aggregation got brought up for optimizing a block. I'm wondering if anyone could elaborate. I assume this would be to speed up transaction validation. Does it allow more data to be packed into a block?
5532022-02-10T20:02:04 <Kaizen_Kintsugi_> It was in relation to taproot
5542022-02-10T20:02:11 <dongcarl> provoostenator: bitcoin-chainstate does do something! It will print out information about a datadir and wait for new blocks (encoded in hex) to process on stdin. I found it pretty cool to start it and start feeding it block 1, 2, 3, and see it work :-)
5552022-02-10T20:02:19 <dongcarl> provoostenator: E.g. ./src/bitcoin-chainstate ./test-datadir (This is a draft PR please donât use it on your actual datadir).
5562022-02-10T20:02:44 <provoostenator> dongcarl: ah that's very cool, I might play with that
5572022-02-10T20:03:14 <laanwj> fwiw for RCs i do link to the wiki for the preliminary release notes, for -final it gets merged back into the branch, after that the wiki is emptied and changed to a link to the release notes on the master
5582022-02-10T20:04:51 <prayank> Responding to the things I checked later when meeting was going and they were shared just before meeting:
5592022-02-10T20:04:55 <prayank> laanwj: I can review. I dont think Its always the case that person who implements would want to discuss it in the meeting (open source). One example was: UTXO locks saved in db. provoostenator: With this logic it would be impossible to discuss anything in wallet meeting (backlog). MarcoFalke: I think I had this idea already so suggested someone to create a bounty for it in the reddit thread shared but not sure about real issues
5602022-02-10T20:04:55 <prayank> . There are lot of things that you assume, create a pr and one of the maintainers comment: this has xyz problem so always better to discuss before wasting your own time or requesting others to confirm in meeting.
5612022-02-10T20:05:51 <laanwj> prayank: if you simply have questions, you can ask any time, either on github (apparently a issue already exists), no need to reserve time for it in the meeting
5622022-02-10T20:06:23 <laanwj> (or here, but for longer ongoing discussion github is better)
5632022-02-10T20:06:32 <prayank> laanwj: this is not a simple question and already has a github issue with no activity
5642022-02-10T20:06:59 <MarcoFalke> prayank: Yeah, that means that maybe no one has looked at the BIP in-depth yet?
5652022-02-10T20:07:08 <prayank> Maybe
5662022-02-10T20:07:24 <laanwj> if there's no activity there's probably no developer interest
5672022-02-10T20:07:39 <michaelfolkson> Kaizen_Kintsugi_: Perhaps #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews is better channel for these types of general questions. But with Schnorr we can do key aggregation schemes (e.g. MuSig2) but not signature aggregation across say inputs
5682022-02-10T20:08:23 <michaelfolkson> Kaizen_Kintsugi_: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/106163/what-is-the-difference-between-key-aggregation-and-signature-aggregation
5692022-02-10T20:08:50 <prayank> laanwj: I have followed your comments since last few years and you are one of the devs who is always for-privacy and even in coin control disccusions i could see it. Why do you think it never made it to core?
5702022-02-10T20:09:27 <provoostenator> prayank: a good place to start is probably to write a Python script that implements PayJoin using RPC calls.
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5732022-02-10T20:10:53 <belcher> payjoin requires a http server with ssl, is that appropriate for core? maybe im biased since i dont use core's gui myself, only bitcoind
5742022-02-10T20:11:02 <laanwj> no one with expertise in bitcoin privacy methods works on bitcoin core, they all decided to make their own projects
5752022-02-10T20:11:11 <belcher> payjoin is already implemented in btcpayserver, but from what i see its not very common for merchants to turn it on
5762022-02-10T20:11:12 <prayank> provoostenator: that looks like discussing solutions. thanks. I will try it.
5772022-02-10T20:11:30 <provoostenator> prayank: it could be a dead end, but it could also evolve to become it's own project
5782022-02-10T20:11:45 <provoostenator> Proojects like Specter and Wasabi now end up using Bitcoin Core in the background.
5792022-02-10T20:11:47 <belcher> i agree with provoostenator's suggestion, it shouldnt be too hard as python already has a bunch of libs for http servers/ssl
5802022-02-10T20:11:52 <laanwj> belcher: yeah, it's hard to do within bitcoin core's architecture, it's very much a stand-alone wallet, fitting in any kind of coordination between wallets is going to be very difficult
5812022-02-10T20:12:39 <belcher> the way joinmarket does it (it can receive as well as send payjoins) is by using tor's control port to create a one time hidden service that the other side can connect to to coordinate the payjoin
5822022-02-10T20:12:42 <provoostenator> And I and others are _very_ slowly trying to chip away at some of Specter's magic to get multisig hardware wallet support directly in Core :-)
5832022-02-10T20:12:43 <prayank> belcher: is it possible without sever? using ln or someting like nostr?
5842022-02-10T20:13:25 <provoostenator> A server is trivial to build in Python. Not necessarily a secure one, but good enough for proof-of-concept and demos.
5852022-02-10T20:13:31 <belcher> prayank bip78 says it uses http
5862022-02-10T20:13:49 <belcher> note that in python you can just do "import http.server" or whatever the lib is, its easy
5872022-02-10T20:13:50 <prayank> provoostenator: Wasabi has no background with core to use it and its non sense if they dont allow coin control in ww2
5882022-02-10T20:14:36 <provoostenator> prayank: https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/using-wasabi/BitcoinFullNode.html#how-does-wasabi-use-your-bitcoin-full-node
5892022-02-10T20:15:12 <belcher> i just realized, _sending_ to payjoin invoices is much easier to implement than receiving
5902022-02-10T20:15:23 <prayank> provoostenator: I work for wasabi since a few months. it can be used without full node. you can use it with full node but it does not use everything.
5912022-02-10T20:15:36 <belcher> i tunnel-visioned in creating a http server in python, but thats only needed for receiving, for sending you just need to make a http request
5922022-02-10T20:15:54 <prayank> belcher: you have good points. I need time.
5932022-02-10T20:16:09 <belcher> implementing sending of payjoins in electrum or other wallets is also useful i think
5942022-02-10T20:16:12 <prayank> and you should try nostr
5952022-02-10T20:16:36 <belcher> once more wallets support sending to, maybe more merchants will end up supporting receiving (they just need to enable to option in btcpayserver, no coding is needed if they use that)
5962022-02-10T20:18:22 <prayank> 99% nodes use core, I am sure most of them also use core wallet RPC
5972022-02-10T20:18:46 <prayank> so its impossible to improve privacy without core
5982022-02-10T20:19:18 <achow101> prayank: that's an assumption that is definitely not true (that most use core wallet's rpc)
5992022-02-10T20:19:19 <belcher> plenty of those nodes might use other wallets on top, such as electrum via their own server, or spectre, or samourai's dojo thing
6002022-02-10T20:19:47 <achow101> there are a lot of people who run nodes and use some other wallet
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6022022-02-10T20:20:19 <prayank> hmm maybe makes sense
6032022-02-10T20:20:27 <prayank> not sure
6042022-02-10T20:20:40 <belcher> one thing worth noting, the way equal-output coinjoins work is that multiple senders come together to protect all their privacy together... the way payjoin works is that a customer and merchant together protect both their privacy, so it only makes sense to you as a customer if you think the merchant isnt spying on you, therefore payjoin is pretty pointless to be adopted by exchanges which do kyc, i.e. theres no point begging coinbase to adopt
6052022-02-10T20:20:40 <belcher> payjoin
6062022-02-10T20:21:16 <belcher> much more useful would be to ask places like bitcoin casinos, p2p exchanges and individual web stores to adopt payjoin
6072022-02-10T20:21:44 <belcher> indeed the very first payjoin BIP was written by the operator of a bitcoin casino whos customers kept getting banned because they transferred coins straight from a kyc exchange to the casino
6082022-02-10T20:30:08 <prayank> belcher: I am not sure why merchange and customer is used in this example it can be any peer1 and peer2 or alice-bob. If bitcoin was used for merchant and customer thing today maybe this thing was already solved.
6092022-02-10T20:30:27 <prayank> *merchant
6102022-02-10T20:30:35 <belcher> the merchant/customer relationship is used because payjoin requires a payment to be happening
6112022-02-10T20:31:14 <prayank> and it can be achieved with any peers looking for privacy
6122022-02-10T20:31:49 <belcher> only if theres some kind of payment going between those peers
6132022-02-10T20:31:49 <achow101> if I pay you, you are the merchant, and I am the customer. merchant/customer does not mean "big company" and "single person"
6142022-02-10T20:32:09 <belcher> compare that to equal-output coinjoins which generally involve different people coming together to make a transaction and not really paying each other
6152022-02-10T20:32:21 <michaelfolkson> Coinjoin - you get back what you put in Payjoin - funds are actually moving from individual A to B. But I think this should be on another channel
6162022-02-10T20:32:52 <prayank> I was a merchant in 2017 and I know merchants do not care about privacy in most of the case unless their brand is about privacy
6172022-02-10T20:34:04 <achow101> and that is probably why payjoin does not see almost any adoption
6182022-02-10T20:34:28 <Kaizen_Kintsugi_> @michaelfolkson: will do
6192022-02-10T20:38:13 <prayank> I agree with most of the things you shared: achow101: belcher: I will quit and need a few days break to think about it how to make payjoin great again. Also thanks to everyone else who shared their feedback.
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6342022-02-10T22:27:52 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prusnak closed pull request #24274: Introduce GetFileArg and use it where possible (master...GetFileArg) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24274
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