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142022-03-27T00:54:23 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] brunoerg reopened pull request #24687: test: Check an invalid -i2psam will raise an init error (master...2022-03-add-invalid-proxy-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24687
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472022-03-27T04:58:59 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #24686: ci: Clean package manager cache on CentOS (master...220326-dnf) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24686
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922022-03-27T10:20:33 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prusnak opened pull request #24688: build, qt: drop fix_no_printer patch, add (master...qt5-5.15.3+patches) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24688
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962022-03-27T10:48:00 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prusnak closed pull request #24688: build, qt: drop fix_no_printer patch, add CVE fixes (master...qt5-5.15.3+patches) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24688
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992022-03-27T11:05:20 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #24684: build, qt: Drop fix_no_printer.patch (master...220326-qtprint) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24684
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1292022-03-27T13:44:00 <smartsanctions> https://web.archive.org/web/20220327132603/https://twitter.com/gladstein/status/1507969143689023495
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2162022-03-27T21:37:16 <jeremyrubin> bitcoin core doesn't have an API for getting a valid pubkey for taproot does it?
2172022-03-27T21:37:25 <jeremyrubin> trying to figure out if it's something worth having
2182022-03-27T21:37:39 <jeremyrubin> the way i can think of doing it is getnewaddress and getaddressinfo
2192022-03-27T21:37:47 <jeremyrubin> but that's not guaranteed to be a TR address
2202022-03-27T21:37:58 <jeremyrubin> and the top-level key in theory could be NUMS
2212022-03-27T21:39:28 <sipa> any public key is valid for tr()
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2232022-03-27T21:40:53 <jeremyrubin> that's not true
2242022-03-27T21:41:04 <jeremyrubin> i want a valid spendable one
2252022-03-27T21:41:21 <jeremyrubin> e.g. if i do getaddressinfo the top-level key i can see might be NUMs
2262022-03-27T21:41:28 <sipa> i mean any public key you generate
2272022-03-27T21:41:31 <jeremyrubin> yes
2282022-03-27T21:41:46 <jeremyrubin> i would like core to generate a a public key and give it to me
2292022-03-27T21:42:07 <jeremyrubin> since it does hardened derivation i cant do it my own
2302022-03-27T21:42:15 <jeremyrubin> but i'd want the key and maybe the path?
2312022-03-27T21:42:28 <sipa> what do you want this for?
2322022-03-27T21:42:33 <jeremyrubin> e.g. if i want to create a multisig address let's say
2332022-03-27T21:43:06 <sipa> yeah, there isn't a good interface for that
2342022-03-27T21:43:10 <jeremyrubin> i want to input the key into Miniscript and have my core wallet be able to sign a psbt
2352022-03-27T21:43:18 <sipa> though i think generating pubkeys manually is too low level
2362022-03-27T21:43:26 <jeremyrubin> are there any reasons not to expose that?
2372022-03-27T21:43:33 <sipa> you generally want xpubs or xpub paths for using in a descriptir
2382022-03-27T21:43:36 <jeremyrubin> sipa: it's not manually, it's done through software
2392022-03-27T21:43:44 <jeremyrubin> sipa: but core does hardened derivation
2402022-03-27T21:43:51 <jeremyrubin> i would like core to give me a hardened key
2412022-03-27T21:43:53 <sipa> sure, i mean: not per individual key
2422022-03-27T21:44:10 <sipa> @jeremyrubin Only if you use hardened derivation paths
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2442022-03-27T21:44:30 <sipa> You can construct descriptors with unhardened paths too
2452022-03-27T21:44:39 <jeremyrubin> but wrt miniscript, i still need to send a deriv path to core and get the actual key back
2462022-03-27T21:44:50 <jeremyrubin> i cant otherwise create the address from third party software
2472022-03-27T21:44:55 <jeremyrubin> since it's a hardened path...
2482022-03-27T21:45:10 <jeremyrubin> theres also not a way to dump XPUB right now AFAIU
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2502022-03-27T21:47:24 <sipa> All keys are linked to a descriptor in descriptor wallets, I believe. So you can't really ask to generate a key without risking having that key being reused in an address.
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2552022-03-27T21:47:56 <sipa> You can export xpubs or xprvs.
2562022-03-27T21:48:01 <jeremyrubin> hmm isn't there an application prefix?
2572022-03-27T21:48:03 <jeremyrubin> (for context, hit up on this in Sapio studio where i want to input keys for spend paths into a vault contract, but don't really have any clear way to actually get a key a core node would be able to sign for)
2582022-03-27T21:48:17 <sipa> Or rather, descriptors with or without private key data.
2592022-03-27T21:48:25 <sipa> What are application prefixes?
2602022-03-27T21:48:44 <jeremyrubin> https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/78993/default-derivation-paths
2612022-03-27T21:49:18 <sipa> Yes, but you can choose them freely when importing, and they're also part of exported descriptors.
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2632022-03-27T21:52:56 <sipa> You could try to export an existing descriptor, use its key expression with a slightly or non-hardened different path or so, and re-import that.
2642022-03-27T21:53:03 <jeremyrubin> Ok it sounds like the flow might be:
2652022-03-27T21:53:20 <sipa> Not sure if that works; the private key may be tied to the descriptor it came from.
2662022-03-27T21:53:35 <sipa> Certainly easier to just generate a new xprv externally and import that.
2672022-03-27T21:55:42 <jeremyrubin> sipa: yes but in theory i want to prefer cores rng lol
2682022-03-27T21:55:51 <jeremyrubin> and then i need to backup a new thing
2692022-03-27T21:56:54 <sipa> maybe there could be a feature to generating a fresh xpub (whose private key gets stored in the wallet)?
2702022-03-27T21:56:59 <jeremyrubin> listdescript => filter for tr => getdescriptorinfo => check if isSolvable => deriveaddresses? but then the issue there is reuse...
2712022-03-27T21:57:11 <sipa> so you can construct descriptor key expressions from that
2722022-03-27T21:57:16 <jeremyrubin> still need ot back up a new thing
2732022-03-27T21:57:21 <jeremyrubin> prefer to have 1 seed backup
2742022-03-27T21:57:31 <sipa> that's not how core works
2752022-03-27T21:57:47 <sipa> if you're going to be importing a descriptor anyway, you'll need a new backup regardless
2762022-03-27T21:58:04 <jeremyrubin> I thought you can rebuild most wallet state with a reindex
2772022-03-27T21:58:10 <jeremyrubin> and just a seed backup
2782022-03-27T21:58:29 <sipa> for bitcoin core you need a backup of the wallet.dat
2792022-03-27T21:58:39 <jeremyrubin> when?
2802022-03-27T21:58:44 <sipa> or since recently, a dump of the private descriptors will also work
2812022-03-27T21:58:56 <sipa> since descriptor wallets
2822022-03-27T21:59:19 <jeremyrubin> i mean "after which events"
2832022-03-27T21:59:22 <jeremyrubin> i just made a backup
2842022-03-27T21:59:26 <jeremyrubin> when do i backup again
2852022-03-27T21:59:28 <sipa> after importing anything
2862022-03-27T21:59:47 <jeremyrubin> so the difference is that
2872022-03-27T21:59:55 <jeremyrubin> for the seed it's the _private_ materials
2882022-03-27T22:00:04 <jeremyrubin> which the backup procedures are different for IMO
2892022-03-27T22:00:15 <sipa> they can be, in theory
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2912022-03-27T22:00:28 <sipa> but that's not how it works in bitcoin core's wallet
2922022-03-27T22:00:36 <jeremyrubin> for a non-priv bearing descriptor, i can back it up to e.g. cloud storage
2932022-03-27T22:00:49 <sipa> yes, i'm aware
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2952022-03-27T22:01:13 <sipa> but again, that's not how it works; the supported procedure is backing up your wallet.dat
2962022-03-27T22:01:43 <jeremyrubin> i dont think for the thing im doing you need to backup anything in core
2972022-03-27T22:01:49 <jeremyrubin> the descriptors arent being kept in core
2982022-03-27T22:01:54 <jeremyrubin> theyre kept externally
2992022-03-27T22:01:56 <sipa> yes they are
3002022-03-27T22:02:08 <jeremyrubin> i just need core to spit out a derivation path and key?
3012022-03-27T22:02:09 <sipa> if you want bitcoin core to use them you need to import them
3022022-03-27T22:02:19 <jeremyrubin> yes, but they dont need to be backed up
3032022-03-27T22:02:27 <jeremyrubin> because this application layer can always re-import them
3042022-03-27T22:02:36 <jeremyrubin> it will "own" them afterwards
3052022-03-27T22:02:43 <jeremyrubin> but core still has the signing authority
3062022-03-27T22:04:53 <sipa> achow101 probably has a better idea how something like that could be supported
3072022-03-27T22:05:10 <sipa> it wasn't clear to me you just wanted the ability to sign
3082022-03-27T22:05:17 <jeremyrubin> yeah
3092022-03-27T22:05:29 <jeremyrubin> im happy to treat all the other data as responsibility of client
3102022-03-27T22:05:50 <sipa> i'm not sure it's possible to do something like that currently
3112022-03-27T22:05:53 <jeremyrubin> it's a pretty straighforward architecture that you treat core as your 'key enclave' and then it will give you data out that it could later sign for
3122022-03-27T22:06:08 <jeremyrubin> maybe it's a separate software project for a virtual key enclave...
3132022-03-27T22:06:55 <jeremyrubin> but it'd be nice if it's core because it's good to have like all the wallet and descriptor stuff working in that, as well as other things core can do
3142022-03-27T22:09:08 <jeremyrubin> thanks for your time!
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