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112023-01-13T00:31:28 <bytes1440000> I have left some comments in PR. One last thing that I observed and want to share since people have accused me of a few things because I have asked some question related to PR being stalled for months:
122023-01-13T00:31:28 <bytes1440000> "Aggressive" Comment by jnewbery: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25923#issuecomment-1227366243
132023-01-13T00:31:29 <bytes1440000> Only comment in vasild's PR by fanquake: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25871#issuecomment-1234087767
142023-01-13T00:31:29 <bytes1440000> Scoping disagreements by dergoegge: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25871#issuecomment-1257032315
152023-01-13T00:31:30 <bytes1440000> No comments by glowzow
162023-01-13T00:31:30 <bytes1440000> There is one thing common between all these developers and its Brink.
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512023-01-13T03:13:43 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #26884: test: wallet: add coverage for `-spendzeroconfchange` setting (master...202301-test-add_nospendzeroconfchange_coverage) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26884
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1192023-01-13T07:47:10 <provoostenator> Quiet meeting or is my Matrix IRC bridge broken? :-)
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1252023-01-13T08:02:32 <_aj_> provoostenator: matrix bridge is broken, or you're 12h out of sync? https://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/log-2023-01-12.html#l-314
1262023-01-13T08:05:01 <provoostenator> _aj_: odd, now I see the conversation, so it must have caught up.
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1372023-01-13T08:45:36 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f4ef856375c5...dcae3c19b82c
1382023-01-13T08:45:37 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9b158ae John Moffett: Update to mention restoring wallet via GUI
1392023-01-13T08:45:37 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dc9bad5 John Moffett: Change dots to an ellipsis and fix capitalization
1402023-01-13T08:45:37 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dcae3c1 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#26867: doc: Mention restoring wallet via GUI
1412023-01-13T08:45:42 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #26867: doc: Mention restoring wallet via GUI (master...2023_01_DocWalletRestoreGUI) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26867
1422023-01-13T08:57:26 <michaelfolkson> bytes1440000: Indeed. It appears we have a Brink problem. We've lost Core as an open source project
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1442023-01-13T08:58:37 <michaelfolkson> Not sure what is going on there. If anyone has any insight my DMs are open
1452023-01-13T08:59:45 <michaelfolkson> If I had to guess there is a small group of people including a founder of Brink, a couple of maintainers and maybe others who think they can make decisions as a small private group and not tell anyone else about the rationales for those decisions
1462023-01-13T09:00:19 <michaelfolkson> But just speculating, it is very strange
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1482023-01-13T09:04:17 <michaelfolkson> Longer term we might have to think about how we route around this small group. We can't continue like this if we want Bitcoin Core to stay open source
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1542023-01-13T09:41:16 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/dcae3c19b82c...07c54de55003
1552023-01-13T09:41:17 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9d47e7b Pieter Wuille: Squashed 'src/secp256k1/' changes from 44c2452fd3..21ffe4b22a
1562023-01-13T09:41:17 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4462cb0 Pieter Wuille: Adapt to libsecp256k1 API changes
1572023-01-13T09:41:17 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3d8a6ae Pieter Wuille: Update secp256k1 subtree to upstream libsecp256k1 version 0.2.0
1582023-01-13T09:41:31 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #26691: Update secp256k1 subtree to libsecp256k1 version 0.2.0 (master...secp256k1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26691
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1812023-01-13T11:16:54 <jnewbery> bytes1440000: I haven't been involved in day-to-day Bitcoin Core development for over a year. The only reason I commented on #25923 was that I was tagged by vasild with the comment "a bug is a bug, even if it was done on purpose.". My response was to correct several mistakes made by both vasild and jonatack in their comments on that PR.
1822023-01-13T11:16:57 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25923 | p2p: always provide CNodeStateStats and getpeerinfo/netinfo/gui updates by jonatack · Pull Request #25923 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1832023-01-13T11:17:03 <jnewbery> The PR description has been changed 15 times(!) by jonatack, so it's difficult to see what I'm responding to. Earlier descriptions referred to "regressions" and "API stability".
1842023-01-13T11:17:11 <jnewbery> I stand by my statement in that PR: "Both the PR description and @vasild's comment make it sound like this was some nefarious intentional API break, or some egregious bug. It's neither."
1852023-01-13T11:17:25 <jnewbery> It's not aggression to defend myself from an accusation that I'd introduced a bug, much less from one that I'd introduced a break intentionally. It's also not aggression to correct mistakes on a PR - that's literally what review is for.
1862023-01-13T11:17:35 <jnewbery> As for whether I think vasild should become a maintainer: I haven't commented on that PR because I no longer contribute regularly to the project, so my opinion carries little weight. I also haven't been keeping track of his more recent contributions to the project.
1872023-01-13T11:17:47 <jnewbery> michaelfolkson: I haven't been involved with Brink or Bitcoin Core for over a year, and yet I continue to get tagged in PRs and irc with accusations that I've deliberately broken code, been "aggressive" or am involved in some shady cabal that controls Bitcoin Core.
1882023-01-13T11:18:03 <jnewbery> It's striking that neither of the two people making the accusations or pushing for vasild to become maintainer have made *any* meaningful contributions to Bitcoin Core. And yet they make incessent demands on contributors' and maintainers' time and attention and then demand justification when they don't get that attention.
1892023-01-13T11:18:14 <jnewbery> Incidentally, I do agree with you that some of the processes around Bitcoin Core are broken at the moment. There are a small number of developers doing very important and very good work (including people that you regularly attack), but sadly that good work is often drowned out by interminable PRs and irc discussions about politics instead of code.
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1942023-01-13T11:21:14 <michaelfolkson> jnewbery: Indeed my friend. Some of us have to spend months on the stuff no one else wants to do. Like chasing maintainers for not doing their jobs and trying to get community consensus on soft fork activation mechanisms
1952023-01-13T11:21:32 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kouloumos opened pull request #26886: test: add `rescan utxos` inside MiniWallet's initialization (master...miniwallet-rescan_utxos) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26886
1962023-01-13T11:22:07 <michaelfolkson> Only to see people like you trash those efforts at the last minute with weird compromises
1972023-01-13T11:22:41 <jnewbery> michaelfolkson: you don't "have to" do anything. And I'd wager most people here would find this project a lot more pleasant if you chose not to.
1982023-01-13T11:23:36 <michaelfolkson> Well yeah pleasant is having two maintainers blocking whatever they like without a rationale and soft forks that are ready not get activated
1992023-01-13T11:23:54 <michaelfolkson> Or perhaps you'd like to venture that Luke and my efforts were pointless
2002023-01-13T11:24:05 <vasild> fwiw I mentioned you (jnewbery) on 25923 to double check whether my comment was correct. It turned out it was not and you corrected/clarified some things. Thanks for that. I think all is good. I did not mean to accuse or blame you in any way.
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2022023-01-13T11:24:29 <michaelfolkson> jnewbery as benevolent dictator could have chosen the weird compromise we ended up with and saved Luke and me a lot of hassle
2032023-01-13T11:25:53 <michaelfolkson> Or you could have NACKed Jeremy's CTV PR and saved me huge amounts of time in 2022
2042023-01-13T11:26:35 <michaelfolkson> People leave the rubbish for people like me and Luke to clear up and then abuse us
2052023-01-13T11:26:51 <michaelfolkson> Then they have the cheek to call us "unpleasant". Lol
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2102023-01-13T11:33:00 <jnewbery> I have no idea what you're talking about with a compromise or CTV. And I doubt anyone else in this channel is interested in this conversation.
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2122023-01-13T11:33:53 <michaelfolkson> No one ever is interested in the rubbish. That's why it is left to people like me and Luke to deal with it
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2172023-01-13T11:51:37 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns opened pull request #26887: RPC: make RPCResult::MatchesType return useful errors (master...202301-rpc-matchestype) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26887
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2192023-01-13T11:56:39 <_aj_> wow, CI is just having the best time. -- W: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic/InRelease Could not connect to archive.ubuntu.com:80
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2272023-01-13T12:54:51 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/07c54de55003...32834034a3a6
2282023-01-13T12:54:52 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master eea73d4 fanquake: test: skip sqlite3 tests if it isn't available
2292023-01-13T12:54:52 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3283403 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#26882: test: skip sqlite3 tests if it isn't available
2302023-01-13T12:55:07 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #26882: test: skip sqlite3 tests if it isn't available (master...func_tests_check_import_sqlite) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26882
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2422023-01-13T13:52:36 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild opened pull request #26888: net: simplify the call to vProcessMsg.splice() (master...simplify_vProcessMsg_splice) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26888
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2472023-01-13T14:02:24 <bytes1440000> jnewbery: I agree, I reviewed and tested less PRs. Will do more in 2023. Not sure what you mean by demand. Asking the maintainers about dysfunction and PR being stalled? Maybe 4 months wasn't enough time
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2602023-01-13T14:45:35 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] furszy opened pull request #26889: wallet: set keypool size instead of access global args manager from spkm (master...2022_spkm_keypool_size) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26889
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2622023-01-13T14:55:21 <instagibbs> michaelfolkson, just leave if that's what you believe. You've made your views known, now move on.
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2652023-01-13T15:10:15 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #25037: build: Create `noinst_LTLIBRARIES` conditionally (master...220429-targets) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25037
2662023-01-13T15:11:21 <instagibbs> @theStack, ive always wondered if anyone has ever used hybrid pubkeys in bitcoin
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2692023-01-13T15:15:48 <_aj_> https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg01181.html -- sipa did on testnet apparently?
2702023-01-13T15:18:42 <theStack> instagibbs: heh, that would indeed be very interesting. IIUC, we can still create P2PK outputs with hybrid pubkeys, but spending them is invalid (since SCRIPT_VERIFY_DERSIG)?!
2712023-01-13T15:19:57 <theStack> _aj_: thanks, that is a fun historic read
2722023-01-13T15:20:11 <instagibbs> you mean SCRIPT_VERIFY_STRICTENC?
2732023-01-13T15:20:18 <theStack> instagibbs: oh yeah indeed, sorry
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2752023-01-13T15:21:29 <instagibbs> kind of odd to allow creation and not redemption
2762023-01-13T15:22:52 <_aj_> we allow that for unknown segwit versions
2772023-01-13T15:24:22 <instagibbs> for a consensus-defined output type*
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2792023-01-13T15:31:45 <_aj_> seems like sipa's txs got reorged out, if they were even ever broadcast (that was about a year before regtest was created)
2802023-01-13T15:33:33 <sipa> Oh wow, hybrid keys.
2812023-01-13T15:33:41 <sipa> I had almost forgotten about those.
2822023-01-13T15:33:43 <instagibbs> 1-of-3 bare multisig with the same public key in compressed, uncompressed, and hybrid
2832023-01-13T15:33:49 <instagibbs> Just In Case
2842023-01-13T15:33:54 <sipa> haha
2852023-01-13T15:45:08 <michaelfolkson> instagibbs: Where do you suggest I leave to?
2862023-01-13T15:47:29 <instagibbs> somewhere you don't feel abused, life is too short
2872023-01-13T15:47:50 <michaelfolkson> Any alternative cryptocurrency you recommend?
2882023-01-13T15:49:08 <instagibbs> Not an invitation for more off topic convo, "move on"
2892023-01-13T15:49:37 <michaelfolkson> Oh it is a "move on and shut up". Ok gotcha, charming
2902023-01-13T15:50:47 <instagibbs> bye
2912023-01-13T15:56:33 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/32834034a3a6...8915e4d9f5b7
2922023-01-13T15:56:33 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0f883df fanquake: build: fix configuring with only bitcoin-util
2932023-01-13T15:56:34 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8915e4d fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#26824: build: fix configuring with only bitcoin-util
2942023-01-13T15:59:20 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #26824: build: fix configuring with only bitcoin-util (master...fix_bitcoin_util_configure) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26824
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2972023-01-13T16:27:58 <halosghost> I'm struggling to even find information on what a hybrid key is
2982023-01-13T16:28:44 <halosghost> anyone happen to have a handy link lying around? ⺠(I saw _aj_'s link to sipa's mail mentioning what the actual layout is, but I don't understand what it's for or what makes it hybrid)
2992023-01-13T16:28:52 <sipa> It's a public key encoding specified in SEC1 (the same series of documents that secp256k1 came from).
3002023-01-13T16:29:02 <sipa> It defines:
3012023-01-13T16:29:18 <sipa> 0x00 for infinity (not used, as infinity is not a valid public key)
3022023-01-13T16:30:30 <sipa> 0x02 or 0x03 + X coordinate, compressed key with the prefix indicating the Y sign
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3052023-01-13T16:30:46 <sipa> 0x04 + X coordinate + Y coordinate, the uncompressed encodin
3062023-01-13T16:31:11 <sipa> and 0x06 or 0x07 + X coordinate + Y coordinate, with the prefix repeating the Y sign, the hybrid encoding
3072023-01-13T16:31:16 <sipa> it's truly dumb
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3092023-01-13T16:33:55 <halosghost> oh, I see
3102023-01-13T16:34:25 <sipa> Actually, now that I look up the spec, it does not mention the hybrid encoding, only infinity, compressed, and uncompressed.
3112023-01-13T16:34:38 <instagibbs> OpenSSL supported it, so Bitcoin supports it
3122023-01-13T16:34:42 <halosghost> so, what you meant in the mailer (that you can just treat them as if they had the prefix 0x04) is that the sign preservation is redundant because the full Y coordinate is stored anyway
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3142023-01-13T16:34:42 <sipa> https://secg.org/sec1-v2.pdf, section 2.3.3, if anyone is interested
3152023-01-13T16:34:43 <instagibbs> was my sense
3162023-01-13T16:34:51 <sipa> It may just have been an OpenSSL invention.
3172023-01-13T16:34:57 <halosghost> that makes sense
3182023-01-13T16:35:08 <halosghost> and yeah⦠that sounds a bit like something OpenSSL might do âº
3192023-01-13T16:35:18 <halosghost> sipa: thanks for the clarification!
3202023-01-13T16:35:35 <sipa> halosghost: Unfortunately, no, you cannot just treat them as having 0x04 instead, because if the parity in the prefix mismatches the actual Y coordinate that follows, the encoding is invalid.
3212023-01-13T16:35:48 <halosghost> mm, sure
3222023-01-13T16:36:24 <halosghost> additional failure cases!
3232023-01-13T16:36:26 <halosghost> fun âº
3242023-01-13T16:37:29 <sipa> Oh, you were just repeating what decade-ago-sipa claimed. I guess he was being inaccurate.
3252023-01-13T16:37:34 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #26890: Introduce a Code of Conduct (master...add-code-of-conduct) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26890
3262023-01-13T16:37:53 <achow101> #proposedmeetingtopic code of conduct
3272023-01-13T16:37:59 <instagibbs> https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/57855/c-secp256k1-what-do-prefixes-0x06-and-0x07-in-an-uncompressed-public-key-signif
3282023-01-13T16:38:08 <instagibbs> 6 year ago sipa claims its in ANSI standard
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3302023-01-13T16:39:39 <sipa> Oh wow, 6-years-ago-sipa was a lot smarter than 10-year-ago-sipa or current-sipa.
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3322023-01-13T16:40:36 <instagibbs> sipa officially over the hill
3332023-01-13T16:41:00 <halosghost> hah
3342023-01-13T16:41:36 *** TallTim_ is now known as TallTim
3352023-01-13T16:43:50 <sipa> haha
3362023-01-13T16:45:11 <sipa> ANSI X9.62-1998 says: "NOTEâ The hybrid form contains information of both compressed and uncompressed forms. It allows an implementation to
3372023-01-13T16:45:11 <sipa> convert to either compressed form or to uncompressed form."
3382023-01-13T16:45:14 <sipa> LOL
3392023-01-13T16:45:21 <halosghost> â¦
3402023-01-13T16:45:37 <halosghost> right⦠because neither the compressed nor uncompressed forms allow you to convert to the otherâ¦
3412023-01-13T16:45:57 <halosghost> I assume they meant âtrivially convertâ or something
3422023-01-13T16:46:04 <halosghost> but that's quite a choice
3432023-01-13T16:46:17 <sipa> At least going from compressed to uncompressed involves a square root.
3442023-01-13T16:46:41 <sipa> But going from uncompressed to compressed is just as hard as from hybrid to compressed.
3452023-01-13T16:47:23 <halosghost> I'm pretty comfortable saying that was a BadIdeaâ¢
3462023-01-13T16:47:31 <halosghost> but then, I'm not responsible for ANSI standards
3472023-01-13T16:47:36 <halosghost> âº
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3622023-01-13T17:32:01 <sipa> Heh, it appears SEC1 does include some comstraints that curves need to satisfy... and some of them secp256k1 doesn't actually satisfy.
3632023-01-13T17:32:12 <sipa> No clue where these constraints come from, TBH.
3642023-01-13T17:32:20 <sipa> They seem unrelated to security.
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3882023-01-13T18:36:18 <ariard> achow101: clear NACK on my side on a CoC, just for all the legal implications to have a formal disciplinary authority around the project...
3892023-01-13T18:36:26 <ariard> but we can discuss it more during next meeting
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3942023-01-13T18:41:08 <ariard> sghost> that makes sense
3952023-01-13T18:41:17 <ariard> mistake
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3972023-01-13T18:43:17 <achow101> ariard: what sort of legal implications? if there are any, would they not apply to the ad-hoc way we do disciplinary actions now? (when they are occasionally done)
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4022023-01-13T18:59:35 <provoostenator> The current document uses phrases like "leaders" and "officially representing the community in public spaces" which seems a bit off for this project, but that wording could be tweaked.
4032023-01-13T19:00:05 <Murch1> Hi
4042023-01-13T19:00:21 <achow101> #startmeeting
4052023-01-13T19:00:21 <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Fri Jan 13 19:00:21 2023 UTC. The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
4062023-01-13T19:00:21 <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
4072023-01-13T19:00:25 <provoostenator> hi
4082023-01-13T19:00:34 <achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack josibake jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos Murch nehan NicolasDorier
4092023-01-13T19:00:34 <achow101> paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK sipa vasild
4102023-01-13T19:00:44 <achow101> Welcome to the bi-weekly wallet meeting
4112023-01-13T19:00:46 <sipa> hi
4122023-01-13T19:01:01 <achow101> There are no pre-proposed wallet meeting topics
4132023-01-13T19:01:07 <achow101> does anyone have anything to discuss?
4142023-01-13T19:01:24 <furszy> hi
4152023-01-13T19:01:34 <Murch1> furszy is doing great work, nothing else :p
4162023-01-13T19:01:57 <furszy> <3
4172023-01-13T19:02:39 <Murch1> Kinda curious how we are getting non-zero waste scores for coin selection algorithms when the feerate, LTFRE, and cost-of-change are 0
4182023-01-13T19:02:40 <Murch1> May be a bug
4192023-01-13T19:02:48 <Murch1> but I guess furszy and I will be looking a bit more into that
4202023-01-13T19:02:57 <achow101> Murch1: in a test?
4212023-01-13T19:03:03 <Murch1> Aye
4222023-01-13T19:03:07 <achow101> excess
4232023-01-13T19:03:16 <furszy> yeah
4242023-01-13T19:03:23 <Murch1> #26720
4252023-01-13T19:03:25 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/26720 | wallet: coin selection, dont return results that exceed the max allowed weight by furszy · Pull Request #26720 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4262023-01-13T19:03:26 <achow101> that's the only other term in that equation
4272023-01-13T19:03:32 <Murch1> Excess only appears in transactions without change
4282023-01-13T19:04:00 <achow101> I'll put that on my todo list
4292023-01-13T19:04:08 <furszy> as there is no change, the waste is merely calculated by waste = selected_effective_value - target;
4302023-01-13T19:04:11 <Murch1> it's 0 for transactions with change
4312023-01-13T19:04:14 <Murch1> See GetSelectionWaste(â¦)
4322023-01-13T19:04:44 <Murch1> Clarification, there is a change output, but the cost_of_change is set to 0 for the test.
4332023-01-13T19:05:24 <Murch1> furszy: If that were so, that would be a bug
4342023-01-13T19:05:45 <furszy> the test is only running the selection process, it's not creating a tx
4352023-01-13T19:05:55 <furszy> not sure what you think that there is a change output
4362023-01-13T19:05:58 <achow101> Murch1: it's probably excess. IIRC we assume cost_of_change == 0 means changeless solution which means include excess
4372023-01-13T19:06:15 <Murch1> Nuh uh
4382023-01-13T19:06:17 <furszy> *why you think
4392023-01-13T19:06:26 <furszy> achow101: yep
4402023-01-13T19:07:09 <Murch1> It's running Knapsack and SRD
4412023-01-13T19:07:09 <Murch1> They produce change
4422023-01-13T19:07:12 <Murch1> waste = input_weight à (feerate - LTFRE) + cost_of_change + excess
4432023-01-13T19:07:13 <Murch1> feerate = LTFRE = 0
4442023-01-13T19:07:13 <Murch1> cost_of_change = 0
4452023-01-13T19:07:21 <Murch1> excess is zero for solutions with change
4462023-01-13T19:07:36 <Murch1> so both Knapsack and SRD should have a waste score of 0 throughout the test
4472023-01-13T19:07:41 <achow101> Murch1: ignoring the fact of whether or not change is produced, we determine whether to use excess depending on the value of cost_of_change. If it happens to be 0, then we include excess
4482023-01-13T19:07:41 <Murch1> but furszy reports they do not
4492023-01-13T19:07:44 <Murch1> ergo Bug
4502023-01-13T19:07:56 <Murch1> achow101: ooooooooh.
4512023-01-13T19:07:59 <Murch1> Gah.
4522023-01-13T19:08:13 <Murch1> That is TERRIBLE
4532023-01-13T19:08:25 <Murch1> but okay, I see why I'm wrong
4542023-01-13T19:08:26 <Murch1> thanks
4552023-01-13T19:08:33 <achow101> well it works in normal usage :)
4562023-01-13T19:08:54 <Murch1> IMO, the issue here is that we are setting a bunch of values that are never 0 to 0 in a test that is supposed to test how the function works when everything is not 0
4572023-01-13T19:08:57 <achow101> but yes, it might make sense to change that
4582023-01-13T19:09:39 <Murch1> Yes, let's please not set everything to zero when that is completely unnatural and never occurs in operation
4592023-01-13T19:10:04 <Murch1> Sure, we might have tests to see that it would continue working, but it just baffles me that we are testing coin selection but make it behave completely different
4602023-01-13T19:10:06 <achow101> right, a lot of the tests pre-date the more recent coin selection things and so in that conversion, it was convenient to use a default value of 0 because then they wouldn't implode
4612023-01-13T19:10:14 <Murch1> I guess I had a topic after all :p
4622023-01-13T19:10:35 <Murch1> Okay, how about we just don't do that
4632023-01-13T19:10:42 <achow101> however I think our coin selection decisions are stable enough at this point we should go through the tests and actually update them and evaluate whether they still make sense
4642023-01-13T19:11:08 <Murch1> Also, tbh, the trigger of adding excess when cost_of_change is 0, is kinda bad
4652023-01-13T19:11:14 <Murch1> it should be whether or not there is change
4662023-01-13T19:11:16 <achow101> note: I am not volunteering to do this but will gladly review
4672023-01-13T19:11:32 <Murch1> Yeah, that's alright
4682023-01-13T19:12:19 <Murch1> Also, furszy: my apologies, I was wrong and you were right all along!
4692023-01-13T19:12:19 <Murch1> haha
4702023-01-13T19:12:45 <achow101> glad I could resolve that without having to actually read any code :)
4712023-01-13T19:13:13 <Murch1> I bet
4722023-01-13T19:13:27 <furszy> hehe, i tried to explain what achow101 said in a line in 4 long comments in the PR :p
4732023-01-13T19:13:57 <furszy> should have used the "excess" wording
4742023-01-13T19:13:59 <Murch1> Yeah, in theory it should work, but in practiceâ¦
4752023-01-13T19:14:55 <Murch1> Nah, sorry, that was my fault, I did not realize that setting cost_of_change = 0 actually makes everything evaluate as if it were changeless solutions ð¤¦ââï¸
4762023-01-13T19:15:22 <achow101> anything else to discuss?
4772023-01-13T19:15:39 <Murch1> BIP47 is terrible
4782023-01-13T19:15:49 <Murch1> No discussion necessary, though
4792023-01-13T19:15:53 <Murch1> :p
4802023-01-13T19:16:10 <Murch1> err, no
4812023-01-13T19:16:45 <Murch1> Also, are we defaulting to P2TR change yet? ^^
4822023-01-13T19:17:17 <Murch1> At least when sending to P2PKH for wallets that don't have a legacy descriptor?
4832023-01-13T19:17:18 <achow101> I think we might want to avoid changing that since it ends up being a dead giveaway of what our change is
4842023-01-13T19:17:44 <Murch1> I mean, we already match the recipient output when we have a descriptor for that type
4852023-01-13T19:18:21 <achow101> if you do not have a descriptor for legacy, and have a bech32m descriptor, we will use a bech32m as change
4862023-01-13T19:18:43 <Murch1> noice
4872023-01-13T19:18:49 <achow101> so I think the answer is that we already do what you suggest
4882023-01-13T19:18:52 * Murch1 uploaded an image: (179KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/euMDnthvCgXYBsOVqnUMibAL/image.png >
4892023-01-13T19:19:06 <Murch1> P2TR outputs have been going up quite a bit
4902023-01-13T19:19:44 <achow101> A more relevant question might be when should we change the default address type to p2tr
4912023-01-13T19:19:57 <Murch1> v25
4922023-01-13T19:20:39 <achow101> I think we would need to do some research on what wallets will accept and correctly interpret bech32m
4932023-01-13T19:21:22 <Murch1> I gotchu: https://whentaproot.org/#support
4942023-01-13T19:21:57 <Murch1> It's just a few stragglers of minor relevance such as Binance, Coinbase, Bitfinex, Bitso, Crypto.com, Fireblocks, Gemini, Luno, and Paxful that have not implemented support yet
4952023-01-13T19:22:13 <achow101> it's only the biggest exchange, nbd
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4972023-01-13T19:22:50 <Murch1> ð
4982023-01-13T19:22:53 <achow101> I guess choosing the address type to use is really easy to do now so maybe it doesn't matter as much?
4992023-01-13T19:23:26 <Murch1> If we announce that we are switching the default address type early and loudly enough, they might also just finally do the ~2 line code change
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5022023-01-13T19:23:57 <Murch1> But yeah, for real, maybe v26 is more realistic
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5052023-01-13T19:25:17 <achow101> any other topics?
5062023-01-13T19:25:36 <Murch1> We should do a wallet offsite
5072023-01-13T19:25:44 <Murch1> just wallet devs hanging out for a few days
5082023-01-13T19:26:05 <Murch1> preferably in the winter on an island where it's warm
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5102023-01-13T19:26:57 <Murch1> I hear the Caribbean is nice this time of the year
5112023-01-13T19:27:04 <achow101> perhaps
5122023-01-13T19:27:32 <achow101> I don't know if there's a whole lot to talk about that we can't do during a coredev event?
5132023-01-13T19:27:47 <Murch1> ð¤·
5142023-01-13T19:27:56 <Murch1> I think you are only catching part of the point :p
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5162023-01-13T19:30:03 <achow101> #endmeeting
5172023-01-13T19:30:04 <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
5182023-01-13T19:30:04 <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Fri Jan 13 19:30:03 2023 UTC.
5192023-01-13T19:30:04 <core-meetingbot> Minutes: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2023/bitcoin-core-dev.2023-01-13-19.00.moin.txt
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5412023-01-13T20:57:02 <ariard> achow101: legal responsibility of the moderation team for contributors code and statements on the repository, or in fact any related venue
5422023-01-13T20:57:52 <ariard> it could apply to the ad-hoc actions already taken...formalizing make things worse from a legal reasoning standpoint as you function on decision criterias
5432023-01-13T20:58:28 <ariard> and here you have to consider not only your local juridiction -- but also the ones of anyone to whom you might take actions
5442023-01-13T21:00:02 <ariard> as of today, according to foss standards, contributors are only responsible of their own acts
5452023-01-13T21:01:22 <ariard> at the very least I would advice to take opinoins from lawyers on the case, the annoying thing we're evolving in an environement where the legal responsibilites of cryptocurrencies dev are in plain discussion
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5502023-01-13T21:45:12 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #26891: ci: Update "Win64 native" task (master...230113-vcpkg) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26891
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