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38 2015-10-07T00:43:28 <OxADADA> warren: where does the analysis live?
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40 2015-10-07T00:44:36 <warren> OxADADA: i'm asking if anyone know if this has been done before
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42 2015-10-07T00:45:08 <OxADADA> warren: ah
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56 2015-10-07T01:04:27 <alpalp> Is anyone aware of any attempts to build any kind of language or abstraction on top of Bitcoin Scripting?
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118 2015-10-07T02:54:04 <bedeho> can you use if op code with p2sh ?
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123 2015-10-07T03:12:32 <CodeShark> bedeho: yes
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125 2015-10-07T03:13:26 <CodeShark> unless explicitly marked disabled, I think all the opcodes here can be used in p2sh: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script
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143 2015-10-07T03:58:00 <bedeho> CodeShark, so, is OP_AND actually illegal with p2sh?
144 2015-10-07T03:59:47 <CodeShark> the most authoritative place to look is probably https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/script/interpreter.cpp#L238
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211 2015-10-07T05:57:20 <paveljanik> https://bitcoinfees.github.io/#30m - unusual amount of txs ~14788 bytes long...
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213 2015-10-07T06:07:24 <hardyred> Hi there quick question
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215 2015-10-07T06:08:18 <Luke-Jr> hardyred: #bitcoin if it isn't Bitcoin development
216 2015-10-07T06:08:41 <hardyred> If it's a bitcoin development related question is it alright?
217 2015-10-07T06:09:08 <Luke-Jr> then don't ask to ask.
218 2015-10-07T06:11:07 <hardyred> Well if I am using JSON-RPC to connect with bitcoind to access Bitcoin's network (aka searching for information on TXIDs and whatnot) will I quickly run in to a scalability issue?
219 2015-10-07T06:11:24 <hardyred> Like if I am using it for a public service with 1000+ people accessing it every hour
220 2015-10-07T06:12:33 <hardyred> I am not planning on sending any transactions or generating any keys, just for transaction lookups
221 2015-10-07T06:13:42 <paveljanik> hardyred, that would be a good test :-) you can play with rpcthreads. But generally RPC interface is not optimized for such use case. But you can help amking it better!
222 2015-10-07T06:14:43 <paveljanik> first try to benchmark the service itself with e.g. ab2 - is it able to handle your workload?
223 2015-10-07T06:15:18 <paveljanik> it is doable, but maybe osme finetuning is needed.
224 2015-10-07T06:15:34 <hardyred> paveljanik: Will do and record results, I thought as being late to the party there might have been some information already out there that someone might have a reference to :p
225 2015-10-07T06:16:22 <paveljanik> it is usually done in a different way though - bitcoind as a gateway to the network. Another DB level above it.
226 2015-10-07T06:16:47 <hardyred> paveljanik: right, I believe most services import the blockchain to a db and then search it from there
227 2015-10-07T06:16:53 <aj> paveljanik: "another db level above it" -- as in pull the block/txn info out of bitcoin once, put that in a db, and query the db?
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230 2015-10-07T06:17:42 <hardyred> Hey there sorry I was disconnected for a second paveljanik
231 2015-10-07T06:17:46 <paveljanik> aj, this way or memcached level above it etc.
232 2015-10-07T06:18:49 <aj> paveljanik: *nod* makes sense
233 2015-10-07T06:20:12 <paveljanik> but I'd me very intereste in testing our RPC interface under such orkload directly.
234 2015-10-07T06:20:13 <paveljanik> :-)
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236 2015-10-07T06:20:39 <paveljanik> ... I'd be very interested in...
237 2015-10-07T06:20:54 <hardyred> paveljanik: I got nothing to do on thursday, I will run some benchmark tests and document how it does
238 2015-10-07T06:21:24 <paveljanik> plese try bitcoin from master with libevent based web server...
239 2015-10-07T06:22:09 <paveljanik> and test different values of rpcthreads
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244 2015-10-07T06:45:25 <paveljanik> back to the large mempool now - looks like another "stress test" and none noticed it yet... ;-)
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294 2015-10-07T08:22:08 <smellymoo> hey guys. I am making a VPN provider that only accepts bitcoin. I would like to know if it is possible to use bitcoind in "prune mode" to only notify me of valid transactions to certain addresses?
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297 2015-10-07T08:25:59 <smellymoo> the way I see it, prune mode verifies the POW chain (by only keeping the last 2) and stops double spend by keeping addresses that have an amount of bitcoin, and tracking that. rather than storing the ledger. right? so if bitcoind is in prune, it can notify you of all transactions as they get mined into a block, but not of previous transactions right?
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305 2015-10-07T08:36:56 <btcdrak> well amongst the noise, someone posted an absolutely gem to the mailing list: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-October/011457.html
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308 2015-10-07T08:43:36 <smellymoo> nice btcdrak :)
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318 2015-10-07T08:53:47 <smellymoo> any info? prune mode of bitcoind still allows you to listen (by an other program) to all valid new transactions to certain addresses, right? (can't see why it wouldn't).
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332 2015-10-07T09:51:00 <dcousens> bah
333 2015-10-07T09:51:34 <smellymoo> wow, is like anyone actually here?
334 2015-10-07T09:51:45 <dcousens> haha
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336 2015-10-07T09:55:56 <stonecoldpat> smellymoo: according to release notes, it keeps the previous 288 blocks (2 days worth), so it will let you know about new transactions, but wallet functions are disabled by default (according to July release statement)
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340 2015-10-07T09:57:09 <smellymoo> stonecoldpat, thanks :). I read that, I am just verifying. so if I use it in prune, I will be fine to check the last few blocks, great!
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342 2015-10-07T09:58:07 <smellymoo> stonecoldpat, so final question... if you want to implement a client, with a pre-downloaded copy of the pruned block-chain, that would work right?
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345 2015-10-07T10:01:08 <stonecoldpat> smellymoo: what do you mean by client? it depends on your assumptions i guess, the idea for a pruned node is to 1) download everything and 2) discard what it no longer needs, if you already supply the fully pruned node, then the receiver needs to trust that the first step happened.
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349 2015-10-07T10:09:28 <smellymoo> well, just copy the directory that has a full sych then pruned, into another bitcoind folder.
350 2015-10-07T10:09:38 <smellymoo> I mean the folder that keeps the index.
351 2015-10-07T10:10:34 <stonecoldpat> i dont see why it wouldnt work (ive never tried)
352 2015-10-07T10:12:02 <smellymoo> so all the archive of the chain is in one dir, if I make a copy of that, then place it in a new one, it will by syched up until the new point, with no download. Think that should work.
353 2015-10-07T10:13:58 <stonecoldpat> give it a shot and let me know :) if you copy the blockchain, chainstate and database files it should be okay
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357 2015-10-07T10:20:27 <smellymoo> thanks mate :)
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373 2015-10-07T10:52:55 <ThomasKeller> I have just subscribed to the bitcoin-dev mailing list
374 2015-10-07T10:53:10 <ThomasKeller> most of the emails in the list are sent by somebody named Venzen Khaosan, who keeps insulting people
375 2015-10-07T10:53:17 <ThomasKeller> who is this person and why is he so rude ?
376 2015-10-07T10:54:09 <ThomasKeller> is this normal tone in the list ?
377 2015-10-07T10:54:28 *** erasmospunk has joined #bitcoin-dev
378 2015-10-07T10:55:37 <stonecoldpat> ThomasKeller: its not normal. generally most of the topics talk about research or development for bitcoin, just lately its getting the wrong attention
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380 2015-10-07T11:11:06 <midnightmagic> Geez. What's with the huge noise ratio on the dev list.
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400 2015-10-07T11:45:41 <btcdrak> trolling for review/ACKs on "Softfork Units" https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6747
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402 2015-10-07T11:47:40 <btcdrak> ThomasKeller, it will all change soon once we get bitcoin-discuss setup.
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471 2015-10-07T14:16:42 <ThomasV> !seen schildbach
472 2015-10-07T14:16:43 <gribble> I have not seen schildbach.
473 2015-10-07T14:16:47 <ThomasV> !seen aschildbach
474 2015-10-07T14:16:48 <gribble> aschildbach was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 11 weeks, 6 days, 3 hours, 40 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <aschildbach> How's the TOA?
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640 2015-10-07T17:34:53 <OxADADA> is there documentation surrounding the decision to hash the proof-of-work with SHA256d instead of vanilla SHA256?
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642 2015-10-07T17:40:19 <Luke-Jr> OxADADA: before or after the fact? :P
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644 2015-10-07T17:41:01 <OxADADA> Luke-Jr: either, i'm just curious what properties of d are better than vanilla SHA256
645 2015-10-07T17:42:29 <Luke-Jr> miners have effectively reduced SHA256d down to a single SHA256 at this point, so yes
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651 2015-10-07T17:49:40 <OxADADA> Luke-Jr: so Yes: SHA256d is in-practice no better a choice than SHA256.
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653 2015-10-07T17:52:15 <Luke-Jr> OxADADA: no, because if it had been just one SHA256, it'd be nothing left
654 2015-10-07T17:52:47 <OxADADA> Luke-Jr: so search space is much larger.
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671 2015-10-07T18:28:18 <berndj> Luke-Jr, wait, wat? i know you can skip or reduce the last 5 rounds or so, but reducing sha256d to sha256??
672 2015-10-07T18:28:36 <Luke-Jr> berndj: also remove the start with midstate
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674 2015-10-07T18:28:53 <Luke-Jr> so you skip half the first one, and half the last one
675 2015-10-07T18:28:57 <Luke-Jr> approx
676 2015-10-07T18:28:58 <berndj> Luke-Jr, oh, but starting from midstate you still have to do 128 rounds
677 2015-10-07T18:29:09 <berndj> but ok, i see what you meant now
678 2015-10-07T18:29:34 <Luke-Jr> not a literal reduction
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795 2015-10-07T20:50:36 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, uhhh not really
796 2015-10-07T20:51:28 <phantomcircuit> it's more like 1.25 sha256 ops worth of work
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878 2015-10-07T23:18:31 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: pedantic :
879 2015-10-07T23:19:05 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, you can only get rid of about 15% of the sha256 logic by optimizing for bitcoin :)
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882 2015-10-07T23:21:04 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: I can't argue further due to confidentiality I think.
883 2015-10-07T23:22:02 * phantomcircuit goes back to look at the logic
884 2015-10-07T23:22:03 <phantomcircuit> :)
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898 2015-10-07T23:43:21 <nwilcox> phantomcircuit: Maybe I'm missing context. I'm surprised at the 15% figure for optimizing sha256 for bitcoin.
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900 2015-10-07T23:43:45 <nwilcox> How did you calculate that?
901 2015-10-07T23:44:02 <phantomcircuit> nwilcox, sha256 produces a 256 bit output.... but for bitcoin mining you only care about 32 bits of that
902 2015-10-07T23:44:11 <phantomcircuit> 32 bits of zero == diff1
903 2015-10-07T23:44:29 <phantomcircuit> (ok maybe you care about 64 bits still)
904 2015-10-07T23:44:43 <nwilcox> phantomcircuit: Oh neat. I was only thinking of the input side.
905 2015-10-07T23:44:56 <phantomcircuit> nwilcox, there's also some stuff on the input size
906 2015-10-07T23:45:15 <nwilcox> I'm still a bit skeptical. Do you mean 15% of the area of an IC implementation?
907 2015-10-07T23:45:16 <phantomcircuit> sha256 blocksize is 512 bits and in bitcoin we only ever use the first half
908 2015-10-07T23:45:27 <phantomcircuit> so the second half is constant and you can precompute that
909 2015-10-07T23:45:32 <phantomcircuit> nwilcox, yeah
910 2015-10-07T23:45:39 <nwilcox> Should most of the area be consumed by unrolling the rounds, little of which can be omitted?
911 2015-10-07T23:46:12 <nwilcox> Omitting output bits seems like it would mostly remove the finalization phase.
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913 2015-10-07T23:46:33 <nwilcox> (I could easily be wrong, I'm not an expert at either understanding hash implementations *nor* circuit design. ;-)
914 2015-10-07T23:46:38 <phantomcircuit> nwilcox, yup but because of how sha256 works being able to fix a full half of the inputs and ~85% of the outputs you can do lots of optimization
915 2015-10-07T23:47:10 <phantomcircuit> nwilcox, there's no finalization round in sha256, each of the rounds is identical
916 2015-10-07T23:48:48 <nwilcox> Ah, ok.
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