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190 2015-11-01T09:11:50  <jtimon> ping 6068...
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264 2015-11-01T13:54:39  <bitcoin-dev825> How can I decode the "hex" field to an address in "scriptPubKey" from a raw transaction?
265 2015-11-01T13:59:39  <afk11> bitcoin-dev825: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script see the bottom.
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267 2015-11-01T14:09:16  <bitcoin-dev825> afk11: specifically where? It says http://www.righto.com/2014/02/bitcoins-hard-way-using-raw-bitcoin.html here "It contains the destination address expressed in hex, not Base58Check" but having trouble decoding it to an address
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269 2015-11-01T14:10:56  <afk11> ok. Avoid thinking of things in hex it means binary. You see the part that says 'public key hash' underneath the line you pasted?
270 2015-11-01T14:12:05  <afk11> Well, addresses consist of a hash, a prefix (indicating what type of address it is) and a checksum. You have pay-to-pubkey-hash, or pay-to-script-hash addresses.
271 2015-11-01T14:13:51  <bitcoin-dev825> Right, i see, I can tell what type it is from "type" : "scripthash"
272 2015-11-01T14:14:44  <afk11> Going from Address to Script involves validating the address, determining which address type it is based on the first byte, taking the hash from the address (20 bytes of binary), and constructing the necessary output script for that type
273 2015-11-01T14:16:25  <afk11> But for the reverse - just classify the script, if it's either of the two types, just extract the hash and rebuild the address.
274 2015-11-01T14:17:13  <bitcoin-dev825> is the hash that last 20 bytes ?
275 2015-11-01T14:18:38  <bitcoin-dev825> or is the "hex" field the hash? Still a little confused
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278 2015-11-01T14:21:23  <afk11> the hash is embedded in the script. See sections on this page: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction#Types_of_Transaction
279 2015-11-01T14:23:21  <afk11> the hash is only one part of these scripts. ScriptPubKey.hex != the hash. But since you're probably looking at bitcoind, does hash160 come up for pay-to-script-hash outputs?
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299 2015-11-01T14:57:09  <bitcoin-dev825> afk11: sorry, this is what I'm looking at. http://pastebin.com/91dG58aR from decoderawtransaction - the "hex" field
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311 2015-11-01T15:20:07  <freemason> i buy 666 bit
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316 2015-11-01T15:23:05  <jaromil> jtimon: pong 6068...
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322 2015-11-01T15:33:25  <afk11> bitcoin-dev825: the hash in the case you posted is the 'asm' value starting with 18. Look in the hex for where that starts. hint: after 0x14, which in decimal is 20...
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389 2015-11-01T17:38:06  <cryptohustlin> Anyone familiar with mongoDB?
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417 2015-11-01T18:26:17  <Luke-Jr> is it just me, or is BIP 113 a hardfork deployed as a softfork? :|
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423 2015-11-01T18:36:55  <sipa> Luke-Jr: hmm!
424 2015-11-01T18:37:07  <sipa> Luke-Jr: i'm inclined to think you are right
425 2015-11-01T18:37:44  <sipa> a transaction whose timestamp is between blocktime and blockmedianpasttime will be accepted past bip113, and not accepted before
426 2015-11-01T18:38:35  <Luke-Jr> I can't think of a way to fix this.
427 2015-11-01T18:39:17  <Luke-Jr> without destroying the usefulness
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430 2015-11-01T18:42:11  <rusty> sipa: can't it be fixed statistically, by adding 12 hours to blockmeadianpasttime for the comparison?
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432 2015-11-01T18:44:36  <sipa> rusty: that would mean that a 12 hour interval between two blocks could result in an irreconcilable fork?
433 2015-11-01T18:44:44  <sipa> rusty: not sure that is acceptable
434 2015-11-01T18:44:51  <rusty> sipa: as I said, "statistically" avoided :)
435 2015-11-01T18:45:07  <sipa> rusty: worst cases matter, not averages :)
436 2015-11-01T18:45:24  <rusty> sipa: at some offset, the tradeoff may become acceptable.
437 2015-11-01T18:45:53  <sipa> i don't think a miner-triggerable condition that forks the network is acceptable under any condition
438 2015-11-01T18:45:56  <rusty> sipa: you could soft fork in a requirement that blocks be < some value apart.
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440 2015-11-01T18:46:39  <sipa> rusty: that's even scarier...
441 2015-11-01T18:47:03  <rusty> sipa: not really, you're always allowed to produce blocks in the past.
442 2015-11-01T18:47:25  <sipa> fair enough
443 2015-11-01T18:47:49  <sipa> though it interferes with the network's ability to adjust difficulty correctly
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445 2015-11-01T18:49:09  <rusty> sipa: not as much as the factor of 4 clamp does, in the case where we're producing one block every 12 hours!
446 2015-11-01T18:49:28  <sipa> yes, they're all edge cases
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450 2015-11-01T18:51:50  <rusty> sipa: 12 hours gives a 0.99999385 prob of finding a block.  Over 100 years, that's almost certain to happen though.  Need more than 12 hours then.
451 2015-11-01T18:52:39  <sipa> rusty: i don't care about averages :)
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453 2015-11-01T18:53:06  <Luke-Jr> would it screw up difficulty that much, if the subsequent miners continued to pull it forward until it caught up?
454 2015-11-01T18:53:09  <sipa> rusty: if mining was purely random, you would be right
455 2015-11-01T18:53:19  <rusty> sipa: but yeah, it's a mess.  Luke-Jr, nice spotting.
456 2015-11-01T18:53:22  <sipa> rusty: but mining is controlled by economic incentives
457 2015-11-01T18:53:49  <sipa> you could use std::max(nBlockTime, GetMedianTimePast() + 12 hours) or so
458 2015-11-01T18:54:30  <Luke-Jr> not sure that solves the problems BIP 113 wants to solve
459 2015-11-01T18:54:54  <Luke-Jr> hm, maybe
460 2015-11-01T18:55:38  <Luke-Jr> in the meantime, we have merged mempool-only BIP 113. is this going to create invalid blocks?
461 2015-11-01T18:55:45  <sipa> no
462 2015-11-01T18:55:52  <sipa> oh, it could
463 2015-11-01T18:55:54  <rusty> Luke-Jr: yes.
464 2015-11-01T18:55:59  <sipa> we should revert
465 2015-11-01T18:56:05  <Luke-Jr> except for the validity check in GBT I guess
466 2015-11-01T18:56:07  <sipa> Luke-Jr: can you comment on the PR?
467 2015-11-01T18:56:14  <Luke-Jr> yeah
468 2015-11-01T18:56:22  <rusty> "this bitcoin stuff is hard"
469 2015-11-01T18:56:51  <sipa> using std::max(nBlockTime, GetMedianTimePast() + 12 hours) will under non-adverserial conditions solve the problem in 0.99999385% of the cases :)
470 2015-11-01T18:57:22  <sipa> and in other cases degenerate into current behaviour
471 2015-11-01T18:57:30  <sipa> without forking
472 2015-11-01T18:58:05  <rusty> sipa: note that I pulled the 12 hour number out of my nether regions.  There may be a better value...
473 2015-11-01T18:58:22  <sipa> of course
474 2015-11-01T18:58:59  <Luke-Jr> (I'm glad this isn't the same 'softfork' hearn was saying "should be" a hardfork..)
475 2015-11-01T19:01:36  <rusty> Luke-Jr: it's a hardfork conspiracy!
476 2015-11-01T19:02:06  * Luke-Jr writes up a dev ML notice too
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478 2015-11-01T19:02:52  <jtimon> wumpus: ping #6068, should I rebase or close ?
479 2015-11-01T19:08:34  <jtimon> re bip113 well, I think the "simplest" solution then it's deploy it as a hardfork, it's still something uncontroversial
480 2015-11-01T19:09:03  <jtimon> that may delay it's deployment though
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484 2015-11-01T19:18:13  <gmaxwell> I just tuned into the channel to suggest what sipa was wuggesting with the max().
485 2015-11-01T19:18:52  <gmaxwell> but thats a little unfortunate because it does slide the times people are using further out.
486 2015-11-01T19:19:26  <sipa> well you can use max(blocktime, getmediantimepast() + 1 hour), which on average has very little effect
487 2015-11-01T19:19:36  <Luke-Jr> well, we could alternatively redefine nLockTime to use epoch different by 86400 :P
488 2015-11-01T19:19:51  <sipa> but it will in 50% of the cases fail to result in bip113's intended goal
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490 2015-11-01T19:21:26  <gmaxwell> yea, I was thinking 1 hour but thinking that it will have the effect of not ending sniping.
491 2015-11-01T19:22:16  <Luke-Jr> brb
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493 2015-11-01T19:23:50  <gmaxwell> jtimon: 113 is a very mild improvement, as a hardfork it is not worth doing at all.
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497 2015-11-01T19:28:37  <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: well, could throw it in with some other hardfork
498 2015-11-01T19:31:30  <rusty> I'd prefer we produce a scale of impact, rather than simplifying to hard vs soft forks.  ie. who gets effected, and how badly.
499 2015-11-01T19:31:36  <gmaxwell> It would need to be 12 or 24 hours;  +1hour as the property that realtime+2 hours almost always snipes.
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501 2015-11-01T19:32:58  <gmaxwell> Fine. It is not worth a flag day update where every developer of bitcoin node software and every user of  bitcoin node software must update their software or no longer participate on the network.
502 2015-11-01T19:33:26  <gmaxwell> Enforcement of lowS nearly ended armory.
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506 2015-11-01T19:37:14  <Lightsword> gmaxwell, any insight into what’s been going on with armory? They dropped OSX support on a bug fix release even…which seems a bit crazy since it doesn’t look like they even changed any of the dependencies, I was able to get it to compile at least with a few minor tweaks to the build system and PR’d those.
507 2015-11-01T19:38:02  <Luke-Jr> it's hard to build for OS X without using OS X :/
508 2015-11-01T19:38:12  <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, that was my guess....
509 2015-11-01T19:38:28  <gmaxwell> Lightsword: my understanding was that it was almost unusable on OSX in any case?
510 2015-11-01T19:38:29  <Lightsword> but you would think they would have access to at least one OSX box
511 2015-11-01T19:38:44  <Lightsword> gmaxwell, I haven’t really had any issues with it
512 2015-11-01T19:38:54  * Lightsword uses OSX as primary OS
513 2015-11-01T19:39:09  <gmaxwell> Lightsword: ah, I'd heard reports that parts of the UI were unclickable and such, or displayed impossibly small, on OSX.
514 2015-11-01T19:39:22  <jtimon> gmaxwell: I was assuming putting it with other small improvements or schedule it far away in the future
515 2015-11-01T19:39:35  <Lightsword> gmaxwell, some of the earlier releases had been a little buggy but nothing all that bad
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518 2015-11-01T19:40:06  <gmaxwell> jtimon: the motiviation for doing it now, however, is that MTP will change the times people are using on transactions, which has an influence on how CLTV applications are constructed.
519 2015-11-01T19:40:07  <Lightsword> 0.93.2 was fine for the most part until we hit the Low-S issue
520 2015-11-01T19:40:21  <Lightsword> 0.93.3 that I compiled myself also seems to be ok
521 2015-11-01T19:41:30  <gmaxwell> Lightsword: In any case, I don't really have much insight that the public doesn't. People are not spending time maintaining it.  I'd offered them to fix their lowS behavior myself, but they said they had a release in the works.  Really the lowS fix itself is probably less work for them than producing a release.
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523 2015-11-01T19:42:05  <jtimon> gmaxwell: I see, by the time you could deploy it, the CLTV, CSV related software will already be made to work without it and it won't be worth it
524 2015-11-01T19:42:20  <gmaxwell> jtimon: what? no
525 2015-11-01T19:42:27  <jtimon> does bip68/112 depend on bip113 ?
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527 2015-11-01T19:42:45  <gmaxwell> no. they have nothing to do with it.
528 2015-11-01T19:43:02  <sipa> bip68 does
529 2015-11-01T19:43:12  <sipa> bip112 does not
530 2015-11-01T19:43:44  <jtimon> well, the way I see it bip112 depends on bip68, so...
531 2015-11-01T19:44:22  <gmaxwell> oh I forget that 68 also supported relative time.
532 2015-11-01T19:44:26  <Lightsword> gmaxwell, yeah, sounds like they just haven’t been keeping up on doing releases, I think they have been mainly focusing on enterprise work, are there any decent high-security HD full node wallets other than armory at this point?
533 2015-11-01T19:44:35  <gmaxwell> In any case the "dependency" isn't real.
534 2015-11-01T19:45:29  <gmaxwell> jtimon: Software can't "be made to work without it"; it's an incentives problem for miners that you can't simply work around.
535 2015-11-01T19:45:33  <jtimon> the question is rather, even if we forget about bip113 completely, we can just move on with bip68/112, right?
536 2015-11-01T19:45:56  <gmaxwell> if time based locktimes are widely used, and there are lots of fees to be collected in mining them, miners are constantly incentivized to push their time forward to pick them up.
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538 2015-11-01T19:46:49  <jtimon> gmaxwell: oh, yeah, I remember now. then I don't see why it couldn't eventually be deployed as a hardfork...
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540 2015-11-01T19:47:30  <gmaxwell> jtimon: yes, it's not 'needed' for 68/112's operation.  But it is needed for the health of the network in the presence of widespread time based locktime use; and it's much easier to deploy a MTP fix when there isn't yet widespread locktime use, because it will require changes to locktime user behavior.
541 2015-11-01T19:48:32  <jtimon> yeah, that's what I meant earlier, minus it will always be worth it (just much more costly)
542 2015-11-01T19:48:40  <gmaxwell> jtimon: because unless severely bad things are happening already it would be hard to justify flagdaying all the deployed stuff.  (which may, e.g. include HSMs that cannot be updated but must be replaced and all kinds of other fun things)
543 2015-11-01T19:50:30  <jtimon> so what you are saying is that either the problem gets fixed soon as a softfork or will likely never be solved ?
544 2015-11-01T19:51:07  <gmaxwell> No, I'm saying that it needs to be fixed soon as a soft fork or the eventual solving will be disruptive, and may involve funds loss for people.
545 2015-11-01T19:51:37  <jtimon> ok, gotcha, thanks
546 2015-11-01T19:52:00  <gmaxwell> or actually, that it needs to be addressed in IsStandard soon, or the eventual fix will increase in its disruptiveness as adoption of CLTV increases.
547 2015-11-01T19:52:17  <gmaxwell> but that can't be done if we don't know the eventual behavior.
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549 2015-11-01T19:55:13  <gmaxwell> in any case, I don't see any real option for the moment except to back out that change.
550 2015-11-01T19:55:40  <jtimon> yep, I was just wondering, what to do after that
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552 2015-11-01T19:56:05  <gmaxwell> I think we should do the +N hours max offset thing but it deserves more consideration than a few minutes impression.
553 2015-11-01T19:57:26  <btcdrak> ouch, nice catch Luke-Jr!
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