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79 2015-11-07T03:37:35 <Lightsword> Iâve been noticing the more uptime my pools node has the slower GBT is getting in relation to other pools, Iâve been using this tool to monitor block change times http://poolbench.antminer.link/ any idea what the cause of that would be?
80 2015-11-07T03:39:02 *** stapler117 has joined #bitcoin-dev
81 2015-11-07T03:41:34 <jtoomim> lightsword yes, i've seen that before too
82 2015-11-07T03:41:49 <Lightsword> any idea what causes it?
83 2015-11-07T03:41:55 <jtoomim> i know that mempool size affects GBT time strongly
84 2015-11-07T03:42:13 <Lightsword> doesnât seem to be that, Iâm already running .0001 as relay fee
85 2015-11-07T03:42:14 <jtoomim> i haven't seen any cases in which GBT latency was clearly related to operating time and not to mempool
86 2015-11-07T03:42:28 <jtoomim> run bitcoin-cli getmempoolinfo
87 2015-11-07T03:42:36 <jtoomim> don't assume, measure
88 2015-11-07T03:43:03 <Lightsword> "size" : 846,
89 2015-11-07T03:43:11 <jtoomim> how many bytes?
90 2015-11-07T03:43:16 <Lightsword> "currentblocksize" : 164910,
91 2015-11-07T03:43:24 <Lightsword> "bytes" : 6451433
92 2015-11-07T03:43:42 <jtoomim> so your mempool has 6.4 MB of transactions in it
93 2015-11-07T03:43:59 <jtoomim> and that's the serialized size
94 2015-11-07T03:44:06 <jtoomim> so enough for 6.4 full blocks
95 2015-11-07T03:44:17 <jtoomim> in-memory size is probably about 16 MB
96 2015-11-07T03:44:31 <Lightsword> now Iâm a bit confused, why is that different from getmininginfo
97 2015-11-07T03:44:34 <jtoomim> that's fairly large
98 2015-11-07T03:45:30 <jtoomim> why is getmempoolinfo different from getmininginfo?
99 2015-11-07T03:45:38 <jtoomim> ... because it's a different RPC with a different purpose?
100 2015-11-07T03:46:13 <jtoomim> CNB has a nested loop in the beginning that iterates over each input of each transaction in the mempool
101 2015-11-07T03:46:22 <Lightsword> I mean, why wouldnât those transactions be in "currentblocksize" : 225246,
102 2015-11-07T03:46:29 <jtoomim> that loop is used to sort transactions according to priority and to find chains
103 2015-11-07T03:46:36 <jtoomim> that loop is slow if your mempool is large
104 2015-11-07T03:47:01 <jtoomim> maybe a bug?
105 2015-11-07T03:47:18 <jtoomim> maybe your mintxfee is higher than your minrelaytxfee?
106 2015-11-07T03:47:18 <Lightsword> thatâs my guess
107 2015-11-07T03:47:58 <Lightsword> my mintxfee is default
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109 2015-11-07T03:48:02 <jtoomim> you could run getrawmempoolinfo and try to figure out what transactions there are that would not be allowed into a block
110 2015-11-07T03:48:15 <jtoomim> oops
111 2015-11-07T03:48:20 <jtoomim> i think it's getrawmempool
112 2015-11-07T03:48:26 <jtoomim> or getmempoolraw
113 2015-11-07T03:48:46 <jtoomim> it's getrawmempool
114 2015-11-07T03:49:32 <Lightsword> yeah, any idea how I would analyze it?
115 2015-11-07T03:49:37 <jtoomim> i don't know of any tools that would help you sort through it, no
116 2015-11-07T03:50:30 <jtoomim> it gives you a list of transaction hashes, iirc
117 2015-11-07T03:50:50 <jtoomim> so you can take those transactions and enter them into blockexplorer.com
118 2015-11-07T03:51:08 <jtoomim> (don't use blockchain.info, they don't keep unconfirmed txs for very long)
119 2015-11-07T03:51:27 <jtoomim> as for doing it programmatically, i don't know of a good method
120 2015-11-07T03:51:28 <Lightsword> so the weird thing is that "size" : 1696, from getmempool info is close to "pooledtx" : 1706, in getmininginfo
121 2015-11-07T03:52:02 <Lightsword> but the size is way different "currentblocksize" : 473630, "bytes" : 6934459
122 2015-11-07T03:52:52 <jtoomim> right
123 2015-11-07T03:53:00 <Lightsword> which makes no sense
124 2015-11-07T03:53:12 <jtoomim> so i'm guessing somehow you've gotten txns into your mempool that createnewblock is excluding for some reason
125 2015-11-07T03:53:16 <Lightsword> itâs well below 1MB
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128 2015-11-07T03:54:49 <jtoomim> by the way, p2pool generates nice GBT latency graphs
129 2015-11-07T03:55:07 <jtoomim> e.g. http://74.82.233.205:9332/static/graphs.html?week at the bottom
130 2015-11-07T03:55:34 <Lightsword> what do you see under getmininginfo?
131 2015-11-07T03:55:37 <jtoomim> it doesn't have getmempoolinfo graphs, unfortunately
132 2015-11-07T03:55:38 <Lightsword> does it match for you?
133 2015-11-07T03:56:35 <jtoomim> jtoomim@feather:~$ echo `dev/bitcoin/bitcoinxt/src/bitcoin-cli getmempoolinfo`
134 2015-11-07T03:56:35 <jtoomim> { "size" : 46329, "bytes" : 621343752 }
135 2015-11-07T03:56:36 <jtoomim> jtoomim@feather:~$ dev/bitcoin/bitcoinxt/src/bitcoin-cli getmininginfo
136 2015-11-07T03:56:39 <jtoomim> {
137 2015-11-07T03:56:40 <jtoomim> "blocks" : 382401,
138 2015-11-07T03:56:42 <jtoomim> "currentblocksize" : 989879,
139 2015-11-07T03:56:44 <jtoomim> "currentblocktx" : 1622,
140 2015-11-07T03:56:46 <jtoomim> "difficulty" : 62253982449.76081848,
141 2015-11-07T03:56:48 <jtoomim> "errors" : "",
142 2015-11-07T03:56:50 <jtoomim> "genproclimit" : -1,
143 2015-11-07T03:56:52 <jtoomim> "networkhashps" : 460138931505464320,
144 2015-11-07T03:56:54 <jtoomim> "pooledtx" : 46356,
145 2015-11-07T03:56:56 <jtoomim> "testnet" : false,
146 2015-11-07T03:56:58 <jtoomim> "chain" : "main",
147 2015-11-07T03:57:00 <jtoomim> "generate" : false
148 2015-11-07T03:57:02 <jtoomim> }
149 2015-11-07T03:57:04 <jtoomim> that's on one of my test nodes, not a mining node
150 2015-11-07T03:57:06 <jtoomim> obviously, i don't mine with a 600 MB mempool intentionally
151 2015-11-07T03:57:35 <Lightsword> hmm, would be more interesting to see from a node with minrelay at 0.0001 if you have one
152 2015-11-07T03:57:41 <jtoomim> no, i don't
153 2015-11-07T03:58:09 <jtoomim> i try not to mine small blocks when there are transactions in mempool that i consider to not be intentional spam
154 2015-11-07T03:58:12 <Lightsword> since getmininginfo current blocksize maxes at 1MB it is hard to do a comparison with it
155 2015-11-07T03:58:16 <jtoomim> i consider doing so to be antisocial behavior
156 2015-11-07T03:58:54 <Lightsword> I was restricting it because of the high GBT latency
157 2015-11-07T03:59:17 <jtoomim> ./bitcoin-cli stop; sleep 3; ./bitcoind -daemon
158 2015-11-07T04:00:20 <Lightsword> you can add daemon=1 to bitcoin.conf so you donât have to do -daemon when starting bitcoind
159 2015-11-07T04:00:38 <jtoomim> i suppose you can
160 2015-11-07T04:00:58 <jtoomim> i guess i used to test it as a non-daemon a lot, so i forgot
161 2015-11-07T04:02:08 <jtoomim> before you do that, though, you should log your getrawmempool
162 2015-11-07T04:04:04 <jtoomim> my guess is that you have free relay enabled
163 2015-11-07T04:04:13 <jtoomim> and you're probably getting a slow trickle of transactions through free relay
164 2015-11-07T04:04:27 <jtoomim> but which aren't getting evicted, because you don't have an eviction policy set up
165 2015-11-07T04:04:41 <jtoomim> and which aren't getting mined by you or by other pools
166 2015-11-07T04:05:31 <jtoomim> probably because there are other transactions that other pools are putting at a higher priority (based on bitcoin days destroyed, or dPriority) that you're not seeing
167 2015-11-07T04:05:43 <Lightsword> how do you disable free relay?
168 2015-11-07T04:08:08 <jtoomim> limitfreerelay=0, i think
169 2015-11-07T04:08:15 <jtoomim> but i'm not seeing that in the command line help
170 2015-11-07T04:08:44 <jtoomim> it's in main.cpp around line 1146
171 2015-11-07T04:08:46 <jtoomim> static int64_t nFreeLimit = GetArg("-limitfreerelay", 15);
172 2015-11-07T04:09:04 <jtoomim> // At default rate it would take over a month to fill 1GB
173 2015-11-07T04:09:04 <jtoomim> if (RateLimitExceeded(dFreeCount, nLastFreeTime, nFreeLimit, nSize))
174 2015-11-07T04:09:04 <jtoomim> return state.DoS(0, error("AcceptToMemoryPool : free transaction rejected by rate limiter"),
175 2015-11-07T04:09:06 <jtoomim> REJECT_INSUFFICIENTFEE, "rate limited free transaction");
176 2015-11-07T04:09:08 <jtoomim> LogPrint("mempool", "Rate limit dFreeCount: %g => %g\n", dFreeCount, dFreeCount+nSize);
177 2015-11-07T04:09:10 <jtoomim> ]
178 2015-11-07T04:10:42 <jtoomim> // Exponentially limit the rate of nSize flow to nLimit. nLimit unit is thousands-per-minute.
179 2015-11-07T04:10:42 <jtoomim> bool RateLimitExceeded(double& dCount, int64_t& nLastTime, int64_t nLimit, unsigned int nSize)
180 2015-11-07T04:10:42 <jtoomim> {
181 2015-11-07T04:10:44 <jtoomim> static CCriticalSection csLimiter;
182 2015-11-07T04:10:46 <jtoomim> int64_t nNow = GetTime();
183 2015-11-07T04:10:48 <jtoomim> LOCK(csLimiter);
184 2015-11-07T04:10:50 <jtoomim> dCount *= pow(1.0 - 1.0/600.0, (double)(nNow - nLastTime));
185 2015-11-07T04:10:52 <jtoomim> nLastTime = nNow;
186 2015-11-07T04:10:54 <jtoomim> if (dCount >= nLimit*10*1000)
187 2015-11-07T04:10:56 <jtoomim> return true;
188 2015-11-07T04:10:58 <jtoomim> dCount += nSize;
189 2015-11-07T04:11:00 <jtoomim> return fals
190 2015-11-07T04:12:14 <Lightsword> wondering why those wouldnât get minedâ¦.the fee filter happens before the trasaction even gets to the mempool right?
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192 2015-11-07T04:13:25 <Lightsword> restarted my node
193 2015-11-07T04:14:15 <jtoomim> // Skip free transactions if we're past the minimum block size:
194 2015-11-07T04:14:15 <jtoomim> const uint256& hash = tx.GetHash();
195 2015-11-07T04:14:15 <jtoomim> double dPriorityDelta = 0;
196 2015-11-07T04:14:17 <jtoomim> CAmount nFeeDelta = 0;
197 2015-11-07T04:14:19 <jtoomim> mempool.ApplyDeltas(hash, dPriorityDelta, nFeeDelta);
198 2015-11-07T04:14:21 <jtoomim> if (fSortedByFee && (dPriorityDelta <= 0) && (nFeeDelta <= 0) && (feeRate < ::minRelayTxFee) && (nBlockSize + nTxSize >= nBlockMinSize))
199 2015-11-07T04:14:23 <jtoomim> continue;
200 2015-11-07T04:14:25 <jtoomim> that's in CreateNewBlock
201 2015-11-07T04:14:27 <Lightsword> on restart getmempoolinfo is consistant with getmininginfo
202 2015-11-07T04:14:35 <jtoomim> so it checks to see if the fee is less than ::minRelayTxFee
203 2015-11-07T04:14:37 <Lightsword> my guess is there is a memory leak
204 2015-11-07T04:14:39 <jtoomim> which is weird
205 2015-11-07T04:14:57 <jtoomim> because it should check against mintxfee, not minrelaytxfee, i think
206 2015-11-07T04:16:06 <jtoomim> oh, never mind
207 2015-11-07T04:16:10 <jtoomim> i misunderstood mintxfee
208 2015-11-07T04:16:12 <jtoomim> strUsage += HelpMessageOpt("-mintxfee=<amt>", strprintf("Fees (in BTC/Kb) smaller than this are considered zero fee for transaction creation (default: %s)",
209 2015-11-07T04:16:36 <jtoomim> it's just a wallet setting
210 2015-11-07T04:16:40 <Lightsword> Iâm going to try running with limitfreerelay=0
211 2015-11-07T04:17:51 <jtoomim> the issue is that this check in CreateNewBlock for (feeRate < ::minRelayTxFee) happens after some of the performance bottlenecks of CreateNewBlock
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213 2015-11-07T04:18:25 <jtoomim> so you had a few large low-fee tx in your mempool that were getting processed by CNB and ultimately rejected
214 2015-11-07T04:19:17 <Lightsword> so could that be the memory leak?
215 2015-11-07T04:19:24 <jtoomim> it's not a memory leak
216 2015-11-07T04:19:34 <jtoomim> as far as i can tell, the software is running as designed
217 2015-11-07T04:19:45 <jtoomim> it's just not designed the way you thought it was
218 2015-11-07T04:19:47 <Lightsword> are they removed from the mempool at that time?
219 2015-11-07T04:19:53 <jtoomim> and also not designed as well as it could have been
220 2015-11-07T04:20:23 <jtoomim> unless you're running a version with mempool eviction, the transactions will never be removed from the mempool unless they are mined or otherwise invalidated
221 2015-11-07T04:20:45 <jtoomim> we have about 600 MB of transactions floating around right now that were first broadcast on october 7th
222 2015-11-07T04:20:51 <jtoomim> these transactions are 14790 bytes long
223 2015-11-07T04:20:55 <jtoomim> and annoying as hell
224 2015-11-07T04:21:20 <jtoomim> sorry, i should have said "at least 600 MB" not "about"
225 2015-11-07T04:21:20 <Lightsword> so could they be getting invalidated in a way that causes a memory leak?
226 2015-11-07T04:21:40 <jtoomim> i did a lot of testing earlier to see if there were any memory leaks
227 2015-11-07T04:21:46 <jtoomim> and there are no memory leaks that i could find
228 2015-11-07T04:22:00 <jtoomim> if getmempoolinfo is showing the transactions, they're not getting leaked
229 2015-11-07T04:22:25 <jtoomim> also, a memory leak would not cause GBT times to get slow like this
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231 2015-11-07T04:22:58 <jtoomim> since for it to slow down GBT, the transactions must be processed by GBT/CNB, which means they are still accessible
232 2015-11-07T04:23:05 <Lightsword> the transaction count does not seem to match the memory usage though
233 2015-11-07T04:23:16 <jtoomim> and a memory leak is, by definition, an allocation of memory that no longer is accessible (pointer lost)
234 2015-11-07T04:23:27 <jtoomim> what do you mean?
235 2015-11-07T04:23:38 <jtoomim> transaction count seems to match memory usage as far as i can tell
236 2015-11-07T04:23:38 <Lightsword> under getmempoolinfo
237 2015-11-07T04:24:14 <Lightsword> since getmininginfo was showing nearly the same number but with a much smaller size
238 2015-11-07T04:24:20 <jtoomim> 846 transactions, 6451433 bytes?
239 2015-11-07T04:24:55 <jtoomim> 6451433 / 846 = 7625 bytes average
240 2015-11-07T04:25:11 <jtoomim> so you probably have about 400 transactions that are nearly 15kb in size
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242 2015-11-07T04:25:23 <jtoomim> plus 400 others that are about 400 bytes each
243 2015-11-07T04:25:33 <Lightsword> but what doesnât make sense is the mismatch between "currentblocksize" : 473630 and "bytes" : 6934459
244 2015-11-07T04:25:46 <jtoomim> why not?
245 2015-11-07T04:25:53 <jtoomim> you can't make a block that's 6.9 MB in size
246 2015-11-07T04:26:11 <jtoomim> and most of the bytes in your mempool belong to transactions with fees below your minrelaytxfee limit
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248 2015-11-07T04:26:12 <Lightsword> "currentblocksize" : 473630 is less than .5MB so I donât think thats the issue
249 2015-11-07T04:26:31 <jtoomim> block size doesn't matter
250 2015-11-07T04:26:33 <jtoomim> mempool size matters
251 2015-11-07T04:26:47 <jtoomim> about half of the time in createnewblock is just scanning through the mempool
252 2015-11-07T04:26:53 <jtoomim> i have a 600 MB mempool on my test node
253 2015-11-07T04:26:55 <Lightsword> "currentblocksize" : 473630 should come from CNB
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255 2015-11-07T04:27:07 <jtoomim> that means that createnewblock has to scan through 600 MB of transactions in order to make a 1 MB block
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257 2015-11-07T04:27:22 <jtoomim> the speed of CNB is determined by the 600 MB, not the 1 MB
258 2015-11-07T04:27:23 <jtoomim> mostly
259 2015-11-07T04:27:25 <Lightsword> right, bu if the mempool was 6.9MB why isnât CNB creating a 1MB block?
260 2015-11-07T04:27:45 <jtoomim> because you have a minrelaytxfee setting which excludes 6.5 MB of those transactions
261 2015-11-07T04:28:52 <jtoomim> those 6.5 MB of transactions trickled in due to the default limitfreerelay=15 setting
262 2015-11-07T04:29:09 <Lightsword> yeah, thatâs my guess, but why is CNB using minrelaytxfee?
263 2015-11-07T04:29:20 <jtoomim> because that's what the code says
264 2015-11-07T04:29:22 <phantomcircuit> Lightsword, "because"
265 2015-11-07T04:29:37 <jtoomim> that's the inviolate will of satoshi nakamoto, of course
266 2015-11-07T04:29:45 <jtoomim> or maybe gavin
267 2015-11-07T04:29:52 <phantomcircuit> more likely Luke-Jr
268 2015-11-07T04:29:59 <Luke-Jr> ?
269 2015-11-07T04:30:28 <Luke-Jr> no, that was a "fix" Hearn snuck in IIRC
270 2015-11-07T04:30:34 <Lightsword> so CNB and what gets allowed into the mempool are inconsistant?
271 2015-11-07T04:30:38 <Luke-Jr> which reduced the real default fee
272 2015-11-07T04:30:46 <Luke-Jr> without discussion
273 2015-11-07T04:30:51 <jtoomim> Lightsword: yes.
274 2015-11-07T04:30:58 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: they're supposed to be
275 2015-11-07T04:31:14 <jtoomim> there is a trickle of free/dust transactions allowed in
276 2015-11-07T04:31:29 *** Belxjander has joined #bitcoin-dev
277 2015-11-07T04:31:36 <jtoomim> there's also a trickle of dust/free transactions that are put into blocks
278 2015-11-07T04:31:41 <jtoomim> most pools have this disabled, though
279 2015-11-07T04:31:42 <Lightsword> so the mempool just keeps getting bloated until CNB gets bogged down?
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281 2015-11-07T04:31:48 <jtoomim> i think only eligius still puts them in
282 2015-11-07T04:31:56 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: it was supposed to be removed in like 0.8 or 0.9 :P
283 2015-11-07T04:32:20 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: 0.12 will have some kind of expiry on the mempool stuff
284 2015-11-07T04:32:20 <jtoomim> lightsword: yes, except that until now, we've always been able to clear out all the transactions in the network and get mempool size to 0 every now and then
285 2015-11-07T04:32:33 <Luke-Jr> unless we revert it
286 2015-11-07T04:32:44 <Luke-Jr> jtoomim: what? that was never a goal..
287 2015-11-07T04:32:44 <jtoomim> But the Oct 7 spam changed that. Now it's chronically full.
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289 2015-11-07T04:33:20 <Lightsword> so why havenât people been recommending pools to run with limitfreerelay=0 if it is a source of GBT latency?
290 2015-11-07T04:33:36 <Luke-Jr> because GBT latency should not be a problem
291 2015-11-07T04:33:37 *** CheckDavid has quit IRC
292 2015-11-07T04:33:38 <Luke-Jr> for the 10000th time
293 2015-11-07T04:33:38 <jtoomim> luke-jr: what was never a goal? eligius and free tx, or putting a trickle of dust into blocks?
294 2015-11-07T04:33:51 <Luke-Jr> jtoomim: the latter
295 2015-11-07T04:34:12 <Lightsword> whatâs the point of allowing free transactions if they arenât getting put into block by CNB?
296 2015-11-07T04:34:13 <jtoomim> well, one person's dust is another person's dPriority transactions
297 2015-11-07T04:34:21 <jtoomim> i'm referring to the 5% default reserved blockspace
298 2015-11-07T04:34:28 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: CNB is different for every node.
299 2015-11-07T04:34:41 <Luke-Jr> jtoomim: no, dust is never priority
300 2015-11-07T04:34:50 <jtoomim> fine, free != dust
301 2015-11-07T04:34:56 <jtoomim> i apologize for conflating the terms
302 2015-11-07T04:35:15 <jtoomim> there's also a trickle of free transactions that are put into blocks
303 2015-11-07T04:35:45 <jtoomim> but all of our dust currently gets swept under the carpet, where it belongs
304 2015-11-07T04:35:45 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: the mempool/relay policy defaults are intended to be explicitly broader than the mining defaults, so that miners can configure their mining policy without being tied back by relay
305 2015-11-07T04:35:53 <jtoomim> and where it remains for ever and ever.
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307 2015-11-07T04:36:41 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, aside from patching bitcoin core itself how would a miner configure their policy separately?
308 2015-11-07T04:37:10 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: every release has gradually made policy more and more configurable in bitcoin.conf, and miners /should/ be patching Core
309 2015-11-07T04:37:32 * Luke-Jr is working toward making patching unnecessary, but we're not there yet.
310 2015-11-07T04:38:06 <jtoomim> limitfreerelay=x and blockprioritysize=x
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312 2015-11-07T04:38:38 <Lightsword> well, I donât like running patched code like that in production
313 2015-11-07T04:38:56 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: well too bad. you want to be a lazy miner, and we want you to NOT be a lazy miner. -.-
314 2015-11-07T04:39:06 <Lightsword> although thatâs probably more because Iâm not able to do code review core code myself
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316 2015-11-07T04:39:16 <Lightsword> for core*
317 2015-11-07T04:39:40 <jtoomim> luke-jr: many miners are pathologically afraid of patching core. https://forum.bitcoin.com/post6041.html#p6040
318 2015-11-07T04:39:55 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: if you can't write the code yourself, hire someone else to do it :P (or to submit improvements upstream to make less patching needed)
319 2015-11-07T04:40:08 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, I often do hire people :P
320 2015-11-07T04:40:23 <Luke-Jr> jtoomim: I have no idea why you linked that.
321 2015-11-07T04:40:37 <Lightsword> but I donât really have any policy other than best fees that I would want for my node
322 2015-11-07T04:40:38 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: good; this is one of those things.. :P
323 2015-11-07T04:40:55 <Luke-Jr> well, best fees can be configured now except for RBF and CPFP
324 2015-11-07T04:41:10 <Lightsword> best fees is default behavior right?
325 2015-11-07T04:41:13 <Luke-Jr> no
326 2015-11-07T04:41:20 <jtoomim> luke-jr: i'm just saying that a lot of miners (like Marshall Long) don't even want to upgrade bitcoind, much less patch it, because they're afraid of breaking something and losing a block
327 2015-11-07T04:41:31 <Luke-Jr> (also, I'd encourage miners to be more altruistic than greedy..)
328 2015-11-07T04:41:51 <Luke-Jr> jtoomim: that link appears to be talking about malware forks, not upgrades.
329 2015-11-07T04:42:14 <jtoomim> In fact we dont upgrade if we don't have to."
330 2015-11-07T04:42:27 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, I think mining needs to align with economic encentives, if you have to rely on altruism you have a design issue IMO
331 2015-11-07T04:42:31 <Lightsword> incentives*
332 2015-11-07T04:42:42 <Luke-Jr> jtoomim: anyhow, admittedly many lazy miners exist, and that is a problem.
333 2015-11-07T04:42:55 <Luke-Jr> jtoomim: but it's not a problem necessarily solved by enabling laziness ;)
334 2015-11-07T04:43:10 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: yes, we have a design issue. sadly, knowing that does not fix it.
335 2015-11-07T04:45:04 <Lightsword> well after restarting my node with limitfreerelay=0 Iâm at the top of the poolbench
336 2015-11-07T04:45:11 <Lightsword> going to see if it stays that way
337 2015-11-07T04:47:07 <Lightsword> two block in a row
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340 2015-11-07T04:50:18 <Lightsword> jtoomim, do you have any mining nodes that have getmininginfo showing below 1MB?
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343 2015-11-07T04:54:17 <jtoomim> lightsword: no, because doing so violates my ethics
344 2015-11-07T04:55:32 <jtoomim> there's enough non-spam for 1 MB blocks, so i make 990 kB blocks.
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347 2015-11-07T04:56:07 <Lightsword> jtoomim, I allow 1MB block on mine but have to restrict mempool size due to spam using minrelaytxfee, not much in the way of other opions right now that donât involve patching
348 2015-11-07T04:56:20 <Lightsword> orphans cost a lotâ¦.
349 2015-11-07T04:57:03 <jtoomim> lightsword, i use a patched malware fork that has mempool eviction to limit the mempool size to a certain number of bytes on my main node
350 2015-11-07T04:57:20 <jtoomim> where "patched malware fork" is what luke-jr calls XT
351 2015-11-07T04:57:24 <Lightsword> jtoomim, I canât risk breaking relay network
352 2015-11-07T04:57:39 <jtoomim> that's a valid concern. i use p2pool, so i don't care.
353 2015-11-07T04:57:53 <jtoomim> also, the node that i run this on is not the node that's connected to the relay network anyway
354 2015-11-07T04:58:00 <jtoomim> only one IP address
355 2015-11-07T04:58:06 <jtoomim> RN only allows one connection per IP, apparently
356 2015-11-07T04:58:08 <Lightsword> anyways, IMO the random eviction is stupid because it does not make sense economically
357 2015-11-07T04:58:27 <jtoomim> we've had this conversation before
358 2015-11-07T04:58:53 <jtoomim> i agree that random eviction to keep the mempool very close to the blocksize is not a good idea
359 2015-11-07T04:59:03 <Lightsword> jtoomim, I never heard of any restrictions on relay network per IP
360 2015-11-07T04:59:09 <Lightsword> there are multiple relay network servers even
361 2015-11-07T04:59:20 <jtoomim> hmm, i suppose i should try a different server
362 2015-11-07T04:59:23 <Lightsword> you should be using relay network even with p2pool
363 2015-11-07T04:59:48 <jtoomim> i am using relay network on my :9334 p2pool node, but when i tried it on my :9336 p2pool node, it wouldn't connect
364 2015-11-07T05:00:08 <Lightsword> Iâm using â/opt/RelayNode/c++/relaynetworkclient 127.0.0.1 8333 public.us-west.relay.mattcorallo.comâ
365 2015-11-07T05:00:13 <jtoomim> my guess is that this was because both servers are NATted on the same IP
366 2015-11-07T05:00:17 <jtoomim> but i am not sure
367 2015-11-07T05:00:21 <jtoomim> i should investigate further
368 2015-11-07T05:00:31 <Lightsword> you are connecting it to bitcoind right?
369 2015-11-07T05:00:35 <jtoomim> yes
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371 2015-11-07T05:01:25 <jtoomim> #screen -dmS relaynode /home/p2pool/RelayNode/client/relaynetworkclient public.us-west.relay.mattcorallo.com 127.0.0.1 8333
372 2015-11-07T05:01:31 <jtoomim> strange, the argument order is different
373 2015-11-07T05:01:37 <jtoomim> maybe that was my mistake?
374 2015-11-07T05:01:42 <Lightsword> could be
375 2015-11-07T05:02:19 <Lightsword> bitcoin-cli getpeerinfo | grep "subver"
376 2015-11-07T05:02:33 <Lightsword> and you should see it as a peer "subver" : "/RelayNetworkClient:42/",
377 2015-11-07T05:03:05 <jtoomim> p2pool@feather:~$ /home/p2pool/RelayNode/client/relaynetworkclient 127.0.0.1 8333 public.us-west.relay.mattcorallo.com
378 2015-11-07T05:03:05 <jtoomim> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::invalid_argument'
379 2015-11-07T05:03:05 <jtoomim> what(): stoul
380 2015-11-07T05:03:07 <jtoomim> Aborted
381 2015-11-07T05:03:28 <Lightsword> you git pull recently?
382 2015-11-07T05:03:54 <jtoomim> p2pool@feather:~$ /home/p2pool/RelayNode/client/relaynetworkclient public.us-west.relay.mattcorallo.com 127.0.0.1 8333
383 2015-11-07T05:03:55 <jtoomim> Connected to bitcoind with version 70010
384 2015-11-07T05:03:55 <jtoomim> Finished connect handshake with bitcoind
385 2015-11-07T05:03:56 <jtoomim> Closing relay socket, failed to read message header (104: Connection reset by peer)
386 2015-11-07T05:03:58 <jtoomim> Closing relay socket, failed to read message header (104: Connection reset by peer)
387 2015-11-07T05:04:00 <jtoomim> Closing relay socket, failed to read message header (104: Connection reset by peer)
388 2015-11-07T05:04:02 <jtoomim> Closing relay socket, failed to read message header (104: Connection reset by peer)
389 2015-11-07T05:04:04 <jtoomim> Closing relay socket, failed to read message header (104: Connection reset by peer)
390 2015-11-07T05:04:06 <jtoomim> Closing relay socket, failed to read message header (104: Connection reset by peer)
391 2015-11-07T05:04:07 <Lightsword> there shouldnât be a relaynetworkclient binary in the client folder
392 2015-11-07T05:04:08 <jtoomim> ^C
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394 2015-11-07T05:04:20 <jtoomim> so it looks like my version's argument order is different, and my version isn't connecting to the server successfully on this machine
395 2015-11-07T05:04:22 <Lightsword> you need to go into the c++ and use make
396 2015-11-07T05:04:36 <Lightsword> it was updated 10 days ago
397 2015-11-07T05:04:41 <jtoomim> but it connects on the other machine from which i got my binary
398 2015-11-07T05:05:07 <Lightsword> do you see it in bitcoin-cli getpeerinfo | grep "subver"?
399 2015-11-07T05:05:41 <jtoomim> "subver" : "/RelayNetworkClient:42/",
400 2015-11-07T05:05:43 <jtoomim> yes
401 2015-11-07T05:05:58 <jtoomim> it's connecting to bitcoind fine, just not connecting to the remote server
402 2015-11-07T05:06:10 <jtoomim> i suppose i could make the relay node on my other server connect to this one
403 2015-11-07T05:06:22 <Lightsword> well have you tried updating relaynetworkclient?
404 2015-11-07T05:06:31 <jtoomim> i don't really need relay to run on every single server on my LAN as long as it connects to each server
405 2015-11-07T05:06:38 <jtoomim> nope, not for many months
406 2015-11-07T05:06:43 <Lightsword> you need to do that
407 2015-11-07T05:06:49 <Lightsword> there are frequent changes
408 2015-11-07T05:07:23 <jtoomim> we only have about 400 Th/s on these servers
409 2015-11-07T05:07:32 <jtoomim> and all of it is on p2pool
410 2015-11-07T05:07:43 <jtoomim> so i don't worry about wringing out every last 0.1% of performance on them
411 2015-11-07T05:07:55 <jtoomim> but it probably is due for an update now
412 2015-11-07T05:08:14 <Lightsword> well it should be pretty easy
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415 2015-11-07T05:11:55 <jtoomim> ok, looks like it's working after a git clone and recompile
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430 2015-11-07T06:24:20 <Luke-Jr> err
431 2015-11-07T06:24:27 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: ping? did you assign BIP 130 twice?
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486 2015-11-07T09:53:35 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I sure did, darnit, no way to search for them on the github assignment as they don't go to my email. :(
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567 2015-11-07T12:45:28 <btcdrak> gmaxwell: you did assign twice unfortunately
568 2015-11-07T12:46:20 <btcdrak> gmaxwell: you managed to double spend a BIP ^.^
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634 2015-11-07T15:40:12 <rnicoll> Looking at OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY... is it meant to leave the lock time on the stack? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/923c5e93a90a6eddde3ab8589fc393da95bbc489/src/script/interpreter.cpp#L367 doesn't remove it, does it? Can't see it being removed later on either
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637 2015-11-07T15:42:48 <Luke-Jr> rnicoll: it must
638 2015-11-07T15:43:38 <rnicoll> Luke-Jr, cool, as long as it's intentional, just seems inconsistent with other verify ops. I take it that's for P2SH to work?
639 2015-11-07T15:44:16 <Luke-Jr> no, it has nothing to do with p2sh
640 2015-11-07T15:44:22 <Luke-Jr> it's necessary for it to be a softfork
641 2015-11-07T15:44:47 <rnicoll> Ah, got it
642 2015-11-07T15:45:12 <rnicoll> I've been arguing with a P2SH issue that turned out to be because I was removing the top item from the stack rather than just testing it, hence my first thought
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694 2015-11-07T17:57:54 <Lightsword> so limitfreerelay=0 seems to fix the GBT latency and mempool issues issue Iâve been seeing
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696 2015-11-07T18:00:39 <Lightsword> petertodd, have you been recommending any pools run with limitfreerelay=0 since it seems to make a huge difference?
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700 2015-11-07T18:02:35 <i386clone> i have a question about bip103
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730 2015-11-07T19:18:41 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: that probably has a high rate of discarding legit txns :<
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732 2015-11-07T19:19:09 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, well there clearly seems to be a bug with it
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736 2015-11-07T19:20:52 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, it basically brought my pool from near the bottom of poolbench to the top, above eligius and the other ckpools
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741 2015-11-07T19:25:42 <morcos> I've noticed that my nodes sometimes have peers that take a very long time between inv'ing me a block and responding to my getdata. On the order of a minute or two as opposed to the usual several seconds.
742 2015-11-07T19:25:57 <morcos> These nodes tend to consistently do this for every block they announce to me.
743 2015-11-07T19:26:36 <morcos> What's curious, is that if they were that slow to do that, you'd think they'd be backed up enough to not often be the first node to inv a new chain tip
744 2015-11-07T19:26:51 <morcos> but they seem to just as frequently as the fast nodes be the ones i'm trying to download from
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746 2015-11-07T19:27:32 <morcos> I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts on what my intentionally or unintentionally be causing this behavior
747 2015-11-07T19:27:38 <morcos> s/my/might/
748 2015-11-07T19:28:38 <gmaxwell> Intentionally, well it's an obvious attack to try to cause orphaning. Unintentionally, something causing them to have a lock held that prevents responding to the getdata. I was previously looking to see if there was a way that a third party could make you slow to respond to a getdata.
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750 2015-11-07T19:29:02 <gmaxwell> Because I have at least one report where someone's own node was the slow-responder. (INVed fast, but then took forever to respond to the getdata).
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752 2015-11-07T19:32:09 <morcos> gmaxwell: yeah i think i'm going to investigate this further, b/c it seems there is almost a binary distribution. either very fast, or very slow to respond. and if they're slow, they are consistently slow.
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760 2015-11-07T19:44:51 <morcos> i suppose if they were longpolling on getblocktemplate, then they would send invs out on the new tip before notifying getblocktemplate to run CreateNewBlock again which would lock everything up for a while. but doesn't seem like that would get to minute time frame
761 2015-11-07T19:46:20 <morcos> though depending on their mempool size... i suppose it could
762 2015-11-07T19:46:30 <gmaxwell> Well INV and then CNB which took a minute might well match the case I had!
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769 2015-11-07T19:51:41 <madein> Free
770 2015-11-07T19:51:48 <madein> Free bitcoin ?
771 2015-11-07T19:52:49 <Luke-Jr> free bans
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774 2015-11-07T19:56:06 <Lightsword> could the free transactions be causing issues because they arenât getting mined fast enough?
775 2015-11-07T19:57:18 <jonasschnelli> Lightsword: #bitcoin
776 2015-11-07T19:57:20 <morcos> gmaxwell: its close to adding up. I just ran getblocktemplate on 0.11.0 node with 1G (tx size bytes not mem usage) of mempool and it took 22 secs
777 2015-11-07T19:57:49 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: if by "issues" you mean slower GBT latency, then yes
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779 2015-11-07T19:58:19 <morcos> Lightsword: there is work in process to speed up GBT. #6898 might get merged in time for 0.12 if it gets enough reviews. may need some cleaning up too.
780 2015-11-07T19:58:22 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: perhaps we should default limitfreerelay based on blockprioritysize or something
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782 2015-11-07T19:59:32 <morcos> The biggest problem now is that it has to look up inputs for every tx in your mempool. That is solvable in many ways, 6898 provides one solution. it would make a very large mempool stuffed chock full of free transactions pretty feasible i think.
783 2015-11-07T20:00:11 <btcdrak> jonasschnelli: is your automated pull request gitian builder only for specific PRs? (referring to your website).
784 2015-11-07T20:00:12 <Lightsword> morcos, well for the time being it seems to be the cause of mempool bloating, which of course slows down GBT significantly
785 2015-11-07T20:00:37 <jonasschnelli> btcdrak: yes. Manual trigger at the moment.
786 2015-11-07T20:00:58 <jonasschnelli> I'm working on a IRC bot that allows building by serval authorized users
787 2015-11-07T20:01:05 <jonasschnelli> but can't build every PR...
788 2015-11-07T20:01:08 <sturles> I triggered a bug yesterday, which I failed to document, btw. Bitcoin Core generrated a free transaction (0.5 BTC vout sent to a new address, so very small and high priority) was not accepted by my own node due to too low fee. I suspect due to mempoolminfee beeing non-zero.
789 2015-11-07T20:01:14 <jonasschnelli> too extensive and too dangerous.
790 2015-11-07T20:01:18 <morcos> Lightsword: the mempool bloating will also be solved independently in 0.12
791 2015-11-07T20:02:15 <morcos> sturles: ah! , could you make an issue. could be something that was overlooked there.
792 2015-11-07T20:02:40 <sturles> I should probably make that github user..
793 2015-11-07T20:03:13 <sturles> I failed to note the error message. But it does make sense?
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796 2015-11-07T20:05:21 <Lightsword> morcos, are there any other ways to fix the mempool bloating from free transactions in 0.11.1 other than blocking them entirely? The performance degredation caused by this issue is huge based on my benchmarking.
797 2015-11-07T20:05:28 <morcos> sturles: yeah it makes sense
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802 2015-11-07T20:06:34 <morcos> Lightsword: so you want to allow some free transactions but not so many that they bloat up your mempool.. hmm. you coudl set limitfreerelay to something lower than the default but not 0, so that the bloating woudl take a lot longer
803 2015-11-07T20:07:22 <morcos> but thats probably not exactly what you want if you want to mine high priority txs, i don't know that you can change the AllowFree priority without hacking the code, but that would maybe accomplish what you wanted (in conjunction with lowering limitfreerelay)
804 2015-11-07T20:07:51 <Lightsword> morcos, well I would think it would make sense to limit free transactions based on total mempool size so that if they arenât getting cleared out they wonât build up
805 2015-11-07T20:08:14 <Lightsword> ie based on how much space free transactions are taking up in the mempool
806 2015-11-07T20:09:07 <morcos> Lightsword: yep there is actually not going to be a way to do that in 0.12 either I dont' think. a priority space in the mempool for free txs that is separately limited from the free tx space
807 2015-11-07T20:09:24 <morcos> that would be a nice feature to allow high pri free txs even when mempools are permanently full
808 2015-11-07T20:10:18 <Lightsword> it would also only make sense to mine free transactions when there is space left over after including all non-spam transactions
809 2015-11-07T20:10:28 <morcos> (separetly limited from the fee space i meant)
810 2015-11-07T20:11:04 <morcos> Lightsword: no easy way to define spam
811 2015-11-07T20:11:59 <Lightsword> true, that does make it tricky, maybe it just isnât feasiable to support free transactions anymore
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813 2015-11-07T20:14:56 <morcos> I think for the next release, 0.12, it may be possible to generally support free txs but not consistently. I believe they aren't permitted when mempools get full, but due to tx expiry, that condition may not be permanent.
814 2015-11-07T20:15:43 <morcos> Also if we merge new GBT code, then it should be possible if you have decent hardware to run with a large mempool (maybe even multiple gigs) and still have good performance. This might allow continuing to support free txs.
815 2015-11-07T20:15:53 <morcos> But I'm not really sure to tell you the truth
816 2015-11-07T20:15:58 <sturles> Couln't you limit mempool based on estimatepriority and estametefee? If the transactions have too low priority or fee to get confirmed within n blocks, drop them.
817 2015-11-07T20:16:10 <sturles> n depends on how full the memorypool is.
818 2015-11-07T20:16:31 <sturles> *estimatefee
819 2015-11-07T20:16:44 <morcos> sturles: yeah i think there are a bunch of possible improvements. But the goal for 0.12 was to get something in which we thought was safe. It turned out to be difficult enough as is.
820 2015-11-07T20:17:13 <Lightsword> morcos, yeah I run with an extremely large resource overhead on my pool as should most other pools, RAM usage by itself should not be an issue.
821 2015-11-07T20:17:20 <sturles> Yep, I reported a bug yesterday as well, where my own node dropped my own tx..
822 2015-11-07T20:17:31 <sturles> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/6959
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824 2015-11-07T20:17:40 <Luke-Jr> s/should/maybe do/
825 2015-11-07T20:17:41 <sturles> Reported to Githyb by Luke-Jr
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827 2015-11-07T20:24:23 <jtoomim> @Lightsword: issue #6876 is for the memory fragmentation bug that bloats RSS, not for GBT performance issues due to the default mempool configuration policy
828 2015-11-07T20:25:04 <jtoomim> i suggest you create another issue on github if you think it's really an issue
829 2015-11-07T20:25:37 <Lightsword> jtoomim, yeah, if it is caused by a few large free transactiosn then it would be separate
830 2015-11-07T20:26:33 <jtoomim> did you sample through your getrawmempool results?
831 2015-11-07T20:26:56 <Lightsword> jtoomim, no, I did save them but I donât know how to do that
832 2015-11-07T20:27:32 <jtoomim> getrawmempool returns a list of txn hashes
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834 2015-11-07T20:27:42 <jtoomim> you can just copy those hashes into many block explorers
835 2015-11-07T20:28:12 <jtoomim> some of them, like blockchain.info, don't keep transactions very long and won't be able to identify the troublemakers
836 2015-11-07T20:28:21 <jtoomim> but blocktrail.com/btc works fine
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838 2015-11-07T20:29:08 <Lightsword> well, there are over 600 transactions in that getrawmempool result, so doing it manually probably isnât possible
839 2015-11-07T20:29:20 <jtoomim> that's why i said sample
840 2015-11-07T20:29:39 <jtoomim> it takes 2 minutes to try this with a couple of tx, which is what i did
841 2015-11-07T20:29:56 <jtoomim> it takes 20 minutes or longer to write a script to do it for all of them
842 2015-11-07T20:30:17 <Lightsword> yeah, guess I should probably just throw together a script
843 2015-11-07T20:30:19 <jtoomim> and then you have to deal with formatting, and extracting the desired data, etc
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846 2015-11-07T20:31:16 <jtoomim> the block explorers will often give you a meaningful relay time as well
847 2015-11-07T20:32:02 <jtoomim> this one, in your mempool line 58, was first seen on October 7th, for example: https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/tx/612f64571419bc48535c20ba349da05f592a48ca13d6a9f0aad4ff6644eace13
848 2015-11-07T20:36:28 <gmaxwell> jtoomim: first seen stuff is kinda useless as there are nodes that continally retransmit hte same transactions.
849 2015-11-07T20:36:57 <jtoomim> well, it means that that transaction has not been mined yet despite having been around for a month
850 2015-11-07T20:37:40 <jtoomim> which means that if it gets into his mempool via limitfreerelay, and if it doesn't have a sufficient fee to pass the minrelaytxfee test, it will probably stay in his mempool for a very long time
851 2015-11-07T20:39:05 <gmaxwell> well not in gitmaster.
852 2015-11-07T20:39:52 <sipa> jtoomim: 0.11.x and earlier never evict anything from the mempool, unless found in the blockchain or conflicting with it
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855 2015-11-07T20:40:35 <jtoomim> yes, that's why lightsword is having trouble
856 2015-11-07T20:40:43 <jtoomim> he's not running master
857 2015-11-07T20:40:56 <Lightsword> so it seems to be in one way an effective DoS because of that, should all pool running 0.11.1 or below be recommended to add the limitfreerelay=0 flag?
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859 2015-11-07T20:41:05 <jtoomim> i don't think he's experiencing any behavior that is not as designed
860 2015-11-07T20:41:20 <Lightsword> previously the only recommendation I was seeing was to use minrelaytxfee=0.0001
861 2015-11-07T20:41:39 <jtoomim> it's just that the old designed behavior is not very good for our current network conditions
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863 2015-11-07T20:47:50 <Lightsword> yeah, that would seem to be the case, it just seems to be an issue that pool operators were only told about minrelaytxfee=0.0001 and not about the impact of limitfreerelay on GBT performance/mempool bloating(which is huge from my testing)
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871 2015-11-07T21:05:17 <sturles> I was just thinking.. Could a trimmed mempool mess up estimatepriority calculation as well? Since high priority 0-fee transactions have been removed from the memorypool?
872 2015-11-07T21:06:10 <sturles> Those will generally be the transcations with the highest priority, leaving the priority average in the mempool lower.
873 2015-11-07T21:06:56 <sipa> using priority as a separate ordering mechanism is increasingly hard
874 2015-11-07T21:07:23 <sipa> i expect we'll just just merge the two into a single scoring function, which takes mostly fee/size into account, but modified by priority
875 2015-11-07T21:12:02 <jtoomim> sipa: i proposed something of that sort on the list a week ago
876 2015-11-07T21:12:44 <jtoomim> proposal is to normalize the fees and the dPriority separately
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878 2015-11-07T21:13:03 <jtoomim> then add the normalized fee and priority scores together with some weighting factor
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880 2015-11-07T21:13:29 <jtoomim> e.g. 95% * normalizedFee + 5% * normalizedPriority
881 2015-11-07T21:13:42 <sipa> jtoomim: the mempool logic needs something that corresponds to "cost" and something that corresponds to "benefits"
882 2015-11-07T21:14:02 <jtoomim> yep
883 2015-11-07T21:14:21 <jtoomim> and the only major benefit that's missing is UTXO cleanup
884 2015-11-07T21:14:36 <jtoomim> from fee+prio
885 2015-11-07T21:14:46 <sipa> current cost being size in bytes, and benefits being fees in satoshis
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887 2015-11-07T21:17:07 <sturles> There is a benefit part in the priority as well. Spam will usually get low priority.
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889 2015-11-07T21:18:43 <sipa> the problem is that priority isn't aligned with miner incentives
890 2015-11-07T21:19:29 <sturles> Of course.
891 2015-11-07T21:20:02 <sipa> so the way to fix it is by changing the block resource limitations
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