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407 2015-11-08T16:38:04  <akrmn1> Hi can any help me with reading blocks from blkxxxxx.dat?
408 2015-11-08T16:39:27  <akrmn1> I am looking at block 136948. I calculated the hash of the blockheader fine as confirmed with blockchain.info
409 2015-11-08T16:39:37  <akrmn1> but I do I find the next block in the file?
410 2015-11-08T16:40:52  <akrmn1> I used the block size integer to count how many more bytes to skip in the file, but it doesn't seem to work as I don't see the magic number right after that
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496 2015-11-08T19:43:47  <kenrestivo> sorry for being lazy, but what's the current best-practices (or link to them) for using BTC for micropayments (USD$1 or so)? use an altcoin instead?
497 2015-11-08T19:44:06  *** hdbuck has joined #bitcoin-dev
498 2015-11-08T19:44:18  <kenrestivo> i don't want to pollute the blockchain with a bunch of crap
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500 2015-11-08T19:51:06  <Lightsword> kenrestivo, probably just offchain for now is easiest, kind of depends on what type of microtransactins you are doing
501 2015-11-08T19:52:14  <Lightsword> right now there is still plenty of space for legidimate transactions in the block chain, fees may be a little higher though because of spam attacks
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508 2015-11-08T20:04:28  <brand0> kenrestivo, lots of people are spamming the blockchain with OP_RETURN and ppl don't seem to mind too much
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510 2015-11-08T20:05:15  <brand0> I doubt many would complain if you were actually using BTC as value
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521 2015-11-08T20:18:49  <kenrestivo> thanks
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523 2015-11-08T20:19:26  <jasjdahsd63hfof> sipa: in 2013 you said you preferred an immediate increase to 10MB or even 100MB block size limit
524 2015-11-08T20:19:30  <jasjdahsd63hfof> what happened?
525 2015-11-08T20:19:59  *** missmogg has quit IRC
526 2015-11-08T20:20:44  <sipa> jasjdahsd63hfof: i can't remember that, but it's certainly possible i changed my mind... we know a lot more now
527 2015-11-08T20:20:54  <jasjdahsd63hfof> see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144895.msg1537737#msg1537737
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529 2015-11-08T20:21:01  <jasjdahsd63hfof> that's a big change
530 2015-11-08T20:21:16  <jasjdahsd63hfof> what new info would have swayed you?
531 2015-11-08T20:22:04  <sipa> i've since realized that centralization pressure is both in theory and practice a lot worse
532 2015-11-08T20:22:36  <sipa> the point i was making in that post is mostly that we can't remove the limit
533 2015-11-08T20:23:17  <sipa> what the actual constraints should be is something to be debated, but i don't think 10 MB is feasible right now, for purely technical reasons
534 2015-11-08T20:24:41  <jasjdahsd63hfof> what is the bottleneck for 10mb?
535 2015-11-08T20:25:00  *** pepesza_ has quit IRC
536 2015-11-08T20:25:19  <sipa> relay times, full node memory usage, ever-faster growing UTXO set, ...
537 2015-11-08T20:25:21  *** pepesza_ has joined #bitcoin-dev
538 2015-11-08T20:25:23  <sipa> these are all solvable problems
539 2015-11-08T20:26:27  *** sword_smith has joined #bitcoin-dev
540 2015-11-08T20:27:21  <jasjdahsd63hfof> are you saying 10MB isn't a feasible block size or a feasible limit?
541 2015-11-08T20:28:14  <btcdrak> sips: does this solve your nits over #6312? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6312#issuecomment-154652895
542 2015-11-08T20:28:14  <sipa> with the current technology, i think 10MB is infeasible without massively increasing centralization pressure for full nodes and miners
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544 2015-11-08T20:29:12  <jasjdahsd63hfof> miners would have to regularly create 10MB blocks
545 2015-11-08T20:29:22  <Lightsword> one nice way to see how it is in practice is looking at how long blocks take o get out of china which is currently about 5-10 seconds from my benchmarking under current conditions
546 2015-11-08T20:30:10  <jasjdahsd63hfof> why do we care how long it takes blocks to leave china
547 2015-11-08T20:30:18  <jasjdahsd63hfof> isn't that where mining is centralizing
548 2015-11-08T20:30:23  <Lightsword> because it affects orphan rates
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550 2015-11-08T20:30:37  <Lightsword> and higher orphan rates encourage centralization
551 2015-11-08T20:31:18  <Lightsword> the chinese pools also use SPV mining to increase their block change times for blocks origionating from pools outside of china
552 2015-11-08T20:31:21  <jasjdahsd63hfof> wouldnt it mostly affect their ow orphan rates
553 2015-11-08T20:31:27  <jasjdahsd63hfof> own*
554 2015-11-08T20:31:33  <gmaxwell> jasjdahsd63hfof: you misunderstand how that impact applies. If the moon has a large amount of hashpower and takes a long time to send blocks, it's everyone _else_ that suffers more.
555 2015-11-08T20:31:50  <Lightsword> yeah, china is not the one getting hurt here….it is everyone else
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557 2015-11-08T20:33:16  <gmaxwell> Increases in block propagation times make mining more progressful, and thus confer benefits to centeralization.  You need to adopt a "relativistic perspective" to understand it, there is no privleged frame of reference:  When communication between alice-bob and alice-charlie is slow, you cannot say that "alice" is slow, -- from alice's perspective bob and charlie are slow.
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559 2015-11-08T20:35:01  <jasjdahsd63hfof> so you would be worried about a pact among chinese miners to only mine ontop of each other's blocks?
560 2015-11-08T20:35:05  <gmaxwell> Worse, these impacts on miners can be most easly and incrementally "optimized" by centeralizing control and adopting things like "spv mining" that break the system's security assumptions.
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562 2015-11-08T20:35:28  <gmaxwell> jasjdahsd63hfof: no pact is required. Higher transmission delays make that behavio[D[D[D[D[D[D[Dr implicit, unintentionally.
563 2015-11-08T20:35:35  <Lightsword> I even made a simple tool to monitor propagation in real time http://poolbench.antminer.link/ block 0 is the latest block, you can see how chinese pools like f2pool and btcchina have an advantage
564 2015-11-08T20:37:24  <Lightsword> you can also see that they are picking up blocks going the opposite direction using SPV mining since the delay is basically one way, bw.com however does not SPV mine so you can get an idea of the propagaion going the opposite direction from looking at their times
565 2015-11-08T20:38:41  <jasjdahsd63hfof> this seems like a narrow window to practically exploit with high confidence
566 2015-11-08T20:38:43  <Lightsword> although I suspect bw.com may have issues with GBT latency from mempool bloating so that may not be all that good of a measurement
567 2015-11-08T20:39:12  <Lightsword> how is it narrow when every second counts?
568 2015-11-08T20:39:21  <gmaxwell> jasjdahsd63hfof: there is no "exploit", there is just a "bigger miners are more profitable" and "bigger pools are more profitable" effect.
569 2015-11-08T20:39:59  <jasjdahsd63hfof> it would be nice to see a formal summary of this effect
570 2015-11-08T20:40:10  <gmaxwell> And so the more profitable miners buy more hashpower, and the people migrate to the bigger choices, incrementally. And we've observed this in practice, since the soft blocksize limit was increased.
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572 2015-11-08T20:40:32  <gmaxwell> jasjdahsd63hfof: it's covered in many places, most recent paper showing it is the bitcoin-ng paper, for example.
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574 2015-11-08T20:42:39  <jasjdahsd63hfof> i thought the relay network provided near constant time propagation anyway
575 2015-11-08T20:43:00  <Lightsword> that’s not what i’ve seen in my testing
576 2015-11-08T20:43:16  <Lightsword> it’s pretty good for blocks origionating outside of china
577 2015-11-08T20:43:26  <Lightsword> but china still has 5-10second delays
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580 2015-11-08T20:45:37  <Lightsword> it varies a lot by block size though, smaller blocks coming from china can be much faster than that
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582 2015-11-08T20:46:34  <Lightsword> I’ve seen smaller chinese blocks closer to 2 seconds
583 2015-11-08T20:48:23  <jasjdahsd63hfof> im still failing to see why slow egress of their blocks gives them an advantage unless they constantly ignore everyone else and maintain a hashrate majority
584 2015-11-08T20:48:26  <gmaxwell> jasjdahsd63hfof: no, realy network helps indeed, but it's only constant time in the best case. Also doesn't impact other volume dependant handling delays, which can be quite considerable right now. Though some are improvable with better software.
585 2015-11-08T20:49:09  <gmaxwell> jasjdahsd63hfof: because they have their own blocks with no delay. Leaving everyone else at a disadvantage.
586 2015-11-08T20:49:35  <jasjdahsd63hfof> but that needs to happen consistently in sequence
587 2015-11-08T20:49:48  <Lightsword> it does happen consistantly
588 2015-11-08T20:50:15  <jasjdahsd63hfof> so it should also be hurting them
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590 2015-11-08T20:50:25  <jasjdahsd63hfof> is my point
591 2015-11-08T20:50:35  <gmaxwell> jasjdahsd63hfof: for a toy example, imagine 75% hashrate on mars, 25% on earth. Everyone is completely honest. Mars will get almost all the blocks. Because when mars finds a block it will take earth a half hour to learn about it, and all that time earth would have been wasting its time mining on a non-longest chain.
592 2015-11-08T20:51:25  <Lightsword> now add in that the delay is one way and it is even worse
593 2015-11-08T20:51:37  <gmaxwell> This applies in-the-small too, it's just easier to imagine with really exagerated figures.
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595 2015-11-08T20:51:55  <jasjdahsd63hfof> does it though when the difference is seconds
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597 2015-11-08T20:52:25  <jasjdahsd63hfof> the ratio of propagation to difficulty seems significant
598 2015-11-08T20:52:38  <Lightsword> yes, seconds are absolutely critical
599 2015-11-08T20:52:44  <jasjdahsd63hfof> if its much less than the 10min window its an entirely different thought exercise
600 2015-11-08T20:52:51  <jasjdahsd63hfof> than to mars
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602 2015-11-08T20:53:23  <Lightsword> in fact the larger the delay is the larger the advantage china has
603 2015-11-08T20:53:42  <gmaxwell> jasjdahsd63hfof: mining is a posson process, so even when the mean is 10 minutes, a great many blocks are found only seconds apart. And those seconds when you're on a shorter chain are still seconds you're not mining.
604 2015-11-08T20:53:55  <jasjdahsd63hfof> and the flipside is sometimes it takes an hour
605 2015-11-08T20:54:00  <gmaxwell> but yes, it gets considerably worse with shorter interblock intervals.
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607 2015-11-08T20:55:20  <jasjdahsd63hfof> it seems as though china is just as likely to orphan their own blocks due to the poisson variance
608 2015-11-08T20:55:43  <jasjdahsd63hfof> here on earth
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610 2015-11-08T20:55:47  <gmaxwell> what?!
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612 2015-11-08T20:56:18  <Lightsword> miners don’t orphan their own blocks…
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616 2015-11-08T20:57:27  <jasjdahsd63hfof> to have an advantage they'd have to be guarenteed to always win
617 2015-11-08T20:57:40  <Lightsword> no, they only have to win more often than not
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619 2015-11-08T20:58:53  <jasjdahsd63hfof> and i dont see how you can claim they can if the poisson process is at play adding +/- 0s-3600s jitter with an avg of 600s
620 2015-11-08T20:59:07  *** lewellyn has joined #bitcoin-dev
621 2015-11-08T20:59:33  <jasjdahsd63hfof> they would have to form a formal pact
622 2015-11-08T20:59:50  <jasjdahsd63hfof> it dwarfs the few seconds of delay you're observing
623 2015-11-08T21:00:26  <jasjdahsd63hfof> and if 50%+ decides to form a pact what does it matter
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625 2015-11-08T21:00:58  *** Palsson has joined #bitcoin-dev
626 2015-11-08T21:01:10  <jasjdahsd63hfof> i also don't see how this is clearly described by the ng paper
627 2015-11-08T21:01:16  *** missmogg has joined #bitcoin-dev
628 2015-11-08T21:02:35  <jasjdahsd63hfof> i understand what youre driving at but it seems like a very tenuous argument
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631 2015-11-08T21:02:59  <Lightsword> jasjdahsd63hfof, I don’t think you are looking a this the right way, for every second you are mining on top of the older block you are essentially losing money
632 2015-11-08T21:03:23  <hdbuck> do not surrender to reddit/corporation pressure and change the blocksize devs!
633 2015-11-08T21:03:52  <Lightsword> but the amount you are losing depends somewhat on regional propagation
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636 2015-11-08T21:04:32  <Lightsword> for instance in a race between a block in china and one out of china that get found at the same time, china has an advantage due to more hashing power
637 2015-11-08T21:04:54  <Lightsword> there are of course many other factors in play but that is a large part of it
638 2015-11-08T21:05:33  <Lightsword> hdbuck, huh? I thought it was corporations like coinbase that were pushing for crazy increases like BIP101
639 2015-11-08T21:06:35  *** Ahmed90 has quit IRC
640 2015-11-08T21:08:09  *** CodeShark has quit IRC
641 2015-11-08T21:09:21  <hdbuck> lightsword yea, wasnt that what i was implying? MIT, coinbase, reddit mob, whatever, dont let them turn bitcoin into a social media pseudo democracy
642 2015-11-08T21:10:01  <jasjdahsd63hfof> Lightsword: what are the relative orphan rates atm?
643 2015-11-08T21:11:55  <Lightsword> jasjdahsd63hfof, I don’t have exact data but it can be extrapolated from my pool bench marking tool, f2pool and btcchina would appear to have a non-insignfican advantage, antpool is somewhat inconsistant but can be fast and bw pool is slower
644 2015-11-08T21:12:13  *** ummjackson has left #bitcoin-dev
645 2015-11-08T21:12:24  <jasjdahsd63hfof> it seems like that would be the most relevant thing to track
646 2015-11-08T21:12:52  <Lightsword> it’s really hard to measure directly due to the way pool software differs
647 2015-11-08T21:13:12  <Lightsword> measuring stratum updates is the easiest way to get decent numbers
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651 2015-11-08T21:14:04  <jasjdahsd63hfof> people would be more receptive to seeing relative orphan rates. it makes it concrete and a demonstrably real problem.
652 2015-11-08T21:14:41  *** CodeShark has joined #bitcoin-dev
653 2015-11-08T21:15:38  <Lightsword> jasjdahsd63hfof, you can extrapolate that from stratum update times, orphan rates have high variance and poor reporting which makes them too hard to directly measure
654 2015-11-08T21:17:32  <jasjdahsd63hfof> hmm can you really extrapolate it though? how do u know an update is the result of an abandoned fork
655 2015-11-08T21:18:11  <jasjdahsd63hfof> what about the more coarse measurement of blocks we actually see sent out to propagate
656 2015-11-08T21:18:36  <Lightsword> jasjdahsd63hfof, you can just measure the average time between first pool to see the block and a particular pool and use that number to estimate orphan rates
657 2015-11-08T21:18:52  <Lightsword> stratum updates are the direct result of a pool switching to a new block
658 2015-11-08T21:20:35  *** ParadoxSpiral_ has quit IRC
659 2015-11-08T21:20:52  <jasjdahsd63hfof> if this argument is so compelling it's interesting to me that no one tracks relative orphan rates
660 2015-11-08T21:21:04  <jasjdahsd63hfof> surely it'd be plastered everywhere
661 2015-11-08T21:21:07  <Lightsword> jasjdahsd63hfof because there is no reliable data
662 2015-11-08T21:21:15  *** devrando1 is now known as devrandom
663 2015-11-08T21:21:23  <jasjdahsd63hfof> i thought u told me we could extrapolate it
664 2015-11-08T21:21:55  <Lightsword> jasjdahsd63hfof, indirectly you can estimate it
665 2015-11-08T21:22:32  <jasjdahsd63hfof> well why does no one estimate it and display this damning data which allegedly shows a clear an obvious threat to  decentralization
666 2015-11-08T21:22:40  <jasjdahsd63hfof> and
667 2015-11-08T21:23:03  <Lightsword> jasjdahsd63hfof, for a simplistic estimation just use changetime/600
668 2015-11-08T21:23:14  <Lightsword> that gives you your orphan rate percentage
669 2015-11-08T21:23:22  <jasjdahsd63hfof> my point is no one has done it yet
670 2015-11-08T21:23:31  <jasjdahsd63hfof> but this is a critical lynch pin of many arguments
671 2015-11-08T21:23:40  <jasjdahsd63hfof> can u understand my confusion?
672 2015-11-08T21:23:54  <Lightsword> maybe nobody has made it pretty but people have done he calculations
673 2015-11-08T21:24:28  <jasjdahsd63hfof> where are the results
674 2015-11-08T21:26:13  <Lightsword> well lets use 10 seconds for large block coming out of china as an example, that would be 10/600 or an orphan rate of about 1.7%
675 2015-11-08T21:26:29  *** InternetFriend has joined #bitcoin-dev
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677 2015-11-08T21:27:04  <Lightsword> for smaller block coming out of china I’ve seen closer to 2 seconds so that is an orphan rate of about .3%
678 2015-11-08T21:28:06  <Lightsword> there are more factors that come into play but that gives you an idea of what a few seconds can do
679 2015-11-08T21:28:42  <jasjdahsd63hfof> im implying the other factors are material
680 2015-11-08T21:29:14  <jasjdahsd63hfof> theres much more at play than "time spent hashing the wrong block for this cycle"
681 2015-11-08T21:29:39  *** CodeShark has quit IRC
682 2015-11-08T21:29:51  <Lightsword> jasjdahsd63hfof, yes there is propagation of the competing block that comes into play as well, which further benefits china
683 2015-11-08T21:30:55  <Lightsword> how much it does is tricky to measure due to how many factors are in play such as SPV mining
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687 2015-11-08T21:34:51  <jasjdahsd63hfof> what's stopping china from selfish-mining then intentionally. why not exaggerate the effect of the gfw then if it's such a clear advantage
688 2015-11-08T21:35:06  <Lightsword> jasjdahsd63hfof, nothing
689 2015-11-08T21:35:32  <jasjdahsd63hfof> so if blocks were 1mb or 10mb they could do the same thing if they control more hashing power
690 2015-11-08T21:35:38  <jasjdahsd63hfof> the size of the blocks doesnt seem to matter
691 2015-11-08T21:35:49  <Lightsword> larger blocks make the firewall worse
692 2015-11-08T21:36:01  <jasjdahsd63hfof> well we've established nothing stops them from simulating that anyway
693 2015-11-08T21:36:54  <jasjdahsd63hfof> (by the way i really appreciate you engaging me)
694 2015-11-08T21:37:13  <Lightsword> yes, but that would assume they are acting maliciously which they are not, if they chose to make bigger blocks to get more transaction fees they could cause the same problem without the collusion
695 2015-11-08T21:37:31  <Lightsword> and without the malicous intention
696 2015-11-08T21:39:46  <jasjdahsd63hfof> im not sure intention is completely relevant
697 2015-11-08T21:40:17  <jasjdahsd63hfof> if it is a sure way to make more money i think we have to assume it will be adopted
698 2015-11-08T21:40:36  <jasjdahsd63hfof> and if its not so sure then why do we care again
699 2015-11-08T21:41:01  <Lightsword> it already is an issue to some degree, f2pool for instance makes a lot of large block which propagate slowly to non-chinese pools, this gives f2pool an advantage
700 2015-11-08T21:41:48  <jasjdahsd63hfof> they could just delay propagation
701 2015-11-08T21:42:37  <Lightsword> larger blocks do that already without intentionally causing delays
702 2015-11-08T21:43:04  <Lightsword> but they aren’t acting malicously, they are going for more fees
703 2015-11-08T21:43:43  <jasjdahsd63hfof> the real threat to decentralization seems like their aggregate hashrate and not the size of their blocks
704 2015-11-08T21:44:17  <jasjdahsd63hfof> we're latching onto one second order effect
705 2015-11-08T21:44:25  <Lightsword> the thing is larger block incentivise centralization
706 2015-11-08T21:45:11  <jasjdahsd63hfof> wanting to mine with the biggest hashrate is probably a much larger incentive
707 2015-11-08T21:45:50  <Lightsword> I’m talking about incentives for miners when they are choosing a pool, they would be incentivised to go to a larger more profitable pool
708 2015-11-08T21:46:17  <jasjdahsd63hfof> the real incentive there is the hashrate of the pool
709 2015-11-08T21:46:21  <jasjdahsd63hfof> not how big their blocks are
710 2015-11-08T21:46:36  <jasjdahsd63hfof> or some slight orphanrate advantage that cant be reliably quantified
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713 2015-11-08T21:47:00  <Lightsword> it’s not really slight, it is measureable and is significantly influenced by block size
714 2015-11-08T21:47:05  *** ava has quit IRC
715 2015-11-08T21:47:49  <jasjdahsd63hfof> it's a secodn order incentive comparedto hashrate
716 2015-11-08T21:47:53  <jasjdahsd63hfof> if at all
717 2015-11-08T21:48:01  <jasjdahsd63hfof> is my argument anyway
718 2015-11-08T21:48:15  <Lightsword> hashrate can move between pools though
719 2015-11-08T21:48:23  <Lightsword> you attract hashrate by paying out more
720 2015-11-08T21:48:54  <Lightsword> the more hashrate you get the more the pool can pay out, this is what can cause centralization
721 2015-11-08T21:49:08  <Lightsword> larger block increase the impact of centralization
722 2015-11-08T21:50:06  <jasjdahsd63hfof> in some unmeasurable way
723 2015-11-08T21:50:36  <Lightsword> it is measureable, I have been watching it using stratum updates
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725 2015-11-08T21:51:07  <jasjdahsd63hfof> what you're measuring isn't an end to end conclusive effect of block size on centralization pressure
726 2015-11-08T21:52:56  <Lightsword> it certainly shows there is an effect, although I don’t have detailed statistics on exactly how significant the effect is over long periods of time
727 2015-11-08T21:53:00  <jasjdahsd63hfof> is there a better channel to discuss this including others?
728 2015-11-08T21:53:06  <jasjdahsd63hfof> this seems pretty off topic at the moment
729 2015-11-08T21:53:24  <Lightsword> well I have to go soon anyways
730 2015-11-08T21:53:37  <jasjdahsd63hfof> ok well good talking with you
731 2015-11-08T21:53:43  <jasjdahsd63hfof> it's helped me understand some more nuances
732 2015-11-08T21:54:31  <Lightsword> if a 1MB block takes 5 seconds to propagate my guess would be an 8MB one could take 40
733 2015-11-08T21:54:36  <Lightsword> or worse
734 2015-11-08T21:54:51  <Lightsword> that would be very very bad
735 2015-11-08T21:56:39  *** jtimon has joined #bitcoin-dev
736 2015-11-08T21:57:05  <jasjdahsd63hfof> i better get back to work
737 2015-11-08T21:57:07  <jasjdahsd63hfof> thanks again
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755 2015-11-08T22:44:18  <BlueMatt>  /query phantomcircuit
756 2015-11-08T22:44:23  <BlueMatt> lol
757 2015-11-08T22:51:11  <Diablo-D3> fail
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775 2015-11-08T23:35:25  <essof> Could someone point me to some documentation for building outputs?
776 2015-11-08T23:36:05  <phantomcircuit> jtoomim, really you went to all the trouble of forking testnet and you're not even really running xt?
777 2015-11-08T23:36:06  <phantomcircuit> lol
778 2015-11-08T23:37:21  <jtoomim> yes i am
779 2015-11-08T23:37:32  <jtoomim> i just wasn't connected to any other xt nodes
780 2015-11-08T23:38:02  *** won9 has joined #bitcoin-dev
781 2015-11-08T23:38:36  <jtoomim> hey, does anyone know a way to get a VPS in the mainland?
782 2015-11-08T23:38:45  <jtoomim> amazon aws seems to only allow it if you're a chinese company
783 2015-11-08T23:38:51  *** venzen has joined #bitcoin-dev
784 2015-11-08T23:38:52  <phantomcircuit> ah right that stupid grace period
785 2015-11-08T23:40:17  *** alferz has quit IRC
786 2015-11-08T23:40:28  <jtoomim> our testnet is configured so crappily right now
787 2015-11-08T23:40:36  <jtoomim> performance is going to be epically awful
788 2015-11-08T23:40:36  *** belcher has quit IRC
789 2015-11-08T23:40:37  <jtoomim> should be fun
790 2015-11-08T23:40:42  <phantomcircuit> you realize there's like 3 forks now right?
791 2015-11-08T23:41:00  <jtoomim> uh, i just woke up about an hour ago
792 2015-11-08T23:41:17  <jtoomim> 3 testnets?
793 2015-11-08T23:41:29  <jtoomim> what are you referring to?
794 2015-11-08T23:41:37  * phantomcircuit laughs and walks away
795 2015-11-08T23:42:00  <jtoomim> do you mean the v4 fork?
796 2015-11-08T23:42:10  <jtoomim> v4, bip101, and what else?
797 2015-11-08T23:42:23  <phantomcircuit> you'll find out
798 2015-11-08T23:44:15  *** won9 has quit IRC
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800 2015-11-08T23:44:54  <wangchun> Lightsword: I suggest you point some hashrate to our stratum server to benchmark. We send stratum job updates to big miners sooner than smaller ones.
801 2015-11-08T23:45:19  <phantomcircuit> wangchun, er... why?
802 2015-11-08T23:45:23  <wangchun> And if you listen to stratum, you'll see slush also sends 25 BTC empty blocks
803 2015-11-08T23:45:36  <phantomcircuit> bandwidth really that limited?
804 2015-11-08T23:45:46  <wangchun> phantomcircuit: to reduce orphan rate, big miners are more valuable to pools
805 2015-11-08T23:45:49  <Lightsword> wangchun, yeah, eligius does sometime similar, with my current setup it’s not really possible
806 2015-11-08T23:46:14  <Lightsword> the benchmarking server is just running cgminer in load balance mode but it is a VPS without any actual hardware behind it
807 2015-11-08T23:46:29  <Lightsword> interestingly enough f2pool is still often the fastest
808 2015-11-08T23:46:31  *** PaulCapestany has joined #bitcoin-dev
809 2015-11-08T23:46:39  <phantomcircuit> wangchun, so when you send out new work you would be using 100% of your bandwidth if you weren't doing that?
810 2015-11-08T23:47:14  *** won9 has joined #bitcoin-dev
811 2015-11-08T23:47:21  <wangchun> phantomcircuit: but at 100% bandwidth it still takes a second or two
812 2015-11-08T23:47:35  <wangchun> phantomcircuit: so you have to prioritize big miners
813 2015-11-08T23:47:38  <phantomcircuit> wangchun, ah so you really are using 100% of bandwidth at that point
814 2015-11-08T23:47:52  <phantomcircuit> wangchun, proxies?
815 2015-11-08T23:48:14  <Lightsword> wangchun, the main issue I’m seeing is your blocks are taking a long time to get out of china, you are on relay network right?
816 2015-11-08T23:48:31  <wangchun> Lightsword: yes, i am using relay network
817 2015-11-08T23:48:59  <wangchun> Lightsword: You mean the full block data, not only block header right?
818 2015-11-08T23:49:01  <Lightsword> wangchun, is it bandwidth overall that is causing the slowdown or something else?
819 2015-11-08T23:49:18  <Lightsword> yeah, full block data, my pool fully validates and builds only off of GBT
820 2015-11-08T23:49:39  <wangchun> Lightsword: I don't know, our bitcoind only connect to a limited number of other bitcoinds,
821 2015-11-08T23:50:03  *** metalcamp has quit IRC
822 2015-11-08T23:50:04  <Lightsword> wangchun, do you use multiple bitcoind instances or just one?
823 2015-11-08T23:50:38  <phantomcircuit> wangchun, are you running the relay network client itself?
824 2015-11-08T23:51:04  <wangchun> Lightsword: what user agent are you using? If it's not Satoshi:0.9.5/0.10.2/0.11.*, you are guaranteed not connected to us directly
825 2015-11-08T23:51:45  <Lightsword> wangchun, I’m running unmodified 0.11.1, but I think I get most blocks off of relay network
826 2015-11-08T23:51:48  <wangchun> Lightsword: I have 6 bitcoinds, which only accept connections from synced Satoshi:0.9.5/0.10.2/0.11.* nodes
827 2015-11-08T23:52:41  <wangchun> Nodes like bitcoinj bitcoinxt and etc have no value to mining operations, only wastes resource
828 2015-11-08T23:52:54  <wangchun> Because no pools using them
829 2015-11-08T23:53:30  <Lightsword> wangchun, I think relay makes the biggest difference, do you see the client when you run “bitcoin-cli getpeerinfo | grep "RelayNetworkClient””
830 2015-11-08T23:53:45  <Lightsword> on all your nodes
831 2015-11-08T23:53:59  <Lightsword> I’m wondering if you accidentially blocked relayclient
832 2015-11-08T23:54:26  <Lightsword> since it’s subver comes up as "subver" : "/RelayNetworkClient:42/",
833 2015-11-08T23:56:08  *** c0rw1n is now known as GreenBat
834 2015-11-08T23:56:41  <Lightsword> if you are blocking any clients without “satoshi:0.9.5/0.10.2/0.11.*” then you are probably blocking relay client
835 2015-11-08T23:57:12  <Lightsword> also make sure you do a git pull to update relay client and compile it from the c++ folder
836 2015-11-08T23:57:14  *** GreenBat is now known as c0rw1n
837 2015-11-08T23:57:53  <wangchun> Lightsword: I think I've got a problem...
838 2015-11-08T23:58:04  <Lightsword> wangchun, you should be running relay client like this “/opt/RelayNode/c++/relaynetworkclient 127.0.0.1 8333 public.us-east.relay.mattcorallo.com”
839 2015-11-08T23:58:21  <Lightsword> wangchun, what sort of problem?
840 2015-11-08T23:59:01  <wangchun> Lightsword: I forgot to whitelist the relayclient ip address in iptables
841 2015-11-08T23:59:13  <Lightsword> wangchun, are you running it locally?
842 2015-11-08T23:59:29  <Lightsword> do you mean the outgoing connection from relayclient?
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