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63 2015-12-04T01:43:55 <Lightsword> would the cs_main lock https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/rpcmining.cpp#L385 for getblocktemplate automatically get unlocked when getblocktemplate returns?
64 2015-12-04T01:44:06 <phantomcircuit> Lightsword, yes
65 2015-12-04T01:44:23 <phantomcircuit> Lightsword, if you want to run TBV in a background thread you need to acquire the lock there also
66 2015-12-04T01:45:44 <Lightsword> can two threads hold the same lock a the same time?
67 2015-12-04T01:46:54 <phantomcircuit> no they're exclusive locks
68 2015-12-04T01:47:16 <phantomcircuit> (we should probably have read locks also but that's a significant complexity increase and we would definitely fuck it up)
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71 2015-12-04T01:51:16 <Lightsword> is there a way to handover a lock between threads?
72 2015-12-04T01:53:52 <Lightsword> hmm, does GBT need the lock after CNB?
73 2015-12-04T01:54:47 <gmaxwell> Lightsword: Do you have a rig setup to test latency of responses?
74 2015-12-04T01:54:58 <Lightsword> gmaxwell yes
75 2015-12-04T01:55:15 <gmaxwell> Good. (I was going to remind you of the first principle of optimization: don't optimize what you can't test.)
76 2015-12-04T01:55:18 <Lightsword> I was testing locally on my mac though using some debug statemens
77 2015-12-04T01:55:59 <Lightsword> seems if I can get this to work itâs an easy ~100ms
78 2015-12-04T01:56:05 <Lightsword> maybe more
79 2015-12-04T01:56:48 <Lightsword> main test server I have on poolbench as well
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81 2015-12-04T01:57:43 <gmaxwell> oh right backgrounding the validation.
82 2015-12-04T01:57:49 <gmaxwell> Indeed. I'm glad you're trying.
83 2015-12-04T01:58:59 <Lightsword> gmaxwell, it looks like getblocktemplate is losing the cs_main lock before the TBV thread finishes
84 2015-12-04T01:59:53 <gmaxwell> Lightsword: the locks are scoped, meaning that when the go out of scope (like a stack variable) they are freed.
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86 2015-12-04T02:02:02 <Lightsword> gmaxwell, Iâm thinking I need to hand off the lock held by GBT to CNB and then to the TBV thread, does that sound right?
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89 2015-12-04T02:05:27 <phantomcircuit> Lightsword, i think you'll find that the majority of the latency now is hex encode and json encode/decode
90 2015-12-04T02:06:43 <Lightsword> phantomcircuit, I did notice that was also a big source of latency, I think it may have been a little more than TBV but both were significant
91 2015-12-04T02:06:56 <morcos> Lightsword: I think you should just be able to acquire it separately in the new thread and it'll block until it's freed up from GBT (would be nice to make sure that happens before the json crap though)
92 2015-12-04T02:07:41 <dgenr8> the p2p request to list the whole mempool is probably unnecessary, UNLESS a bloom filter is in force. what's the problem in that case?
93 2015-12-04T02:08:16 <Lightsword> morcos, can I have GBT unlock before CNB and then have CNB grab the lock so it can be handed off to TBV?
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97 2015-12-04T02:09:25 <morcos> Lightsword: are you worried about something else grabbing the lock in between
98 2015-12-04T02:09:45 <Lightsword> morcos, that or GBT needing the lock after CNB returns
99 2015-12-04T02:13:57 <morcos> Lightsword: it looks to me from a quick check that you could rescope the lock or manually change to release after UpdateTime in GBT
100 2015-12-04T02:14:21 <morcos> i don't think it should be a problem if some other code grabs the lock before TBV as you're not really waiting on TBV at that point anyway
101 2015-12-04T02:14:38 <morcos> my bigger concern is what happens when TBV fails (commented on the PR)
102 2015-12-04T02:15:48 <gmaxwell> One thought is that you stop mining transactions and set stop setting the verify flag ( BIP I plan on posting to the list as soon as people working more on version bits tell me they won't strangle me for stealing a bit out from under them: https://people.xiph.org/~greg/bip.draft-maxwell-flagverify.mediawiki )
103 2015-12-04T02:17:52 <Lightsword> morcos, I thought the throw would shut down the node entierely in the event of a TBV failure
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105 2015-12-04T02:20:02 <phantomcircuit> Lightsword, oh and fyi easiest way to get a rough idea of what's causing latency is to call gbt in an infinte loop with perf record -ag running
106 2015-12-04T02:20:53 <Lightsword> I was adding logging to the code and just looking at the timestamps
107 2015-12-04T02:21:24 <phantomcircuit> Lightsword, the logging adds latency :P
108 2015-12-04T02:21:33 <morcos> Lightsword: the existing code does not shut down the node
109 2015-12-04T02:22:12 <Lightsword> what should I call to do that?
110 2015-12-04T02:22:52 <phantomcircuit> Lightsword, assert(TestBlockValidity())
111 2015-12-04T02:23:47 <morcos> Lightsword: I meant the code before your change doesn't shut down the node. I'm not sure what your change causes
112 2015-12-04T02:23:49 <Lightsword> should I just remove the throw?
113 2015-12-04T02:24:02 <morcos> gmaxwell: interesting, but seems risky...
114 2015-12-04T02:24:04 <Lightsword> and use assert instead?
115 2015-12-04T02:24:30 <gmaxwell> I thought we did assert on failure there already. Did that get removed recently?
116 2015-12-04T02:24:48 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, it simply returns Null
117 2015-12-04T02:24:55 <gmaxwell> does the caller assert on null?
118 2015-12-04T02:25:19 <morcos> 0.11 and 0.12/master both throw a runtime_error, but it is caught by the rpc handling code and returns a JSON error (hopefully an informative one)
119 2015-12-04T02:25:23 <gmaxwell> morcos: consider: say we don't do this. Many miners probably will. They'll do it less safely, and they'll have an advantage from doing so.
120 2015-12-04T02:25:41 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, it just returns an error
121 2015-12-04T02:25:53 <phantomcircuit> which is pretty opaque throw JSONRPCError(RPC_OUT_OF_MEMORY, "Out of memory");
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123 2015-12-04T02:26:13 <morcos> gmaxwell: yeah i see the motivation. but i worry about things which don't have any enforceable meaning, but people might come to rely on unwisely. i don't have a specific objection, i'm just wary
124 2015-12-04T02:26:31 <gmaxwell> I don't know why I remember otherwise. (not that it's weird for me to be wrong; but I thought I remembered fixing a CNB bug that was causing it to assert)
125 2015-12-04T02:26:39 <morcos> phantomcircuit: thats what it does on returning NULL, it doesn't return NULL unless you've got a SERIOUS problem
126 2015-12-04T02:26:45 <morcos> a failed block doesn't cause that
127 2015-12-04T02:27:31 <gmaxwell> morcos: well we know right now that a significant fraction of hashpower extends chains without verifying them. (maybe even a majority). We don't hav any clue how fast they switch back to verifying if that even works, etc.
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130 2015-12-04T02:28:39 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i dont think they even can switch back because of "protections" in the mining clients
131 2015-12-04T02:28:39 <Lightsword> gmaxwell, I think they have a ~75 second validation timeout
132 2015-12-04T02:28:53 <gmaxwell> Lightsword: if it works.
133 2015-12-04T02:28:56 <phantomcircuit> they can only switch to another longer chain
134 2015-12-04T02:29:27 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: bfgminer iirc will reorg one block, due to deepbit frequently loadbalancing across daemons which were racing themselves
135 2015-12-04T02:29:30 <Lightsword> yeah, I think they shut off the stratum serversâ¦.I should check on that
136 2015-12-04T02:29:31 <morcos> gmaxwell: yes i suppose i only quickly skimmed it, so if you are a full node or a miner doing things right, you're just going to ignore that bit entirely anyway right
137 2015-12-04T02:29:49 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: no
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141 2015-12-04T02:31:06 <gmaxwell> morcos: right; it's a hint to lite wallets and other SPV clients that some blocks shouldn't count in their risk assesment.
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143 2015-12-04T02:32:48 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: makes so much more sense to get the SPV miners to not publish invalid blocks, even if they search for them
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146 2015-12-04T02:33:54 <gmaxwell> of course, miners can be outright malicious; ... but thats the risk SPV clients take. The issue is that the SPV assumption assumes that validation is economically rational for miners; but thats not really true in the first second after a new block.
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149 2015-12-04T02:35:02 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: thats not operationally pratical: getting your block out fast means sending it lots of ways; you'll leak and you won't even know it (until someone gets screwed over), and the more reasonable ways to implement it end up adding a block-validation worth of latency.
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152 2015-12-04T02:36:16 <gmaxwell> and every piece of latency is progress that makes larger miners are more profitable than smaller ones; or if you define not validating as unscruplous its a reason that cheaters are more profitable: not exactly the ecosystem we want the system to encourage. :)
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155 2015-12-04T02:36:52 <morcos> gmaxwell: how do they publish blocks without validating them?
156 2015-12-04T02:37:23 <gmaxwell> morcos: send directly from their mining pool servers to everything they can connect them to. (including things like the relay node client)
157 2015-12-04T02:38:11 <morcos> so the mining pool servers talk p2p directly to all these other things? yeah i guess that makes sense
158 2015-12-04T02:38:19 <gmaxwell> now, hopefully none of these blocks are making it to an SPV client without being filtered by something, but thats hard to be sure of.
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161 2015-12-04T02:42:13 <Lightsword> how do I manually unlock a lock set by LOCK(cs_main)?
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163 2015-12-04T02:52:17 <Lightsword> LEAVE_CRITICAL_SECTION?
164 2015-12-04T02:57:34 <gmaxwell> without the code in front of me: adjust the scoping so the lock goes out of scope.
165 2015-12-04T02:57:44 <gmaxwell> Explicitly leaving should be avoided if at all possible.
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180 2015-12-04T03:24:57 <morcos> is it safe to assume BIP 68 and whichever one MedianTimePast is will go in together, or in particular we will never have 68 without MTP
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211 2015-12-04T04:15:25 <Prattler> Hello, I believe I have discovered a critical socket bug
212 2015-12-04T04:15:27 <Prattler> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7168
213 2015-12-04T04:15:30 <Prattler> please comment
214 2015-12-04T04:16:14 <Prattler> gmaxwell
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216 2015-12-04T04:16:37 <Prattler> ATM, receiving is done in 8 byte chunks
217 2015-12-04T04:16:41 <Prattler> that's very inefficient
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220 2015-12-04T04:17:15 <Lightsword> Prattler, is that an issue only with 0.12?
221 2015-12-04T04:17:27 <Prattler> affects all code from year 2011
222 2015-12-04T04:17:31 <Prattler> BOOM!
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224 2015-12-04T04:20:18 <Lightsword> Prattler, is that used for all p2p connections?
225 2015-12-04T04:20:36 <Prattler> yes, block receive, tx receive, everything
226 2015-12-04T04:20:39 <tulip> the line is modified in 9cbae55a6ed6fcc46e636b4ae670816aab3746ec but it wasn't added then.
227 2015-12-04T04:22:01 <Prattler> noticed this as my LAN node setup was not going over 3 MB/s. Now it's max available speed as expected.
228 2015-12-04T04:22:05 <tulip> it's present in wxBitcoin 0.1 actually, along with the comment above it.
229 2015-12-04T04:22:15 <Prattler> haha!
230 2015-12-04T04:22:35 <Prattler> sizeof(ptrToArray) = 8, not the size of the array!
231 2015-12-04T04:22:39 <Prattler> == 8
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234 2015-12-04T04:24:40 <Prattler> on BIP 101 testnet 8-9 MB blocks I could actually see my CPU go up as a new block was being downloaded in these 8 byte chunks
235 2015-12-04T04:25:10 <Prattler> and speed only reached ~3 MB/s
236 2015-12-04T04:25:17 * Lightsword pulls patch on test server
237 2015-12-04T04:26:46 <Prattler> by first pull request, so please comment if anything can be done better
238 2015-12-04T04:26:50 <Prattler> my first pull request
239 2015-12-04T04:28:18 <Luke-Jr> Prattler: ⦠you're wrong
240 2015-12-04T04:28:26 <Prattler> ah?..
241 2015-12-04T04:28:27 <Luke-Jr> pchBuf is not a pointer at all
242 2015-12-04T04:28:29 <Luke-Jr> it's an array
243 2015-12-04T04:29:14 <Prattler> Firstly, the sizeof() operator does not give you the number of elements in an array, it gives you the number of bytes a thing occupies in memory. Hence:
244 2015-12-04T04:29:59 <Luke-Jr> which in this case is 0x10000
245 2015-12-04T04:30:21 <Luke-Jr> 0x10000 * sizeof(char) = 0x10000
246 2015-12-04T04:30:46 <Prattler> well I did run the changes with debug info... size went up from 8 to 1440 or smth
247 2015-12-04T04:32:04 <Prattler> someone will soon confirm
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249 2015-12-04T04:33:53 <Prattler> oh damn! You're probably right! It's an XT-only bug
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252 2015-12-04T04:40:03 <Prattler> so it sneaked into XT, it's a bit different there:
253 2015-12-04T04:40:04 <Prattler> char *pchBuf = new char[amt];
254 2015-12-04T04:40:04 <Prattler> int nBytes = recv(pnode->hSocket, pchBuf, sizeof(pchBuf), MSG_DONTWAIT);
255 2015-12-04T04:41:32 <Lightsword> Prattler, yeah I checked that code and those do come out the same
256 2015-12-04T04:41:44 <Prattler> Thanks!
257 2015-12-04T04:42:26 * Lightsword wonders why XT is messing with networking code like that
258 2015-12-04T04:42:49 <Prattler> it's some stupid bandwidth throttling patch
259 2015-12-04T04:43:31 <Prattler> probably a bad idea anyway, since it would degrade block propagation
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268 2015-12-04T04:57:03 <Prattler> damn, wanted to contribute so much!
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270 2015-12-04T05:01:41 <gmaxwell> Prattler: thats for the effort though!
271 2015-12-04T05:01:52 <gmaxwell> er thanks!
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273 2015-12-04T05:02:35 <Prattler> :)
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284 2015-12-04T05:14:01 <Luke-Jr> Prattler: hey, at least you weren't imagining it ⺠next time you'll find a real one..
285 2015-12-04T05:14:27 <Prattler> yeah, it's real.. XT is seriously messed up ATM
286 2015-12-04T05:14:46 <Prattler> and it's a decent amount of the total network full nodes!
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288 2015-12-04T05:14:56 <gmaxwell> s'not the only way; if you want to be a hero you can go review, you'd be like the only person doing it there. :)
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343 2015-12-04T07:01:20 <Lightsword> do boost::threads created by a function that has a LOCK(cs_main); retain the lock?
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361 2015-12-04T07:52:27 <BW^-> by connecting to an IP, is there any byte sequence or other trick, that can help you distinguish between a dummy port, and a Bitcoin node?
362 2015-12-04T07:52:40 <BW^-> just to verify that the connection works
363 2015-12-04T07:53:27 <tulip> you can handshake with it, but that doesn't prove it's a node, it just proves it knows how to handshake.
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365 2015-12-04T07:54:14 <BW^-> tulip: the handshake is a binary sequence, so i'd need to have it in a binary file and pipe it to telnet or ncat right?
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367 2015-12-04T07:55:19 <BW^-> aha there's a checker at https://bitnodes.21.co/ also
368 2015-12-04T07:55:33 <tulip> not attempting to talk to a Bitcoin node using Bash would probably be better.
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373 2015-12-04T07:59:12 <BW^-> tulip: do you have any favourite testing tool, or only bitcoind -connect ?
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380 2015-12-04T08:07:54 <BW^-> tulip,*: http://pastebin.com/kXUnQtqP , my instance is not listening to port 8333 at all
381 2015-12-04T08:08:30 <tulip> telnet is enough for diagnosing that.
382 2015-12-04T08:09:58 <BW^-> tulip: righ t- maybe i must add "-bind=*:8333" because i use "-whitebind" ??
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384 2015-12-04T08:12:16 <tulip> you want 0.0.0.0:8333, not an asterisk. that's the default so you don't need to explicitly configure it.
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386 2015-12-04T08:12:50 <BW^-> aha
387 2015-12-04T08:12:59 <BW^-> tulip: but mine is not listening to 8333??
388 2015-12-04T08:13:03 <BW^-> 0.11.2
389 2015-12-04T08:13:16 <BW^-> tulip: clearly "telnet localhost 8333" and "telnet myexternalip 8333" do not work,
390 2015-12-04T08:13:33 <BW^-> and netstat -a | grep LISTEN | grep 8333 shows nothing
391 2015-12-04T08:13:43 <tulip> check your debug.log to find out why, binding the listening port happens early on.
392 2015-12-04T08:14:17 <BW^-> mhm
393 2015-12-04T08:14:17 <BW^-> brb
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398 2015-12-04T08:16:46 <BW^-> tulip: when I specified -whitebind=... -listen=1 but no -bind, there was only a binding formy whitebind port listed
399 2015-12-04T08:16:50 <BW^-> and indeed it did not listen on 8333
400 2015-12-04T08:16:55 <BW^-> so I must add -bind=0.0.0.0:8333 .
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403 2015-12-04T08:22:51 <BW^-> here's my tmux.conf: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8853816
404 2015-12-04T08:22:56 <BW^-> gribble: = informal bug report!
405 2015-12-04T08:23:19 <BW^-> also, switching terminals tends to stop working and it's passed through to the guest console, but, the D option to detach always works!
406 2015-12-04T08:24:38 <BW^-> top says: 15521 MYUSER 64 0 218M 217M onproc - 904:17 99.02% tmux: server (/tmp/tmux-1000/default)
407 2015-12-04T08:25:37 <BW^-> right, and now it dissolved magically and allw orks again
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409 2015-12-04T08:27:39 <BW^-> sigh, wrong chan, sorry
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432 2015-12-04T09:33:46 <CubicEarth> Multiple Choice Question: Bitcoin is not GPU accelerated because: A) It is B) It can't be C) It can and should be, but there are more important things to do D) Eh, more complexity, minimal gain, so probably will not happen
433 2015-12-04T09:33:59 <CubicEarth> (I don't know the answer)
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435 2015-12-04T09:44:29 <tulip> b basically.
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437 2015-12-04T09:45:34 <tulip> you don't want to do script verification on a GPU because it would be a complete reimplementation, and not necessarily consensus compatible.
438 2015-12-04T09:46:55 <tulip> well c I guess.
439 2015-12-04T09:51:09 <CubicEarth> I was forgetting about the consensus-critical part for a moment, so yeah, that makes sense.
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444 2015-12-04T09:57:20 <CubicEarth> But otherwise, validating txs and blocks is very parallelizable, right?
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446 2015-12-04T09:58:55 <CubicEarth> But a large tx with many inputs, does that need to be handled in a serial way?
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451 2015-12-04T10:07:33 <Lightsword> CubicEarth, right now even multiple CPU core optimization has a long way to go for bitcoin
452 2015-12-04T10:08:30 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: eh? not sure how it can do much better
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455 2015-12-04T10:10:34 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, Iâm not as familiar with the codebase as you are obviously but I get the idea that it doesnât scale out to multiple cores that well overall, although I assume some of that is due to certain operations being difficult to thread
456 2015-12-04T10:11:09 <Luke-Jr> s/difficult/impossible/
457 2015-12-04T10:11:20 <Luke-Jr> where possible, it is already done multi-threaded
458 2015-12-04T10:13:06 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, well yeah obviously there is quite a bit of stuff that is impossible but I think there is still a decent amount is, Iâve been trying to thread TestBlockValidity for instance
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460 2015-12-04T10:14:21 <Luke-Jr> oh, I was thinking just the sync
461 2015-12-04T10:14:32 <midnightmagic> parallelizing merkel tree building won't win you much
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463 2015-12-04T10:17:46 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, Iâm talking more about the application side stuff, networking stack etc, btw does it look like I have a locking issue here? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7167/files
464 2015-12-04T10:18:57 <Lightsword> would ValidateBlock get covered by the lock from getblocktemplate or do I need to somehow have the ValidateBlock hold the lock itself?
465 2015-12-04T10:19:47 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: the lock held by thread A cannot cover thread B :/
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468 2015-12-04T10:20:39 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: and block seems to still be in a race there
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471 2015-12-04T10:23:59 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, yeah thatâs what I thought, Iâm having trouble figuring out how to handle this though, would something along the lines of handing off the lock between threads work?
472 2015-12-04T10:24:41 <Luke-Jr> no, you probably need to wait for the lock in the new thread
473 2015-12-04T10:24:47 <Luke-Jr> the block is going to be a bigger issue for you :p
474 2015-12-04T10:24:51 <Luke-Jr> basically you need to copy it
475 2015-12-04T10:25:12 <Luke-Jr> or do some smart pointer magic that probably also needs a lock :/
476 2015-12-04T10:25:13 <Lightsword> ah, ok I was thinking I might
477 2015-12-04T10:25:44 <Lightsword> btw why does TBV need a cs_main lock?
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480 2015-12-04T10:28:12 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, the other thing I was thinking about what doing a join right before GBT returns, that way cs_main would be locked by GBT until TBV finishes right?
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483 2015-12-04T10:31:02 <Luke-Jr> Lightsword: that'll block your GBT reply
484 2015-12-04T10:31:20 <Luke-Jr> and probably impossible to prove correct
485 2015-12-04T10:31:28 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, yeah I know but at least it wonât block the serialization parts of GBT right?
486 2015-12-04T10:32:07 <Luke-Jr> it will
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489 2015-12-04T10:34:13 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, so TBV wouldnât be able to run in parallel to the serialization part?
490 2015-12-04T10:35:33 <Luke-Jr> it might, but not this way
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492 2015-12-04T10:37:31 <CubicEarth> midnightmagic: wouldn't the merkle tree construction be speeded up by log2(number of txs)
493 2015-12-04T10:39:28 <CubicEarth> (assuming more available threads than txs)
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547 2015-12-04T12:35:20 <cypherblock> Is there any estimate (or way to find out) how many different sets of transactions are being mined at any one time?
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557 2015-12-04T12:50:42 <tulip> cypherblock: no.
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559 2015-12-04T12:51:52 <tulip> memory pools are not contiguous, we don't even know how many unconfirmed transactions exist, it's basically an infinite amount. any given transaction has practically limitless permutations.
560 2015-12-04T12:54:08 <cypherblock> well certainly not an infinite amount. At anyone time there are a finite number of sets of transactions (what will go into blocks), being mined. There ought to be a way to estimate how many sets.
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562 2015-12-04T12:56:08 <cypherblock> Do you mean that every miner has a different set of transactions? If so then the answer is just the total number of miners running at any one time. Do we have estimates for that?
563 2015-12-04T12:56:20 <tulip> it's for all intents unlimited. if you count each TXID as a transaction, there's 2**256 permutations for every signature in it. if you count every combination of inputs, well there's lots of them too.
564 2015-12-04T12:56:34 <tulip> nope.
565 2015-12-04T12:57:36 <cypherblock> I don't think you are understanding me. How many different blocks are being mined at any one time (disregarding coinbase, nonce, etc).?
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567 2015-12-04T12:58:56 <tulip> what do you call different blocks?
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570 2015-12-04T12:59:56 <tulip> for different merkle roots, again it's limitless.
571 2015-12-04T13:00:03 <cypherblock> Mining: Get a set of transactions from a node, add some stuff to it (coinbase, etc), start hashing. Right? So that first step "get a set of transactions from a node" is what I'm talking about. How many different sets are being worked on?
572 2015-12-04T13:00:20 <sipa> cypherblock: likely as many as there are miners
573 2015-12-04T13:00:37 <sipa> cypherblock: as they all include a different coinbase transaction at least, that oays to themselves
574 2015-12-04T13:00:46 <tulip> no two nodes are going to have the same set of transactions, even if they are they are unlikely to put them in the same order.
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576 2015-12-04T13:01:20 <cypherblock> Right, but ignoring coinbase and other non-transaction data.
577 2015-12-04T13:01:42 <tulip> I am ignoring the coinbase. the other transactions will be different.
578 2015-12-04T13:01:44 <sipa> very likely still all different
579 2015-12-04T13:02:12 <sipa> they hear about transactions in a different order, miss some dependencies, have different policies, software versions, ...
580 2015-12-04T13:02:58 <cypherblock> Ok, so is there an estimate then on how many total miners are currently active at any one time?
581 2015-12-04T13:03:06 <tulip> nope.
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583 2015-12-04T13:03:48 <tulip> could be one, could be millions, the design doesn't differentiate between one or the other. pools muddy things further, is someone connected to a pool a "miner"? probably not by this sort of definition.
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585 2015-12-04T13:06:03 <cypherblock> Yes, a miner, in my sense is any process trying to solve a block. So a pool might have 2000 miners connected to it, all hashing away. But what is the real number (2000 was an example). If we had numbers from the largest pools, some estimate could be made.
586 2015-12-04T13:06:24 <sipa> why does it matter?
587 2015-12-04T13:06:41 <sipa> for all intents and purposes, all miners in a pool behave as one
588 2015-12-04T13:07:31 <sipa> two hashing boxes owned by one person, is that one or two miners? they hash independently, trying different blocks
589 2015-12-04T13:09:39 <cypherblock> Yes trying different blocks = different miner. I started this discussion on "how many different sets of txs are being mined?". Answer was, as many as there are "miners". So how many miners. Different blocks being worked on at any one time?
590 2015-12-04T13:10:11 <sipa> Every asic tries different ranges of nonces
591 2015-12-04T13:10:28 <sipa> may i ask why that number matters?
592 2015-12-04T13:10:37 <afk11> they often use different merkle roots (ie, include different sets of transactions) so each header is distinct, and no duplication of work.
593 2015-12-04T13:11:37 <Lightsword> think they mainly just increment extranonce2
594 2015-12-04T13:11:55 <cypherblock> Well, was just trying to understand the issue of block propagation, and solutions like IBLT.
595 2015-12-04T13:12:13 <afk11> Lightsword: how long do you think it takes an asic to clear 2^32? it's pretty fast. they compute with a different merkle tree, meaning they can try another range of 2^32
596 2015-12-04T13:12:15 <Lightsword> well thatâs more pools you are talking about then
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598 2015-12-04T13:12:45 <Lightsword> yeah, they do internal work generation based off of stratum templates
599 2015-12-04T13:13:04 <tulip> Lightsword: some mining software rolls the sequence number.
600 2015-12-04T13:13:12 <Lightsword> yep
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613 2015-12-04T13:32:57 <cypherblock> In stratum mining, the jobs are broadcast right, not requested by miners? Is that right. So in that case, everyone who gets the broadcast is working on the same set of transactions (merkle branch)? Right?
614 2015-12-04T13:35:51 <cypherblock> And then I guess it would be good to know how often (for a given mining pool) that merkle branch is changed in the broadcast.
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618 2015-12-04T13:52:03 <paveljanik> One hour between blocks...
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620 2015-12-04T13:54:19 <cypherblock> Ouch, yeah, slush pool just solved though.
621 2015-12-04T13:54:36 <cypherblock> 6 min ago.
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684 2015-12-04T15:38:34 <elguido> .
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749 2015-12-04T17:47:01 <BW^-> why does BitcoinD take 180% CPU when "-par=1" is set, is it hardwired to always have at least two running threads (one central and one for verifications), working concurrently?
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791 2015-12-04T19:28:32 <jl2012> 73.83% of recent blocks are v4, and AntPool has around 20%. As soon as they upgrade, the softfork will complete. Beware of SPV mining.
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