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68 2015-12-15T01:52:52 <jl2012> rusty: I don't see any damage here. There is no big deal for me.
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70 2015-12-15T01:53:46 <jl2012> However, I don't like the idea of moving to another mailing list like bitcoin-discuss. It does not slove the problem
71 2015-12-15T01:53:49 <rusty> jl2012: hi! I clearly failed in my attempt to steer the conversation in a more productive direction :(
72 2015-12-15T01:54:03 <jl2012> no no, that's ok
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74 2015-12-15T01:54:17 <rusty> jl2012: yeah, I agree; it wouldn't solve the problem that people don't read the damn explanation.
75 2015-12-15T01:54:36 <jl2012> If Bitcoin blockchain is full, does moving to Litecoin slove the problem? I don't think so
76 2015-12-15T01:55:00 <rusty> jl2012: For example, I just moderated this: https://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev-moderation/attachments/20151214/d5938ee4/attachment.mht
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80 2015-12-15T01:56:18 <jl2012> We need a Lightning Network of discussion: allow rapid exchange of idea and ask simple questions
81 2015-12-15T01:56:49 <rusty> jl2012: almost certainly, since the current broadcast mechanism doesn't scale :(
82 2015-12-15T01:57:02 <jl2012> and let the idea hit the blockchain (bitcoin-dev) only if it is mature enough
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85 2015-12-15T01:58:02 <jl2012> a highly moderated section in bitcointalk could be used for this purpose
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87 2015-12-15T01:58:57 <rusty> jl2012: it's hard to bootstrap such a thing though. Everyone wants to post to -dev because that's where everyone is. Hence the demand for moderation, and my insistence that bitcoin-discuss exist before moderation began.
88 2015-12-15T01:58:57 <jl2012> btcdrak and I also opened a subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinwizards/
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90 2015-12-15T01:59:48 <rusty> jl2012: I'm happy for you to post on that thread and suggest people take it to the subreddit. Your current post came across as pretty upset :(
91 2015-12-15T01:59:51 <jgarzik> jl2012, nifty
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93 2015-12-15T02:00:06 <jl2012> rusty: bitcointalk was good. Just serious people are leaving
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95 2015-12-15T02:01:13 <rusty> jl2012: I also hope you have the patience of a Maxwell to answer the same questions repeatedly! I think some people just read your opening "It is a common practice in commercial banks that a dormant account might be confiscated." and didn't get further...
96 2015-12-15T02:02:01 <jl2012> rusty: I won't mind doing it in a forum / reddit setting
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98 2015-12-15T02:02:06 <gmaxwell> oh damn, I didn't realize they were getting caught on that.
99 2015-12-15T02:02:08 <jl2012> no in the mailing list
100 2015-12-15T02:02:13 <gmaxwell> Communicating is hard.
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102 2015-12-15T02:02:41 <gmaxwell> Really a test audience is needed. Now, I guess we know to not explain it the way jl2012 was.
103 2015-12-15T02:03:00 <rusty> gmaxwell: yes, I went back and re-read when I was trying to figure out why the thread is circling on the same corrections.
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105 2015-12-15T02:04:16 <sipa> it was also my impression of the proposal after reading the title and first sentences
106 2015-12-15T02:04:34 <jl2012> rusty: I'm trying to build https://8333.info , partially due to the circling reason
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108 2015-12-15T02:05:37 <jl2012> If the wiki is good enough, we could have a central point for people to check all the previous discussion on the topic
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110 2015-12-15T02:05:59 <midnightmagic> the subject line suggested it was a choice
111 2015-12-15T02:06:07 <gmaxwell> it only gets good enough via one way.
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113 2015-12-15T02:06:37 <gmaxwell> I only read that as the problem it was solving; but I have the context of knowing of this class of solutions already, and also knowing jl2012 is no fool. :)
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117 2015-12-15T02:09:16 <rusty> jl2012: an excellent idea; perhaps you should do an FAQ post on this thread, nudging people to the subreddit and mentioning the new wiki?
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120 2015-12-15T02:10:40 <gmaxwell> That jl2012 can't prpose a fairly straightforward idea without being mobbed is a problem. What exactly is the list for?
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174 2015-12-15T02:50:09 <morcos> is there any benefit to having the rule that seq numbers = ffffffff means nLockTime doesn't apply, or could we just soft fork that out
175 2015-12-15T02:50:30 <morcos> might be a nice simple soft fork to run with version bits to test out simultaneously with something else
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211 2015-12-15T03:37:53 <Luke-Jr> morcos: the only way to softfork it out is to forbid seq=ffffffff, which breaks lots of current wallets
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214 2015-12-15T03:44:19 <jl2012> Luke-Jr: I don't think so. Currently, it is "if seq=max, do not check nLockTime"; a softfork could be "if seq=max, check nLockTime". Clearly a softfork
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217 2015-12-15T03:45:18 <jl2012> Though, I don't agree with this softfork. It doen't make anything better
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219 2015-12-15T03:49:19 <btcdrak> morcos: isnt this preserving old behaviour?
220 2015-12-15T03:49:35 <btcdrak> jl2012: right. Seems like fiddling for the sake of it.
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224 2015-12-15T03:50:39 <btcdrak> jl2012: nice job on the wiki.
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328 2015-12-15T09:05:06 <jl2012> is there any CLTV tx on the blockchain already?
329 2015-12-15T09:06:48 <jl2012> I think there is a page showing all strange scripts on the blockchain
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400 2015-12-15T12:03:12 <petertodd> jl2012: yup: c974c3dc7762b4f021e74a699339fbeec72cfe6f271a0e4578359c6366f84e23 <- 5BTC using CLTV (and probably my shitty op-hodl.py demo, which is kinda scary...)
401 2015-12-15T12:04:17 <jl2012> Thanks.
402 2015-12-15T12:06:25 <phantomcircuit> petertodd, lulz
403 2015-12-15T12:07:51 <veggi3> hi
404 2015-12-15T12:08:26 <veggi3> what is going to happen to all of the interenet which has encryption all over, such as with even https and bitcoin, once quantum computing comes about, like maybe as soon as 2020
405 2015-12-15T12:08:46 <petertodd> veggi3: off-topic - take it to #bitcoin
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408 2015-12-15T12:09:23 <veggi3> [04:05:27] <jimbrr> I suppose they can just change the scheme used, however these questions are probably best kept for #bitcoin-dev
409 2015-12-15T12:09:31 <veggi3> taht was from ##bitcoin
410 2015-12-15T12:09:49 <petertodd> veggi3: you said "all of the internet" :)
411 2015-12-15T12:10:07 <petertodd> veggi3: anyway, yeah, quantum resistant sig algo's exist - quantum computers probably don't
412 2015-12-15T12:10:21 <petertodd> veggi3: this topic has been discussed to death before and isn't very interesting
413 2015-12-15T12:10:28 <veggi3> yeah, well is bitcoin going to change its algorithm when that comes about then?
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501 2015-12-15T14:46:29 <morcos> jl2012: you may be right that its not worth the cost for whatever tiny benefit it has to remove it. but does it serve any purpose whatsoever?
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503 2015-12-15T14:46:57 <morcos> perhaps at some point we could at least make it non-standard so would be easy enough to fork out later
504 2015-12-15T14:48:25 <morcos> the reasoning is that it just makes for cleaner consensus code if a txs validity vis-a-vis the nLockTime field does not depend on this special edge case of all the sequence numbers. (a minor concern i agree with everything else we need to do)
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507 2015-12-15T14:49:51 <jl2012> morcos: even if we want to change the rule, it must be applied only to unknown transaction versions. Otherwise people with un-broadcast tx may get burnt
508 2015-12-15T14:50:43 <morcos> jl2012: i suppose thats true, or be waiting a very very long time
509 2015-12-15T14:51:13 <jl2012> so you will only make the consensus code more complex, not simple
510 2015-12-15T14:52:17 <morcos> hmm, yes so i guess unlike block version #'s. old tx versions are always accepted.. that's kind of annoying
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513 2015-12-15T14:54:27 <morcos> perhaps there should be some sort of general policy we follow on how long old txs will be valid
514 2015-12-15T14:54:33 <jl2012> and even if you do this, with CLTV, you must not set sequence=max. To remove this rule from CLTV is a hardfork. Or we need CLTV2 which does not check the sequence
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518 2015-12-15T14:55:06 <morcos> oh shoot, really...
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520 2015-12-15T14:55:41 <morcos> i think thats an argument for cleaning up things like this as we go (even if its too late for this one) so they don't become hopelessly imbedded
521 2015-12-15T14:56:46 <morcos> but certainly old non-standard txs are not always valid in the future. for instance tx version 2's that were authored a long time ago with accidental sequence locks
522 2015-12-15T14:57:37 <morcos> but the CLTV thing is pretty much a show stopper i guess
523 2015-12-15T14:58:09 <morcos> i should have had this idea yesterday. :)
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526 2015-12-15T15:00:55 <jl2012> no one should use any unknown version or unknown NOP
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534 2015-12-15T15:14:34 <jl2012> It seems no v3 block generated since the fork. The softfork is quite clean this time
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654 2015-12-15T18:44:24 <btcdrak> jl21012: it's been amazing. I guess that's another falling sky argument out the window +__+
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657 2015-12-15T18:46:29 <jouke> jl2012: How would you know that not an other block was mined?
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659 2015-12-15T18:48:53 <jouke> Couldn't they just not be forwarded to your nodes?
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679 2015-12-15T19:32:59 <mrkent> How large of an address pool can bitcoind hold?
680 2015-12-15T19:33:14 <instagibbs> jouke, I could mine a v3 block right now for yesterday. Impossible to prove when it was made :P
681 2015-12-15T19:35:07 <jouke> instagibbs: whenever I see your name I get a urge to play UT :x
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