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  52 2015-12-26T02:02:06  <tg_> i am planning to use block.io bitcoin API to send and receive bitcoin amount for a web based game. very simple API usage.. is there any reason to go with something else than block.io?
  53 2015-12-26T02:02:44  <tg_> i am just asking to see if there is anything obvious in terms of what other people use that I am not aware of
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  55 2015-12-26T02:13:05  <Luke-Jr> tg_: #bitcoin topic
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  64 2015-12-26T02:29:21  <phantomcircuit> tg, use the bitcoin client api...
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 235 2015-12-26T09:12:09  <maaku> CodeShark: I'm pretty sure your latest email regarding block withholding is incorrect
 236 2015-12-26T09:12:27  <CodeShark> howso?
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 240 2015-12-26T09:12:45  <maaku> a block can display the actual difficulty, while the miner doesn''t know what difficulty a share is
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 243 2015-12-26T09:13:54  <maaku> the pool picks a nonce, and the rule is H(header) must meet diff 1, and H(nonce || header) must meet declared difficulty
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 248 2015-12-26T09:16:33  <CodeShark> if the whole point is to prevent miners from not submitting solved blocks to the pool what's important is to make it hard for the miner to know how close to the line separating shares from solved blocks he is
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 254 2015-12-26T09:17:21  <CodeShark> we can't reduce the difficulty as per the bits semantics without a hard fork
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 256 2015-12-26T09:18:30  <CodeShark> or at least I don't see how
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 262 2015-12-26T09:20:07  <CodeShark> the two-stage target mechanism changes the bit field semantics
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 265 2015-12-26T09:21:54  <CodeShark> in other words, to do this as a soft fork, H(header) must be at least as small as before
 266 2015-12-26T09:22:59  <CodeShark> which means we can only increase difficulty further away from the line dividing shares from solved blocks
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 269 2015-12-26T09:23:23  <maaku> CodeShark: the hasher doesn't know nonce, so it doesn't know H(nonce || header)
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 272 2015-12-26T09:23:32  <CodeShark> yes, I understand
 273 2015-12-26T09:23:40  <CodeShark> the problem is the first part of the conditional
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 276 2015-12-26T09:24:09  <maaku> H(header) > diff 1 is the definition of a share though
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 279 2015-12-26T09:24:48  <maaku> so the hasher has no information more than whether or not the header is a valid share
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 281 2015-12-26T09:25:23  <maaku> but the target difficulty of an actual block is not unknown or obscured
 282 2015-12-26T09:25:40  <maaku> it' sjust that the hasher is not in a position to calculate it
 283 2015-12-26T09:25:45  <CodeShark> ok, perhaps we're confusing terms here
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 285 2015-12-26T09:26:05  <CodeShark> there are two independent PoW checks that when combined give a known target difficulty
 286 2015-12-26T09:26:13  <CodeShark> one is visible to the hasher, the other is not
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 290 2015-12-26T09:27:07  <CodeShark> in the current situation, the one that is not known to the hasher can be thought of as trivial - it's always satisfied
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 293 2015-12-26T09:28:22  <CodeShark> if we add a nontrivial unknown PoW check, to preserve the same total difficulty we must reduce the difficulty as per the bits semantics
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 297 2015-12-26T09:29:48  <CodeShark> I mean...blocks that did not satisfy the difficulty according to the bits semantics before might now satisfy it (assuming the unknown PoW test passes)
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 299 2015-12-26T09:30:36  <CodeShark> of course, the bits field can still encode the total difficulty
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 302 2015-12-26T09:30:58  <CodeShark> but now H(header) can be larger than it was allowed to be before
 303 2015-12-26T09:31:11  <CodeShark> ergo, it's a hard fork
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 309 2015-12-26T09:33:44  <CodeShark> I might not have stated this very clearly
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 324 2015-12-26T09:39:28  <CodeShark> point is this feature is independent of the specifics of the scheme used to blind the hasher
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 329 2015-12-26T09:40:41  <CodeShark> a soft fork would require H(header) to be no larger than it could have been before for a given bits value
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 336 2015-12-26T09:42:36  <maaku> CodeShark: you could step down the v1 difficulty over time, moving it into v2 difficulty
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 338 2015-12-26T09:42:47  <maaku> it is possible to turn into a soft-fork, if that were really desired
 339 2015-12-26T09:43:05  <CodeShark> not sure I follow
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 342 2015-12-26T09:43:57  <CodeShark> are you talking about something other than jl2012's suggestion?
 343 2015-12-26T09:44:10  <maaku> I don't really know what jl2012's suggestion is
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 345 2015-12-26T09:44:16  <maaku> I'm following this from first principles
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 350 2015-12-26T09:44:39  <CodeShark> you step down the difficulty by artificially increasing block time interval
 351 2015-12-26T09:45:07  <CodeShark> how else can you step down the difficulty over time?
 352 2015-12-26T09:45:16  <maaku> oh you're worried about the diff adjustment algorithm? do spv nodes really verify that?
 353 2015-12-26T09:45:41  <CodeShark> I'm not just talking about SPV nodes
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 356 2015-12-26T09:46:53  <CodeShark> if spv nodes do not really verify that then it could be deployed as an spv-compatible hard fork...in principle spv nodes should verify that
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 358 2015-12-26T09:47:16  <CodeShark> but my main concern is for full nodes
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 366 2015-12-26T09:55:07  <CodeShark> we cannot change CalculateNextWorkRequired and CheckProofOfWork to be more permissive (without changing their inputs)
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 368 2015-12-26T09:55:21  <CodeShark> and have a soft fork
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 371 2015-12-26T09:56:17  <CodeShark> Specifically, CheckProofOfWork would have to take an extra input not visible to the hasher
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 417 2015-12-26T10:20:55  <jl2012> maaku: this is my softfork idea for block withholding attack: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/012051.html
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 419 2015-12-26T10:21:04  <jl2012> that's very inefficient
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 475 2015-12-26T10:47:58  <CodeShark> jl2012's idea can be summed up as follows (I think) - since we can't make PoW on headers (without requiring external data) less restrictive, we make it more restrictive but siphon off some of the extra difficulty for use in blinded PoW
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 484 2015-12-26T10:51:58  <jl2012> the header PoW still becomes less restrictive. With a constant hash rate, the main difficulty will become 1/16 after 10 years
 485 2015-12-26T10:53:19  <CodeShark> well, the rest of the siphoned off difficulty is used to increase block interval which has the effect of making it less restrictive after the next retarget
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 487 2015-12-26T10:53:50  <jl2012> yes
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 493 2015-12-26T10:55:35  <CodeShark> but more restrictive over the present retarget period
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 498 2015-12-26T10:56:25  <CodeShark> We always must be more restrictive in the present than before
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 507 2015-12-26T11:02:29  <CodeShark> Before meaning before the soft fork
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 989 2015-12-26T15:52:56  <Mazer> HI, can anyone hellp with bitcoind setup?
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 993 2015-12-26T15:55:00  <haakonn> Mazer:  sounds like a question that is better suited in #bitcoin
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1084 2015-12-26T16:34:47  <jl2012> I'm rewriting the segwit address bip: https://github.com/jl2012/bips/blob/segwit-address2/bip-segwitaddress.mediawiki
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1087 2015-12-26T16:36:12  <jl2012> 2 new address types are proposed. One is Base58 encoded and is only for P2PKH segwit. The other one is Base32 with Damm algorithm and is for general witness program
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1166 2015-12-26T17:07:12  <haakonn> is it possible to temporarily ban matsjj? joining/quitting is creating a lot of noise
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1272 2015-12-26T17:50:40  <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, ^
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1294 2015-12-26T17:58:25  * BlueMatt -> SFO -> EWR -> FRA -> HAM......anyone else gonna be in hamburg for 32c3?
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1309 2015-12-26T18:02:59  <maaku> jl2012: for base32 consider using this alphabet : http://philzimmermann.com/docs/human-oriented-base-32-encoding.txt
1310 2015-12-26T18:03:07  <maaku> (and direct quesitons about it to zooko)
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1318 2015-12-26T18:04:52  <maaku> jl2012: to save you time, here's the Damm table : http://0bin.net/paste/+ykp++5bK7leB8NU#RTGpYDmtXGCi1Pt5W5mou2MQ0jxFO3sfFExzN-Pi0Fl
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1323 2015-12-26T18:05:51  <maaku> and the code that generated it : http://0bin.net/paste/hbUsaHtTbEft8QIx#IbxElizsKTDYEG+YVoqmWQc89lrrrn3X71DlSRb2mLc
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1331 2015-12-26T18:09:25  <maaku> also, I look forward to all the "where's the Damm algorithm?" and "here's the Damm encoding" jokes
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1337 2015-12-26T18:12:22  <jl2012> thanks maaku. We can decide the character set later
1338 2015-12-26T18:12:46  <jl2012> do you understand my example? Does it seem secure?
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1344 2015-12-26T18:13:47  <jl2012> for example, in the first round checksum, I calculate damm(BR000), damm(00000) ..... damm(XW25C)
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1346 2015-12-26T18:14:16  <jl2012> and the checksum is appended to the end of each segment
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1350 2015-12-26T18:15:02  <jl2012> then the second round is damm(B00E0UNERGX), damm(R00T8P7GVDW) .....
1351 2015-12-26T18:15:18  <jl2012> and append the checksums to the end of the address
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1353 2015-12-26T18:16:13  <jl2012> maybe the "checksum of checksum" at the very end is not needed. Then it's 71 digits in total
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1445 2015-12-26T19:02:09  <dgenr8> http://www.the-wabe.com/notebook/second-system.html
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1514 2015-12-26T20:45:30  <sturles> BlueMatt: I'm usually there every year, but unfortunately not this year. :-(
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1555 2015-12-26T21:15:34  <Jdillinger> How can you make a big coin account
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1560 2015-12-26T21:16:32  <Jdillinger> How can you make a bitcoin account
1561 2015-12-26T21:16:36  <haakonn> Jdillinger:  please ask in #bitcoin instead
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1564 2015-12-26T21:17:13  <Jdillinger> #bitcoin
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1570 2015-12-26T21:19:25  *** raedah_ is now known as raedah
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1574 2015-12-26T21:20:21  *** matsjj_ has quit IRC
1575 2015-12-26T21:20:26  <Jdillinger> I'm  confuse
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1578 2015-12-26T21:21:00  *** matsjj has quit IRC
1579 2015-12-26T21:21:02  <haakonn> Jdillinger:  to go to the #bitcoin chat room, type this:
1580 2015-12-26T21:21:06  <haakonn> /join #bitcoin
1581 2015-12-26T21:21:58  <Jdillinger> Join #bitcoin
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1583 2015-12-26T21:22:30  <haakonn> with a / (slash) in front
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