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35 2015-12-29T00:42:46 <warren> How much bandwidth does a listening full node consume?
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37 2015-12-29T00:44:59 <sipa> 0.12 will have -blocksonly mode, which can run with avg 2 KiB/s or so
38 2015-12-29T00:48:33 <warren> sipa: would it help the network for -blocksonly to be listening?
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40 2015-12-29T00:54:00 <sipa> warren: define "help the network"
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42 2015-12-29T00:58:13 <Dizzle> Another node running, even with -blocksonly would add to the blockchain's availability. So it would help in that sense.
43 2015-12-29T01:00:01 <warren> Dizzle: if a great many nodes don't relay transactions, could have a negative effect, and would encourage more nodes to increase their outbound connection count.
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45 2015-12-29T01:02:20 <Dizzle> Right
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229 2015-12-29T07:55:34 <HoloIRCUser4> congrats, guys
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257 2015-12-29T09:30:33 <jl2012> my comments for sipa 's segwit commitment code: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/86516919286c6f322df75ce770a19f4402596ccf
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290 2015-12-29T10:35:08 <Yoghur114> regarding the deployment of SW on a separate testnet (reading the capacity increase faq): why is this? Is it not valuable to see, exactly, how SW TXs and pre-SW UTXOs behave when encountered by old nodes? It would more accurately reflect what might happen on Bitcoin proper I would say.
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293 2015-12-29T10:42:15 <Luke-Jr> so my 0.10-based node has been stuck at 12 days behind (now) for about 4 days or so.. getchaintips shows the current chain as headers-only; getpeerinfo shows nothing inflight and multiple peers with synced_headers correct
294 2015-12-29T10:42:31 <Luke-Jr> restarting the node multiple times in those 4 days has done nothing to improve the situation
295 2015-12-29T10:43:25 <Luke-Jr> prior to this situation (and why it's clearly not an emergency), my node had segfaulted and needed to reindex
296 2015-12-29T10:44:15 <Luke-Jr> curiously, the next block 0000000000000000077152ba5cde04dbc4afa243ad33022ab2d2cbb3c28dd9c4 is getblock-able
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302 2015-12-29T10:48:24 <Luke-Jr> aha
303 2015-12-29T10:48:27 <Luke-Jr> 2015-12-25 01:51:39 ERROR: ConnectBlock() : inputs missing/spent
304 2015-12-29T10:48:29 <Luke-Jr> 2015-12-25 01:51:39 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=0000000000000000077152ba5cde04dbc4afa243ad33022ab2d2cbb3c28dd9c4
305 2015-12-29T10:48:31 <Luke-Jr> height=388736 log2_work=83.751138 date=2015-12-16 15:42:16
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313 2015-12-29T10:54:55 <Luke-Jr> hm, reconsiderblock actually worked..
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336 2015-12-29T11:52:54 <sipa> Yoghur114: of course, but how do you suppose we test that?
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345 2015-12-29T12:07:04 <Yoghur114> sipa: on the current testnet - I see no clear reason to spin off a new one other than starting off with a clean slate - admittedly, all necessary conditions can be replicated on a new testnet, but why?
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373 2015-12-29T13:08:04 <jl2012> Yoghur114 It shouldn't be tested on the current testnet until the code is stable. A lot of bug fix and reset is expected
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397 2015-12-29T13:48:03 <Yoghur114> jl2012: Why is a testnet reset expected? I mean, I'm not opposed to it - but I don't understand the reason for it.
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401 2015-12-29T13:49:28 <jl2012> Bugs in consensus code, new features, etc
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408 2015-12-29T14:05:01 <maaku> Yoghur114: it is standard practice to use a separate testnet for things which have not merged into core yet
409 2015-12-29T14:05:15 <maaku> it keeps from disrupting people who are using testnet for other things
410 2015-12-29T14:05:48 <maaku> but this is NOT a testnet reset; the same testnet would keep being used. and once SW merges, it will probably activate first on testnet
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416 2015-12-29T14:10:53 <jl2012> maaku, I mean reset of segwit testnet, aka segnet
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436 2015-12-29T14:36:28 <jl2012> sipa, have you completely rewritten the CHECKSIG serialization in segwit?
437 2015-12-29T14:37:23 <sipa> jl2012: yup
438 2015-12-29T14:37:34 <sipa> it fixes the O(n^2) sighashing
439 2015-12-29T14:37:43 <sipa> and adds amount under signature
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441 2015-12-29T14:38:03 <jl2012> the amount is mandatory, right?
442 2015-12-29T14:38:11 <sipa> yup
443 2015-12-29T14:38:46 <jl2012> do you want to use another OP codes, or still the same codes?
444 2015-12-29T14:39:01 <jl2012> e.g. CHECKSIG2 with one of the unused code
445 2015-12-29T14:39:09 <sipa> the same ones; you don't solve a DoS attack by making it optional :)
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447 2015-12-29T14:39:28 <jl2012> you can disable the old one in segwit
448 2015-12-29T14:39:49 <sipa> that's a possibility, indeed
449 2015-12-29T14:39:56 <jl2012> just better for documentation
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452 2015-12-29T14:40:21 <sipa> anyway, i consider this to be a preview of sorts... it's a delicate balance between complicating segwit, and fixing problems upfront
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454 2015-12-29T14:40:33 <Luke-Jr> sipa: is there a way to do completely malleable-proof signatures?
455 2015-12-29T14:40:34 <jl2012> yes
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457 2015-12-29T14:40:55 <sipa> Luke-Jr: you'll need to define malleability :)
458 2015-12-29T14:41:04 <Luke-Jr> sipa: CoinJoin and RBF included
459 2015-12-29T14:41:34 <Luke-Jr> that is, for each input sign only the scriptPubKey hash [and amount?]
460 2015-12-29T14:41:35 <sipa> EC based signatures are always malleability
461 2015-12-29T14:41:49 <jl2012> the random k, right?
462 2015-12-29T14:41:49 <Luke-Jr> in terms of spending
463 2015-12-29T14:41:50 <sipa> by those who were able to sign in the first place
464 2015-12-29T14:42:20 <Luke-Jr> that is, as long as 1someaddress is paid 5 BTC exactly, my signature should remain valid regardless of that transaction paying it
465 2015-12-29T14:42:21 <sipa> there are signature schemes which are unique (every message and private key combination only has one single valid signature)
466 2015-12-29T14:43:11 <Luke-Jr> any third party can modify the transaction I signed, to update the final txid/index which paid 1someaddress
467 2015-12-29T14:43:42 <sipa> Luke-Jr: segwit will not allow anyone to modify the transaction you signed (at least not in a way that affects its txid)
468 2015-12-29T14:44:01 <sipa> except people who have access to the used private keys
469 2015-12-29T14:44:05 <Luke-Jr> sigh :<
470 2015-12-29T14:44:18 <Luke-Jr> so it actually makes malleability worse in some ways?
471 2015-12-29T14:44:23 <sipa> i don't understand
472 2015-12-29T14:45:20 <Luke-Jr> Joe pays me 1 BTC at 1someaddress; I want to spend that unconfirmed UTXO in such a way that Joe can RBF it with a CoinJoin without breaking my own transaction spending it.
473 2015-12-29T14:45:47 <Luke-Jr> so my signature needs to cover *only* the sPK+amount, nothing else about Joe's transaction at all
474 2015-12-29T14:46:11 <sipa> you need something like sighash_noinput as proposed by the lightning guys
475 2015-12-29T14:51:38 <jl2012> sighash_noinput is not safe if an address is reused. However, if the output includes a nonce in this form: <nonce> DROP <key> CHECKSIG, and the signature could cover the nonce, that would be safe
476 2015-12-29T14:52:02 <jl2012> assuming the nonce is not reused, of course
477 2015-12-29T14:53:04 <sipa> it still wouldn't solve malleability, but at least it makes it harmless
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484 2015-12-29T15:01:05 <jl2012> another BIP is needed for the new CHECKSIG. I can try to do it if you don't mind
485 2015-12-29T15:02:08 <jl2012> as an exercise for me to learning reading codes
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487 2015-12-29T15:02:27 <sipa> feel free, though i think that's a bit premature
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499 2015-12-29T15:13:02 <Luke-Jr> jl2012: any wallet implementing such signatures would need to strongly reject any ruse
500 2015-12-29T15:13:05 <Luke-Jr> reuse*
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502 2015-12-29T15:13:41 <sipa> you can't prevent others from reusing your addresses
503 2015-12-29T15:13:44 <Luke-Jr> ie, even if it learns about a second transaction, it should at the very least show it as never confirmed until spent
504 2015-12-29T15:13:54 <Luke-Jr> sipa: you can refuse to honour it as a valid payment
505 2015-12-29T15:14:04 <Luke-Jr> the sender is at fault in that case
506 2015-12-29T15:14:47 <Luke-Jr> it's no different than them modifying the scriptPubKey in some unexpected way
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524 2015-12-29T15:42:44 <arioBarzan> how difficult would be for add a custom feature to rpc signrawtransaction, for giving specific "nonce" to be passed to secp256k1_ecdsa_sig_sign ?
525 2015-12-29T15:44:05 <sipa> i would not accept that in bitcoin core (way to easy to shoot yourself in the foot), but you're doing it as an experiment, i'll gladly advise
526 2015-12-29T15:44:41 <arioBarzan> sipa: just for my own personal use
527 2015-12-29T15:45:07 <sipa> may i ask why?
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534 2015-12-29T15:48:13 <arioBarzan> I have done secp256k1 signing with the help of GNU bc calculator, just to learn the mathematics behind it.
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536 2015-12-29T15:49:48 <arioBarzan> As I understood, the random number is the most important part that people should trust
537 2015-12-29T15:50:14 <sipa> it doesn't need to be random
538 2015-12-29T15:50:19 <sipa> just unpredictable
539 2015-12-29T15:50:40 <sipa> in the current implementation, we follow RFC6979, which computes the nonce deterministically from the message and the private key
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541 2015-12-29T15:57:42 <arioBarzan> sipa: for calculating r = x1 mod n from (x1,y1) = k {point multiplication} G
542 2015-12-29T15:57:53 <arioBarzan> is k the nonce you used?
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547 2015-12-29T15:59:33 <sipa> arioBarzan: that k is computed as a hash of the private key and the message currently
548 2015-12-29T15:59:42 <sipa> read rfc6979
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566 2015-12-29T16:19:03 <arioBarzan> apparently I need to pass my own noncefp to secp256k1_ecdsa_sign() and that nonce-function should directly deliver exact nonce32 from signrawtransaction. digging a tunnel through signrawtransaction secp256k1_ecdsa_sign() and probably other stuff. hopefully it would be fun ;)
567 2015-12-29T16:20:12 <sipa> yup, you need your own noncefp
568 2015-12-29T16:20:33 <sipa> there is one that does this in the tests
569 2015-12-29T16:20:57 <arioBarzan> sipa: thanks a lot
570 2015-12-29T16:21:07 <phantomcircuit> sounds like this is going to involve some pretty comical hacks
571 2015-12-29T16:21:10 <phantomcircuit> :P
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573 2015-12-29T16:23:43 <ceejep> { return 1; }
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577 2015-12-29T16:32:01 <instagibbs> ceejep, looks random to me
578 2015-12-29T16:32:50 <sipa> 4 would be randomer
579 2015-12-29T16:33:52 <instagibbs> You predicted 4. It was 1. That's unpredictability right there.
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582 2015-12-29T16:36:44 <arioBarzan> imho it would be worthwhile, since attacking the nonce would be probably the only cyrptographic way of getting hand on key which is used on a secure air-gapped system.
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587 2015-12-29T16:40:49 <arioBarzan> remember geohot's success on PS3 ?
588 2015-12-29T16:41:17 <sipa> arioBarzan: what would 'attacking the nonce' mean?
589 2015-12-29T16:41:24 <sipa> read RFC6979 please
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593 2015-12-29T16:48:27 <jl2012> why the nSequence of other inputs are not signed when using SIGHASH_NONE or SIGHASH_SINGLE?
594 2015-12-29T16:52:32 <arioBarzan> jl2012: because others be able to add their own inputs and outputs with higher nSequence
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596 2015-12-29T16:54:42 <arioBarzan> if you sign nSequence, you prevent it from getting updated.
597 2015-12-29T16:57:09 <jl2012> thanks
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682 2015-12-29T20:49:08 <toofani> help
683 2015-12-29T20:49:42 <toofani> how to get start with minnig
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698 2015-12-29T21:29:22 <t7> wrong channel ?
699 2015-12-29T21:29:31 <t7> #bitcoin
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