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15 2016-01-13T00:26:05 <StephenM347> Any expected release time for 0.12.0? Isn't 0.12.0 the first release using Pieter W's secp256k1 library with a big verification speed boost?
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17 2016-01-13T00:28:30 <morcos> StephenM347: yes, and hopefully not long now, early february? Release Candidate 1 is expected any day
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35 2016-01-13T01:06:33 <StephenM347> morcos: cool, thanks for the info
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53 2016-01-13T01:30:09 <Luke-Jr> StephenM347: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/011182.html
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137 2016-01-13T03:47:52 <brg444> question: there was talk of building bridges between the chinese mining and dev community with western actors at ScalingBitcoin, anyone know if there was progress made toward this
138 2016-01-13T03:50:06 <brg444> I'm was honestly dumbfounded to read wangchun , someone from the chinese community who was in the past postin the dev mailing list seemingly "discover" Core's roadmap just today! :/
139 2016-01-13T03:50:13 <brg444> I
140 2016-01-13T03:50:35 <AdrianG> link?
141 2016-01-13T03:51:42 <brg444> somewhere in the logs
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144 2016-01-13T03:55:07 <jtoomim> i had an idea of building a translated/moderated email list, but haven't finished it yet
145 2016-01-13T03:55:12 <jtoomim> brg444
146 2016-01-13T03:55:33 <brg444> cool
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148 2016-01-13T03:55:43 <brg444> I really feel like this is sorely needed
149 2016-01-13T03:55:57 <jtoomim> yeah, i agree
150 2016-01-13T03:56:14 <jtoomim> in wangchun's case i don't think it would have helped too much, since his english is pretty good
151 2016-01-13T03:56:26 <jtoomim> and since the roadmap FAQ has been translated into chinese
152 2016-01-13T03:56:30 <brg444> it really is inconceivable that we stay so out of touch with such an important part of the economy
153 2016-01-13T03:56:40 <brg444> right
154 2016-01-13T03:56:45 <jtoomim> i also thought wangchun signed the document in support of the roadmap almost a month ago, which is weird
155 2016-01-13T03:57:25 <brg444> but it brings me to question what information other miners have with regards to their plan and if their input has been considered and discussed
156 2016-01-13T03:57:41 <brg444> I mean Core's plan
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158 2016-01-13T03:57:55 <jtoomim> yes, and also if they've had a chance to review the objections
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160 2016-01-13T03:58:21 <Luke-Jr> brg444: they (some?) Chinese miners wanted everyone to use some spyware chat thing that requires an Android device. someone got me in, but it keeps dying and I haven't bothered to rejoin it in a few days. It was virtually silent anyway, and the little that was said, was in Chinese.
161 2016-01-13T03:58:32 <jtoomim> WeChat
162 2016-01-13T03:58:38 <Luke-Jr> yeah
163 2016-01-13T03:58:45 <jtoomim> yeah, i'm on that
164 2016-01-13T03:58:48 <jtoomim> the chinese are nuts about wechat
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166 2016-01-13T03:58:56 <jtoomim> err, i'm going to have to go silent for a bit, sorry
167 2016-01-13T03:59:10 <Luke-Jr> â¦
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169 2016-01-13T04:00:24 <brg444> Luke-Jr Is there anyone from Core that has attempted to communicate with them. Do you know if there's been any contact since the conferences?
170 2016-01-13T04:00:51 <Luke-Jr> brg444: well, I was there for a few days at least; but there's no real communication
171 2016-01-13T04:01:09 <Luke-Jr> I hear more from wangchun on IRC, than everyone on WeChat..
172 2016-01-13T04:01:52 <brg444> Right. I'm just wondering out it is other people seemingly have no issue getting into their ears..
173 2016-01-13T04:01:54 <brg444> Oh well
174 2016-01-13T04:02:10 <brg444> why it is*
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179 2016-01-13T04:12:09 <zooko> Luke-Jr: did you see the WeChat translation feature?
180 2016-01-13T04:12:18 <zooko> Is wangchun a miner?
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182 2016-01-13T04:12:40 <zooko> brg444: I think it is easy for people to underestimate just how difficult communication is.
183 2016-01-13T04:12:59 <zooko> People just being completely unaware of major, critical stuff that is visible on the Web is quite common.
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185 2016-01-13T04:13:31 <zooko> There's always a social bubble effect, where everyone that you talk to (about this topic) has a lot of shared knowledge, and so you naturally assume that everyone else who also cares about that also has most of that knowledge.
186 2016-01-13T04:13:33 <Luke-Jr> zooko: no, there is no such feature in the web version
187 2016-01-13T04:13:44 <zooko> But, then sometimes you ping out right when I'm talknig to you, see? Communication.
188 2016-01-13T04:13:51 <zooko> Luke-Jr: Ah.
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347 2016-01-13T09:16:55 <mnk> Here's the video of the Bitcoin Meetup in Berlin from yesterday. Topics include: Interledger by Ripple, The Global Chained Delivery Network by RWE and a bit on Ethereum in Q&A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pyH5BlXBtM
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482 2016-01-13T14:05:07 <cjcj> How can I initiate a reorg in regtest mode? Is there some rpc call that allows me to build new blocks on older blocks?
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485 2016-01-13T14:09:09 <lorenzoasr> cjcj, you could disconnect a node from your regtest network, then continue generating blocks in parallel
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487 2016-01-13T14:09:18 <lorenzoasr> and then link back
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491 2016-01-13T14:24:31 <Lightsword> Luke-Jr, âin fact, can't really do that accurately unless you kill the relay network for a dayâ well that wouldnt really make it accurate either since the Chinese pools mine on stratum headers
492 2016-01-13T14:31:08 <rael_wiki> hello, I am trying to send a raw transaction but I keep failing for "insufficient priority". As far as I understood the priority of a tx is computed as the sum of satoshis*input_age for every input divided by the size of the tx in bytes. I can't come up with a way to tweak these parameters so that my tx has a high enough priority (one way would be to wait for the inputs to be old enough but that would slow down my entire system by a large amount of
493 2016-01-13T14:32:21 <rael_wiki> time, another way would be to spend very large inputs but I can't be sure my inputs will always be large enough). I noticed that I can avoid the priority check altogether just by increasing the transaction's fee, but I am not sure how to balance it to make sure that every transaction will be sent. Any help?
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525 2016-01-13T15:18:53 <morcos> rael_wiki: sending a tx without sufficient fee is a pretty risky idea these days unless you really know what you are doing. i would recommend making sure you have sufficient fee.
526 2016-01-13T15:19:04 <morcos> this is more a question for #bitcoin though
527 2016-01-13T15:20:21 <rael_wiki> thank you morcos, I see your point. The problem is that I am producing a tx with a fee of 2756 satoshis for 226 bytes, so I don't understand why the fee should be considered too lwo
528 2016-01-13T15:20:45 <rael_wiki> as far as I know, one should use around 1000 satoshis per kb, right?
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533 2016-01-13T15:28:01 <aj> rael_wiki: 5000 satoshis per kB is minrelay, 10000 satoshi/kB is closer to normal
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538 2016-01-13T15:28:55 <rael_wiki> all right, aj, thanks a lot, I thought it were 1000 satoshis per kB
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540 2016-01-13T15:29:54 <aj> rael_wiki: http://www.cointape.com/ might be helpful for a sanity check
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542 2016-01-13T15:30:40 <aj> rael_wiki: (see "estimatefee" using a bitcoin full node also)
543 2016-01-13T15:31:12 <rael_wiki> aj: thanks a lot for the pointers!
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556 2016-01-13T15:52:49 <deadalnix> why hosts do not serve the genesis block on getblocks requsts without locators ?
557 2016-01-13T15:56:10 <deadalnix> is the only to checkout the genesis block is to explicitly ask for it ?
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559 2016-01-13T15:59:03 <gavinandresen> cjcj : you can use invalidateblock / reconsiderblock to create re-org scenarios in regtest mode.
560 2016-01-13T15:59:26 <gavinandresen> cjcj : grep for those in qa/rpc-tests for examples
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565 2016-01-13T16:06:37 <cjcj> gavinandresen: Thanks!
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567 2016-01-13T16:08:40 <Chris_Stewart_5> When you call the getrawtransaction 0 is that the same serialized format that is used by nodes on the network?
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576 2016-01-13T16:20:02 <gavinandresen> Chris_Stewart_5: yes, but in hex not binary.
577 2016-01-13T16:20:29 <gavinandresen> Chris_Stewart_5: ... and network messages have headers and checksums around the data, of course...
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580 2016-01-13T16:20:54 <Chris_Stewart_5> Thanks gavinandresen :-)
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589 2016-01-13T16:29:58 <murch> gavinandresen: You had stated somewhere (I think it was reddit) that a lot of the development going into 0.12 would have to be redone/reorganised. Could you elaborate?
590 2016-01-13T16:31:41 <murch> (Or if you wrote more about that and could give me a link that would be marvelous)
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611 2016-01-13T17:13:46 <deadalnix> gavinandresen: +1 with murch requests, i'd like to know more
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636 2016-01-13T17:51:31 <bsm117532> What is bitcoin's p2p relay algorithm called? I remember a word like whisper or rumor or chatter or something?
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639 2016-01-13T17:56:02 <bsm117532> e.g. what's the name of the algorithm which re-broadcasts messages that have not been seen by peers, the way bitcoin does?
640 2016-01-13T17:56:57 <gavinandresen> bsm117532: it's a dumb gossip algorithm.
641 2016-01-13T17:57:09 <bsm117532> gossip!!! That's it! Thanks!
642 2016-01-13T17:57:31 <gavinandresen> murch: really? I don't remember ever saying that. Maybe you have me confused with mike hearn.
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645 2016-01-13T17:58:34 <gavinandresen> There's lots of great stuff in 0.12
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648 2016-01-13T18:04:58 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: while you're here, I just want to clarify to what extent you support "Classic" (I'm seeing a lot of claims I *know* is false about the project)
649 2016-01-13T18:05:08 <Luke-Jr> s/support/are involved with/
650 2016-01-13T18:05:13 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: I'm writing a blog post about that right now!
651 2016-01-13T18:05:22 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: ah, great, I'll just wait and read that then
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654 2016-01-13T18:06:23 <lorenzoasr> i noticed that doing lot of concurrent requests from ~10 processes to a single 0.11 node in regtest through python-bitcoinlib causes the node to stop responding, until I stop all processes, then it aswers all the past requests. After some testing I noticed that often different processes used the same id for rpc requests. Modifying the library so that all processes always use different ids apparently fixes the problem. Does this make any sense ?
655 2016-01-13T18:07:02 <Luke-Jr> lorenzoasr: interesting; the entire RPC server was redone for 0.12, but I hadn't heard that correlation before
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700 2016-01-13T18:10:02 <lorenzoasr> Luke-Jr, is there any locking policy which depends on request ids ? it seems like a deadlock problem to me
701 2016-01-13T18:11:25 <Luke-Jr> lorenzoasr: I would be surprised if there was anything that used the id other than the reply serialiser
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703 2016-01-13T18:13:12 <lorenzoasr> Luke-Jr, me too, but then I can't see a reason for this problem. At the moment using redis as unique id generator seems to fix this problem, that's why I thought that could be the problem
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751 2016-01-13T18:25:00 <StephenM347> I just pulled and built bitcoind for the first time in a while (OS X). It seems to build fine but I get many many warnings for 'warning: unused typedef 'boost_static_assert_typedef_1256' [-Wunused-local-typedef]'. Is this normal/expected?
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765 2016-01-13T18:29:55 <NikolaTesla> Hi guys, is anyone here working on Bitcoin related Automatic Trading Algo ?
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768 2016-01-13T18:31:32 <phantomcircuit> NikolaTesla, off topic
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777 2016-01-13T18:40:53 <NikolaTesla> sorry ...
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782 2016-01-13T18:49:21 <Dizzle> You can try #bitcoin and ##bitcoin. If it's a good trader, they probably wouldn't be keen to share what they're working on though :)
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797 2016-01-13T19:12:11 <NikolaTesla> Thanks Dizzle, tryed on #R-Finance as I thought it was more in-topic there ... actually it seems it is
798 2016-01-13T19:12:24 <Dizzle> groovy
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870 2016-01-13T20:57:26 <jtimon> tomorrow I'm going to ask people to review #7091 #7287 #7311 and #7310 if libconsensus encapsulation can be a topic within the meeting
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937 2016-01-13T22:22:50 <David______> Hi everyone
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940 2016-01-13T22:22:58 <David______> Need some help
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946 2016-01-13T22:34:50 <maaku> David______: ask, don't ask to ask
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973 2016-01-13T23:11:14 <nwilcox> Can anyone direct me to an explanation for "There is no from address" in the topic?
974 2016-01-13T23:12:16 <Luke-Jr> http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/From_address
975 2016-01-13T23:12:24 <nwilcox> Thanks.
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980 2016-01-13T23:18:50 <benjyz1> Luke-Jr: you wrote about soft-forks /hard-forks in the recent bitcoin.org core post
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982 2016-01-13T23:19:34 <Luke-Jr> benjyz1: ?
983 2016-01-13T23:19:37 <Luke-Jr> what about it?
984 2016-01-13T23:19:38 <benjyz1> https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org/pull/1194
985 2016-01-13T23:20:09 <benjyz1> > On the contrary, softfork/hardfork are indeed very well-defined. A softfork is any change which adds new rules to the consensus protocol,
986 2016-01-13T23:20:17 <benjyz1> I'm wondering what you mean by rules...
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988 2016-01-13T23:20:53 <Luke-Jr> benjyz1: a consensus system like Bitcoin works by every node enforcing a set of "consensus rules" on inputs (in this case, new blocks)
989 2016-01-13T23:21:25 <benjyz1> how do you distinguish between "rules" and the entire codebase?
990 2016-01-13T23:21:54 <benjyz1> what part of bitcoin-core could I change without invalidating those rules
991 2016-01-13T23:22:21 <benjyz1> that's not deterministic...
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993 2016-01-13T23:25:01 <benjyz1> if I understand correctly lib-consensus aims at more or less this. separating out particular code as consensus code
994 2016-01-13T23:25:30 <Luke-Jr> benjyz1: you understand correctly.
995 2016-01-13T23:25:49 <Luke-Jr> benjyz1: basically, if a piece of code can cause a block to be rejected as invalid, it is a consensus rule
996 2016-01-13T23:26:04 <Luke-Jr> all nodes within the system must accept the same blocks and reject the same blocks
997 2016-01-13T23:26:20 <Luke-Jr> otherwise, they will disagree and fail to come to a consensus
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999 2016-01-13T23:27:00 <benjyz1> thx for the info. trying to understand how could SegWit be a soft-fork
1000 2016-01-13T23:27:47 <CodeShark> it would be possible to structure the consensus codebase such that each test either fails (upon which the entire check fails for the entire block) or succeeds and gets chained or nested
1001 2016-01-13T23:28:04 <CodeShark> then it would be deterministic to check whether a change is a soft fork
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1003 2016-01-13T23:28:59 <CodeShark> the only requirement is that the tests be stateless/without side effects
1004 2016-01-13T23:30:14 <Luke-Jr> benjyz1: if more than 50% of miners decide a block that was previously valid, is now invalid, the nodes which accept it will reject it as soon as those miners make a longer chain
1005 2016-01-13T23:32:01 <benjyz1> can a node deduce what software produced the block? I guess no
1006 2016-01-13T23:32:55 <nwilcox> benjyz1: You have a good intuition though because a lot of code may implicitly affect consensus even if no human maintainers realize it, such as https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2013-03-11-chain-fork
1007 2016-01-13T23:34:02 <Luke-Jr> benjyz1: not unless something like SNARKs are used, but that's bleeding edge stuff
1008 2016-01-13T23:34:03 <nwilcox> The goal of libconsensus, as I understand it, is to help us humans reduce the chance that there is code affecting the consensus in unexpected ways.
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1011 2016-01-13T23:35:07 <CodeShark> oh, right - another requirement is that each test itself be deterministic
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1013 2016-01-13T23:36:18 <CodeShark> which is not a trivial problem :)
1014 2016-01-13T23:37:17 <CodeShark> but yeah, we can break it down into small chunks which we can rigorously test
1015 2016-01-13T23:37:26 <CodeShark> and review
1016 2016-01-13T23:38:29 <benjyz1> Luke-Jr: I looked at Snark's and Zero-Knowledge and am skeptical of its use. some code might appear deterministic when it is not
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1018 2016-01-13T23:39:09 <benjyz1> some of the foundations of this cryptography seems pretty shaky to me. AFAIK these things are not widely used
1019 2016-01-13T23:39:39 <Luke-Jr> benjyz1: yes, just answering the question ;)
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1021 2016-01-13T23:42:00 <benjyz1> yes, thanks. and the relationship between SegWit and consensus? BIP141 is titled "Segregated Witness (Consensus layer)"
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1023 2016-01-13T23:42:58 <CodeShark> there are multiple BIPs, benjyz1, as per BIP123's recommendations
1024 2016-01-13T23:43:25 <CodeShark> segwit requires changes to at least three if not all four layers
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1026 2016-01-13T23:44:32 <Luke-Jr> so BIP 141 will define the new rules that blocks must pass before acceptance
1027 2016-01-13T23:46:03 <benjyz1> does this increase ability to implement some kind of settlement layer?
1028 2016-01-13T23:46:29 <CodeShark> yes - the fix to malleability allows more sophisticated off-chain protocols
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1030 2016-01-13T23:47:47 <benjyz1> Hal Finney had some interesting thoughts on scalability back in 2010 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2500.msg34211#msg34211
1031 2016-01-13T23:48:12 <benjyz1> "Bitcoin backed banks will solve these problems."
1032 2016-01-13T23:48:52 <Luke-Jr> benjyz1: Lightning may possibly make them unnecessary :p
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1034 2016-01-13T23:49:31 <benjyz1> it would have to be a kind of credit system in any case
1035 2016-01-13T23:50:32 <Luke-Jr> yes and no; it's trustless
1036 2016-01-13T23:51:16 <moa> "trustless credit"?
1037 2016-01-13T23:51:23 <CodeShark> entry into the system might require creditors
1038 2016-01-13T23:52:04 <CodeShark> you can't open channels without making a deposit
1039 2016-01-13T23:52:27 <benjyz1> most likely hubs would have to follow KYC/AML procedures, like Bitcoin exchanges
1040 2016-01-13T23:52:44 <CodeShark> only if they have custody of others' funds
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1042 2016-01-13T23:52:45 <moa> benjyz1: no
1043 2016-01-13T23:53:28 <CodeShark> LN allows non-custodian hubs
1044 2016-01-13T23:53:37 <benjyz1> there needs to be some kind of liquidity they provide
1045 2016-01-13T23:53:52 <CodeShark> or custodial :p
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1047 2016-01-13T23:54:17 <moa> legal questions are outside technical dev. considerations anyway
1048 2016-01-13T23:54:53 <benjyz1> moa: hard to discuss money and AML/KYC without law
1049 2016-01-13T23:55:14 <moa> correct but you are on a technical dev IC channel
1050 2016-01-13T23:55:19 <moa> s/IRC
1051 2016-01-13T23:55:34 <benjyz1> this was about scalability
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1053 2016-01-13T23:56:52 <moa> so suggest you keep it about capacity increases and leave the wandering off into legal weeds for other forums
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1055 2016-01-13T23:57:00 <benjyz1> tbh, anyone in Bitcoin who wants to ban economic discussions is in the wrong place.
1056 2016-01-13T23:57:28 <CodeShark> I think you were doing fine until the topic of KYC/AML :)
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1058 2016-01-13T23:57:46 <benjyz1> I'm doing quite fine in any case.
1059 2016-01-13T23:57:46 <moa> it's simply about scope creep and remaining focussed to advance the discussion
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1062 2016-01-13T23:59:21 <benjyz1> almost all bitcoin flow through bitcoin company which have to deal with these things.
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