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69 2016-01-17T01:52:27 <zookolaptop> In praise of the Bitcoin Core devs: https://twitter.com/zooko/status/688527730619514880
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74 2016-01-17T02:08:17 <jtoomim_> any version bits devs in here? maybe sipa?
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130 2016-01-17T03:46:52 <instagibbs> CodeShark, jtimon(not here?), rusty(not here as well?)
131 2016-01-17T03:47:05 <instagibbs> those were the three taking stabs at it
132 2016-01-17T03:47:09 <instagibbs> that i know of
133 2016-01-17T03:47:39 <CodeShark> here but busy...
134 2016-01-17T03:48:15 <instagibbs> jtoomim_, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6816 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/master...jtimon:versionbits https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/master...rustyrussell:bip-9-versionbits?expand=1
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143 2016-01-17T04:10:08 <morcos> jtoomim_: i messaged you on slack. i might be taking on the mantle for core
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156 2016-01-17T04:32:40 <brg444> https://github.com/LightningNetwork/lightning-onion
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158 2016-01-17T04:41:50 <Tulsene> hello, I did some brainstorming I wanted to share with you. I have some lack of knowlege to share with you a complete white paper but at least you have the concept : http://pastebin.com/Hg7cxEWN
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185 2016-01-17T05:22:02 <btcdrak> morcos: there is no might, you took it according to the last IRC minutes :-P
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243 2016-01-17T07:42:43 <Guest73650> i loaded up bitcoin core into netbeans. everything build successfully. i want to step through the code, but i don't know where the main function is.
244 2016-01-17T07:42:51 <Guest73650> its not in main.cpp
245 2016-01-17T07:42:58 <Guest73650> i see one inside of bitcoind.cpp
246 2016-01-17T07:43:07 <Guest73650> is that the entry?
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253 2016-01-17T07:56:14 <Guest73650> hello?
254 2016-01-17T07:56:18 <Guest73650> is bitcoin dead?
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548 2016-01-17T16:59:43 <fredrin> Guest73650: bitcoind is the name of the executable
549 2016-01-17T17:00:22 <fredrin> Guest73650: by the way, bitcoin has died multiple times :)
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561 2016-01-17T17:26:35 <maaku> Look in init.cpp
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566 2016-01-17T17:31:26 <Snej_> hey any germans here to help a student creating a presentation about bitcoin?
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568 2016-01-17T17:32:52 <Snej_> what grants the btc's the value?
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583 2016-01-17T17:51:31 <jl2012> Snej_ #bitcoin
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611 2016-01-17T18:28:01 <dwn> hey all
612 2016-01-17T18:28:09 <dwn> looking for someone who has implemented OP_CHECKSIG before
613 2016-01-17T18:28:38 <dwn> I'm about to jump off a building trying to understand what TxNew and TxPrev represent in this https://en.bitcoin.it/w/images/en/7/70/Bitcoin_OpCheckSig_InDetail.png
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615 2016-01-17T18:29:02 <dwn> so
616 2016-01-17T18:29:07 <dwn> there's #s in the top charts
617 2016-01-17T18:29:13 <dwn> are those
618 2016-01-17T18:29:20 <dwn> like byte values? or sizes
619 2016-01-17T18:29:27 <dwn> 4, VI, 32, 4
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621 2016-01-17T18:29:56 <dwn> LIKE
622 2016-01-17T18:29:58 <dwn> like ok
623 2016-01-17T18:31:53 <dwn> we have our transaction we want to verify. it's in hexstring form 01..............00 00 00 00
624 2016-01-17T18:31:59 <dwn> like one input, one output
625 2016-01-17T18:32:26 <dwn> should I consider the input as TxNew and output as TxPrev? either way I look at it it doesn't seem to make sense according to that chart
626 2016-01-17T18:33:00 <dwn> the rest of the diagram makes sense if I could just figure out TxNew/TxPrev in context of a ctransaction of that type
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634 2016-01-17T18:38:01 <maaku> dwn: i suggest looking at the transaction serializer in the script code
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642 2016-01-17T18:51:57 <roconnor> dwn: TxPrev is the transaction containing the output coin being spend.
643 2016-01-17T18:52:23 <roconnor> TxNew is the transaction that contains an input that is spending said coin.
644 2016-01-17T18:53:23 <roconnor> The blocks and numbers is a representation of the serialization of a transaction.
645 2016-01-17T18:54:00 <roconnor> The numbers represents a block of data of n bytes
646 2016-01-17T18:55:49 <roconnor> some things are of variable length like the script
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648 2016-01-17T18:56:59 <roconnor> variable length blocks are prefixed by the serialization of a variable length integer to represent the number of items.
649 2016-01-17T18:57:14 <roconnor> these variable length integers are labeled VI
650 2016-01-17T18:57:33 <roconnor> so the VI just before the script represents the size of the script
651 2016-01-17T18:57:48 <roconnor> the VI just before the TxOuts represent the number of outputs
652 2016-01-17T18:57:58 <roconnor> the VI just before the TxIns represent the number of intputs
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658 2016-01-17T19:08:52 <dwn> roconnor: omg! thanks
659 2016-01-17T19:09:17 <dwn> roconnor: but, from my understanding...I have a single TX right? input is the target to give coins to, output is proof that you can spend it right?
660 2016-01-17T19:09:23 <dwn> why would they be two TXs?
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664 2016-01-17T19:20:34 <roconnor> dwn: each input of a TX has to be checked against the script authrozing the input coin to be spent. That script is found inside the tranasction that cointains the coin you are spending.
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695 2016-01-17T20:04:12 <Rebroad> so, I've just read BIPS 141 to 144... these all seem to help with increasing capacity, but none of them seem to address the long-term problem as overall they will increase capacity by just a one-time limited amount, won't they?
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697 2016-01-17T20:05:58 <Luke-Jr> even if we did absolutely nothing, capacity won't be a problem until 2020; segwit buys us maybe 5 more years to 2025; Lightning buys us a few decades
698 2016-01-17T20:08:10 <zzif> there are quite many almost full blocks: https://blockexplorer.com/
699 2016-01-17T20:09:25 <Lauda> Luke-Jr are you trying to say that blocks won't be mostly full until 2020?
700 2016-01-17T20:09:26 <zzif> it is likely to expect 100% increase in transaction count within 3-6 months
701 2016-01-17T20:09:38 <Luke-Jr> Lauda: yes
702 2016-01-17T20:09:58 <Luke-Jr> zzif: no, miners are padding them with spam because of mob harassment
703 2016-01-17T20:10:01 <Lauda> What if there's a trigger event increase the userbase by two times?
704 2016-01-17T20:10:13 <Lauda> that increases*
705 2016-01-17T20:10:16 <Luke-Jr> zzif: and no, growth has not been exponential and there is no reason to expect that to change until Bitcoin scales properly
706 2016-01-17T20:10:28 <Luke-Jr> Lauda: then we'll reach it sooner
707 2016-01-17T20:10:42 <Luke-Jr> Lauda: worst case we can do an emergency hardfork
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709 2016-01-17T20:11:30 <zzif> Luke-Jr: well, the transaction count has doubled since aug 15
710 2016-01-17T20:11:42 <Luke-Jr> zzif: there is no evidence of that
711 2016-01-17T20:11:48 <zzif> https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions
712 2016-01-17T20:11:53 <Luke-Jr> blockchain.info = misinformation
713 2016-01-17T20:12:00 <Luke-Jr> if they claim it, it's probably wrong
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716 2016-01-17T20:13:17 <MrHodl> Baffling how many people still use blockchain.info for info.
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718 2016-01-17T20:14:37 <Rebroad> Luke-Jr, "mob harassment" - what is that please?
719 2016-01-17T20:15:08 <Luke-Jr> Rebroad: /r/BTC basically
720 2016-01-17T20:15:13 <zzif> is there any other graph for transactions? it should not be difficult to parse that information from the blockchain
721 2016-01-17T20:15:26 <Guest73650> whenever i try to run/debug bitcoin from within netbeans, i am constantly thrown into the main function inside gen_context.c inside the secp2561k folder
722 2016-01-17T20:15:32 <maaku> Rebroad: the malleability fixes of segwit is really where the scaling happens -- it allows trustless off-chain solutions
723 2016-01-17T20:15:34 <Luke-Jr> zzif: what's hard is differentiating real transactions from spam
724 2016-01-17T20:15:40 <Lauda> Luke-Jr but why not prepare for that event right now?
725 2016-01-17T20:15:59 <Luke-Jr> Lauda: we are, see https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases
726 2016-01-17T20:16:07 <maaku> Lauda: we are.
727 2016-01-17T20:16:11 <zzif> Luke-Jr: spam transactions are real, not artificial
728 2016-01-17T20:16:15 <Guest73650> where should i actually be starting from?
729 2016-01-17T20:16:45 <Lauda> I've read that.
730 2016-01-17T20:16:49 <Lauda> I wish IBLTs and weak blocks would come sooner.
731 2016-01-17T20:16:50 <Luke-Jr> zzif: just like spam emails are real, sure
732 2016-01-17T20:17:21 <maaku> Lauda: procautionary principle: we should increase the on-chain capacity of bitcoin only as much as we can demonstrate the ability to do so safely
733 2016-01-17T20:17:29 <instagibbs> zzif, transactions arent geting stuck yet, we have time: http://rusty.ozlabs.org/?p=573
734 2016-01-17T20:17:36 <maaku> right now we have clear evidence that we can do an equivalent of about 2MB or so safely, and that is the plan
735 2016-01-17T20:17:38 <instagibbs> and forward motion IS being made
736 2016-01-17T20:17:45 <Luke-Jr> Lauda: I believe they're being worked on in parallel. It's just that segwit will be ready sooner.
737 2016-01-17T20:17:48 <maaku> but we also need to enable features that will let us get the NEXT increase in due time
738 2016-01-17T20:18:11 <zzif> instagibbs: thanks, will read that
739 2016-01-17T20:18:36 <Lauda> Luke-Jr & maaku Who's working on them?
740 2016-01-17T20:19:06 <Luke-Jr> Lauda: sipa, CodeShark, jl2012, and myself (and probably others!) are working on segwit
741 2016-01-17T20:19:13 <Luke-Jr> Lauda: I think Rusty is working on IBLT
742 2016-01-17T20:20:56 <Lauda> Thank you for the information.
743 2016-01-17T20:21:05 <Lauda> Some users seem to think that SegWit damages the security model
744 2016-01-17T20:21:14 <Luke-Jr> they're wrong
745 2016-01-17T20:21:28 <instagibbs> it's the same old thing like p2sh, people are being really deceitful :/
746 2016-01-17T20:22:00 <Lauda> Example.. http://prntscr.com/9rddlp
747 2016-01-17T20:22:38 <maaku> I'm working on segwit as well
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749 2016-01-17T20:22:46 <maaku> other people are reviewing
750 2016-01-17T20:23:03 <maaku> Lauda: absolutely wrong. it is exactly the same as P2SH
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753 2016-01-17T20:23:48 <Lauda> maaku I understand that. I think there's a lack of communication between developers and users though (nice new website).
754 2016-01-17T20:24:28 <maaku> Lauda: then please help us out and spread what you learn
755 2016-01-17T20:24:53 <Lauda> I am, whenever possible @BTCT.
756 2016-01-17T20:24:58 <Lauda> Bitcoin does not use Java right?
757 2016-01-17T20:24:58 <Rebroad> What I would like to understand is, why don't we work towards creating a hard-fork of bitcoin that only kicks in when the a significant majority of miners agree to it, and allows the miners themselves how to scale bitcoin (i.e. allow them to increase and decrease capacity - i.e. a vote in each block produced)?
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761 2016-01-17T20:25:26 <Rebroad> rather than a fixed prediction of how the network needs to scale
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763 2016-01-17T20:26:02 <maaku> i mean a certain part of me gets very frustrated by this situation. we organized a series of open-access workshops, with webcast archives, we did bitcoin meetup presentations, we got major news outlets to do fair reporting on the tech (thanks AaronvanW!)
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766 2016-01-17T20:26:44 <maaku> Type "segregated witness" in google and the very first result is an excellent explanation of the technology in layman terms
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768 2016-01-17T20:27:07 <maaku> Is the problem here really that -we- haven't been communicating?
769 2016-01-17T20:27:42 <maaku> Lauda: bitcoin is written entirely in C++ with some C
770 2016-01-17T20:27:51 <belcher> from some of my talking to people, its worrying how little the "hostile hard forks undermine digital scarcity" argument convinces people
771 2016-01-17T20:28:04 <belcher> if they just use bitcoin, rather than owning lots of it
772 2016-01-17T20:29:45 <Lauda> maaku apparently people need more, maybe a video like the one found on bitcoin.org on segwit
773 2016-01-17T20:29:51 <Lauda> to explain it for people without a IT background.
774 2016-01-17T20:29:55 <Lauda> Then I can't be of use ATM.
775 2016-01-17T20:29:56 <belcher> maaku could we try posting the explaination on reddit and upvoting to the top ?
776 2016-01-17T20:30:46 <Rebroad> what is a "hostile hard fork"?
777 2016-01-17T20:31:01 <maaku> belcher: it's been there (Aaron's bitcoin magazine article is what I was referring to)
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779 2016-01-17T20:31:04 <Rebroad> not all hard forks are hostile
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791 2016-01-17T20:49:58 <Lauda> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/41ehxy/can_a_core_dev_explain_again_whats_the_problem/
792 2016-01-17T20:53:49 <phantomcircuit> Lauda, it would take ~12 days to synchronize from the wifi here at 1MB
793 2016-01-17T20:54:24 <Rebroad> phantomcircuit, how relevant is that?
794 2016-01-17T20:55:03 <belcher> Rebroad very, being easy to set up a full node keeps the system decentralized
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796 2016-01-17T20:55:41 <belcher> many people running a full node and using it as their wallet is the only thing that stops miners inflating the currency or confiscating coins
797 2016-01-17T20:56:21 <Rebroad> 12 days seems like a very long time... to download how many GB?
798 2016-01-17T20:56:52 <belcher> like 45gb
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801 2016-01-17T20:58:24 <phantomcircuit> Rebroad, 12 days is easily long enough that the vast majority of people would just give up
802 2016-01-17T20:58:39 <phantomcircuit> we have people who show up and say they're giving up after as little as 4 hours
803 2016-01-17T20:58:57 <belcher> phantomcircuit can you even keep up with with the chain at that point? download and verify a block in 10 minutes
804 2016-01-17T20:58:58 <Rebroad> phantomcircuit, well, clearly they are not the people who will run a full node then
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806 2016-01-17T20:59:42 <Rebroad> phantomcircuit, clearly they are people who don't know what they are doing
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808 2016-01-17T20:59:52 <phantomcircuit> belcher, i believe so, but i dont have enough storage space so this machine runs in pruned mode
809 2016-01-17T21:00:00 <phantomcircuit> if anything goes wrong i'd have to wait another 12 days
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812 2016-01-17T21:00:15 <phantomcircuit> oops gtg!
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817 2016-01-17T21:04:15 <Chris_Stewart_5> Can anyone comment on validation times of txs when running monster scripts? I thought libsecpk2561 alleviated these issues?
818 2016-01-17T21:04:19 <Lauda> phantomcircuit 12 days..?
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825 2016-01-17T21:16:58 <Rebroad> Lauda, I think phantomcircuit has very slow WiFi.. it doesn't take me that long... but I might have to run some newer tests though...
826 2016-01-17T21:17:13 <Lauda> That seems like quite long.
827 2016-01-17T21:17:24 <Rebroad> Lauda, anyway, 12 days is not a long time for someone wanting to run a full-node... I mean, what's the rush?!
828 2016-01-17T21:17:41 <Lauda> That's almost half a month.. it is long to set up one.
829 2016-01-17T21:17:50 <Rebroad> Lauda, yes, but why the rush?
830 2016-01-17T21:18:02 <belcher> time is money
831 2016-01-17T21:18:06 <Lauda> Exactly.
832 2016-01-17T21:18:15 <Rebroad> belcher, running a full node doesn't make money
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834 2016-01-17T21:18:39 <belcher> Rebroad if you're using bitcoin instead of some other currency, presumably its valuable to you
835 2016-01-17T21:18:44 <Lauda> You lose money waiting.
836 2016-01-17T21:18:52 <Rebroad> Lauda, how would you lose money?
837 2016-01-17T21:18:53 <belcher> it doesnt make you "money" per se but theres still economic value in it
838 2016-01-17T21:18:59 <Lauda> If you're paying for a VPS
839 2016-01-17T21:19:04 <Lauda> 12 days of lost money.
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841 2016-01-17T21:19:21 <Rebroad> Lauda, if you're running a full node, it'll cost you the same to run it no matter how long it takes to download the blockchain
842 2016-01-17T21:19:24 <Lauda> Imagine compiling code that takes 12 days instead of 1?
843 2016-01-17T21:19:28 <Lauda> No time lost?
844 2016-01-17T21:20:06 <Rebroad> Lauda, belcher, I don't think you understand what motivates people to run full-nodes
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846 2016-01-17T21:20:23 <Lauda> ...
847 2016-01-17T21:20:25 <Lauda> you're weird.
848 2016-01-17T21:20:32 <Lauda> So let's not use SSDs because why the rush
849 2016-01-17T21:20:34 <Lauda> HDDs are fine
850 2016-01-17T21:20:51 <Rebroad> Lauda, you've still now answered my question. Rush to do what?
851 2016-01-17T21:20:53 <Lauda> Time is valuable, time should not be wasted unless necessary.
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853 2016-01-17T21:21:49 <Rebroad> Lauda, you could argue that running a full-node IS a waste of time... it's either a waste of time to run it, or it isn't... but running it involves downoading the blockchain.. it's part and parcel of running a full-node
854 2016-01-17T21:22:20 <Lauda> I wouldn't bother setting up a node that takes 12 days to set up.
855 2016-01-17T21:22:21 <Lauda> No way.
856 2016-01-17T21:22:32 <belcher> Rebroad running a full node is the most privacy way to use bitcoin, you only need to look at your hard drive instead of telling some random server all your addresses
857 2016-01-17T21:22:34 <Rebroad> anyway, this a a conversation for #bitcoin, not #bitcoin-dev
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859 2016-01-17T21:22:53 <belcher> for many use-cases, full node is the only way, and 12 days is costly in time
860 2016-01-17T21:23:15 <Lauda> Imagine a situation where user has no full node, they need it for reason X to use Y
861 2016-01-17T21:23:24 <Lauda> so wait 12 days before using it?
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864 2016-01-17T21:24:38 <roconnor> Chris_Stewart_5: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3yulwv/any_examples_of_the_10_minute_script_thats_a/cyhb33d
865 2016-01-17T21:24:47 <roconnor> but the reference link is broken :(
866 2016-01-17T21:25:14 <roconnor> ``The problem is that the algorithm used for SIGHASH_ALL is O( n2 ), and requires that you hash 1.2 GB of data for a 1 MB transaction.'' -- jtoomim
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1102 2016-01-17T23:03:46 <drnet> a question to address prefixes: is a hardfork needed to add another type of adress like 2/4?
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1107 2016-01-17T23:06:15 <maaku> Addresses are pure user interface
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1109 2016-01-17T23:07:04 <drnet> ah ok, so an old client would accept blocks/transactions if a newer client sent coins to "4blablabla"?
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1119 2016-01-17T23:19:34 <maaku> They wouldn't even be aware, yes.
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1121 2016-01-17T23:20:35 <drnet> ah great, that helped alot thanks!
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1132 2016-01-17T23:39:37 <AaronvanW> maaku: thanks (re: segwit articles)
1133 2016-01-17T23:39:44 <sinetek> hey has anyone tried to compile recently on FreeBSD? I get errors about pkg-config
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1135 2016-01-17T23:40:28 <AaronvanW> have you guys considered doing like a weekly AMA session or something like that? core devs could take turns, might help get rid of a lot of FUD
1136 2016-01-17T23:44:28 <roconnor> If a transaction is made up of SIGHASH_SINGLE is it considered mabliable (by rearranging the inputs)?
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1138 2016-01-17T23:47:01 <roconnor> oops
1139 2016-01-17T23:47:13 <roconnor> If a transaction is made up of SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY is it considered mabliable (by rearranging the inputs)?
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1145 2016-01-17T23:54:25 <AaronvanW> does 0.12.0 have blockchain pruning, by the way?
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1147 2016-01-17T23:55:18 <belcher> yep, even 0.11 did
1148 2016-01-17T23:55:43 <belcher> roconnor yes, or even adding new inputs
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