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34 2016-01-29T00:22:08 <moa> http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/01/high-severity-bug-in-openssl-allows-attackers-to-decrypt-https-traffic/
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97 2016-01-29T00:53:58 <priidu> sorry for asking this over and over :P
98 2016-01-29T00:54:08 <priidu> but any thoughts on this?
99 2016-01-29T00:54:10 <priidu> http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2016/01/28#l1453988677.0
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131 2016-01-29T01:12:29 <tobyirc> gijensen I updated my PR to support zero AND non-zero value OP_RETURNs https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7376
132 2016-01-29T01:12:32 <tobyirc> thanks again for the feedback
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142 2016-01-29T01:17:05 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: is there any possibility of you giving up this [stupid] idea, or should I just assign you a BIP number now and get it over with?
143 2016-01-29T01:17:51 <Luke-Jr> every new BIP that shouldn't be implemented, makes me want to write a BIP for some way people can publicly denounce them..
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146 2016-01-29T01:18:54 <tobyirc> Luke-Jr, I don't plan on giving up :)
147 2016-01-29T01:19:21 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: even if you have a BIP, it doesn't help your case to get Core (or anyone else) to implement it
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149 2016-01-29T01:19:26 <gijensen> tobyirc, I'll be sure to read and respond when I get a sec
150 2016-01-29T01:20:08 <tobyirc> Luke-Jr I know, I still have more advocating to do :)
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153 2016-01-29T01:20:25 <tobyirc> I do wish you didn't think it was "stupid", it really isn't even if you don't agree
154 2016-01-29T01:20:38 <tobyirc> gijensen, thanks!
155 2016-01-29T01:20:40 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: hopefully people will ignore such advocating and reject it.
156 2016-01-29T01:20:48 <Luke-Jr> anyhow, you can use BIP 74
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158 2016-01-29T01:21:23 <tobyirc> ok, do I do a PR on the BIP repo?
159 2016-01-29T01:21:28 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: yes
160 2016-01-29T01:21:33 <tobyirc> ok, thanks
161 2016-01-29T01:21:52 <tobyirc> and I don't mind if people reject it, but I want a reason other than "all use of OP_RETURN is evil" :P
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170 2016-01-29T01:27:54 <priidu> what about my question? :(
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172 2016-01-29T01:28:34 <Luke-Jr> priidu: JSON only has one Number type.
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174 2016-01-29T01:29:13 <priidu> Luke-Jr: true that, but isn't there some sort of internal representation for the value?
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179 2016-01-29T01:31:53 <phantomcircuit> tobyirc, can you explain what value you perceive from storing bittorrent infohashes in the bitcoin blockchain?
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183 2016-01-29T01:33:27 <tobyirc> well I happened to pick bittorrent hashes because they happen to be 40 bytes long and I wanted a rev 1 that did *something*
184 2016-01-29T01:33:53 <tobyirc> but the bigger idea is around using bitcoin to promote content
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186 2016-01-29T01:34:28 <tobyirc> so I create "channels" that are bitcoin addresses and the more bitcoin you send to that address with a particular hash in the OP_RETURN, the higher that hash will be rated on that "channel"
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188 2016-01-29T01:34:54 <tobyirc> the idea is to create something that allows you to vote with money but is fully decentralized and uncensorable
189 2016-01-29T01:35:35 <tobyirc> as far as the bittorrent side goes, I was planning on integrating a bittorrent server so you could say write a markdown post, it would get hosted on bittorrent (via the key.run server) then you could promote it on one of these namespace channels by spending bitcoin
190 2016-01-29T01:35:43 <tobyirc> as could others that found it interesting
191 2016-01-29T01:35:55 <tobyirc> that's really a pretty specific use case, that I'm not sure anyone wants :)
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193 2016-01-29T01:36:16 <Luke-Jr> priidu: sure, why not just read the code?
194 2016-01-29T01:36:17 <tobyirc> but the idea is that you can, with my proposed BIP, make sophisticated transactions like that without sitting on bitcoin
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197 2016-01-29T01:36:38 <tobyirc> since the users wallet will actually submit the transaction, you just serialize it and send it over https
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200 2016-01-29T01:38:10 <priidu> Luke-Jr: yes, you're absolutely correct, I checked for a sec before but couldn't find the right place right off the bat
201 2016-01-29T01:38:16 <priidu> so just posted here
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203 2016-01-29T01:38:21 <Luke-Jr> priidu: it is currently calculated as floats, but cast to int64 before returning for some reason
204 2016-01-29T01:38:30 <priidu> either way, it was more of a passing thought
205 2016-01-29T01:38:42 <priidu> and something I thought I'd bring light to just in case
206 2016-01-29T01:38:45 <priidu> in this chat
207 2016-01-29T01:38:52 <Luke-Jr> priidu: simple to fix, in rpcmining.cpp at the top
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209 2016-01-29T01:38:57 <Luke-Jr> just remove the cast should work
210 2016-01-29T01:39:07 <Luke-Jr> priidu: your first PR? :P
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212 2016-01-29T01:40:40 <priidu> yes, I don't consider myself proficient in C++ so I tend to stay away from submitting PRs to core :P
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214 2016-01-29T01:41:09 <priidu> obviously I can read the code but never programmed C++ professionally so I don't know the specific and caveats
215 2016-01-29T01:42:07 <priidu> specifics*
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217 2016-01-29T01:42:34 <Luke-Jr> priidu: just remove the cast and test it, in this case
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219 2016-01-29T01:42:56 <Luke-Jr> it's hard to go wrong, but feel free to PM me if you have trouble
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225 2016-01-29T01:45:06 <tobyirc> Luke-Jr done with PR let me know if you need anything else, I think I did it right
226 2016-01-29T01:45:25 <tobyirc> I didn't give it a status or date since I think you do that
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230 2016-01-29T01:46:48 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: you need a Copyright section (see BIP 1) and update the index (README)
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232 2016-01-29T01:47:00 <tobyirc> ah, ok@
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235 2016-01-29T01:49:28 <phantomcircuit> tobyirc, nothing that you just described requires the data be in the blockchain
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238 2016-01-29T01:50:40 <tobyirc> phantomcircuit where would you put it?
239 2016-01-29T01:51:02 <phantomcircuit> tobyirc, any peer-to-peer network would work
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241 2016-01-29T01:51:21 <tobyirc> no, you still need a centralized repo of torrents to discover
242 2016-01-29T01:51:25 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: I already told him this fwiw
243 2016-01-29T01:51:27 <tobyirc> ala piratebay/kat.ph
244 2016-01-29T01:52:10 <tobyirc> then I'd still have to generate bitcoin addresses for each piece of content, store that info on a db somewhere then watch for those addresses to receive coin
245 2016-01-29T01:52:15 <tobyirc> very centralized sounding
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248 2016-01-29T01:53:26 <phantomcircuit> tobyirc, no...
249 2016-01-29T01:54:00 <phantomcircuit> tobyirc, before building a tool to fill the blockchain with garabge
250 2016-01-29T01:54:09 <phantomcircuit> please take another month to think of better solutions
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252 2016-01-29T01:54:23 <tobyirc> it won't fill the blockchain with garbage
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254 2016-01-29T01:54:55 <tobyirc> the thing with payment requests is they only go through if people submit them
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256 2016-01-29T01:55:13 <tobyirc> so this is only a "problem" if it gets popular
257 2016-01-29T01:55:19 <tobyirc> which is a nice problem to have, bitcoin could use some popular consumer apps
258 2016-01-29T01:55:25 <tobyirc> beside, this is a very narrow use case
259 2016-01-29T01:55:31 <tobyirc> I need this mechanism for other things I want to do
260 2016-01-29T01:55:42 <tobyirc> I have a user account system like one name in mind that could use this
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266 2016-01-29T01:58:20 <tobyirc> luke-jr added copywrite and updated index, rebased and squashed
267 2016-01-29T01:58:33 * Luke-Jr hopes you spelled it right >_<
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269 2016-01-29T01:58:47 <tobyirc> lol, yeah I only slack off in irc :P
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272 2016-01-29T01:59:08 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: k, merged
273 2016-01-29T01:59:10 <tobyirc> thank you!
274 2016-01-29T01:59:49 <tobyirc> phantomcircuit and Luke-Jr was there ever an incident where OP_RETURN got abused? It seems like everyone is super jumpy about it but I have to admit to not having been around long enough to see it used nefariously
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276 2016-01-29T02:00:03 <tobyirc> I would like to learn more about why it's so hated though
277 2016-01-29T02:00:05 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: lots
278 2016-01-29T02:00:14 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: your plan will be one such example soon
279 2016-01-29T02:00:18 <tobyirc> LOL
280 2016-01-29T02:00:30 <tobyirc> by "abuse" I mean substantial growth of the blockchain
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284 2016-01-29T02:01:17 <belcher> the only reason OP_RETURN exists is to stop abusers polluting the UTXO set, the blockchain cannot be a cheap data storage server
285 2016-01-29T02:01:33 <phantomcircuit> tobyirc, literally the only thing i've ever heard of that was a reasonable use for OP_RETURN was stealth addresses
286 2016-01-29T02:01:50 <phantomcircuit> it's pretty clear to me that you want to store data that is unrelated to executing the payment
287 2016-01-29T02:01:52 <tobyirc> correct, I don't believe in serializing data to the blockchain, but attaching 40 bytes of metadata to a transaction seems infinitely useful
288 2016-01-29T02:01:55 <phantomcircuit> so it's be definition garabge
289 2016-01-29T02:02:18 <tobyirc> no, in my plan the payment and data are intimately tied
290 2016-01-29T02:02:26 <tobyirc> I wouldn't use bitcoin otherwise :)
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312 2016-01-29T02:15:22 <jimtendo_> OP_RETURN exists, in large part, to accomodate Lightning Network, no?
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315 2016-01-29T02:16:09 <phantomcircuit> jimtendo_, ??? no it exists to stop people from using bare multisig
316 2016-01-29T02:16:11 <maaku> jimtendo_: no
317 2016-01-29T02:16:26 <maaku> RETURN has no applicaiton to lightning whatsoever
318 2016-01-29T02:16:28 <phantomcircuit> afaik no lighting implementation even uses op_return
319 2016-01-29T02:16:51 <jimtendo_> Hhhmmm... I'll have to go do some more reading.
320 2016-01-29T02:17:01 <maaku> in fact, it has no applications at all ... it is supported as standard only because people insist on doing stupid things and would do something more harmful otherwise
321 2016-01-29T02:17:23 <phantomcircuit> jimtendo_, i'd suggest https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/raw/master/doc/deployable-lightning.pdf
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323 2016-01-29T02:17:45 <phantomcircuit> rusty did a good job of writing up the basic structure
324 2016-01-29T02:17:48 <jimtendo_> phantomcircuit: Thanks, giving it a read now.
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338 2016-01-29T02:27:35 <Luke-Jr> jimtendo_: the only pseudo-legitimate use is Counterparty
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340 2016-01-29T02:27:57 <Luke-Jr> which I think tobyirc's proposal breaks as well
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344 2016-01-29T02:29:12 <tobyirc> luke-jr it should still work with my bip
345 2016-01-29T02:29:35 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: nah, someone will just write a payment request that quietly sends your assets to them :P
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347 2016-01-29T02:30:17 <tobyirc> luke-jr what do you think of proof of existence?
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349 2016-01-29T02:30:33 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: I plan to add it to Core in 0.13 or 0.14
350 2016-01-29T02:30:39 <Luke-Jr> 100% spam-free
351 2016-01-29T02:30:51 <tobyirc> ah, via the mechanism you alluded to earlier
352 2016-01-29T02:30:56 <tobyirc> yes it should work for that
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361 2016-01-29T02:36:40 <tobyirc> luke-jr do you have a good starting point for me to look at where I can learn more about your vision for bitcoin? I'm curious how you plan to keep the blockchain small but keep bitcoin growing since those two things seem incompatible in my mind.
362 2016-01-29T02:38:28 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: it happens to be the same as Satoshi's vision, if that helps.
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364 2016-01-29T02:40:58 <tobyirc> a bit, but I still don't understand why a large blockchain is a bad thing since things like OP_RETURN don't make it orders of magnitude larger, just slightly
365 2016-01-29T02:41:13 <tobyirc> like it seems if there was scaling problems, it won't be from OP_RETURN it will be from the number of transactions
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367 2016-01-29T02:41:23 <tobyirc> worrying about OP_RETURN strikes me as a premature optimization
368 2016-01-29T02:42:16 <tobyirc> and I supposed I'd be in the camp of addressing those scaling issues at the cost of a small block chain, super low end hardware compatibility
369 2016-01-29T02:42:18 <Luke-Jr> that's like saying "my botnet is okay because I only use idle CPU time!"
370 2016-01-29T02:42:45 <tobyirc> if there were no transaction fees I'd totally agree with you, but miners get paid to mine op_return
371 2016-01-29T02:42:53 <Luke-Jr> miners don't bear the cost
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373 2016-01-29T02:43:08 <Luke-Jr> the fees are there to discourage the spam, not to justify it
374 2016-01-29T02:43:10 <tobyirc> the cost for OP_RETURN data seems insignificant
375 2016-01-29T02:43:32 <Luke-Jr> [02:42:17] <Luke-Jr> that's like saying "my botnet is okay because I only use idle CPU time!"
376 2016-01-29T02:45:09 <tobyirc> so you see people running full nodes as having an agreement as to the usage of bitcoin, and OP_RETURN is not part of that agreement, therefore people using OP_RETURNs are taking advantage of their system?
377 2016-01-29T02:45:22 <Luke-Jr> precisely.
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379 2016-01-29T02:45:33 <tobyirc> at least I'm honing in on what you think! :P
380 2016-01-29T02:46:21 <tobyirc> not that you care, but my philosophy is if it's available in the API, it's free to use without judgement
381 2016-01-29T02:46:29 <tobyirc> it's not good to shame people against using technology
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383 2016-01-29T02:46:35 <tobyirc> better to change the technology so they can't do what they want
384 2016-01-29T02:46:49 <Luke-Jr> tobyirc: well, sounds like Bitcoin (and probably most of the real world) is incompatible with your philosophy
385 2016-01-29T02:46:55 <Luke-Jr> after all, there is an API for murder IRL
386 2016-01-29T02:47:12 <Luke-Jr> unfortunately, there is no way to change Bitcoin to be impossible to spam
387 2016-01-29T02:47:19 <tobyirc> there's an API for the prison too :)
388 2016-01-29T02:47:34 <tobyirc> it sounds like a good time to embrace it then :)
389 2016-01-29T02:47:39 <Luke-Jr> not to mention I am resisting you adding an API to spam
390 2016-01-29T02:47:46 <tobyirc> indeed
391 2016-01-29T02:48:12 <Luke-Jr> you can't say "APIs justify abuse!" and at the same time "I'm going to add an API for abuse!"
392 2016-01-29T02:48:35 <tobyirc> I can say, APIs let me do this thing, I want to do more things, let's make more APIs
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394 2016-01-29T02:49:10 <Luke-Jr> how about you make those APIs in your *own* system, rather than pissing all over one we've been working on for years?
395 2016-01-29T02:49:24 <tobyirc> you'll have to embrace newcomers eventually
396 2016-01-29T02:49:29 <tobyirc> I'm seriously not the enemy of bitcoin
397 2016-01-29T02:49:48 <Luke-Jr> newcomers who don't attack the system, sure
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399 2016-01-29T02:50:02 <tobyirc> newcomers will assume the APIs that exist are ok to use
400 2016-01-29T02:50:11 <tobyirc> there are countless blog posts extolling the virtues of OP_RETURN
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402 2016-01-29T02:50:18 <tobyirc> that's how I found out about it :)
403 2016-01-29T02:50:25 <Luke-Jr> written by people who don't know what they're talking about
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405 2016-01-29T02:50:58 <tobyirc> I still contend it's a premature optimization to worry about this since it's never caused any problems (aside from the moral issue you see)
406 2016-01-29T02:51:08 <Luke-Jr> it has
407 2016-01-29T02:51:15 <Luke-Jr> about half of the blockchain (so 30 GB) is spam
408 2016-01-29T02:51:31 <tobyirc> see that doesn't sound bad at all
409 2016-01-29T02:51:35 <tobyirc> 30 GB is not a lot of data
410 2016-01-29T02:51:35 <Luke-Jr> …
411 2016-01-29T02:51:53 <Luke-Jr> 30 GB is 6 months of typical cellular service
412 2016-01-29T02:52:38 <tobyirc> so all of bitcoin's transactions should be able to go down a edge connection?
413 2016-01-29T02:52:43 <tobyirc> that doesn't sound sustainable
414 2016-01-29T02:52:48 <Luke-Jr> yes, that is how Bitcoin works
415 2016-01-29T02:52:59 <Luke-Jr> it's not sustainable with spam
416 2016-01-29T02:53:08 <tobyirc> it's not sustainable without spam!
417 2016-01-29T02:53:27 <Luke-Jr> we'll see
418 2016-01-29T02:54:11 *** bit2017 has joined #bitcoin-dev
419 2016-01-29T02:54:20 <tobyirc> I'll be watching for sure, but now I have to run. Thank you for taking the time to give some background.
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423 2016-01-29T03:02:06 <moa> BIP 70 for magnet links, why bother?
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456 2016-01-29T04:19:32 <cluelessperson> hi
457 2016-01-29T04:19:34 <cluelessperson> :))
458 2016-01-29T04:19:40 <cluelessperson> wrong channel, sorry
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550 2016-01-29T07:59:46 <cluelessperson> Question, I'm attempting to help someone recover his bitcoin from a corrupted wallet. I How can I generate a key to decrypt his wallet from his passphrase?
551 2016-01-29T08:00:03 <cluelessperson> According to this.
552 2016-01-29T08:00:04 <cluelessperson> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/6b8a5ab622e5c9386c872036646bf94da983b190/doc/README
553 2016-01-29T08:01:21 <cluelessperson> the key is dynamically generated. I'm wondering, are there existing tools to do this?
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719 2016-01-29T13:34:11 <wumpus> there's a master key in the wallet database, which is randomly generated. This key is encrypted using the passphrase. The master key is used to encrypt the private keys.
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722 2016-01-29T13:35:54 <wumpus> the code that handles wallet encryption and passphrases is here https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/wallet/crypter.cpp
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787 2016-01-29T15:44:16 <jtimon> maaku btcdrak morcos, to me it was useful to review 7184 on top of 6312 (which I had reviewed already, although that review of 7184 wasn't deep and is probably obsolete), but I tend to agree with morcos that is more a matter of review preferences. btdrak I really don't understand your point about a version on top of 6312 slowing things down...
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790 2016-01-29T15:49:07 <jtimon> btcdrak: re "what concerns me more for delay is if consensus refactoring requires more rebasing" that woulnd't be a concern if we merge bip68 once and for all as policy rule (something that I regret so much didn't happen for 0.12, more than 6 months after its initial development...)
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922 2016-01-29T19:12:07 <raad_> hi
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924 2016-01-29T19:13:13 <raad_> anyone can help me?
925 2016-01-29T19:16:03 <raad_> no one?
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928 2016-01-29T19:20:18 <instagibbs> raad_, just ask the q
929 2016-01-29T19:21:12 <raad_> Is it possible that my public key of ECDSA will be reveal on signature transaction? (scripsig) if yes how?
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934 2016-01-29T19:30:01 <chjj> raad_: public keys can be recovered from signatures. it's just the way signatures are.
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937 2016-01-29T19:34:43 <raad_> how it can be ?
938 2016-01-29T19:35:30 <maaku> raad_: math
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942 2016-01-29T19:38:06 <raad_> yes but i heard that signature was encode DEr
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949 2016-01-29T19:44:39 <maaku> so?
950 2016-01-29T19:46:17 <Eliel_> raad_: DER is encoding, not encryption. Encoding is made to be decodable by anyone. Encryption is meant to keep information hidden.
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1019 2016-01-29T21:51:16 <Luke-Jr> blah! that marker+flag happens to match what Eloipool is doing internally :<
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1085 2016-01-29T23:42:04 <xabbix> If orphan transactions are not relayed to other nodes, is it safe to assume that when my node sees an orphan transaction, it is more than likely that the relaying node is the actual owner of the transaction? (Let's ignore for a second the existence of web wallets and similar services).
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