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5 2016-03-15T00:22:42 <belcher> is there an accepted method for SPV/thin-wallets to have access to the estimatefee method from core? im thinking about writing a wallet that sync's with bip37 bloom filters only to your own node running on your own hardware, but im not sure how such a wallet would estimatefee
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16 2016-03-15T00:45:05 <belcher> i wonder if in the long term, a new method can be added to the p2p protocol that exposed estimatefee
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20 2016-03-15T00:50:24 <wallet42> belcher: the problem here really is how to trust other nodes.
21 2016-03-15T00:50:42 <belcher> of course, miners especially have an incentive to lie
22 2016-03-15T00:50:54 <belcher> but my specific situation, ill only connect to my own node on my own hardware
23 2016-03-15T00:51:01 <belcher> for full privacy, security, trustlessness and so on
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46 2016-03-15T02:16:13 <Luke-Jr> belcher: some authenticated protocol would be desirable for that kind of use case. right now, it basically requires Tor :/
47 2016-03-15T02:16:36 <belcher> Luke-Jr or ssh tunnel or simply routing in your own home network
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49 2016-03-15T02:17:12 <belcher> bitcoin 0.12 automatically creates a .onion so its even more convenient
50 2016-03-15T02:17:18 <Luke-Jr> I assume my home network is insecure. :p
51 2016-03-15T02:17:33 <Luke-Jr> only if Tor is running ;)
52 2016-03-15T02:17:35 <belcher> really? ok i guess so
53 2016-03-15T02:17:43 <belcher> well even so, theres no estimatefee
54 2016-03-15T02:17:55 <belcher> you have to query a web api i think
55 2016-03-15T02:18:30 <Luke-Jr> you could tunnel the REST or JSON-RPC API
56 2016-03-15T02:18:58 <belcher> yes
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58 2016-03-15T02:19:11 <belcher> someone said so on #bitcoin, i suppose thats what ill do
59 2016-03-15T02:19:27 <belcher> its slightly less convieniant setting it all up, but not much can be done about that :)
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234 2016-03-15T13:39:47 <dgenr8> tor is anonymous, not authenticated
235 2016-03-15T13:43:03 <dgenr8> a rough but trustable measure of fees/kb would be (coinbase amount - block reward) / blocksize in KB. 1000 KB is not a bad estimate for blocksize nowadays.
236 2016-03-15T13:44:49 <instagibbs> miners may stuff the ballot, so to speak, and would be undetectable
237 2016-03-15T13:44:50 <helo> can't miners artificially boost coinbase amount by creating (but not broadcasting) transactions that pay large fees?
238 2016-03-15T13:47:20 <dgenr8> that's too risky for a miner unless they have a really big %
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240 2016-03-15T14:07:01 <instagibbs> dgenr8, you mean for reorgs?
241 2016-03-15T14:07:14 <instagibbs> s/reorgs/stales ?
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243 2016-03-15T14:11:35 <Chris_Stewart_5> What are the r,s values of an empty ECDSA signature? 0,0?
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245 2016-03-15T14:13:14 <dgenr8> instagibbs: i just mean miners can only pay themselves in their own blocks, much more difficult than a node just spitting out false fee estimates.
246 2016-03-15T14:13:51 <instagibbs> dgenr8, no argument it's a "better" estimate than randomly querying what appear to be nodes
247 2016-03-15T14:14:39 <dgenr8> it does appear that today, either method seems pretty good
248 2016-03-15T14:14:51 <instagibbs> might change if we encourage such behavior
249 2016-03-15T14:17:30 <dgenr8> and there's always the threat of miners moving fees OOB
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329 2016-03-15T19:32:13 <Chris_Stewart_5> This test case includes a empty pubkey checking this very long signature, correct?
330 2016-03-15T19:32:15 <Chris_Stewart_5> ["0x4a 0x0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000", "0 CHECKSIG NOT", "", "Overly long signature is correctly encoded"]
331 2016-03-15T19:32:23 <Chris_Stewart_5> it's from script_valid.json
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342 2016-03-15T19:57:53 <waxwing> Chris_Stewart_5: 0,0 is not a valid signature fwiw
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344 2016-03-15T20:02:32 <Chris_Stewart_5> waxwing: Yeah I figured that out, with the next problem a Bitcoinj ECKey cannot be created from an empty byte array (from OP_0)
345 2016-03-15T20:03:49 <Chris_Stewart_5> actually bouncy castle cannot decode the EC Point which makes sense if they are just trying to decode an empty byte array... not sure how Bitcoin core handles elliptic curve keys that are created from empty byte arrays
346 2016-03-15T20:06:45 <waxwing> i know nothing about Core, but i guess that line in script_valid.json is just testing the first part of the encoding, i.e. the length byte at the start
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348 2016-03-15T20:12:52 <Chris_Stewart_5> Thanks for the help waxwing
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351 2016-03-15T20:21:15 <Chris_Stewart_5> waxwing: That 0x000.....0000 is equivalent to 0x00 right?
352 2016-03-15T20:21:37 <kadoban> No, it's a stack item with however many zero bytes in it
353 2016-03-15T20:22:43 <Chris_Stewart_5> kadoban: I'm referring to when it is evaluated from the OP_CHECKSIG
354 2016-03-15T20:23:32 <Chris_Stewart_5> at that point, it is a digital signature isn't it?
355 2016-03-15T20:23:35 <waxwing> i guess OP_CHECKSIG reads it expecting a DER encoded signature. which of course that one isn't :)
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357 2016-03-15T20:24:28 <kadoban> Chris_Stewart_5: Yeah I'm not really sure what OP_CHECKSIG is actually expecting or ⦠what it's supposed to do on nonsense.
358 2016-03-15T20:25:15 <Chris_Stewart_5> waxwing: Ok thats what I thought but i'm not super familiar with DER encoding but from what i read I didn't think that was valid. I'm wondering if Bitcoin Core just automatically marks the tx as invalid as soon as it sees that the signature isn't a DER encoded
359 2016-03-15T20:25:18 <waxwing> all the others are (30) (signature?) , (length),(02) <- means integer iirc etc.
360 2016-03-15T20:25:51 <Chris_Stewart_5> instead of failing at runtime, which bitcoinj does
361 2016-03-15T20:26:43 <waxwing> failing at runtime? oh. sounds exciting :)
362 2016-03-15T20:27:11 <Chris_Stewart_5> specifially at org.bitcoinj.core.ECKey$ECDSASignature.decodeFromDER(ECKey.java:593)
363 2016-03-15T20:27:18 <Chris_Stewart_5> which make sense now i guess
364 2016-03-15T20:27:47 <kadoban> Chris_Stewart_5: Well you said this was from the valid test-cases right? So this script is supposed to succeed (get marked as valid)
365 2016-03-15T20:28:01 <Chris_Stewart_5> kadoban: the script has a OP_NOT at the end
366 2016-03-15T20:28:27 <Chris_Stewart_5> So I think i'm conflating failing at runtime and the script failing (which is expected)
367 2016-03-15T20:28:44 <kadoban> Chris_Stewart_5: Yes, but that means the script is continuing to that point, which is different from "automatically marks the tx as invalid", which is more like what OP_RETURN does (nothing after that can make it succeed)
368 2016-03-15T20:30:05 <arubi> I think the purpose of this being in -valid is deprecated? it's also in "script_invalid.json"
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370 2016-03-15T20:30:18 <arubi> '"DERSIG", "Overly long signature is incorrectly encoded for DERSIG"'
371 2016-03-15T20:30:32 <arubi> I mean, I guess it was valid until some point..
372 2016-03-15T20:30:44 <kadoban> Err, it's in both? That doesn't seem to make much sense. There must be context of some kind?
373 2016-03-15T20:30:57 <arubi> pre strict-der?
374 2016-03-15T20:30:59 <Chris_Stewart_5> arubi: Can you link the line on github?
375 2016-03-15T20:31:08 <arubi> I mean, it should verify until some point, right?
376 2016-03-15T20:31:25 <arubi> Chris_Stewart_5, src/test/data/script_invalid.json:526
377 2016-03-15T20:31:27 <waxwing> my guess is that Core doesn't want that kind of thing to be valid since it's a vector for stuffing up the blockchain? *warning no idea..." :)
378 2016-03-15T20:31:50 <arubi> Chris_Stewart_5, well, at least on my pull it is. it's pretty new, should still be there
379 2016-03-15T20:33:52 <Chris_Stewart_5> online for anyone that wants to see
380 2016-03-15T20:33:54 <Chris_Stewart_5> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/test/data/script_invalid.json#L550
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382 2016-03-15T20:35:01 <Chris_Stewart_5> arubi: What do you mean by 'being -valid is deprecated'?
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384 2016-03-15T20:35:46 <Chris_Stewart_5> and was there a recent BIP that enforces strict der encoding?
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386 2016-03-15T20:36:04 <waxwing> Chris_Stewart_5: yeah but that was about enforcing low-S values
387 2016-03-15T20:36:15 <waxwing> because r,-s works as well as r, s
388 2016-03-15T20:36:23 <arubi> Chris_Stewart_5, I'm mostly guessing here, I think these type of signatures (garbage) used to be valid until bip 66 was enforced
389 2016-03-15T20:36:48 <waxwing> hmm maybe yeah .. i think low S was bip62 and 66 covered some more things
390 2016-03-15T20:36:55 <arubi> right
391 2016-03-15T20:37:13 <Chris_Stewart_5> i thought BIP 66 was sipa's attempt to remove tx malleability that failed.. am i thinking of another bip?
392 2016-03-15T20:37:24 <waxwing> Chris_Stewart_5: yes that's right. same issue.
393 2016-03-15T20:38:13 <arubi> there's only one (replay-able) form to a signature now, that /is/ helping with malleability somewhat
394 2016-03-15T20:38:14 <waxwing> i think arubi's right in as much as a total length of 73 is enforced. but wasn't bip66 dropped or something?
395 2016-03-15T20:38:33 <Chris_Stewart_5> i think bip66 was dropped
396 2016-03-15T20:38:41 <arubi> ..? really? that's news to me
397 2016-03-15T20:38:45 <Chris_Stewart_5> I think most of the work was surpassed by segwit
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399 2016-03-15T20:38:54 <Chris_Stewart_5> or fixed by segwit
400 2016-03-15T20:38:59 <waxwing> basically the encoding is 30 (length of the rest) 02 (length of r) [00] r 02 (length of s) s
401 2016-03-15T20:39:13 <waxwing> the [00] is if the value is > 80 hex
402 2016-03-15T20:39:19 <waxwing> oh i forgot the [00] for the s
403 2016-03-15T20:39:28 <Chris_Stewart_5> basically this right? https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/1795/how-can-i-convert-a-der-ecdsa-signature-to-asn-1
404 2016-03-15T20:39:34 <waxwing> basically the encoding is 30 (length of the rest) 02 (length of r) [00] r 02 (length of s)[00] s
405 2016-03-15T20:40:13 <waxwing> Chris_Stewart_5: yes except for the extra 00 if the first byte of r/s is > 80 hex
406 2016-03-15T20:41:32 <waxwing> meh it's here anyway: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0062.mediawiki#der-encoding
407 2016-03-15T20:41:42 <waxwing> forgot sighash type at end :)
408 2016-03-15T20:42:03 <arubi> oh, so bip 62 is withdrawn, not 66, right?
409 2016-03-15T20:42:29 <arubi> yea, pull request is merged and everything
410 2016-03-15T20:43:23 <Chris_Stewart_5> had them backwards I guess :-)
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412 2016-03-15T20:44:42 <waxwing> oh i see. yeah same rules are in 66.
413 2016-03-15T20:45:15 <Chris_Stewart_5> so basically the script_valid.json file is out of date? Is that what I can conclude?
414 2016-03-15T20:46:43 <arubi> Chris_Stewart_5, I'll rephrase. I think it still should be there, as the chains must have transactions pre bip66 that act like this "checksig not" script
415 2016-03-15T20:47:30 <arubi> so, it should be there "but warn" pre bip66 block validation, and both be in _invalid.json for post bip66 block validation, but this time error, and not warn
416 2016-03-15T20:47:52 <arubi> note, I'm still mostly guessing
417 2016-03-15T20:48:11 <arubi> s/chains/chain
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419 2016-03-15T20:50:24 <Chris_Stewart_5> arubi: I think I understand what you are saying, how is this signature encoded then? Is this called like an non-strict DER encoded signature? Or just a generic ECDSA signature?
420 2016-03-15T20:50:43 <Chris_Stewart_5> because what you said about validation pre and post BIP66 makes sense
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422 2016-03-15T20:51:20 <arubi> Chris_Stewart_5, I'd try looking at how an older version of openssl would parse it
423 2016-03-15T20:52:07 <Chris_Stewart_5> arubi: Ok, thanks so much for the help! I appreciate it
424 2016-03-15T20:52:42 <arubi> I think that's what was used in core back then? I'm not too sure.. I don't know how this would be sanely parsed :( welcome Chris_Stewart_5, maybe someone more knowledgeable will see your question and correct some stuff I said
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434 2016-03-15T21:36:24 <cnnx> Luke-Jr: i guess you would be here too then :)
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