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26 2016-05-28T01:47:13 <random-man> hello
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60 2016-05-28T05:08:03 <Guest45280> Which release of openssl works with bitcoin .12?
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188 2016-05-28T18:25:45 <bedeho> is there a minimum length to DER encoded signature ?
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191 2016-05-28T18:33:45 <waxwing> it might not be feasible to work out the minimum length of a valid signature; but i think something like 3006020101020101 would be a valid *encoding*. Not at all sure though.
192 2016-05-28T18:40:30 <bedeho> waxwing, so is 0 length potentially a valid signature then?
193 2016-05-28T18:40:43 <waxwing> bedeho: neither r nor s can be valid for ECDSA
194 2016-05-28T18:40:50 <waxwing> sorry can be *zero* for valid ECDSA
195 2016-05-28T18:41:34 <waxwing> i can't remember offhand if r= 1 (ie K.x = 1) is a valid point on the curve.
196 2016-05-28T18:41:49 <bedeho> I see, weird that upper bound is known to be 73 bytes, yet lower bound is unknown, yet 0 not possible
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198 2016-05-28T18:42:27 <waxwing> well it's just that s is a solution to an equation for a valid k (nonce) -> r.
199 2016-05-28T18:43:19 <waxwing> For example there was some discussion about the weird properties of the point G (G /2 is remarkably short). to do with how the generator was set up. quite fascinating stuff actually. seems to lead to the possibility of a very unusually short sig.
200 2016-05-28T18:44:49 <waxwing> of course usually having r or s much less than 32 bytes is going to be extremely rare.
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202 2016-05-28T18:46:29 <bedeho> I see, thanks, really appreciate it
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204 2016-05-28T18:51:47 <luke-jr> waxwing: at least 8 bytes, though, right?
205 2016-05-28T18:52:18 <waxwing> luke-jr: the toy example above ^ is 8. kinda stupid though :)
206 2016-05-28T18:52:27 <waxwing> if you meant the DER encoding
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208 2016-05-28T18:52:53 <luke-jr> right
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211 2016-05-28T18:57:11 <waxwing> i guess the right way to look at it is, you can easily find a one-byte r, but since no one has the corresponding k (ECDLP hardness), you cannot find a corresponding s, even though the private key and the sighash are free variables. i think. a bit confusing.
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213 2016-05-28T19:01:50 <luke-jr> waxwing: so we can't know the length of the minimum *valid* signature, but presumably we can at least know some minimum length that could be an *encoded* (valid or not) signature..
214 2016-05-28T19:03:17 <waxwing> luke-jr: yeah i agree, like i said above something like that 8 byte string should be valid.
215 2016-05-28T19:03:41 <waxwing> plus i've looked again and now i think it is valid, in the sense that you can recover a pubkey from it for some arbitrary z(sighash). I think.
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217 2016-05-28T19:04:34 <waxwing> like if notation is s=k^-1(z+rd), then you can recover with r^-1(sk-z)G = dG = pubkey (ignoring the fiddling around with two possibilities)
218 2016-05-28T19:05:14 <waxwing> which is weird because if r=1 and s=1 then r^-1 = 1 so you get something like K -zG = pubkey.
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223 2016-05-28T19:25:21 <Lauda> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1605.07524v1.pdf
224 2016-05-28T19:25:24 <Lauda> Any thoughts on this?
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242 2016-05-28T20:24:14 <luke-jr> Lauda: thought -> PDF -> potential malware -> not wise to open
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244 2016-05-28T20:24:41 <Lauda> luke-jr it is on Cornell Uni library
245 2016-05-28T20:24:47 <Lauda> Hopefully not malware
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247 2016-05-28T20:28:25 <Lauda> Non-pdf link: https://arxiv.org/abs/1605.07524
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273 2016-05-28T21:29:28 <arubi> waxwing, very interesting. http://paste.debian.net/plainh/dbe8492b
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275 2016-05-28T21:31:14 <waxwing> arubi: right, so i guess you went message -> z and K - zG -> pubkey -> address right
276 2016-05-28T21:31:31 <waxwing> where K is the point with K.x = 1 or 2 or whatever
277 2016-05-28T21:31:36 <waxwing> i forget which one is on the curve
278 2016-05-28T21:31:44 <arubi> yep. never tried to match a very short sig. k_x = 1 right
279 2016-05-28T21:31:45 <waxwing> oh, must be 1, it's there
280 2016-05-28T21:32:18 <waxwing> i remember i spent hours trying to figure out why i was wrong that a point with x=1 exists, because sipa said somewhere on the internet that it didn't exist. but he made a mistake :)
281 2016-05-28T21:32:40 <waxwing> so anyhoo, yeah that will have length 8 bytes in DER, but no one would have the private key
282 2016-05-28T21:33:52 <arubi> hehe :), right, you'd have to actually verify against a pubkey of (1,...) to prove that you know the DL for (1,..)
283 2016-05-28T21:34:53 <arubi> also do you have a source for the discussion about the generator? I'm very interested in reading it
284 2016-05-28T21:37:48 <waxwing> arubi: gmaxwell talked about it in -wizards.
285 2016-05-28T21:37:59 <waxwing> look at 2^-1 *G
286 2016-05-28T21:38:11 <arubi> ah thanks. I'll search.
287 2016-05-28T21:38:12 <waxwing> 00000000000000000000003b78ce563f89a0ed9414f5aa28ad0d96d6795f9c63
288 2016-05-28T21:38:52 <arubi> got it. cool
289 2016-05-28T21:39:05 <waxwing> 21 bytes, it's the hash of something. that's how they made the generator.
290 2016-05-28T21:39:13 <waxwing> iirc nobody actually knows what they hashed :)
291 2016-05-28T21:39:23 <waxwing> well, say a 20 byte hash + 1 for some reason
292 2016-05-28T21:40:09 <arubi> great, more mysteries to keep me busy aside from borromean.pdf :)
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