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137 2016-06-25T07:56:09 <wumpus> well let's say the *intention* was for the language to be forth-like, e.g. opcodes such as ROLL and PICK and TUCK are from forth https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/script/script.h#L103
138 2016-06-25T07:57:54 <wumpus> of course there are other languages that compile to stack based bytecodes. But we don't have a high-level language that (de)compiles to/from bitcoin script, so everyone writes them as 'forth' way
139 2016-06-25T07:59:14 <wumpus> it's very uncommon to label a language based on what its bytecode looks like. Python could just as wel use a register-based bytecode without language changes. Java has Dalvik
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165 2016-06-25T09:21:31 <N3TCAT> Hey coders , how can I make my own bitcoin api to send bitcoin via web ?
166 2016-06-25T09:22:04 <N3TCAT> should I install bitcoin core and handle requests with web servers
167 2016-06-25T09:22:15 <N3TCAT> ?
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289 2016-06-25T17:48:59 <bsm117532> Will having extra data on the stack cause a Bitcoin script to fail? As in, place some arbitrary data in front of the signatures in scriptSig, using a P2SH address. This would allow the spender to reveal a secret that wasn't committed to in the P2SH address.
290 2016-06-25T17:49:07 <bsm117532> e.g. after evaluation the top of the stack is "true" but there are other data on the stack.
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293 2016-06-25T17:54:48 <jl2012> bsm117532: not in P2SH or bare scriptPubKey, but transactions like that are not standard and normally not mined
294 2016-06-25T17:55:29 <jl2012> and "reveal a secret that wasn't committed to in the P2SH address" is not safe as anyone can mutate the uncommitted data
295 2016-06-25T17:56:16 <jl2012> in segwit, scripts finished with more than one stack items will fail
296 2016-06-25T17:56:19 <bsm117532> jl2012: Arg true, the signature doesn't cover this data.
297 2016-06-25T17:56:42 <bsm117532> jl2012: The other thing to do is put an OP_DROP in the script.
298 2016-06-25T17:57:04 <bsm117532> But yes it could still be mutated...
299 2016-06-25T17:57:19 <bsm117532> Since the script is revealed at that point, someone could mutate it.
300 2016-06-25T17:59:27 <arubi> what do you mean? if you're using p2sh, and will only reveal the redeemscript when you actually want the transaction to be published, why not put the secret in the scriptpubkey and op_eqal, or same goes for its hash?
301 2016-06-25T18:00:18 <bsm117532> arubi: This is for secret data that you wish to reveal, but is not known at the time the script is initially funded.
302 2016-06-25T18:01:01 <bsm117532> I suppose one can do this with a more complex script: check a signature of the revealed data...so that it can't be mutated.
303 2016-06-25T18:01:15 <arubi> ah, so maybe use op_return and put the data in the output?
304 2016-06-25T18:01:58 <bsm117532> arubi: OP_RETURN is always a possibility, I was exploring alternativs.
305 2016-06-25T18:02:44 <bsm117532> In particular, the data I wish to reveal is associated with a specific output. OP_RETURN doesn't get associated with another output.
306 2016-06-25T18:03:06 <bsm117532> (It's super complicated -- I'm revealing a pubkey, and proving I control it)
307 2016-06-25T18:03:39 <arubi> it sounds interesting. do you have a template I could look at?
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309 2016-06-25T18:04:15 <bsm117532> Well I have a smart contract on another network...trying to duplicate its functionality with bitcoin transactions... ;-)
310 2016-06-25T18:04:36 <arubi> it sounds like the pubkey could be arbitrary, unless it was decided upon before you have to prove you control it?
311 2016-06-25T18:05:45 <bsm117532> arubi: Yes the pubkey could be arbitrary. What I'm trying to do is revoke a compromised key and replace it with a new one. (could be a bitcoin key, or a non-secp256k1 key used for other purposes)
312 2016-06-25T18:06:38 <arubi> so, you control the key being revoked, and want to assign a new one, right?
313 2016-06-25T18:06:52 <bsm117532> Correct.
314 2016-06-25T18:07:39 <bsm117532> Assume there's a mechanism by which an attacker who compromises my key *can't* submit this transaction.
315 2016-06-25T18:07:51 <arubi> right, so there's a section in sec1-v2.pdf, "Verifiable and Assisted Key Pair Generation and Validation"
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317 2016-06-25T18:08:19 <arubi> it's very interesting. you can build a transaction that commits to a signature, instead of a public key
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319 2016-06-25T18:08:45 <arubi> the r value of the signature comes from some k you have, but the s value can be anything
320 2016-06-25T18:09:26 <arubi> if you have a secret, you could hash it and put it as s
321 2016-06-25T18:10:02 <arubi> sign with k on some arbitrary transaction, which hash the new pubkey going into checksig with the sig
322 2016-06-25T18:10:34 <arubi> there you have the new key. I can verify r = old key, s = hash(secret)
323 2016-06-25T18:11:07 <arubi> now, I'm not a cryptographer. I just played around with something similar not too long ago, so it's fresh in my mind
324 2016-06-25T18:11:14 <arubi> this might be completely broken for all I know
325 2016-06-25T18:11:41 <bsm117532> Very interesting. Thanks for the pointer!
326 2016-06-25T18:11:53 <bsm117532> It will take me some time to digest that...
327 2016-06-25T18:12:03 <arubi> cheers. do tell what comes from it
328 2016-06-25T18:12:57 <bsm117532> I hadn't been thinking "an authority may wish to contribute to the generation", but rather that I simply want to provide key replacement, as an individual, and using a transaction as the mechanism to replace it. (So, doesn't need fancy crypto, just a little bit of Script)
329 2016-06-25T18:14:22 <arubi> I think the authority could mean the revoker. I also think the 'r' value should be a point addition of the revoked pubkey and some secret "master" key which is secure, because you said the old key was compromised
330 2016-06-25T18:16:08 <bsm117532> I'm assuming the old key is compromised, but there are two keys, the second one is used specifically to create the revocation/replacement transaction for the first.
331 2016-06-25T18:16:27 <bsm117532> It's left as an exercise to the reader how to make sure they don't both get compromised at the same time.
332 2016-06-25T18:17:10 <arubi> right, but using the scheme I described, there has to be a third trusted uncompromised key. if the r value would be just the old key, then an attacker could revoke a key himself
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334 2016-06-25T18:17:38 <arubi> so a 'revoker' has the authority to revoke a key if he can provide a signature in the form of 'r = (old key + master key), s = hash(secret)', and the public key to verify such a revoke operation (a transaction) is the new public key
335 2016-06-25T18:18:47 <bsm117532> I see. I question the value of the fancy crypto here, when one could do the same thing using arbitrary, unrelated keys.
336 2016-06-25T18:19:18 <bsm117532> Holding two keys is not a problem for most. ;-)
337 2016-06-25T18:20:30 <arubi> so, revoke a key the usual way by telling a key directory?
338 2016-06-25T18:20:47 <bsm117532> arubi: Yes, where that key directory is called Bitcoin.
339 2016-06-25T18:21:44 <arubi> oh sure, the only reason I think fancy crypto is needed is because it's hard to prove a valid revocation once the key is compromised
340 2016-06-25T18:22:55 <bsm117532> arubi: I'd say that it's impossible to prove a valid revocation, period. You can make chains of additional secrets that you hope aren't compromised, but you can't actually know. Best you can do is require the compromise of multiple secrets, and then it's up to you to create a policy about how to store those secrets.
341 2016-06-25T18:23:42 <bsm117532> If I'm going to trust your revocation method, I might want to audit your key storage protocols.
342 2016-06-25T18:24:00 <bsm117532> But for an individual, imagine this kind of key replacement defining the chain of custody for my coins...
343 2016-06-25T18:25:57 <arubi> I agree that it's turtles all the way down when trust is involved. there's no perfect method, and there could only be that many factors until it's too cumbersome
344 2016-06-25T18:31:00 <bsm117532> There's nothing new to say about trust really, but what interests me is the ability to have a distributed revocation/replacement mechanism using transactions. That's new. CRL's are centralized and rarely checked.
345 2016-06-25T18:31:45 <arubi> blockchains are checked on silly websites and are often spammed :)
346 2016-06-25T18:33:49 <arubi> if everyone are hosting their own key servers, and absolutely everybody tells everybody else about keys, then we have something, but most folks don't run a node
347 2016-06-25T18:34:09 <arubi> they use 3rd party services to query the chain, then we're back to where we started
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409 2016-06-25T23:00:12 <arioBarzan> what is the difference between OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and OP_CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY ?
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