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237 2016-10-17T20:34:00  <DanielMycelium> just for better understanding, what might be the reason that a testnet3 segwit transaction does not get mined quickly? i made one ~8h ago and its still in some mempools, but some blockexplorer dont find it at all.
238 2016-10-17T20:34:58  <achow101> it could be the recently merged policy stuff that is preventing the transaction from being confirmed
239 2016-10-17T20:35:33  <DanielMycelium> my understanding is, it is non-standard but valid for nodes <v0.13 (=>thus it wont get mined, but a block with it would be valid), and its standard and valid for >=v0.13 (they would mine it) --> does that mean, nobody is mining with v0.13 on testnet?
240 2016-10-17T20:36:35  <achow101> no, it is possible that people are actually mining with 0.13.1rc1 (which was just tagged, so not actually released) and that introduced several new policy limits.
241 2016-10-17T20:37:12  <DanielMycelium> @achow101, i thought segwit was activated on testnet long ago (block-wise)
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243 2016-10-17T20:37:59  <moli> DanielMycelium, it should , try broadcast it again
244 2016-10-17T20:38:17  <achow101> it was. There were several local node policy changes that were recently implemented which may have (probably has) been deployed on testnet now
245 2016-10-17T20:38:29  <Lightsword> I’ve been doing most of the segwit mining on testnet and I’ve been using master
246 2016-10-17T20:38:29  <achow101> these don't affect consensus rules but rather what the node accepts into the mempool
247 2016-10-17T20:38:32  <DanielMycelium> i have broadcasted it with a well connected node (two different actually, and via https://testnet.smartbit.com.au )
248 2016-10-17T20:38:33  <achow101> see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/8499
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251 2016-10-17T20:51:46  <moli> i just sent a segwit tx and it got confirmed:  https://testnet.smartbit.com.au/tx/6673d16c8786471cdafcb95253a7f5ac751da6a8fff8db15ba6c7a2f2da5e316
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261 2016-10-17T21:26:58  <moli> mega Segwit block on Testnet a few min ago:  tps://testnet.smartbit.com.au/block/0000000000000cc29b9d00ad0b5497a2be3aa00f3e93405f4e017a5ed4aaba70
262 2016-10-17T21:28:27  <Lightsword> moli, yeah that’s one I mined
263 2016-10-17T21:28:53  <moli> Lightsword, thank you :)
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278 2016-10-17T22:08:18  <murch> It seems that I've just found a Coin Selection algorithm that has the UTXO footprint of Core, and costs less fees than HighestPriority. It does that by creating 40% direct matches.
279 2016-10-17T22:11:11  <murch> If I introduce an additional random element, it actually quarters the UTXO footprint of Core, and still has a lower cost than any approach I've presented
280 2016-10-17T22:11:42  <murch> And it's _fast_ in comparison. :)
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287 2016-10-17T22:43:21  <instagibbs> murch, feel free to elaborate :)
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289 2016-10-17T22:44:04  <murch> instagibbs: Well, I was thinking about how Core has all these steps to create Direct Matches, but in my simulation only manages 0.5% Direct Matches.
290 2016-10-17T22:45:39  <murch> instagibbs: So, I figured that I could try a depth-first-search on the UTXO set. I step down each UTXO by selecting or not selecting it.
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293 2016-10-17T22:46:35  <murch> Since I know how much an input will cost, I can just tally up "effectiveValue" by reducing the UTXO value by the cost of spending it. That way, when I find a match, I immediately have also figured out the fee.
294 2016-10-17T22:47:39  <murch> I figured, I can broaden the "direct match range" by the cost of one input and one output, because the change output must first be created and then later spent. So as long as I don't exceed that cost, I'll still save money by finding a direct match.
295 2016-10-17T22:48:03  <murch> Anyway, it turns out that doing a DFS on the UTXO set is much smaller than the knapsack thing we have currently in Core.
296 2016-10-17T22:48:59  <murch> And by pruning search branches when they exceed target + one input + one output, it actually becomes a fairly small search path.
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299 2016-10-17T22:51:16  <murch> instagibbs: So, it's kinda deterministic, but on the other hand any observers would usually not know what my UTXO pool is anyway.
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301 2016-10-17T22:53:01  <murch> As a fall-back, if I don't find a direct match with the DFS, I just select randomly.
302 2016-10-17T22:53:53  <murch> instagibbs: And the whole thing is about 60 lines of code including finding a sufficient fee. :)
303 2016-10-17T22:53:53  <instagibbs> Not sure I totally get it (I'll wait for a more involved description) but I imagine there are ways of reintroducing some cheap randomness for privacy
304 2016-10-17T22:54:04  <instagibbs> or code even
305 2016-10-17T22:55:28  <murch> instagibbs: I've also tried it on the shuffled UTXO pool. Still does about 20% direct matches, and only slightly reduces the cost. It reduces the UTXO footprint to about a fourth of what Core achieved on the set.
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307 2016-10-17T22:55:49  <murch> *increases the cost
308 2016-10-17T22:57:52  <instagibbs> why does a "structured" utxo pool increase direct matches?
309 2016-10-17T23:00:19  <murch> instagibbs: I've set a limit on the DFS as otherwise it would sometimes take multiple seconds.
310 2016-10-17T23:00:23  <murch> instagibbs: https://github.com/Xekyo/CoinSelectionSimulator/blob/fe3f6ad2e882ac68cbc122bc4813ebc5996ef105/src/BnBWallet.scala#L11
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313 2016-10-17T23:05:17  <murch> sorry, I just hacked that down this evening, so it's maybe not the easiest to access.
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315 2016-10-17T23:13:09  <instagibbs> ah ok, got it
316 2016-10-17T23:19:12  <murch> instagibbs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dzugGnAw2nBNL_BwpFR44jci8rO3RkkF5M9OcP2ESN0/pubhtml ← Results of five trials in comparison to the results I presented at Scaling Bitcoin.
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318 2016-10-17T23:21:13  <murch> Anyway, finally I can say something more sophisticated than "just try random selection". ;)
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