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159 2017-02-25T17:24:10 <tommygunner> evening
160 2017-02-25T17:24:35 <tommygunner> what happens if i use replace-by-fee but a transaction with the lower fee is confirmed first
161 2017-02-25T17:25:04 <tommygunner> does the one/the ones with higher fee clear from the mempool automagically or do they hang around
162 2017-02-25T17:33:20 <arubi> tommygunner, replace by fee also means that you're double spending the low fee transaction, so if it does get confirmed eventually, the higher fee one is no longer valid
163 2017-02-25T17:34:29 <arubi> they're both valid before one is in a block, but will not appear together in someone's mempool. only one of them will
164 2017-02-25T17:34:31 <tommygunner> i think the problem is with the receiving end's implementation
165 2017-02-25T17:35:16 <arubi> shouldn't be? they can't live together on the same mempool, and if the "other one" gets in a block, then the one you have will be dropped from your mempool
166 2017-02-25T17:36:11 <tommygunner> the old ones are still listed on their website as unconfirmed transactions
167 2017-02-25T17:36:34 <tommygunner> i think i will mail them and ask about replace-by-fee
168 2017-02-25T17:37:14 <arubi> if they are an actual double spend of the one that did get confirmed (one of the inputs is double spent), then yea, not so useful to have the unconfirmed one listed (except for historical use I guess)
169 2017-02-25T17:37:31 <arubi> s/they are/it is
170 2017-02-25T17:38:40 <tommygunner> that would mean the only way to resolve it is wait for a long time until they drop it
171 2017-02-25T17:39:26 <arubi> I don't understand, did the original transaction also pay to them?
172 2017-02-25T17:39:45 <arubi> I guess it did if you used RBF
173 2017-02-25T17:40:36 <arubi> anyway, yea, weird. if the original one is in a block, then why track this one? that's what happens when services track txid's instead of supplying the customer with a unique address :)
174 2017-02-25T17:40:37 <tommygunner> its a little bit complicated because it was someone else that did it
175 2017-02-25T17:40:55 <arubi> it doesn't really matter who pays the address
176 2017-02-25T17:41:00 <tommygunner> and the first time it wasnt really a RBF but manually double spending
177 2017-02-25T17:41:04 <tommygunner> with a higher fee
178 2017-02-25T17:41:22 <arubi> oh, so are you sure you paid to their address in both transactions?
179 2017-02-25T17:42:05 <tommygunner> yeah
180 2017-02-25T17:42:45 <arubi> wonder if they used the unconfirmed funds in their own transactions and now have some chain that will never confirm
181 2017-02-25T17:42:46 <tommygunner> that should not have happened, the fee increase should have been done by sending an output to your own address and not to them again
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183 2017-02-25T17:43:29 <arubi> the fee increase can be done any way you want
184 2017-02-25T17:43:52 <arubi> the important thing is to actually double spend one of the inputs so that you don't have two independent valid transactions
185 2017-02-25T17:44:53 <tommygunner> the way i did it before RBF was if there was an output in the unconfirmed transaction that i have control over, just send that to myself again with a high enough fee
186 2017-02-25T17:45:05 <arubi> that's CPFP
187 2017-02-25T17:45:57 <tommygunner> yeah the guy i told to do that accidentally sent it to them again
188 2017-02-25T17:46:07 <tommygunner> so its a little bit of a fucked up situation
189 2017-02-25T17:46:34 <arubi> then there are two independent valid transactions, it's neither RBF or CPFP :)
190 2017-02-25T17:46:52 <arubi> unless you mean he used the unconfirmed output to send it to them again?
191 2017-02-25T17:47:14 <arubi> (and not just "send again" which won't use unconfirmed outputs by default)
192 2017-02-25T17:47:43 <tommygunner> yeah the unconfirmed output to them again
193 2017-02-25T17:47:46 <tommygunner> a nice figure 8
194 2017-02-25T17:47:58 <arubi> and you say that one got confirmed?
195 2017-02-25T17:48:22 <arubi> the child has to confirm before the parent (can be on the same block, but physically before it)
196 2017-02-25T17:48:31 <arubi> er, after the parent
197 2017-02-25T17:48:43 <arubi> so, the low fee one has to be confirmed as well
198 2017-02-25T17:48:51 <tommygunner> the CPFP was a RBF
199 2017-02-25T17:49:01 <tommygunner> or something weird
200 2017-02-25T17:49:08 <arubi> makes little sense :)
201 2017-02-25T17:49:47 <tommygunner> obviously the first transaction is confirmed because without that none of the RBF could be
202 2017-02-25T17:50:01 <arubi> nope, in RBF only one transaction confirms
203 2017-02-25T17:50:12 <arubi> with CPFP, both confirm
204 2017-02-25T17:50:29 <arubi> both, or whatever number in the chain. could also be that the parent is confirmed without the child
205 2017-02-25T17:50:51 <arubi> really I think you just paid twice :)
206 2017-02-25T18:06:39 <tommygunner> yes but i can withdraw again, or rather he
207 2017-02-25T18:06:48 <tommygunner> but only if the transactions are all confirmed
208 2017-02-25T18:09:59 <arubi> sounds like your problem isn't very related to bitcoin development, try emailing that service
209 2017-02-25T18:10:35 <tommygunner> yeah i know, i just wanted some general info about rbf
210 2017-02-25T18:11:05 <tommygunner> thanks for chatting, heh
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217 2017-02-25T19:05:05 <arubi> oh np
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