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223 2017-07-18T14:11:57  <SopaXorzTaker> I have an idea to improve decentralization by preventing pooled mining.
224 2017-07-18T14:12:35  <SopaXorzTaker> The idea is to add a signature field to the block structure, which would contribute to the Proof-of-Work hash
225 2017-07-18T14:12:59  <SopaXorzTaker> The miner then would have to sign the block with a public key corresponding to the coinbase address before submitting it.
226 2017-07-18T14:14:25  <SopaXorzTaker> This would make pooled mining infeasible, as every miner would have to have access to the pool's private key.
227 2017-07-18T14:15:36  <Emcy> i think that would just make huge private farms supreme
228 2017-07-18T14:15:40  <SopaXorzTaker> The signature field would contain a standard DER signature and would contribute to the header's hash, thus making PoW require signing the block
229 2017-07-18T14:16:25  <SopaXorzTaker> This would also thwart ASICs to some degree, and the PoW function would become a bit computationally harder
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242 2017-07-18T14:50:24  <lavenders> what is the difference between segwit2.x and segwit bip9?
243 2017-07-18T14:51:49  <lavenders> after bip91 activation is HFork on 1.8 possible?
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249 2017-07-18T15:28:35  <goatpig> BIP9 uses a 95% activation threshold, that's reduced to 80% in the process that is part of 2x, after signaling from another bit first.
250 2017-07-18T15:28:56  <goatpig> not sure what 1.8 refers to
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254 2017-07-18T15:57:23  <Murch> goatpig: probably August 1st.
255 2017-07-18T15:57:49  <Murch> lavenders: Segwit2x's hardfork is planned for 90 days after segwit activation.
256 2017-07-18T15:58:55  <Murch> lavenders: The only faction planning a hard fork is the newly announced "Bitcoin Cash" championed by BitcoinABC.
257 2017-07-18T15:59:15  <Murch> lavenders: I don't expect this to be of significant interest in the greater Bitcoin landscape. :p
258 2017-07-18T16:01:48  <goatpig> oic, the . got me confused
259 2017-07-18T16:02:33  <Murch> goatpig: I'm at an advantage, I'm familiar with the German address format (which in full would be 1.8.2017) ;)
260 2017-07-18T16:02:52  <goatpig> hah, we use / in france!
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262 2017-07-18T16:18:40  <notmike> We should increase bitcoin's transaction capacity.
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266 2017-07-18T16:46:05  <lavenders> Murch, thank you
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268 2017-07-18T16:50:33  <goatpig> Murch: what about UASF forking?
269 2017-07-18T16:50:57  <Murch> UASF is a soft fork, not a hard fork
270 2017-07-18T16:51:01  <goatpig> if some portion of the hash rate does not signal SW and the BIP91 gang mines atop of them, UASF would fork
271 2017-07-18T16:51:10  <goatpig> it will split since it only accepts signaling blocks
272 2017-07-18T16:51:14  <Murch> yeah, it could introduce a chain split
273 2017-07-18T16:51:19  <Murch> but that doesn't make it a hard fork
274 2017-07-18T16:51:33  <goatpig> no it doesn't, but for all intents and purposes, people interchange HF and split
275 2017-07-18T16:51:49  <Murch> It pains me, because they mean different things.
276 2017-07-18T16:51:54  <goatpig> indeed
277 2017-07-18T16:52:34  <Murch> You can lead a horse to water, …
278 2017-07-18T16:52:35  <Murch> https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/q/30817/5406
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280 2017-07-18T16:54:27  <notmike> If UASF orphans valid blocks, that's a hard fork.
281 2017-07-18T16:55:34  <goatpig> that sentence is too semantically blurry
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283 2017-07-18T16:55:57  <notmike> Ok, let me get my crayons real qwik
284 2017-07-18T16:56:21  <goatpig> be my guest
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286 2017-07-18T16:59:10  <notmike> Everybody is on one bitcoin. On Aug 1st UASF will begin orphaning non-bit1 signaling nodes, presumably miners will cooperate. Some time later - perhaps September - miners (80%+ of hash) will hard fork to >2mb blocks. At that point, there will be two mutually exclusive bitcoins. However, prior to this (Aug 2st) UASF
287 2017-07-18T17:00:01  <notmike> ... will have already split the chain by excluding BIP 91 blocks and anything other than BIP 148 conforming blocks.
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289 2017-07-18T17:01:29  <goatpig> UASF nodes do not reject BIP91 blocks per se
290 2017-07-18T17:02:14  <goatpig> with the timeframe as outlined by 2x, there would be no more BIP91 signaling by August 1st, they'd already be pushing bit1
291 2017-07-18T17:03:06  <goatpig> the only instance where UASF splits from the current chain is if the NYA miners do not orphan blocks without bit1 flagged
292 2017-07-18T17:03:49  <notmike> So, UASF will accept segwit2x and anything else until they produce a non-bit1 signaling or >2mb block?
293 2017-07-18T17:04:02  <goatpig> not exactly
294 2017-07-18T17:04:11  <goatpig> if 2x mines a top a non bit1 flagged block
295 2017-07-18T17:04:13  <goatpig> UASF splits
296 2017-07-18T17:04:19  <goatpig> if they don't, the split is at 2x
297 2017-07-18T17:04:27  <goatpig> ie the actual HF
298 2017-07-18T17:04:35  <notmike> Right, this is all intentionally designed to produce a fork
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300 2017-07-18T17:04:45  <goatpig> a split actually
301 2017-07-18T17:04:49  <goatpig> the fork is baked in to begin with
302 2017-07-18T17:05:13  <goatpig> this would create a split before the HF would be more accurate
303 2017-07-18T17:05:15  <notmike> Split and fork are awfully similar
304 2017-07-18T17:05:27  <goatpig> not exactly, you can splits during orphan races
305 2017-07-18T17:05:40  <goatpig> both sides of the split follow the same consensus
306 2017-07-18T17:05:57  <goatpig> HF imposes a different consensus
307 2017-07-18T17:06:13  <notmike> I understand that two blocks could be produced at the same time and that those could cause a split
308 2017-07-18T17:06:59  <goatpig> as for the question is UASF effectively a HF under the current circumstances?
309 2017-07-18T17:07:09  <goatpig> idk if it can be characterized as such
310 2017-07-18T17:07:31  <notmike> Right, it's effectively a HF. But not technically because consensus layer is still compatible
311 2017-07-18T17:07:49  <goatpig> well that distinction is kinda vague to me
312 2017-07-18T17:08:03  <goatpig> UASF could wipe out the 2x chain if they get more hash rate pre 2x HF
313 2017-07-18T17:08:14  <notmike> I was discussing this with gmaxwell in the mid-80s. It's a tough question.
314 2017-07-18T17:08:31  <goatpig> but a HF without wipeout protection, like say BU, is susceptible to the same issue
315 2017-07-18T17:08:48  <notmike> I don't see any way for UASF to do that. Opponents own 80% of hash!
316 2017-07-18T17:08:59  <goatpig> hash rate follows the money
317 2017-07-18T17:09:41  <goatpig> and a minute instance is not useful to a fundamental analysis
318 2017-07-18T17:09:48  <notmike> That's true. Can LN and sidechains prove their value before miners set the house on fire?
319 2017-07-18T17:10:07  <goatpig> well the idea of 2x under this schedule is precisely to prevent this
320 2017-07-18T17:10:20  <goatpig> I would imagine it would take a year for the ecosystem to get really going with LN
321 2017-07-18T17:10:36  <goatpig> for my part I wouldn't be able to deliver LN functionality in under 3 months starting August
322 2017-07-18T17:10:53  <notmike> I get it. Politics is what I do. Bitcoin is particularly transparent. The miners are generating an artificial crises.
323 2017-07-18T17:11:13  <goatpig> it's disruption but with an unclear endgame
324 2017-07-18T17:11:15  <notmike> But they're also in control of most of the votes
325 2017-07-18T17:11:30  <goatpig> as long as hash rate votes for forks, that is true
326 2017-07-18T17:11:30  <notmike> User opinions don't matter in bitcoin
327 2017-07-18T17:11:59  <goatpig> the network effect matters
328 2017-07-18T17:12:06  <notmike> I mean, they matter, but I think you're picking up what I'm laying down here.
329 2017-07-18T17:12:43  <goatpig> if valuation is an indicator, so far the market/users are happy with the status quo
330 2017-07-18T17:12:48  <notmike> As long as the TXs get confirmed quickly, people will take what they get.
331 2017-07-18T17:12:56  <goatpig> well that depends
332 2017-07-18T17:13:00  <goatpig> people like me would never run 2x
333 2017-07-18T17:13:16  <goatpig> if you lose a huge portion of your technical ecosystem over this kind of take over
334 2017-07-18T17:13:23  <goatpig> you will be trouble in no time
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336 2017-07-18T17:13:48  <notmike> I don't mine bitcoin, that's crazy!
337 2017-07-18T17:14:32  <goatpig> a non 2x split can survive just fine
338 2017-07-18T17:14:39  <goatpig> take a 6-8 weeks of pain for the retarget
339 2017-07-18T17:14:43  <goatpig> assuming some 20% hashrate
340 2017-07-18T17:14:48  <goatpig> and you're in the clear
341 2017-07-18T17:14:56  <goatpig> afterall etc is alive
342 2017-07-18T17:15:10  <goatpig> and they don't even have the technical community on their side
343 2017-07-18T17:16:02  <notmike> Nah, man, just set retarget to 288 blocks w/ reset to 2016 48hrs after that, and issue a very public oporder
344 2017-07-18T17:16:25  <goatpig> sure that's acceptable too
345 2017-07-18T17:16:37  <goatpig> if you are in the politics of no HF, the wait period is acceptable however
346 2017-07-18T17:16:49  <goatpig> and you get to enforce some idea of integrity
347 2017-07-18T17:17:14  <notmike> Yeah, definitely! One problem with bitcoin is everyone wants to rush shit.
348 2017-07-18T17:17:38  <goatpig> im fine with the status quo really
349 2017-07-18T17:17:47  <notmike> Need a new lambo!
350 2017-07-18T17:17:57  <goatpig> there's eth ICOs for that
351 2017-07-18T17:18:15  <goatpig> let's segregate duties
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353 2017-07-18T17:25:30  <notmike> Do you wanna bed friends now?
354 2017-07-18T17:25:36  <notmike> Be* yikes
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378 2017-07-18T18:29:22  <goatpig> i dont care either way?
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413 2017-07-18T21:45:53  <notmike> goatpig: well that's just sad
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419 2017-07-18T22:09:51  <goatpig> such is life
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428 2017-07-18T22:49:47  <eck> what's the convention with these global variables prefixed with f? e.g. fRequestShutdown and fDumpMempoolLater
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