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  6 2017-07-31T01:13:32  <danielmetlitski> How does Bitcoin prevent someone modifying the key generation code to pick a specific address to generate a private key for?
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 13 2017-07-31T01:25:50  <ivan> danielmetlitski: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/a-relatively-easy-to-understand-primer-on-elliptic-curve-cryptography/
 14 2017-07-31T01:26:00  <ivan> (or a better resource, there are a hundred)
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 16 2017-07-31T01:26:36  <danielmetlitski> text wall
 17 2017-07-31T01:30:41  <danielmetlitski> an offline computer can generate a key
 18 2017-07-31T01:31:18  <danielmetlitski> that key can be used despite being generated offline
 19 2017-07-31T01:32:25  <danielmetlitski> and reverse engineering it to generate a private key for a non-random address is impossible??
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 22 2017-07-31T01:35:34  <danielmetlitski> sorry d/c’d for a sec
 23 2017-07-31T01:36:24  <danielmetlitski> and since sha256 was cracked a long time ago, it still uses sha256?
 24 2017-07-31T01:38:23  <achow101> danielmetlitski: sha256 wasn't "cracked"
 25 2017-07-31T01:40:26  <danielmetlitski> this is sha256, crack this its crackable
 26 2017-07-31T01:40:31  <danielmetlitski> 59b4dbb11c532b2590032e48a6165f754dab1a7a24f2d50b762e3891b9e2ab1f
 27 2017-07-31T01:40:50  <danielmetlitski> a surprise awaits
 28 2017-07-31T01:40:55  <achow101> what do you mean by "crackable"?
 29 2017-07-31T01:41:02  <achow101> preimage attack or collision attack?
 30 2017-07-31T01:41:14  <danielmetlitski> reverse this
 31 2017-07-31T01:41:15  <danielmetlitski> 59b4dbb11c532b2590032e48a6165f754dab1a7a24f2d50b762e3891b9e2ab1f
 32 2017-07-31T01:41:22  <danielmetlitski> i just used an online sha256 generator to make it
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 34 2017-07-31T01:42:00  <danielmetlitski> if you are unable to reverse it, ill show u how
 35 2017-07-31T01:42:06  <achow101> show me how
 36 2017-07-31T01:42:15  <danielmetlitski> https://md5hashing.net/hash
 37 2017-07-31T01:42:54  <achow101> a lookup table does not mean that it was cracked
 38 2017-07-31T01:43:03  <achow101> it just means that the site has a database of strings and their corresponding hashes
 39 2017-07-31T01:43:35  <danielmetlitski> my hash wasn’t pre-stored on that website
 40 2017-07-31T01:43:40  <achow101> it is in fact not "crackable"
 41 2017-07-31T01:45:08  <achow101> crack this then: 34e3a78f0142542197be9d6d9d4aac6e4c18f203e05cfc82c2d516829052942b
 42 2017-07-31T01:45:09  <danielmetlitski> http://jheusser.github.io/2013/02/03/satcoin.html
 43 2017-07-31T01:45:12  <achow101> I bet you can't
 44 2017-07-31T01:46:03  <danielmetlitski> is it sha 256
 45 2017-07-31T01:46:09  <achow101> yes
 46 2017-07-31T01:46:31  <achow101> anyways, sha256 is unrelated to key generation
 47 2017-07-31T01:46:51  <danielmetlitski> what is used for key generation
 48 2017-07-31T01:46:58  <achow101> a random number generator
 49 2017-07-31T01:47:05  <achow101> and then EC math
 50 2017-07-31T01:47:10  <danielmetlitski> well the source code is public
 51 2017-07-31T01:47:17  <achow101> so?
 52 2017-07-31T01:47:28  <danielmetlitski> can you change it to be non random
 53 2017-07-31T01:47:41  <danielmetlitski> say I wanted your wallet
 54 2017-07-31T01:47:49  <achow101> sure, but only for one implementation. it isn't a network wide thing
 55 2017-07-31T01:47:58  <danielmetlitski> what
 56 2017-07-31T01:48:02  <achow101> you can change your local implementation, but that won't effect anyone but you
 57 2017-07-31T01:48:25  <danielmetlitski> you can generate wallets offline that instantly with the bitcoin network
 58 2017-07-31T01:48:47  <achow101> instantly _what_ with the bitcoin network?
 59 2017-07-31T01:48:52  <danielmetlitski> yes
 60 2017-07-31T01:49:15  <danielmetlitski> like right now, you can generate wallets offline for Bitcoin, the private keys and address are generated offline
 61 2017-07-31T01:49:18  <achow101> yes
 62 2017-07-31T01:49:21  <achow101> so?
 63 2017-07-31T01:49:47  <danielmetlitski> if I change my local implementation to choose specific numbers that correspond to a hot wallet
 64 2017-07-31T01:50:04  <achow101> you don't know what numbers correspond to a hot wallet
 65 2017-07-31T01:50:06  <danielmetlitski> what prevents me from reversing it
 66 2017-07-31T01:50:18  <achow101> you can't, unless you have compromised the wallet itself
 67 2017-07-31T01:50:28  <achow101> how do you plan on reversing it?
 68 2017-07-31T01:50:29  <danielmetlitski> what do you mean compromised
 69 2017-07-31T01:50:49  <danielmetlitski> by changing the random number generator
 70 2017-07-31T01:51:03  <achow101> the private keys are stored on that wallet. private keys cannot be derived from public keys (yet). public keys cannot be derived from addresses
 71 2017-07-31T01:51:11  <achow101> they are all one way functions
 72 2017-07-31T01:51:42  <danielmetlitski> yes but you can edit functions
 73 2017-07-31T01:51:47  <achow101> yes, you can decide to make your wallet choose a specific private key, but how do you know what that private keys is?
 74 2017-07-31T01:52:06  <danielmetlitski> how is it impossible to change it to generate specific things
 75 2017-07-31T01:52:17  <achow101> all of that stuff happens locally wallet side and some of it is network consensus rules
 76 2017-07-31T01:52:36  <achow101> so you can't change it unless you have access to the computer or you convince the other person to run software that you have written
 77 2017-07-31T01:52:48  <danielmetlitski> well the part I don’t understand is, is why is it impossible to reverse engineer this
 78 2017-07-31T01:52:58  <danielmetlitski> we have all the source code
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 80 2017-07-31T01:53:23  <achow101> it is impossible to reverse engineer it because the mathematics behind all of the crypto functions makes it so that it is impossible to do
 81 2017-07-31T01:53:33  <achow101> it has nothing to do with source code; it's all properties of math
 82 2017-07-31T01:53:38  <danielmetlitski> I understand it’s “probability” and “encryption” but I want specifics
 83 2017-07-31T01:53:45  <achow101> there is no encryption
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 85 2017-07-31T01:54:13  <danielmetlitski> are you a dev achow101?
 86 2017-07-31T01:54:19  <achow101> yes-ish
 87 2017-07-31T01:54:57  <danielmetlitski> cuz you can’t explain specifically what prevents it from being reverse engineered
 88 2017-07-31T01:55:20  <danielmetlitski> I’m not trying to hack people, I am doing my due dilligence on if bitcoin is a trully secure entity to hold my funds
 89 2017-07-31T01:55:21  <achow101> it's cryptography that I don't quite remember the details of. cryptography and code implementation are different things
 90 2017-07-31T01:55:36  <achow101> I work on things not related to cryptography
 91 2017-07-31T01:55:54  <danielmetlitski> grr so you have no clue what you are talking about >.<
 92 2017-07-31T01:56:11  <achow101> no, i do, i just don't remember the specifics for ecdsa
 93 2017-07-31T01:56:37  <danielmetlitski> so what about SAT mining
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 95 2017-07-31T01:59:29  <danielmetlitski> maybe I’ll try SAT mining on my S9’s and see if it’s still possible, has anyone done it yet?
 96 2017-07-31T02:08:36  <achow101> danielmetlitski: you can't get private keys from public keys because of the discrete logarithm problem
 97 2017-07-31T02:09:12  <danielmetlitski> bruh it’s not even real numbers
 98 2017-07-31T02:09:57  <achow101> ?
 99 2017-07-31T02:09:59  <danielmetlitski> The NSA has broken it
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101 2017-07-31T02:10:21  <achow101> no. the NSA broke a random number generator that was based on elliptic curves
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103 2017-07-31T02:10:28  <achow101> they did not break ECC itself
104 2017-07-31T02:10:44  <danielmetlitski> they are able to break much of currency cryptography
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106 2017-07-31T02:10:58  <danielmetlitski> according 2 this
107 2017-07-31T02:10:59  <danielmetlitski> https://weakdh.org/imperfect-forward-secrecy-ccs15.pdf
108 2017-07-31T02:11:29  <danielmetlitski> u know what the NSA does right
109 2017-07-31T02:11:44  <achow101> diffie hellman is unrelated to this
110 2017-07-31T02:12:17  <danielmetlitski> the reason the NSA are able to do it is the reason the US goes after people like Alexander Vinnik
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112 2017-07-31T02:13:34  <danielmetlitski> he’s gonna get to keep his money, go into witness protection, and work with the NSA to compromise even further
113 2017-07-31T02:13:53  <achow101> and now you're just trolling
114 2017-07-31T02:14:48  <danielmetlitski> if you think that the US government doesn’t have the network key to BTC then you are the troll
115 2017-07-31T02:15:16  <achow101> "network key" wtf are you talking about? THere is no "network key". Clearly you don't understand how Bitcoin or cryptography works
116 2017-07-31T02:16:07  <danielmetlitski> the source code repository and network alert key
117 2017-07-31T02:16:20  <achow101> the source code is on github
118 2017-07-31T02:16:22  <danielmetlitski> he gave it to Gavin Andresen, a CIA operative
119 2017-07-31T02:16:28  <achow101> the alert system was dismantled
120 2017-07-31T02:17:36  <achow101> the alert system no longer works since every single node 0.14.0+ will broadcast to all nodes that still have the alert system (defined by having a certain protocol verison number) a final alert that cannot be overridden
121 2017-07-31T02:17:36  <danielmetlitski> Nakamoto is clearly under witness protection, they let him keep his money but made him sell majority stake & hand over project access
122 2017-07-31T02:17:52  <achow101> the alert system doesn't even do anything anyways except display whatever message you want
123 2017-07-31T02:18:13  <achow101> gavin doesn't have access to the project anymore. his commit access was revoked
124 2017-07-31T02:18:33  <achow101> and satoshi was never involved with it on github as the move to github occured long after he left
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126 2017-07-31T02:20:21  <danielmetlitski> well no doubt but the US just kidnaps a Russian national in Greece who destabilized Bitcoin
127 2017-07-31T02:21:20  <danielmetlitski> no vested interest?
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258 2017-07-31T18:20:34  <nerdcore> bitcoind requires Berkeley DB 4.8 for backward compatibility on wallets, right? What version would have used 4.8? I'd like to know if I need it or not while building a new version
259 2017-07-31T18:20:45  <nerdcore> I don't know what bdb version my wallet is. How could I tell?
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261 2017-07-31T18:24:07  <arubi> `db_verify wallet.dat` will tell you if you have the 'db*-util' package
262 2017-07-31T18:30:30  <nerdcore> arubi I do not seem to have a `db_verify` command installed
263 2017-07-31T18:31:06  <nerdcore> I'd like to compile the latest code but I don't know whether I need bdb 4.8 or not
264 2017-07-31T18:35:37  <arubi> nerdcore, you can use the depends system to build with all the proper libraries
265 2017-07-31T18:36:20  <arubi> are you running linux?
266 2017-07-31T18:37:16  <nerdcore> ah yes I recall something like that. Yes I am on Debian
267 2017-07-31T18:37:40  <nerdcore> (I'm sure I did this correctly last year...)
268 2017-07-31T18:39:22  <arubi> okay, so as long as you have these : "build-essential libtool autotools-dev automake pkg-config libssl-dev libevent-dev bsdmainutils" , you can then cd into the depends directory and run `make`
269 2017-07-31T18:40:23  <arubi> then cd .. back to the root dir, and you can run something like `./configure --prefix="$PWD/depends/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"`
270 2017-07-31T18:40:23  <arubi> (if that's your "triplet")
271 2017-07-31T18:40:23  <arubi> then `make` from the root directory will use the libs from the depends build
272 2017-07-31T18:48:26  <nerdcore> riiiiight. thx. Is this documented somewhere? It's not obvious when you untar and the README points you to "doc/build-*.txt"
273 2017-07-31T18:48:40  <nerdcore> (IMO)
274 2017-07-31T18:50:34  <arubi> it's in build-unix.md and the README.md in ./depends
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276 2017-07-31T18:52:42  <arubi> yea I agree it's got a bit of "lore" in it.  this process isn't described literally
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279 2017-07-31T19:04:29  <nerdcore> I've fired the depends make job. It'll take a while...
280 2017-07-31T19:05:15  <nerdcore> it is a nice fast system but many of its CPU cores are busy folding proteins for dogecoin lol
281 2017-07-31T19:06:50  <arubi> hehehe, gl
282 2017-07-31T19:11:18  <nerdcore> I'm sure I've done this before, I just always forget to have bitcoind build its own dependencies first :(
283 2017-07-31T19:11:27  <nerdcore> then link 'em
284 2017-07-31T19:11:31  <nerdcore> thx for the tip
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286 2017-07-31T19:12:07  <nerdcore> i have an ubuntu 14.04 system where I built against system bdb-4.8 and it worked fine but there was no simple debian 8 pkg
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288 2017-07-31T19:13:05  <arubi> right, there's either the clean depends way, or add the ppa to apt.  really it's great to have everything self contained in depends
289 2017-07-31T19:14:52  <nerdcore> seems like this might, by chance, build a more stable binary. but that's just speculation
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