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184 2017-09-29T10:56:50 <lxer> ZMQ zmqpubrawtx seems to send 3 messages for each transaction, the second having the actual data, so what are the other 2 for?
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284 2017-09-29T18:53:17 <esotericnonsense> lxer: what do they look like? :)
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290 2017-09-29T19:21:43 <lxer> esotericnonsense: ok, got it. first one translates to 'rawtx' . the 3rd one is a hex value like 9a510500 . what is it for?
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292 2017-09-29T19:26:08 <esotericnonsense> lxer: so the first one is the published zeromq topic (in multipart messages it's always that, that's how zmq pubsub works)
293 2017-09-29T19:28:23 <esotericnonsense> the last one is a sequence number (little endian according to the code). looks quite high, not sure if it starts from 0, how long has bitcoind been running? :)
294 2017-09-29T19:31:21 <lxer> are you sure that is how pubsub works? I already set a topic filter in socket.setsockopt(zmq.SUBSCRIBE, "rawtx") , shouldnt that filter it out already? I've used ZMQ for other projects, but never the pubsub, so perhaps that is different from what I'm used to.. ?
295 2017-09-29T19:31:42 <esotericnonsense> lxer: yes i've worked with pubsub rather a lot in the past :)
296 2017-09-29T19:32:07 <esotericnonsense> lxer: it's not echoing your subscription back to you, rather it gives you the topic published
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298 2017-09-29T19:32:28 <lxer> I usually get just 1 message.
299 2017-09-29T19:32:42 <esotericnonsense> for example if the publisher sends out on "CHOCOLATEBAR" and you subscribe to "CHOC" the messages will be ["CHOCOLATEBAR", *parts]
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301 2017-09-29T19:36:38 <cluelessperson> how large of a database do you think a bitcoin postgresql database would be?
302 2017-09-29T19:36:50 <esotericnonsense> cluelessperson: it really depends what you're storing
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304 2017-09-29T19:37:44 <cluelessperson> esotericnonsense: I'm thinking tables for, blocks, transactions, addresses
305 2017-09-29T19:38:23 <cluelessperson> esotericnonsense: I'm thinking about creating large flow visualizations
306 2017-09-29T19:39:11 <lxer> there have bee some projects about that. even making nice 3D images of transactions
307 2017-09-29T19:39:33 <esotericnonsense> cluelessperson: what i mean is the format of the things that you store. for example if you're indexing by txid anyway you can drop signature data.
308 2017-09-29T19:40:18 <esotericnonsense> if you store some big verbose transaction in a nonraw format then it will be much larger, etc.
309 2017-09-29T19:40:42 <cluelessperson> esotericnonsense: sorry, why can I drop signature data?
310 2017-09-29T19:40:52 <esotericnonsense> cluelessperson: well because you don't care for that specific purpose right.
311 2017-09-29T19:41:04 <cluelessperson> esotericnonsense: I want to be able to more easily/quickly parse through all the trnasactions
312 2017-09-29T19:41:29 <cluelessperson> esotericnonsense: render a data visualization
313 2017-09-29T19:41:38 <cluelessperson> but we're talking like 300million
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316 2017-09-29T19:42:48 <lxer> esotericnonsense: but then why is it sending the zmq topic again as a message? I never needed that when using some request/reply pattern , and the 'topic' still works as usual.
317 2017-09-29T19:44:33 <esotericnonsense> lxer: it's not 'again'
318 2017-09-29T19:44:38 <esotericnonsense> it's just how pubsub works
319 2017-09-29T19:46:55 <esotericnonsense> often you'll encode data in it because the topic needs to do that anyway
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321 2017-09-29T19:48:16 <esotericnonsense> for example if you have some stock ticker app or whatever and you have TICKER:AAPL, TICKER:GOOG, etc, if someone subscribes to TICKER, they get everything and can distinguish based on the topic rather than having to also include that in the payload
322 2017-09-29T19:49:13 <esotericnonsense> i'm not that up on the internal workings of ZeroMQ (it's been a while since I went digging there) but I suspect it can't even work through proxies if the topic weren't sent
323 2017-09-29T19:49:47 <esotericnonsense> (because the proxy wouldn't know where to route the messages)
324 2017-09-29T19:50:38 <lxer> I remember it differently. the topic filter is already set when creating the socket: socket.setsockopt(zmq.SUBSCRIBE, topicfilter) , and the messages from then on are already filtered by topic
325 2017-09-29T19:51:01 <esotericnonsense> the filters can be set or unset at any time
326 2017-09-29T19:51:30 <lxer> that is not the point
327 2017-09-29T19:51:41 <esotericnonsense> say you have a bunch of publishers, with a hub in the middle, then some subscribers
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329 2017-09-29T19:52:11 <esotericnonsense> the subscribers will sub to the hub, the hub will subscribe to the publishers, and when the hub receives a message, it uses the topic to route to the subscribers
330 2017-09-29T19:52:16 <esotericnonsense> without having that topic, it doesn't work
331 2017-09-29T19:52:47 <lxer> a 'hub'? I always connect directly
332 2017-09-29T19:52:49 <esotericnonsense> (I can see how in the simple pub -> sub model with no middleman it doesn't seem necessary)
333 2017-09-29T19:52:57 <esotericnonsense> yeah, but zmq is designed to scale in that way
334 2017-09-29T19:53:38 <lxer> no sorry, I think this design is not right.
335 2017-09-29T19:53:51 <esotericnonsense> the point is that you could have many publishers on different boxes whilst a subscriber doesn't have to do service discovery, it just needs the hub
336 2017-09-29T19:54:06 <lxer> there is no need to create so hub to have a second layer of filtering
337 2017-09-29T19:54:16 <esotericnonsense> it's not for filtering purposes
338 2017-09-29T19:54:31 <esotericnonsense> imagine your publishers are doing computationally intensive tasks
339 2017-09-29T19:55:23 <lxer> no, if you want to scale through proxies, then simply make a new pub/sub on the proxies, with a topic filter
340 2017-09-29T19:55:28 <esotericnonsense> you can't put them all on one box, so you route everything through a hub which just serves as a zmq proxy (this is actually a builtin, http://api.zeromq.org/3-2:zmq-proxy)
341 2017-09-29T19:56:29 <esotericnonsense> imagine another case without proxy if you will
342 2017-09-29T19:56:44 <esotericnonsense> (in fact i'm being silly for not having mentioned this earlier, sorry heh)
343 2017-09-29T19:57:06 <esotericnonsense> if you set multiple subscription topics on the same socket, how would you distinguish them on receipt without having the topic?
344 2017-09-29T19:57:22 <esotericnonsense> you'd have to encode that in the payload somehow
345 2017-09-29T19:57:33 <esotericnonsense> but the topic is already there, so just use that :)
346 2017-09-29T19:59:21 <esotericnonsense> perhaps my defence of pubsub mechanics is not to your liking, but, it is the way it is :P
347 2017-09-29T20:00:28 <esotericnonsense> there are other weirdnesses in pubsub, like on the publisher end if you use verbose sockets you can catch the subscription messages and not bother to send if no-one is subscribed
348 2017-09-29T20:03:04 <lxer> I'm using a pub/sub for some other project, where I just receive messages about a topic, send by the publisher (who set the topic also). always just 1 message, and not 3. and the topic-filter works as expected
349 2017-09-29T20:03:12 <cluelessperson> esotericnonsense: what size are we really talknb about here?
350 2017-09-29T20:04:43 <esotericnonsense> lxer: well you can send messages as topics if you want too
351 2017-09-29T20:05:09 <lxer> no, that is not what I mean.
352 2017-09-29T20:05:09 <esotericnonsense> i guess i'm calling it topic because i've never used it in that way, then the topic is just the payload
353 2017-09-29T20:06:20 <esotericnonsense> i think you can just publish without an envelope and make the first part of the message what you subscribe to (or subscribe to "")
354 2017-09-29T20:06:21 <lxer> I mean that it would just work the same if you left out message 1 and 3 , and only send the actual content (2nd message)
355 2017-09-29T20:07:32 <esotericnonsense> lxer: i think i'd understand this better with a code example
356 2017-09-29T20:08:21 <esotericnonsense> in python you could send non-multipart "something whatever" as a string, and subscribe to "something", it's the same just without the framing of multipart messages
357 2017-09-29T20:08:46 <lxer> ok, it is friday night over here and I want to do something else. lets talk about it again later
358 2017-09-29T20:08:56 <esotericnonsense> if you just send a blob of data with no topic then the subscriber can't filter messages
359 2017-09-29T20:09:29 <esotericnonsense> it would work in the specific case of bitcoind if you only published txids or only block hashes, but if both were enabled then you wouldn't know which was which
360 2017-09-29T20:09:40 <lxer> yes, the subscriber does filter, that is handled on another level, afaik.
361 2017-09-29T20:10:08 <esotericnonsense> argh.
362 2017-09-29T20:10:17 <esotericnonsense> the way you publish a message is to send a blob of data.
363 2017-09-29T20:10:44 <lxer> + a topic
364 2017-09-29T20:10:51 <esotericnonsense> you can send without a topic
365 2017-09-29T20:11:29 <esotericnonsense> (it's just that if you do that there is no topic! :P)
366 2017-09-29T20:11:59 <lxer> right, but the publisher (bitcoind) sends with topic 'rawtx'
367 2017-09-29T20:12:34 <esotericnonsense> yes, and it sends in the multipart manner
368 2017-09-29T20:12:58 <esotericnonsense> it could also send in one part, as "rawtx hash" instead of ["rawtx", "hash", "sequence"]
369 2017-09-29T20:13:07 <esotericnonsense> err, "rawtx hash sequence"
370 2017-09-29T20:13:22 <esotericnonsense> the sequence number is there so that you can detect dropped messages btw
371 2017-09-29T20:13:22 <lxer> then, if I create a subscriber socket.setsockopt(zmq.SUBSCRIBE, "rawtx") , I only get 'rawtx' messages. So, no need to send a message with 'rawtx' to announce it.
372 2017-09-29T20:13:55 <esotericnonsense> ????
373 2017-09-29T20:14:22 <esotericnonsense> the publisher has to announce the topic it's sending on, that is what sending on a topic is?
374 2017-09-29T20:14:41 <esotericnonsense> the first part of a multipart message, or the entire message if not multipart, is the topic
375 2017-09-29T20:16:09 <lxer> 'topic' and 'message' are different things
376 2017-09-29T20:16:27 <lxer> anyway.. i'm wanna get drunk and party :P
377 2017-09-29T20:17:34 <lxer> so, if I have time I'll make some example code. is python ok?
378 2017-09-29T20:17:46 <esotericnonsense> i have an example here, just a sec
379 2017-09-29T20:17:52 <esotericnonsense> it is fine, yes
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381 2017-09-29T20:19:45 <esotericnonsense> eh, can't get it to work in asyncio with one process.
382 2017-09-29T20:20:14 <esotericnonsense> basically, in python, make a subscriber to "TOPIC TOPIC". make a publisher that just does sock.send("TOPIC TOPIC PAYLOAD")
383 2017-09-29T20:20:22 <esotericnonsense> that's the non multipart way
384 2017-09-29T20:21:10 <esotericnonsense> alternatively you sock.send(["TOPIC TOPIC", "PAYLOAD"]), the client will get it by x = recv_multipart, x[0] will be the topic, x[1] the payload
385 2017-09-29T20:21:20 <esotericnonsense> err sock.send_multipart*
386 2017-09-29T20:21:33 <esotericnonsense> in both cases you're sending the topic, not sure what you're getting at :/
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388 2017-09-29T20:32:30 <lxer> ok.. I always used recv() and not recv_multipart . I think I get what you were saying now.
389 2017-09-29T20:33:07 <lxer> anyway.. beertiem.
390 2017-09-29T20:33:30 <esotericnonsense> got it working. https://0bin.net/paste/eUGjYXpOBpK05qao#qnrNNT3fXZS6KG5eu4dt85xvi3FutMXHqQqbnI531AK
391 2017-09-29T20:33:40 <esotericnonsense> have fun :)
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396 2017-09-29T20:35:47 <esotericnonsense> right. i see now. after playing with it.
397 2017-09-29T20:36:21 <esotericnonsense> if you send_multipart(['topic', 'payload']) and then recv, you will get two individual receive events of 'topic' and 'payload'.
398 2017-09-29T20:36:52 <esotericnonsense> now I will get food. :P
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420 2017-09-29T21:53:47 <lime_> Hey all, trying to compile a node on armv7l hf, getting an error saying G++-arm-linux-gnueabihf isn't installed
421 2017-09-29T21:54:05 <lime_> is it looking for a cross compiler?
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