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19 2017-12-21T01:06:11 <kamyl> is it feasible to mine BTC on a testnet with a decent CPU/GPU or am I better off asking for some BTC to test lightning network?
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27 2017-12-21T01:14:59 <echeveria> kamyl: post an address.
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29 2017-12-21T01:16:30 <kamyl> echeveria: thanks, I will once I sync, but I actually just learned that I need btcd node to test ln and it's probably offtopic here? I probably came with wrong assumption here, I'll read up a bit more about it.
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33 2017-12-21T01:17:54 <echeveria> kamyl: bitcoind doesn't need to be in sync to create an address. setting up a node would be off topic, but someone will provide you with tBTC if you post an address.
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37 2017-12-21T01:21:57 <kamyl> echeveria: thanks a lot for help, really appreciate it, I will do that once I get the actual VM working
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39 2017-12-21T01:26:58 <needcoinbase90> Hey guys. So, I want to float an idea for a BIP, unless I'm missing something. I proposed a CIP for Counterparty a few months back adding an optional fixed-size payment ID/memo to each transaction, that people could fill with data provided to them by an exchange.
40 2017-12-21T01:27:24 <needcoinbase90> This allows all their customers to deposit assets into the same exchange address, with customers differentiated by the memo
41 2017-12-21T01:27:44 <echeveria> why would you want this?
42 2017-12-21T01:28:07 <needcoinbase90> Exchanges need to have a different deposit address per-customer, and after the deposits enter the address, they need to be consolidated into a single one
43 2017-12-21T01:28:12 <needcoinbase90> let me find an example for you
44 2017-12-21T01:28:19 <echeveria> if you have a channel to give somebody an address, you already have a channel to pass memo information. the blockchain is for financial information that's relevant to everybody verifying it, a memo is not relevant.
45 2017-12-21T01:28:35 <needcoinbase90> https://xchain.io/address/1MBTXDNyYmj38NZbN1ogP1ktjN7TjAJLTJ
46 2017-12-21T01:28:51 <echeveria> there is no functional difference between many outputs at one P2PKH key, and many outputs at many P2PKH keys. you fundamentally misunderstand how the UTXO model works.
47 2017-12-21T01:28:56 <needcoinbase90> you see that to maintain a deposit address on an exchange, the exchange needs to perform two transactions for every deposit
48 2017-12-21T01:29:23 <needcoinbase90> one to move from the customer's individual deposit wallet into the exchange hot wallet
49 2017-12-21T01:29:31 <needcoinbase90> and one for the eventual withdrawal, when it comes
50 2017-12-21T01:30:04 <needcoinbase90> Adding a payment ID so that the consolidation tx isn't necessary I believe would reduce the amount of data overhead necessary for exchanges (and thus lower their fees)
51 2017-12-21T01:30:14 <echeveria> that's an inefficiency caused by poor design on the exchanges part, there's zero need to make multiple transactions, and reusing addresses does not in any way reduce the number or complexity of transactions.
52 2017-12-21T01:30:58 <echeveria> the blockchain doesn't know, differentiate, or care if an output is sent to a re-used address or a new one. they're identical as far as storage and transactional usage is concerned.
53 2017-12-21T01:31:15 <needcoinbase90> I'm not sure that thats the issue I'm describing
54 2017-12-21T01:31:40 <echeveria> yes, it is.
55 2017-12-21T01:32:03 <needcoinbase90> So, 5 customers deposit 1 coin each into their own individual deposit addresses. two sell, and one person buys 1.5.
56 2017-12-21T01:32:24 <needcoinbase90> You are saying the exchange can send from two different customer deposit addresses?
57 2017-12-21T01:32:30 <needcoinbase90> I guess that could work
58 2017-12-21T01:32:35 <needcoinbase90> I'll need to look at the size of that
59 2017-12-21T01:32:51 <needcoinbase90> xcp doesnt use a utxo model, so its a bit different
60 2017-12-21T01:32:55 <needcoinbase90> it just uses netting I believe
61 2017-12-21T01:32:55 <echeveria> yes. please read how the UTXO works, you're basing your conclusions on misunderstanding.
62 2017-12-21T01:33:00 <needcoinbase90> Thank you for your time.
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195 2017-12-21T05:40:31 <Caust1c> howdy! technical question for you: How does a full node verify the utxo that a private key has to spend? Can someone point me in the right direction for the technical documentation and/or code for this?
196 2017-12-21T05:41:04 <Caust1c> e.g. what's preventing me from creating a transaction which says "i'm sending N when I only have n" and broadcasting that to the network?
197 2017-12-21T05:41:55 <Caust1c> Surely the full nodes are aware of the balance corresponding to the public key, but do they keep that in memory or on disk somewhere? or do they have to generate it dynamically for each tx?
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199 2017-12-21T05:45:00 <Caust1c> think I found it: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/5d132e8b974652d96466a1b73ec1231614719fe2/src/validation.cpp
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206 2017-12-21T06:11:24 <echeveria> Caust1c: they verify the ECDSA signature, you can not forge a signature for a key you don't own.
207 2017-12-21T06:11:37 <echeveria> Caust1c: the UTXO is stored on disk in leveldb, a key value store.
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680 2017-12-21T06:34:03 <Caust1c> yep, I just read that with COutPoint and CoinEntry
681 2017-12-21T06:34:22 <Caust1c> thanks for the help echeveria !
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922 2017-12-21T08:06:18 <ren0v0> Hi, does bitcoin-qt have the payment protocol implemented that Bitpay requires?
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924 2017-12-21T08:08:19 <echeveria> ren0v0: yes, this is bip70. bip70 is not a quality protocol, however.
925 2017-12-21T08:08:49 <echeveria> it's essentially unused other than bitpay due to enormous complexity, huge number of code dependancies, and general poor utility.
926 2017-12-21T08:09:20 <ren0v0> any idea if its in this version v0.15.0.0-g3751912e8e ?
927 2017-12-21T08:09:31 <echeveria> it's been in there for years.
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929 2017-12-21T08:09:46 <ren0v0> Basically i sent a payment last night for an invoice, plenty of fees, 655 sat/B, and it didn't "clear" on the network like usual
930 2017-12-21T08:10:01 <echeveria> that's unrelated to bip70.
931 2017-12-21T08:10:11 <ren0v0> hmm, so this is ok? https://blog.bitpay.com/payment-protocol/
932 2017-12-21T08:10:19 <ren0v0> just that it was a recent post i thought it might be something new
933 2017-12-21T08:10:31 <echeveria> no, bip70 is very old and effectively abandoned.
934 2017-12-21T08:10:45 <ren0v0> so what is this they are talking about, and does -qt support it ?
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936 2017-12-21T08:11:07 <ren0v0> if i send something from bitpay wallet, it confirms instantly, all of the time
937 2017-12-21T08:11:09 <echeveria> < echeveria> it's been in there for years.
938 2017-12-21T08:11:33 <ren0v0> ok, so any ideas what i'm doing wrong then, because i have 3 invoices to pay and this refund just cost me $100
939 2017-12-21T08:12:01 <echeveria> this is a service question to take up with bitpay, not a development question.
940 2017-12-21T08:12:26 <ren0v0> maybe, maybe not
941 2017-12-21T08:12:36 <ren0v0> i made a payment in the same 10minute window from their wallet and it worked fine
942 2017-12-21T08:12:51 <echeveria> this is a question to take up with bitpay.
943 2017-12-21T08:13:06 <ren0v0> their wallet worked fine, -qt didn't, so how can they help me ?
944 2017-12-21T08:13:15 <ren0v0> what should i asked them if -qt guys need more info?
945 2017-12-21T08:14:14 <echeveria> there's no further way anybody but bitpay can help you. if they 'refunded' a payment, that's their behaviour not the wallets.
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991 2017-12-21T11:02:03 <JackH> ok too many people talking to me about fee's. what article do we have where both fee's + segwit + lightning + how it actually works is put together? anyone? I am fed up defending the fact that this is how the system is supposed to work
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995 2017-12-21T11:07:08 <JackH> in an easy explained way, the bitcoincore post about segwit benefit is too technical for people
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998 2017-12-21T11:12:18 <Sentineo> JackH: I find this on about lightning easily digestible ... can't address other components (fees, segwit) ... https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/the-lightning-network-elidhdicacs
999 2017-12-21T11:18:31 <JackH> hmm yes but I was hoping for a "all-in-one"
1000 2017-12-21T11:18:51 <JackH> why blockchain is slow, why segwit helps, why lightning is a payment layer, step by step
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1002 2017-12-21T11:19:07 <JackH> and I cant dump 100 articles on someone
1003 2017-12-21T11:19:27 <Sentineo> sure, in case you find one, let us know :P
1004 2017-12-21T11:19:38 <JackH> lol
1005 2017-12-21T11:19:51 <Sentineo> JackH: ask in #bitcoin as well, lot more users there, who do write such articles
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1022 2017-12-21T12:23:49 <DSidH> When creating a transaction by hand, how do I decide the scriptPubKey contents? Do I just look at the first byte of the pubKeyHash and decide that its either P2PKH or P2SH ?
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1031 2017-12-21T12:50:56 <wumpus> DSidH: yes, basically there's a mapping from address types to scriptPubKey script templates. See to_scriptpubkey in https://github.com/petertodd/python-bitcoinlib/blob/master/bitcoin/wallet.py#L149 for example.
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1036 2017-12-21T13:11:46 <DSidH> wumpus: ty. Needed validation from someone
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1062 2017-12-21T14:28:19 <jouke> anyone any idea why sendrawtransaction of https://pastebin.com/sGQzG7r6 this tx results in a: "64: too-long-mempool-chain" error message?
1063 2017-12-21T14:29:24 <jouke> One input is confirmed, other input only has an unconfirmed chain of 1 transaction long.
1064 2017-12-21T14:31:47 <jouke> Only blockcypher and blockexplorer are willing to accept the transaction: https://blockexplorer.com/tx/3e8039607e449d13832ae4687b8400239d0c3dc08bede61b88fe0e1b263f424b
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1067 2017-12-21T14:37:17 <cncr04s> core devs need to do something
1068 2017-12-21T14:37:33 <jouke> ancestorsize?
1069 2017-12-21T14:37:37 <cncr04s> can't do business if people can't send tx's
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1071 2017-12-21T14:48:56 <molz> cncr04s, offtopic, but that is up entirely to exchanges and users to "do something", not core devs, they have done their part
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1073 2017-12-21T14:58:27 <jouke> decendent size too big? (too many wallets spending unconfirmed transactions? :x)
1074 2017-12-21T15:02:17 <jb55> anyone have a list of these bitcoin script optimizations somewhere? or want to help out? https://github.com/jb55/btcs/issues/25
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1128 2017-12-21T17:27:10 <rocketmagnet> hi guys
1129 2017-12-21T17:27:51 <rocketmagnet> does someone understand the quandl api from https://blog.quandl.com/api-for-bitcoin-data ? i just want to get the btc in dollar for a certain date/time
1130 2017-12-21T17:28:27 <rocketmagnet> i would really be thankfull if someone can help me out here
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1132 2017-12-21T17:29:00 <rocketmagnet> i only found https://coinmarketcap.com/api/ that does it the easy way but they only show current data
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1211 2017-12-21T21:38:41 <cluelessperson> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0173.mediawiki
1212 2017-12-21T21:38:52 <cluelessperson> I don't get it, is introducing a new address format really necessary?
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1214 2017-12-21T21:41:09 <cluelessperson> So, I want to learn how bitcoin works, ground up
1215 2017-12-21T21:41:14 <cluelessperson> Should I just read all the BIPs in order?
1216 2017-12-21T21:51:18 <cluelessperson> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0008.mediawiki
1217 2017-12-21T21:51:23 <cluelessperson> "This document specifies an alteration to BIP9"
1218 2017-12-21T21:51:39 <cluelessperson> This is BIP8, how the hell does it refer to something that comes AFTER it?
1219 2017-12-21T21:51:41 <cluelessperson> that makes no sense
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1226 2017-12-21T22:24:15 <wumpus> cluelessperson: BIP numbers are not sequential
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1229 2017-12-21T22:24:48 <cluelessperson> wumpus: I guess I should ask, what offers a proper roadmap to learn all the technical details?
1230 2017-12-21T22:25:37 <wumpus> cluelessperson: would probably make sense to start with https://bitcoin.org/en/developer-documentation
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1232 2017-12-21T22:26:01 <cluelessperson> wumpus: thoughts on the "Mastering Bitcoin" Andreas book on github?
1233 2017-12-21T22:26:05 <wumpus> cluelessperson: and only then BIPs, if you encounter one that you want to know more about
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1235 2017-12-21T22:26:15 <wumpus> cluelessperson: I'd certainly not recommend reading all the BIPs
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1237 2017-12-21T22:27:04 <wumpus> cluelessperson: I've heard good things about that one too (never read it though)
1238 2017-12-21T22:27:32 <cluelessperson> wumpus: Got it. I'm developing a roadmap as I figure things out.
1239 2017-12-21T22:28:49 <wumpus> reading all BIPs would be the bitcoin equivalent of reading all RFCs to learn how the internet works :)
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1241 2017-12-21T22:35:25 <cluelessperson> wumpus: Thank you for your help
1242 2017-12-21T22:35:35 * cluelessperson doesn't understand why he feels overwhelmed
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1244 2017-12-21T22:41:24 <meshcollider> cluelessperson: I read mastering bitcoin a while back, it was very good from what I remember, so yep that's a good starting point
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1246 2017-12-21T22:47:52 <meshcollider> cluelessperson: there are maybe a few key BIPs to read but don't read them all at once lol. Maybe BIP32, 65, 112, 125, 141, 173
1247 2017-12-21T22:48:21 <cluelessperson> meshcollider: wumpus https://clueless.fun/blockchain/bitcoin/learning-bitcoin-1/
1248 2017-12-21T22:48:22 <cluelessperson> :)
1249 2017-12-21T22:48:31 <meshcollider> Just read others as necessary when you come across topics that you want to dive deeper into (e.g. compact blocks, bloom filters, etc)
1250 2017-12-21T22:49:23 <meshcollider> cluelessperson: nice :) could be a good resource for others to follow in your footsteps
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