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  3 2017-12-31T00:07:30  <phantomcircuit> SmashShock, a utxo can be spent a total of 1 time
  4 2017-12-31T00:07:38  <phantomcircuit> there's no balance
  5 2017-12-31T00:07:43  <phantomcircuit> simple yes or no
  6 2017-12-31T00:08:36  <SmashShock> How so? If a UTXO has a value of 25btc, and I only want to spend 10btc, how does this split?
  7 2017-12-31T00:08:45  <SmashShock> Legitimately curious. Haha
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 10 2017-12-31T00:10:56  <SmashShock> Or is a transaction spent in full, and there can be multiple outputs?
 11 2017-12-31T00:11:03  <SmashShock> Oh god, that's what it is, isn't it
 12 2017-12-31T00:11:57  <SmashShock> So the input is a UTXO, and the output is two UTXO's, one for the recipient, one for change?
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 17 2017-12-31T00:25:30  <SmashShock> Okay, well here's a hypothetical
 18 2017-12-31T00:25:56  <SmashShock> Would there be anything wrong with a system that has UTXO's that can be spent multiple times?
 19 2017-12-31T00:26:11  <SmashShock> And once they hit 0, they are pruned from the UTXO db
 20 2017-12-31T00:26:23  <SmashShock> (but are still in the BLOCKDB, of course)
 21 2017-12-31T00:26:40  <SmashShock> phantomcircuit:
 22 2017-12-31T00:27:27  <SmashShock> And then a client just keeps a list of the UTXOs that belong to them, and they can spend them accordingly
 23 2017-12-31T00:32:46  <phantomcircuit> SmashShock, you dont split, you spend the full 25 and then have an output which pays to yourself
 24 2017-12-31T00:33:09  <phantomcircuit> an unspent transaction output can be spent a total of 1 time
 25 2017-12-31T00:33:50  <phantomcircuit> SmashShock, there are privacy issues with a system like that as well as practical issues
 26 2017-12-31T00:34:05  <phantomcircuit> (not to say privacy isn't a practical issue, but you get what im saying i think)
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 28 2017-12-31T00:35:22  <SmashShock> Yeah, I suppose, if you don't have a system for multiple inputs, "coin chunks" can only get smaller, and eventually 25000000 coins in one transaction would become 25000000 different UTXOs
 29 2017-12-31T00:35:49  <phantomcircuit> SmashShock, but of course the system does allow for multiple inputs
 30 2017-12-31T00:35:54  <phantomcircuit> cause well
 31 2017-12-31T00:36:00  <phantomcircuit> otherwise things fail quite rapidly
 32 2017-12-31T00:37:00  <SmashShock> Hmm. Okay. I've been writing a cryptocurrency from the ground up, just to learn how they work https://github.com/ihatecsv/DrakeCoin
 33 2017-12-31T00:37:15  <SmashShock> Switching to that transaction model will take quite the rewrite. Haha
 34 2017-12-31T00:38:04  <SmashShock> But if it's necessary, I suppose I'll give it a shot!
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125 2017-12-31T08:03:08  <drTrololo> good morning
126 2017-12-31T08:06:14  <drTrololo> happy to be here. im grapfics designer, blockchain researcher, coder and my english not good.
127 2017-12-31T08:08:17  <drTrololo> how i can help and made something useful for bitcoin? which best step for noobie?
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294 2017-12-31T21:34:41  <parco> AndBobsYourUncle: eevblog fan?
295 2017-12-31T21:36:45  <parco> Is there any source of data on this earth that is truly random, while also being tamper resistant?
296 2017-12-31T21:37:03  <parco> and able to be verified globally
297 2017-12-31T21:42:01  <arubi> cosmic microwave background?
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301 2017-12-31T21:58:12  <parco> arubi: is that data available to everyone around the world
302 2017-12-31T21:58:33  <parco> and can't be forged/tampered with?
303 2017-12-31T22:00:01  <arubi> it's coming from the edge of the universe so it's pretty hard to mess with..  I was only half joking about using that :)
304 2017-12-31T22:00:30  <parco> i'm half serious about this idea
305 2017-12-31T22:01:08  <parco> is it possible to have a PoW algorithm, that takes a random salt, that would require a completely new ASIC every time that salt changes?
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307 2017-12-31T22:02:01  <arubi> not sure about that.  I don't really know what you're trying to solve
308 2017-12-31T22:02:31  <parco> Miner centralization
309 2017-12-31T22:02:48  <arubi> how would it help to have a convoluted mining algorithm?
310 2017-12-31T22:03:16  <arubi> isn't a very easy and straight forward algo is better?  one's that very cheap and easy to implement on asics
311 2017-12-31T22:03:42  <parco> it takes millions of dollars to spin up an ASIC chip for a specific algorithm. If that algorithm changes every blocks, it would discourage anybody from making ASICs
312 2017-12-31T22:04:06  <arubi> they'll just make an asic for all possible algorithms
313 2017-12-31T22:04:26  <parco> is that possible?
314 2017-12-31T22:04:33  <arubi> sure why not?
315 2017-12-31T22:04:40  <parco> All possible algo's are known?
316 2017-12-31T22:04:57  <arubi> can you program something unknown?  maybe I'm missing something
317 2017-12-31T22:05:21  <parco> if it was created from scratch, and agreed upon
318 2017-12-31T22:06:00  <arubi> parco, whatever you come up with, folks can build a chip that does the work
319 2017-12-31T22:06:42  <parco> you might be right, any laws that prove this so I can save some time
320 2017-12-31T22:07:05  <parco> I felt like a true source of randomness would be the savior here
321 2017-12-31T22:07:15  <arubi> randomness isn't the issue
322 2017-12-31T22:07:34  <arubi> the issue is that some mining corporations have an edge on other miners
323 2017-12-31T22:08:07  <arubi> so no matter what the algo is, centralization is better for small miners
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325 2017-12-31T22:09:55  <parco> I see. Do you know of any existing efforts being done to mitigate miner centralization?
326 2017-12-31T22:10:08  <parco> I feel it's a serious problem at the moment, do you agree?
327 2017-12-31T22:10:48  <arubi> I agree.  I don't know what can be done about it really
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