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 75 2018-02-14T05:57:48  <stoopkid> hi, is there any mechanism for trustless exchange between omni assets and btc that only uses standard btc transaction features?
 76 2018-02-14T06:05:09  <Dizzle> stoopkid: I doubt it
 77 2018-02-14T06:05:17  <Dizzle> but don't actually know
 78 2018-02-14T06:05:22  <windsok> I think Omni has a DEX http://omniexplorer.info/dex.aspx
 79 2018-02-14T06:06:46  <Dizzle> windsok: yea, but I think that's implemented in the Omni layer instead of the Bitcoin contracts alone
 80 2018-02-14T06:07:03  <windsok> but all Omni transactions are bitcoin transactions
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 82 2018-02-14T06:09:45  <windsok> http://omniexplorer.info/lookuptx.aspx?txid=6dcd8eedf2f01480833ecbeb7998c09d38faf708b8f9fe0af525165c3eafd094
 83 2018-02-14T06:09:46  <windsok> vs
 84 2018-02-14T06:09:54  <windsok> https://btc.com/6dcd8eedf2f01480833ecbeb7998c09d38faf708b8f9fe0af525165c3eafd094
 85 2018-02-14T06:10:05  <windsok> uses OP_RETURN
 86 2018-02-14T06:11:24  <stoopkid> how does the distributed exchange work i'm having trouble finding concrete technical info
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 88 2018-02-14T06:14:20  <windsok> I'm pretty sure it's the same or very similar to how counterparty works. They might have better docs https://counterparty.io/docs/
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 90 2018-02-14T06:14:56  <windsok> Note that the way both omni and counterparty are implemented does not really scale.
 91 2018-02-14T06:14:59  <gmaxwell> Today on the internets: people investing in altcoins by people too inept to setup their own p2p network. :P
 92 2018-02-14T06:17:33  <stoopkid> windsok: what i was originally thinking was that you should just be able to use a 2-of-2 multisig address between the counterparties with presigned "refund" tx's before they send their assets there to make sure they can still pull them out in case the exchange fails to go through
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 94 2018-02-14T06:18:40  <stoopkid> since it's just on the btc blockchain it should basically be like exchanging bitcoins for bitcoins, unless there happen to be any peculiar details of the omni protocol that get in the way of that
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 96 2018-02-14T06:19:20  <stoopkid> ideally it would be a scriptless script (to w/e extent omni could allow it) to minimize potential points of failure since i'm not really a security expert
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128 2018-02-14T09:08:47  <RainMan28> hey gmaxwell, saw your comment on reddit regarding bitpay and BIP70. Do you think their payment protocol is a bad idea?
129 2018-02-14T09:15:54  <stoopkid> anybody have any references on what goes in the data for omni class C tx's?
130 2018-02-14T09:18:09  <gmaxwell> RainMan28: well I've seen several people with long lists of complaints and shortcomings in BIP70, and pretty much none of them appear to be addresses except the send on one side thing. And at least in my brief glance at what they posted, they didn't answer the criticial questions that caused bip70 to have the always broadcast to the network design: things like how do you handle the case where the far
131 2018-02-14T09:18:15  <gmaxwell>  side never sends to the network, or how do you distinguish a cancellation vs a new payment.
132 2018-02-14T09:18:18  <gmaxwell> though I didn't look at it carefully.
133 2018-02-14T09:18:37  <gmaxwell> I also don't bother wasting my time on any bitcoin protocols that don't want to write a bip and take public comment, -- waste of time.
134 2018-02-14T09:20:01  <RainMan28> ah gotcha
135 2018-02-14T09:20:14  <gmaxwell> maybe it turns out fine, --- would be hard to be that much worse than BIP70 IMO. :)
136 2018-02-14T09:21:35  <RainMan28> Oh yeah, I definitely empathize with them having a need for it when the fees were really high. Having an ATM network, we experienced a lot of the same issues they were experiencing when customers would try to sell their BTC for cash. Sending the wrong amounts and then requiring refunds, and losing $30 in sending and $30 in getting a refund, etc, etc
137 2018-02-14T09:22:05  <gmaxwell> yes, indeed, though BIP70 just didn't do anything helpful there.
138 2018-02-14T09:22:46  <RainMan28> BIP70 was more about how to make a direct payment to their node vs having it be broadcast across the network?
139 2018-02-14T09:23:07  <gmaxwell> That is why they said they forced BIP70 but bip70 doesn't do that.
140 2018-02-14T09:23:07  <RainMan28> there are so many BIPs lately, it is hard to keep up
141 2018-02-14T09:23:27  <gmaxwell> Every BIP70 implementation that I'm aware of sends to the network.
142 2018-02-14T09:24:15  <gmaxwell> (There was a big argument between gavin and sipa when it was proposed, sipa and others wanting it to be specified to not send to the network;  but to do that you have to address how a bunch of corner cases are handled and gavin didn't want to deal with that.)
143 2018-02-14T09:24:40  <RainMan28> oh very interesting
144 2018-02-14T09:25:22  <gmaxwell> like what happens if the txn is never sent to the network? when do you return the txouts to the wallet?  What if the far side rejects it? How do you know this and know when you make a replacement to be sure to conflict the original?
145 2018-02-14T09:25:49  <gmaxwell> If the reason they'd reject it is fees, they probably should be able to communicate a minimum feerate in the request or you might loop forever. :P
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147 2018-02-14T09:34:35  <RainMan28> oh those are good points
148 2018-02-14T09:38:14  <Megumiin> Bitpay did relent and they now offer a non-payment protocol payment flow
149 2018-02-14T09:39:04  <Megumiin> But it looks like it might be limited to non-javascript enabled browsers
150 2018-02-14T09:40:05  <gmaxwell> Megumiin: oh thats great to hear, (first statement)
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156 2018-02-14T10:15:36  <stoopkid> hello, can anybody provide a reference on the data structure used in omni class C transactions?
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163 2018-02-14T10:40:29  <wumpus> Megumiin: awesome news? how do they limit it to non-javascript-enabled browsers?
164 2018-02-14T10:40:52  <Megumiin> <noscript> tags most likely
165 2018-02-14T10:41:03  <wumpus> in that case, blocking javascript for just the bitpay site will work
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168 2018-02-14T10:41:54  <Megumiin> not exactly userfriendly
169 2018-02-14T10:42:16  <wumpus> but better for privacy, I guess
170 2018-02-14T10:42:21  <gmaxwell> someone could publish a browser extension. :P
171 2018-02-14T10:42:27  <Megumiin> I assume they only added it because of their tor issues
172 2018-02-14T10:42:53  <Megumiin> can confirm it's noscript
173 2018-02-14T10:43:54  <wumpus> ah yes, instead of fixing the fetching of payment requests over tor
174 2018-02-14T10:44:02  <gmaxwell> pay-bitpay-bits
175 2018-02-14T10:45:15  <wumpus> not that the only problem was over tor, bitcoin wallet for android had trouble using/paying the payment requests from bitpay even over plainnet
176 2018-02-14T10:45:44  <Megumiin> but this doesn't change that for them
177 2018-02-14T10:45:46  <Megumiin> since they still run js
178 2018-02-14T10:45:58  <wumpus> right
179 2018-02-14T10:46:33  <wumpus> discoverability is an issue too - who thinks of disabling js, when they have a payment issue
180 2018-02-14T10:47:13  <wumpus> at least I would never have discovered that if it wasn't said here
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204 2018-02-14T13:01:10  <wumpus> I thought I was going to be able try it out, but the VPS provider has moved to coingate instead of bitpay
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215 2018-02-14T13:41:34  <wumpus> maybe next time I order pizza, if takeaway is still with bitpay
216 2018-02-14T13:43:14  <Megumiin> better order fast before bitpay bleeds all customers to alternatives
217 2018-02-14T13:48:58  <wumpus> heh
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355 2018-02-14T22:51:57  <Azelphur> So, trying to use bitcoinds rpc interface to generate an address, bitcoin-cli help seems to have no mention of getnewaddress (or anything like it), the docs say they exist, but on my installation, they don't. Has this functionality been removed? starting to wonder if the ArchLinux package has been messed with, or something.
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363 2018-02-14T23:43:48  <Azelphur> Figured it out, archlinux systemd script starts bitcoind with -disablewallet
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370 2018-02-14T23:56:26  <mlz> lol
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