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200 2018-04-17T18:07:06 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: looks like you should just merge https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/639 no?
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208 2018-04-17T18:22:37 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: "just merge" an insanely controversial PR?
209 2018-04-17T18:23:19 <BlueMatt> "insanely controversial"?
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211 2018-04-17T18:23:28 <BlueMatt> only voskull disagrees as far as I can see?
212 2018-04-17T18:23:55 <luke-jr> I might. Although I don't remember the outcome of the last discussion on the topic.
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214 2018-04-17T18:24:38 <BlueMatt> afaiu the outcome is "obviously not a 'hard fork', but if we want to have clearer definitions, that is a paralell task that can happen independently"
215 2018-04-17T18:24:46 <luke-jr> it's obviously not obvious
216 2018-04-17T18:24:48 <BlueMatt> I mean I think more nuanced definitions would be really good
217 2018-04-17T18:24:56 <BlueMatt> I think only evoskuil disagrees with that point?
218 2018-04-17T18:25:04 <BlueMatt> so, sorry, obvious to everyone else
219 2018-04-17T18:25:12 <luke-jr> insofar as it is a protocol change at all, it is clearly a hardfork
220 2018-04-17T18:25:31 <luke-jr> the only way it wouldn't be a hardfork, is if it isn't considered a protocol change
221 2018-04-17T18:25:35 <BlueMatt> I would take objection to the use of the word "fork" here
222 2018-04-17T18:25:52 <BlueMatt> so in other words it looks like we need to clarify our definitions
223 2018-04-17T18:26:03 <luke-jr> why?
224 2018-04-17T18:26:14 <luke-jr> there is no chain split for any protocol change, in ideal cirumstances
225 2018-04-17T18:26:19 <luke-jr> even BIP148 had no split
226 2018-04-17T18:26:20 <BlueMatt> if BIPs arent the place to put "informational documents describing code-level changes that are of interest to the broader community", where do they go?
227 2018-04-17T18:26:46 <BlueMatt> because it is highly realistic that BIP148/etc *could have had* a split
228 2018-04-17T18:26:49 <BlueMatt> even if they didnt
229 2018-04-17T18:27:12 <BlueMatt> in the BIP 90 case it is highly *unrealistic* that there could be a split, so I think everyone else was commenting that its really not a "fork"
230 2018-04-17T18:27:21 <BlueMatt> but, yes, I'd agree its really not a "protocol change"
231 2018-04-17T18:27:27 <BlueMatt> which I guess is my point eithter way
232 2018-04-17T18:27:37 <luke-jr> BIPs aren't the place for *implementation-specific* stuff in general; they're the place for stuff common to multiple software
233 2018-04-17T18:27:39 <BlueMatt> not sure where else to put such documents though, no?
234 2018-04-17T18:27:45 <luke-jr> bitcoin-core/docs?
235 2018-04-17T18:28:17 <luke-jr> oh, I think I remember the outcome of aforementioned discussion now: moving shortcuts like this to an appendix on the original BIP
236 2018-04-17T18:28:38 <BlueMatt> oh, that seems like a reasonably good idea
237 2018-04-17T18:28:44 <BlueMatt> can you comment on the bip pr, then?
238 2018-04-17T18:29:17 <luke-jr> yeah.. might be a bit, though, as I don't have my secure browser up yet
239 2018-04-17T18:29:39 <BlueMatt> thats....an oxymoron
240 2018-04-17T18:29:44 <BlueMatt> "secure browser"
241 2018-04-17T18:29:44 <BlueMatt> hmmm
242 2018-04-17T18:29:56 <luke-jr> well, I have my "secure" browser for stuff like GitHub, and my "social"
243 2018-04-17T18:30:01 <luke-jr> well, I have my "secure" browser for stuff like GitHub, and my "social" browser for everything else
244 2018-04-17T18:30:22 <luke-jr> the social browser was already setup for Xpra; the secure one, not so much
245 2018-04-17T18:30:27 <BlueMatt> yea, thats fair, though I still prefer the "no browser on my workstation/talos" approach :p
246 2018-04-17T18:30:36 <luke-jr> that's where I'm migrating to
247 2018-04-17T18:30:46 <luke-jr> enforced my Talos not supporting it :D
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259 2018-04-17T18:58:43 <sdaftuar> luke-jr: our disagreement appears to be over the definition of the term "hard fork". my position is that the BIP 123 definition is a bad one, and i'm trying to have it not apply to my BIP.
260 2018-04-17T18:59:08 <sdaftuar> if your position is that you get to decide what the definition is, then please just say so on the PR so we can stop wasting our time
261 2018-04-17T18:59:32 <sdaftuar> if there is some process, however, by which you'd consider that the BIP 123 definition in fact is a bad one, as i have been arguing, then tell me what that is
262 2018-04-17T18:59:58 <luke-jr> BIP 123 is Active, and became so without any objections; to amend it, there would need to be a new BIP
263 2018-04-17T19:01:03 <sdaftuar> ok, if you don't mind could you also please post that on the PR? i'm glad to know the answer, and we can put this to bed.
264 2018-04-17T19:01:07 <sdaftuar> thanks
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