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146 2018-05-31T12:27:34 <keymone> if i'm getting a message about corrupted db - can i tell bitcoind to reindex only last X blocks?
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221 2018-05-31T18:05:58 <SeaDiver> Hello.
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223 2018-05-31T18:06:33 <SeaDiver> Hello?
224 2018-05-31T18:07:05 <arubi> are you looking for any of your employees SeaDiver ?
225 2018-05-31T18:07:38 <SeaDiver> No
226 2018-05-31T18:07:43 <arubi> so why do you assume any of us would be on call?
227 2018-05-31T18:08:05 <SeaDiver> I thought this was a general development chat
228 2018-05-31T18:08:14 <arubi> it is
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230 2018-05-31T18:08:38 <SeaDiver> Apparently not
231 2018-05-31T18:08:48 <SeaDiver> Ghost town with rude users.
232 2018-05-31T18:08:48 <arubi> generally folks ask questions, sometimes they get answered. the trick is asking first
233 2018-05-31T18:08:53 <arubi> meh, alright
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236 2018-05-31T18:11:16 <SeaDiver> https://dev.visucore.com/bitcoin/doxygen/index.html contains no documentation on the files themselves only what method/function calls what.
237 2018-05-31T18:12:02 <SeaDiver> Nor what each function's use is.
238 2018-05-31T18:12:24 <SeaDiver> Only where it's defined and a caller graph.
239 2018-05-31T18:13:15 *** Krellan has joined #bitcoin-dev
240 2018-05-31T18:14:02 <SeaDiver> Anyone alive in this ghosttown?
241 2018-05-31T18:15:07 <arubi> keymone, not really.. you can issue a rescan from starting height to stop height, but not reindex. you should probably just let it go through everything by issuing -reindex to bitcoind
242 2018-05-31T18:15:23 <arubi> SeaDiver, you still haven't asked a question
243 2018-05-31T18:15:46 <keymone> arubi: takes awfully long on rpi :)
244 2018-05-31T18:16:10 <arubi> yea I can imagine, but not much you could do if it's corrupt :(
245 2018-05-31T18:17:28 <arubi> keymone, you can move the files to some pc with proper hardware, reindex there and all, then move the proper chain back to the pi
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249 2018-05-31T18:18:18 <arubi> so pretty much move everything under your datadir to a pc, fix the db, then move it all back. don't forget to backup the wallet file first
250 2018-05-31T18:18:42 <keymone> yeah, i'll probably do that
251 2018-05-31T18:18:44 <keymone> thanks
252 2018-05-31T18:18:48 <arubi> yw
253 2018-05-31T18:22:37 <SeaDiver> arubi: Is there an actual documentation on bitcoin core other than https://dev.visucore.com/bitcoin/doxygen/files.html?
254 2018-05-31T18:25:12 <arubi> SeaDiver, interesting stuff is documented within the code itself
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258 2018-05-31T18:28:09 <SeaDiver_> There are thousands of source files that have seemingly no relation.
259 2018-05-31T18:28:34 <buZz> whats a visucore
260 2018-05-31T18:28:48 <arubi> I don't know if thousands is right, but yes, there is no end to reading docs wrt bitcoin
261 2018-05-31T18:29:08 <buZz> i like https://bitcoin.org/en/developer-documentation
262 2018-05-31T18:29:14 <buZz> but no document is the end-all
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264 2018-05-31T18:29:42 <SeaDiver_> Thats not a documentation on the source code
265 2018-05-31T18:29:51 <SeaDiver_> Thats for things like interfacing with the rpc
266 2018-05-31T18:30:03 <SeaDiver_> And transaction semantics
267 2018-05-31T18:30:33 <buZz> i have no clue what you want to read
268 2018-05-31T18:30:38 <buZz> i'm just saying i like it ;)
269 2018-05-31T18:30:39 *** amenghra has quit IRC
270 2018-05-31T18:31:08 <SeaDiver_> Say I'm a c++ developer that wants to add a feature to bitcoin
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272 2018-05-31T18:31:25 <SeaDiver_> "look at the source" is hardly helpful as there are hundreds if not thousands of source files
273 2018-05-31T18:31:36 <buZz> ok, what feature?
274 2018-05-31T18:31:41 <SeaDiver_> I need a documentation on the source to understand what is doing what and where.
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276 2018-05-31T18:32:51 <SeaDiver_> feature does not matter
277 2018-05-31T18:32:54 <buZz> ok
278 2018-05-31T18:32:59 <buZz> then it doesnt matter, does it?
279 2018-05-31T18:33:04 <SeaDiver_> yes
280 2018-05-31T18:33:10 <SeaDiver_> I'm saying 'what feature' does not matter
281 2018-05-31T18:33:14 <SeaDiver_> it could be any feature
282 2018-05-31T18:33:24 <SeaDiver_> how would the common c++ developer know how to contribute to bitcoin
283 2018-05-31T18:33:25 <buZz> you cant go to a car and say 'i want to add something but nobody is telling me what each screw does'
284 2018-05-31T18:33:30 <SeaDiver_> if theres no documentation
285 2018-05-31T18:33:39 <buZz> they will just laugh at you and say you have no business doing car 'upgrades'
286 2018-05-31T18:34:00 <SeaDiver_> you're making a straw-man argument
287 2018-05-31T18:34:00 <buZz> no offense
288 2018-05-31T18:34:15 <SeaDiver_> that's nothing but a fallacy
289 2018-05-31T18:34:23 <buZz> no , i'm saying that the basis of adding a feature would depend on understanding all the workings of the features prior
290 2018-05-31T18:34:30 <SeaDiver_> right
291 2018-05-31T18:34:38 <buZz> so, read the code
292 2018-05-31T18:35:04 <buZz> and you can make a call graph yourself locally if you need
293 2018-05-31T18:35:07 <buZz> A call graph (also known as a call multigraph[1]) is a control flow graph,[2] which represents calling relationships between subroutines in a computer program. Each node represents a procedure and each edge (f, g) indicates that procedure f calls procedure g. Thus, a cycle in the graph indicates recursive procedure calls.
294 2018-05-31T18:35:12 <SeaDiver_> read the code, there are thousands of files some of which have 0 relation to eachother
295 2018-05-31T18:35:28 <buZz> yes, this is realworld code, nobody is going to hand explain each line :P
296 2018-05-31T18:35:57 <SeaDiver_> not even the lines, an explanation of what even each file is for is non existant
297 2018-05-31T18:36:00 <buZz> check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_graph , you can make visual learner representations of code with it, if you cant read the code
298 2018-05-31T18:36:20 <SeaDiver_> A call graph isn't much use at all
299 2018-05-31T18:36:33 <SeaDiver_> I can find that out by reading the code
300 2018-05-31T18:36:37 <buZz> it would show that there's relation between the files, which you claim there is none
301 2018-05-31T18:37:02 <SeaDiver_> there obviously is relation between the files lmao
302 2018-05-31T18:37:05 <buZz> fyi, there's whole mountains of 'how to fork bitcoin to your new alt' if thats your motivation
303 2018-05-31T18:37:13 <SeaDiver_> no lol
304 2018-05-31T18:37:17 <buZz> ok :) just saying
305 2018-05-31T18:37:45 <SeaDiver_> So you're telling me there is no documentation on bitcoin core other than generated call graphs?
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307 2018-05-31T18:38:13 <buZz> on each seperate function? lol no
308 2018-05-31T18:38:39 <SeaDiver_> of any kind
309 2018-05-31T18:38:52 <buZz> doxygen exists, its code driven documentation
310 2018-05-31T18:38:53 <SeaDiver_> even what each file or folder is for
311 2018-05-31T18:39:07 <buZz> there's whole mountains of discussion on all the code that went into bitcoin over last 10 years
312 2018-05-31T18:39:10 <buZz> check the ML
313 2018-05-31T18:39:14 <SeaDiver_> ML?
314 2018-05-31T18:39:30 <buZz> SeaDiver_: such documenation would only make sense if its a static code, its not, it changes a lot and often
315 2018-05-31T18:39:40 <buZz> non codedriven documentation is written by humans
316 2018-05-31T18:39:51 <buZz> humans dont have time to keep writing that stuff
317 2018-05-31T18:40:07 <buZz> ML = mailinglist
318 2018-05-31T18:40:13 <SeaDiver_> theres not even one per file though
319 2018-05-31T18:40:22 <buZz> where most new code first gets discussed -way- before a pull request
320 2018-05-31T18:40:36 <buZz> yes, because it changes often and fast
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322 2018-05-31T18:41:06 <SeaDiver_> doxygen only really shows code relation
323 2018-05-31T18:41:07 <SeaDiver_> nothing more
324 2018-05-31T18:41:26 <buZz> maybe just ask specific questions then ;)
325 2018-05-31T18:42:09 <buZz> http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html <----
326 2018-05-31T18:42:12 <buZz> ;)
327 2018-05-31T18:42:18 <arubi> +1 :)
328 2018-05-31T18:42:49 *** promag has joined #bitcoin-dev
329 2018-05-31T18:42:53 <arubi> that document, and the "XY problem" one are two of the best writeups on the net
330 2018-05-31T18:43:05 <buZz> i never found any knowledge around bitcoin's code or functioning in -any- way hard to find
331 2018-05-31T18:43:15 <buZz> once i verbally started to question for it
332 2018-05-31T18:43:48 <SeaDiver_> Alright.
333 2018-05-31T18:43:51 <SeaDiver_> First off then.
334 2018-05-31T18:43:55 <SeaDiver_> Whats this /test folder for?
335 2018-05-31T18:44:26 <buZz> ask a c++ developer about test-driven developement :)
336 2018-05-31T18:44:44 <SeaDiver_> What are you?
337 2018-05-31T18:44:46 <buZz> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development
338 2018-05-31T18:45:06 <buZz> if i had to pick a dev title it would be a perl developer
339 2018-05-31T18:45:12 <buZz> so nobody will ask me to code shit for them
340 2018-05-31T18:45:13 <buZz> \o/
341 2018-05-31T18:45:45 *** nodweber has quit IRC
342 2018-05-31T18:45:46 *** Langen has quit IRC
343 2018-05-31T18:45:46 <arubi> perl - the write-only language
344 2018-05-31T18:46:05 *** Langen has joined #bitcoin-dev
345 2018-05-31T18:46:16 <SeaDiver_> What is the bench folder for?
346 2018-05-31T18:46:30 <buZz> benchmarks
347 2018-05-31T18:46:48 <SeaDiver_> benchmarks as in statistics or load testing the bitcoin network or?
348 2018-05-31T18:47:08 <buZz> as in benchmarking performance of the code
349 2018-05-31T18:47:15 <buZz> to itself, not to network, i think?
350 2018-05-31T18:47:34 <SeaDiver_> What is compact for
351 2018-05-31T18:47:37 *** Randolf has quit IRC
352 2018-05-31T18:47:43 <SeaDiver_> looks like memory related things in here
353 2018-05-31T18:48:08 <buZz> hmhm memory usage affects performance greatly
354 2018-05-31T18:48:26 <SeaDiver_> right but what is /compact for?
355 2018-05-31T18:48:40 <arubi> SeaDiver_, imo you're trying to get into this completely the wrong way. did you ever try to send bitcoin somewhere?
356 2018-05-31T18:48:48 <buZz> SeaDiver_: please read
357 2018-05-31T18:48:55 <arubi> are you aware that there is a testnet, a network for testing out bitcoin?
358 2018-05-31T18:49:01 <buZz> its not /compact
359 2018-05-31T18:49:10 <SeaDiver_> lmao arubi very funny
360 2018-05-31T18:49:20 <arubi> I'm not trying to be funny
361 2018-05-31T18:49:21 <SeaDiver_> ah its compat buZz
362 2018-05-31T18:49:23 <SeaDiver_> didn't see that
363 2018-05-31T18:49:28 *** amenghra has joined #bitcoin-dev
364 2018-05-31T18:49:30 <buZz> right
365 2018-05-31T18:49:43 <SeaDiver_> is it for compatibility purposes cross platform?
366 2018-05-31T18:49:44 <buZz> arubi: i think he's mostly motivated by learning , but kinda weird method yeah
367 2018-05-31T18:49:51 <arubi> very weird
368 2018-05-31T18:49:55 <buZz> SeaDiver_: yes
369 2018-05-31T18:50:10 <buZz> like different C library versions etc
370 2018-05-31T18:50:18 <SeaDiver_> ah ok
371 2018-05-31T18:50:21 <buZz> SeaDiver_: did you work in programming prior?
372 2018-05-31T18:50:31 <arubi> I mean, I'm all for learning and more development, but trying to figure out bitcoin as if it's just another program is.. not going to end well
373 2018-05-31T18:50:38 <SeaDiver_> Over a decade, yes.
374 2018-05-31T18:50:42 <SeaDiver_> anyhow
375 2018-05-31T18:50:47 <buZz> SeaDiver_: nothing big then?
376 2018-05-31T18:51:11 <SeaDiver_> buZz: nothing big with this much lack of documentation
377 2018-05-31T18:51:29 <buZz> hehe yeah , commercial projects are quite different from FOSS developement
378 2018-05-31T18:51:38 <buZz> you're always welcome to write new documentation though
379 2018-05-31T18:51:39 <SeaDiver_> >_>
380 2018-05-31T18:51:45 <buZz> just remember , it'll be outdated soon
381 2018-05-31T18:51:52 <SeaDiver_> haha
382 2018-05-31T18:52:01 <buZz> :)
383 2018-05-31T18:52:12 <SeaDiver_> maybe if people updated docs per commit
384 2018-05-31T18:52:15 <SeaDiver_> wouldn't be a hassle
385 2018-05-31T18:52:19 <buZz> lol yr
386 2018-05-31T18:52:35 <buZz> lets spend double the time we do on development \o/
387 2018-05-31T18:52:52 <SeaDiver_> developers these days are lazy
388 2018-05-31T18:52:57 <SeaDiver_> anyways
389 2018-05-31T18:53:01 <buZz> you can pay them to be less lazy
390 2018-05-31T18:53:05 <buZz> just pay em x2
391 2018-05-31T18:53:37 <buZz> SeaDiver_: btw; you made a funny
392 2018-05-31T18:53:43 <buZz> 20:29:42 < SeaDiver_> Thats not a documentation on the source code
393 2018-05-31T18:53:45 <buZz> 20:52:52 < SeaDiver_> developers these days are lazy
394 2018-05-31T18:53:47 <buZz> :D :D
395 2018-05-31T18:53:55 <SeaDiver_> ?
396 2018-05-31T18:54:02 <buZz> you just called yourself lazy ;)
397 2018-05-31T18:54:10 <SeaDiver_> in what manner?
398 2018-05-31T18:54:28 <buZz> in unwillingness to read all code , but demanding to 'know it all , right nao'
399 2018-05-31T18:54:31 <buZz> :D
400 2018-05-31T18:54:45 <SeaDiver_> Its unplausible to go through hundreds of thousands of lines of code
401 2018-05-31T18:55:08 <SeaDiver_> implausible*
402 2018-05-31T18:55:09 <buZz> its equally unplausible you're going to 'add features' without knowing the code by heart prior
403 2018-05-31T18:55:14 <buZz> so , thats equal terms
404 2018-05-31T18:55:31 <arubi> knowing "how bitcoin works
405 2018-05-31T18:55:39 <arubi> is not an easy thing to document
406 2018-05-31T18:55:41 <buZz> well yeh, bare minimum
407 2018-05-31T18:56:06 <SeaDiver_> Says you guys, I have a quite different opinion.
408 2018-05-31T18:56:09 <arubi> best thing is just to experiment with it, try to break it, see how you fail, see what annoys you, and fix it
409 2018-05-31T18:56:51 <SeaDiver_> What is /policy for?
410 2018-05-31T18:57:54 <SeaDiver_> You guys have a bottom up approach, I have a top down one.
411 2018-05-31T18:57:58 <SeaDiver_> Much more efficient.
412 2018-05-31T18:58:02 <arubi> it's hard to explain policy without context for what consensus is, then what soft forks are
413 2018-05-31T18:58:12 <buZz> SeaDiver_: nobody likes managers
414 2018-05-31T18:58:13 <arubi> policy is pretty much the strongest of the three
415 2018-05-31T18:58:28 <SeaDiver_> I have a general understanding of both arubi
416 2018-05-31T18:58:43 <arubi> well, policy is the most constricting
417 2018-05-31T18:59:09 <SeaDiver_> how do you mean?
418 2018-05-31T18:59:31 <SeaDiver_> What qualifies as a block or transaction or?
419 2018-05-31T18:59:35 <buZz> as in, rejecting bad/unwanted transactions
420 2018-05-31T18:59:43 <buZz> or blocks i guess?
421 2018-05-31T18:59:44 <buZz> hmm
422 2018-05-31T18:59:46 <arubi> no, what qualifies as a transaction that gets relayed
423 2018-05-31T19:00:10 <SeaDiver_> Looks like its mostly based on transaction fees
424 2018-05-31T19:00:31 <arubi> not only, standard-ness wrt script is important too
425 2018-05-31T19:01:06 <SeaDiver_> So it makes sure transactions are up to par with standards?
426 2018-05-31T19:01:24 <arubi> not with standards, but with policy which is more constricting
427 2018-05-31T19:01:52 <buZz> some policies are per-node even i think? like mintxrelay etc
428 2018-05-31T19:01:57 <arubi> yep
429 2018-05-31T19:02:33 <SeaDiver_> so policy is restriction check on how transactions get be formed and relayed
430 2018-05-31T19:03:17 <arubi> it's mostly about acceptance to the node's mempool. if it gets accepted, it will probably get relayed by that node, but again not all nodes will agree on the same policy
431 2018-05-31T19:03:18 *** Langen has quit IRC
432 2018-05-31T19:03:47 *** Langen has joined #bitcoin-dev
433 2018-05-31T19:03:49 <buZz> SeaDiver_:
434 2018-05-31T19:03:54 <buZz> SeaDiver_: 'the ML' btw is ; https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
435 2018-05-31T19:03:56 <arubi> but all nodes will agree on consensus, so once a tx is in a block, policy doesn't matter
436 2018-05-31T19:04:01 <arubi> (if the block is valid)
437 2018-05-31T19:04:13 <SeaDiver_> So policy dictates what transactions get added to a node's mempool?
438 2018-05-31T19:04:22 <SeaDiver_> Thanks for the bl buzz
439 2018-05-31T19:04:22 <arubi> yes
440 2018-05-31T19:04:25 <SeaDiver_> ml*
441 2018-05-31T19:04:41 <SeaDiver_> Buzz said before something about relaying iirc arubi ?
442 2018-05-31T19:04:55 <SeaDiver_> Is it only local mempool or relaying to other nodes as well
443 2018-05-31T19:04:58 <buZz> yeah nothing outside of a node's mempool gets relayed
444 2018-05-31T19:05:04 <buZz> mempool is always only local
445 2018-05-31T19:05:08 <arubi> if it gets in your mempool, you'll probably be relaying it
446 2018-05-31T19:05:18 <arubi> but your peers might not accept it to their own mempool
447 2018-05-31T19:05:24 <arubi> so they might won't relay it further
448 2018-05-31T19:06:35 <SeaDiver_> ah so if your policy allows a transaction into your mempool; when you relay it; another node's policy may block it from being accetped into it's mempool?
449 2018-05-31T19:06:45 <arubi> yes
450 2018-05-31T19:06:58 <SeaDiver_> <3 arbui
451 2018-05-31T19:06:58 <arubi> that's what mintxfee for example is about, like buZz said
452 2018-05-31T19:07:42 <SeaDiver_> oh that would make sense for massive miners
453 2018-05-31T19:07:54 <SeaDiver_> having their nodes only accept transaction with x fee or higher
454 2018-05-31T19:08:04 <arubi> also anti DoS. nobody wants a billion 0 fee txs in their mempool
455 2018-05-31T19:08:09 <SeaDiver_> and it would help the network from being dossed with 0
456 2018-05-31T19:08:10 <SeaDiver_> yep
457 2018-05-31T19:08:13 <SeaDiver_> you typed it faster ;(
458 2018-05-31T19:08:17 <buZz> most nodes arent run by miners
459 2018-05-31T19:08:35 <SeaDiver_> awesome.
460 2018-05-31T19:08:41 <buZz> this isnt BCH :P
461 2018-05-31T19:08:45 <arubi> :)
462 2018-05-31T19:08:47 <SeaDiver_> LOL
463 2018-05-31T19:09:37 <SeaDiver_> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/master/src/interfaces
464 2018-05-31T19:09:43 <SeaDiver_> some of the interfaces are 404ing
465 2018-05-31T19:09:51 <SeaDiver_> removed and readme not updated?
466 2018-05-31T19:10:01 <buZz> some of what?
467 2018-05-31T19:10:06 <buZz> the files are right there
468 2018-05-31T19:10:17 <SeaDiver_> Talking about the read me
469 2018-05-31T19:10:33 <buZz> the readme is also right there?
470 2018-05-31T19:10:39 <SeaDiver_> Right.
471 2018-05-31T19:10:40 <buZz> you're talking about the -links- inside the readme?
472 2018-05-31T19:10:45 <SeaDiver_> yes haha
473 2018-05-31T19:11:00 <buZz> maybe some functions moved to other files, and be more eloquent in stating whats troubling you
474 2018-05-31T19:11:30 <SeaDiver_> gotcha
475 2018-05-31T19:11:40 <SeaDiver_> so its just lack of readme updating?
476 2018-05-31T19:11:55 <buZz> probably , you're welcome to update it though
477 2018-05-31T19:12:08 <SeaDiver_> no idea where those things are at or I would instantly
478 2018-05-31T19:12:37 <SeaDiver_> If something like that is moved why would they not update such things
479 2018-05-31T19:12:38 <buZz> i bet 'init' got renamed and moved
480 2018-05-31T19:12:44 <buZz> that name is way too general
481 2018-05-31T19:13:10 <buZz> SeaDiver_: maybe because its a billion dollar network that needs to function well, and not a educational project ;)
482 2018-05-31T19:13:18 * arubi remembers back when we had main.cpp
483 2018-05-31T19:13:29 <buZz> lol, that -endlessly- long main.cpp :D
484 2018-05-31T19:13:43 <buZz> what third ring of hell that was :P
485 2018-05-31T19:13:47 <SeaDiver_> a billion dollar network should be more up to date than an average c++ proj
486 2018-05-31T19:13:52 <SeaDiver_> smh
487 2018-05-31T19:13:53 <arubi> :D now it's almost all become validation.cpp but yea, an endless scroll
488 2018-05-31T19:13:56 <SeaDiver_> especially doc wise
489 2018-05-31T19:14:07 <SeaDiver_> validation.cpp sounds fun
490 2018-05-31T19:14:12 <arubi> really, lots of the code is well documented
491 2018-05-31T19:14:12 *** promag has quit IRC
492 2018-05-31T19:14:14 <buZz> SeaDiver_: cool, post me where this documentation for linux is
493 2018-05-31T19:14:23 <SeaDiver_> buZz: man pages
494 2018-05-31T19:14:24 <arubi> but you actually have to view the source code files to see it
495 2018-05-31T19:14:26 <SeaDiver_> :>>>.
496 2018-05-31T19:14:28 <buZz> SeaDiver_: HAHAHAHAHA
497 2018-05-31T19:14:33 <SeaDiver_> am joking
498 2018-05-31T19:14:35 <buZz> you're delusional or trolling
499 2018-05-31T19:15:01 <buZz> if you talk about 'average c++ project' what do you mean then
500 2018-05-31T19:15:03 <buZz> kicad?
501 2018-05-31T19:15:08 <buZz> not linux, clearly
502 2018-05-31T19:15:11 <SeaDiver_> Saying someone else didn't do it doesn't vindicate you not doing something.
503 2018-05-31T19:15:14 <buZz> inkscape?
504 2018-05-31T19:15:15 <SeaDiver_> lol
505 2018-05-31T19:15:18 <buZz> gimp?
506 2018-05-31T19:15:23 <buZz> no seriously, tell me
507 2018-05-31T19:15:40 <SeaDiver_> I have no examples off the top of my head
508 2018-05-31T19:15:40 <buZz> whats this magically well documented foss c++ project you talk about
509 2018-05-31T19:15:58 <buZz> ok, what was the last c++ project you looked at with good documentation then
510 2018-05-31T19:16:38 <SeaDiver_> I'm not a c++ dev lmao
511 2018-05-31T19:16:55 <buZz> ok, so your basing on your assumption of a sample size of zero
512 2018-05-31T19:17:01 *** retrop99 has joined #bitcoin-dev
513 2018-05-31T19:17:03 <buZz> on*
514 2018-05-31T19:17:10 <SeaDiver_> language shouldn't matter
515 2018-05-31T19:17:27 <SeaDiver_> maintaining a code base of such massive size should always be heavily documented
516 2018-05-31T19:17:32 <SeaDiver_> always
517 2018-05-31T19:17:34 <buZz> ok, what was any project in any language you most recently looked at where they explained each file and each function to you?
518 2018-05-31T19:19:35 <buZz> not saying it doesnt exist, but i sure havent seen any
519 2018-05-31T19:20:03 <buZz> and your amazement at bitcoin's lack there, suggests you have loads of experience with projects that -do- have it, right?
520 2018-05-31T19:20:28 <SeaDiver_> defensive?
521 2018-05-31T19:20:50 <buZz> i'm just curious to what you're comparing bitcoin
522 2018-05-31T19:21:13 <SeaDiver_> look at any language documentation to see more of what I'm expecting
523 2018-05-31T19:21:32 <buZz> you expect bitcoin's source documentation to match GCC's documentation? :O
524 2018-05-31T19:21:39 <SeaDiver_> yerp
525 2018-05-31T19:21:44 <buZz> holy
526 2018-05-31T19:21:52 <buZz> SeaDiver_: well you better start writing then :D
527 2018-05-31T19:22:00 <SeaDiver_> LOL
528 2018-05-31T19:22:07 <buZz> ^_^
529 2018-05-31T19:22:14 <buZz> and i'm not defensive, its not my code :P
530 2018-05-31T19:22:21 <buZz> ~i'm a innocent bystander
531 2018-05-31T19:25:01 <SeaDiver_> ah
532 2018-05-31T19:25:01 *** Langen has quit IRC
533 2018-05-31T19:25:06 <SeaDiver_> rather a fan of the ISO myself
534 2018-05-31T19:25:13 <buZz> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-8.1.0/gcc.pdf <-- lol
535 2018-05-31T19:25:17 <SeaDiver_> yes
536 2018-05-31T19:25:20 <SeaDiver_> I bave a copy
537 2018-05-31T19:25:22 <buZz> 958 pages :D
538 2018-05-31T19:25:27 <SeaDiver_> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2017/n4713.pdf
539 2018-05-31T19:25:29 <SeaDiver_> something like this
540 2018-05-31T19:25:29 *** Langen has joined #bitcoin-dev
541 2018-05-31T19:25:30 <SeaDiver_> also really nice
542 2018-05-31T19:25:45 *** Alyoshka has joined #bitcoin-dev
543 2018-05-31T19:26:01 <buZz> yeah awesome for students
544 2018-05-31T19:26:08 <buZz> not really useful for doing actual work
545 2018-05-31T19:26:50 <SeaDiver_> 4 General principles [intro] 4.1 Implementation compliance [intro.compliance]
546 2018-05-31T19:26:54 <SeaDiver_> just beautiful
547 2018-05-31T19:27:02 <SeaDiver_> anyway back on track
548 2018-05-31T19:27:21 <SeaDiver_> what is this /primitives for?
549 2018-05-31T19:27:40 <SeaDiver_> depreciated block and transaction type or what
550 2018-05-31T19:28:13 <buZz> when is your report due?
551 2018-05-31T19:28:22 <SeaDiver_> haha
552 2018-05-31T19:28:39 <SeaDiver_> are these used for building blocks and transactions?
553 2018-05-31T19:28:48 *** ongolaBoy has quit IRC
554 2018-05-31T19:29:10 *** Krellan has quit IRC
555 2018-05-31T19:29:37 <SeaDiver_> buZz: ?
556 2018-05-31T19:29:37 <buZz> dataformats etc
557 2018-05-31T19:29:45 <buZz> is all i see in there
558 2018-05-31T19:29:51 <buZz> you have the files right there
559 2018-05-31T19:29:53 <buZz> just read em :)
560 2018-05-31T19:29:53 <SeaDiver_> so they're used in the actual implementation
561 2018-05-31T19:30:23 <buZz> yes not in the fake one
562 2018-05-31T19:30:35 <SeaDiver_> well you have /test lmao
563 2018-05-31T19:30:40 <SeaDiver_> that's not used when compiling bitcoin core
564 2018-05-31T19:30:47 <buZz> which tests the actual implementation, yes
565 2018-05-31T19:30:52 <buZz> yes it is
566 2018-05-31T19:31:00 <buZz> all bitcoin compilations run all the tests
567 2018-05-31T19:31:11 <buZz> unless specifically disabled, but thats highly inadviced
568 2018-05-31T19:31:45 <SeaDiver_> so tests checks things before compiling?
569 2018-05-31T19:31:48 <buZz> you never compiled bitcoin?
570 2018-05-31T19:31:54 <SeaDiver_> ofc I have
571 2018-05-31T19:31:55 <buZz> after compiling
572 2018-05-31T19:32:01 <buZz> then you know it runs tests
573 2018-05-31T19:32:05 <buZz> because you love to read
574 2018-05-31T19:32:12 <SeaDiver_> ah ok
575 2018-05-31T19:32:12 <buZz> thus , read the output of compilation, right?
576 2018-05-31T19:32:31 <SeaDiver_> output is a bin?
577 2018-05-31T19:32:36 <buZz> lol
578 2018-05-31T19:32:37 <SeaDiver_> you compile, you get a bin?
579 2018-05-31T19:32:42 <buZz> ok , so you didnt compile bitcoin
580 2018-05-31T19:32:47 <buZz> its fine, dont lie :P
581 2018-05-31T19:32:56 <SeaDiver_> I've compiled bitcoin core lmao
582 2018-05-31T19:33:05 <SeaDiver_> got bitcoitd and bitcoinqt
583 2018-05-31T19:33:06 <buZz> it outputs MOUNTAINS of text
584 2018-05-31T19:33:13 <buZz> -during- compilation
585 2018-05-31T19:33:14 <SeaDiver_> during compilation
586 2018-05-31T19:33:18 <SeaDiver_> ^
587 2018-05-31T19:33:22 <buZz> yes, which you read
588 2018-05-31T19:33:22 <buZz> right?
589 2018-05-31T19:33:27 <SeaDiver_> LOL
590 2018-05-31T19:33:28 <SeaDiver_> no
591 2018-05-31T19:33:34 <buZz> why not?
592 2018-05-31T19:33:39 <SeaDiver_> mostly just checks and what not
593 2018-05-31T19:33:43 <SeaDiver_> if theres an error it'll stop
594 2018-05-31T19:33:45 <SeaDiver_> and ill read that
595 2018-05-31T19:33:51 <SeaDiver_> thats all /tests?
596 2018-05-31T19:33:58 <buZz> you want to know what the code does, and what its for, but dont read the output of compiler
597 2018-05-31T19:34:05 <buZz> its just really weird dude
598 2018-05-31T19:34:27 <buZz> and you dont want to fork , and 'haha' my when report is due question , and 'am not a C++ dev'
599 2018-05-31T19:34:30 <buZz> so, what are you doing
600 2018-05-31T19:34:59 <SeaDiver_> learning, you?
601 2018-05-31T19:35:02 <bugs_> trolling without mom's permission again
602 2018-05-31T19:35:03 <buZz> be to the point, i'm not gonna hold your hand while you tippy toe through magic code land
603 2018-05-31T19:35:19 <buZz> SeaDiver_: whats the -endgoal-
604 2018-05-31T19:35:38 <buZz> you learn ALL THE SKILL, and then? what will you do with it
605 2018-05-31T19:36:03 <SeaDiver_> modify the code
606 2018-05-31T19:36:05 <SeaDiver_> ?
607 2018-05-31T19:36:15 <SeaDiver_> or just know
608 2018-05-31T19:36:18 <SeaDiver_> nice to know
609 2018-05-31T19:36:26 <SeaDiver_> but probably modify the code
610 2018-05-31T19:36:35 <buZz> echo 'it does stuff' > THISISWHATEACHCODELINEDOES
611 2018-05-31T19:36:42 <buZz> done
612 2018-05-31T19:36:46 <buZz> :)
613 2018-05-31T19:37:26 <SeaDiver_> say I wanted to add multi threaded leveldb loading because I notice it was currently loading using a single thread
614 2018-05-31T19:37:41 <SeaDiver_> how in the world would I know where to find where leveldb loading is implemented
615 2018-05-31T19:37:56 <SeaDiver_> ?
616 2018-05-31T19:37:56 <SeaDiver_> with all these random files and folders vaguely names and thrown together
617 2018-05-31T19:38:06 <buZz> ctrl-f leveldb
618 2018-05-31T19:38:37 <buZz> SeaDiver_: maybe first learn to code, then learn to read bitcoin's code?
619 2018-05-31T19:38:59 <SeaDiver_> thats completely implausible
620 2018-05-31T19:39:21 <SeaDiver_> you're really set on that bottom up approach
621 2018-05-31T19:39:38 <buZz> you think all bitcoin devs just jumped right into it by reading code and then 'modifying some stuff here and there'
622 2018-05-31T19:39:41 <buZz> ?
623 2018-05-31T19:39:52 <buZz> 'i dno what this C++ stuff is , but this is fun!'
624 2018-05-31T19:39:53 <buZz> :)
625 2018-05-31T19:39:57 <SeaDiver_> LLO
626 2018-05-31T19:40:18 <buZz> not like half the higher up committers to bitcoin ever went to school or something ;)
627 2018-05-31T19:40:21 <SeaDiver_> I'm saying you need at least a general understanding before you go code digging and modifying things
628 2018-05-31T19:40:39 <buZz> yes, of -BOTH- the language -and- the preexisting code
629 2018-05-31T19:40:47 <SeaDiver_> You can't just say, "code is there go read it" to learn about it.
630 2018-05-31T19:41:02 <SeaDiver_> completely implausible
631 2018-05-31T19:41:07 <buZz> if that second interpretation for you requires a pre-chewed document to handhold you through all of it, you're not a valued contributer
632 2018-05-31T19:41:12 <buZz> and that IS reality
633 2018-05-31T19:42:26 <SeaDiver_> you are bottom up and I'm top down, we each have our reasons, why argue about it?
634 2018-05-31T19:42:39 <buZz> because all managers are pointless
635 2018-05-31T19:42:54 <buZz> its what you become when you suck so much at your job that you cant produce anything
636 2018-05-31T19:43:08 <SeaDiver_> um ok
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640 2018-05-31T19:45:29 <SeaDiver_> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/index/txindex.h
641 2018-05-31T19:45:36 <SeaDiver_> See
642 2018-05-31T19:46:27 <SeaDiver_> look at that nice commenting
643 2018-05-31T19:48:00 <buZz> wow you opened a sourcefile
644 2018-05-31T19:48:04 <buZz> now do all the others
645 2018-05-31T19:48:07 <buZz> and read
646 2018-05-31T19:48:14 <SeaDiver_> no look at the documentation inside
647 2018-05-31T19:48:28 <buZz> no, i'm not you
648 2018-05-31T19:48:48 <SeaDiver_> That type of documentation
649 2018-05-31T19:48:50 <SeaDiver_> should be in every file
650 2018-05-31T19:48:55 <buZz> do it then
651 2018-05-31T19:49:40 <SeaDiver_> I can't I need to know it before I can write it or I would.
652 2018-05-31T19:50:13 <buZz> also, odds your documenation would be valid are low, as you dont know C++
653 2018-05-31T19:50:33 <buZz> nor even want to learn C++ :)
654 2018-05-31T19:50:43 <SeaDiver_> https://github.com/google/leveldb/blob/master/doc/index.md
655 2018-05-31T19:50:49 <SeaDiver_> see heres a documentation on leveldb
656 2018-05-31T19:50:55 <SeaDiver_> you asked for an example
657 2018-05-31T19:50:58 <SeaDiver_> theres a rather nice one
658 2018-05-31T19:51:01 <buZz> i'm glad you are helping yourself
659 2018-05-31T19:51:16 <buZz> now repeat that for a month , then maybe you'll figure it out :)
660 2018-05-31T19:51:27 <SeaDiver_> I cant repeat that for a month
661 2018-05-31T19:51:34 <buZz> ah, report due prior?
662 2018-05-31T19:51:41 <SeaDiver_> the leveldb is a good example of having a good documentation
663 2018-05-31T19:51:49 <SeaDiver_> each bitcoin folder does not have such documentation
664 2018-05-31T19:51:56 <buZz> yes, cool story
665 2018-05-31T19:51:56 <SeaDiver_> which is the problem
666 2018-05-31T19:52:03 <buZz> a problem you can fix
667 2018-05-31T19:52:08 <buZz> and seem highly motivated to fix
668 2018-05-31T19:52:10 <buZz> so , have at it
669 2018-05-31T19:52:13 <SeaDiver_> no I cannot
670 2018-05-31T19:52:18 <buZz> yes you can
671 2018-05-31T19:52:31 <SeaDiver_> I cannot write what I don't know?
672 2018-05-31T19:52:37 <buZz> can you read?
673 2018-05-31T19:52:45 <SeaDiver_> read what, the code?
674 2018-05-31T19:52:46 <buZz> then you'll get far
675 2018-05-31T19:52:52 <SeaDiver_> implausible
676 2018-05-31T19:53:13 <SeaDiver_> When you write code you have to document it
677 2018-05-31T19:53:14 <buZz> ah, you dont believe in yourself, thats a different problem then
678 2018-05-31T19:53:19 <buZz> says who?
679 2018-05-31T19:53:24 <SeaDiver_> -__-
680 2018-05-31T19:55:16 <buZz> your teachers? :D
681 2018-05-31T19:55:36 <SeaDiver_> Says any competent developer.
682 2018-05-31T19:55:56 <buZz> you're calling me incompetent? :D
683 2018-05-31T19:56:18 <buZz> where is your github account SeaDiver_ ? :P
684 2018-05-31T19:56:26 <buZz> i'd love to see your documentation on your own code
685 2018-05-31T19:56:38 <SeaDiver_> Quite sassy you are.
686 2018-05-31T19:56:50 <buZz> i know :)
687 2018-05-31T19:57:03 <buZz> lemme answer it for you < SeaDiver_> i dont have a github account
688 2018-05-31T19:57:29 <SeaDiver_> I'm sorry if you don't feel the need to document your code since you're the only one who ever sees it and you'll never forget anything in there.
689 2018-05-31T19:57:52 <buZz> you're sorry my brain has memory? ok, thanks?
690 2018-05-31T19:58:08 <SeaDiver_> I have a github account I just have no interest of getting into a pissing match with you
691 2018-05-31T19:58:30 <buZz> cause it has no documentation ;) right?
692 2018-05-31T19:58:46 <buZz> you could just say 'i'm not a competent developer' :P
693 2018-05-31T19:58:55 <SeaDiver_> your ideology is clearly flawed and you appear to love instigating
694 2018-05-31T19:59:07 <buZz> thanks :)
695 2018-05-31T19:59:24 <SeaDiver_> you can be the most competent developer
696 2018-05-31T19:59:32 <SeaDiver_> but its incredibly bad practice to not document your code
697 2018-05-31T19:59:58 <buZz> you just linked to bitcoin's sourcecode for an example of good documentation
698 2018-05-31T20:00:01 <buZz> so, yeah .. :P
699 2018-05-31T20:00:10 <SeaDiver_> right in one folder
700 2018-05-31T20:00:17 <SeaDiver_> now how about every other folder
701 2018-05-31T20:00:19 <SeaDiver_> where its not there
702 2018-05-31T20:00:28 <buZz> well sucks to be you i guess :D
703 2018-05-31T20:00:32 <SeaDiver_> LOL
704 2018-05-31T20:00:41 <buZz> gee , wonder what isDust() does
705 2018-05-31T20:00:49 <buZz> WHY IS THERE NO DOCUMENTATION FOR THIS
706 2018-05-31T20:00:53 * buZz outraged
707 2018-05-31T20:01:03 *** nachdenklich has joined #bitcoin-dev
708 2018-05-31T20:01:36 <SeaDiver_> quite a euphemism
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722 2018-05-31T20:18:41 <buZz> well, that was entertaining :P
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727 2018-05-31T20:28:18 <arubi> lol
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730 2018-05-31T20:31:35 <buZz> i'm not sure what his actual motive was
731 2018-05-31T20:31:46 <buZz> i think i hit a soft spot when i asked when his report was due
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734 2018-05-31T20:35:25 <molz> buZz, u bad boy, you destroyed his dream to fork bitcoin!
735 2018-05-31T20:35:54 <buZz> gee, i hope so molz !
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743 2018-05-31T20:45:33 <molz> :D
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